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Microsoft unveils Windows 8 tablet effort with Samsung prototype - Page 6

post #201 of 209
9/15/11 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

MS has basically hung out a welcome sign: your half-assed ports welcome.
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I didn't see it that way. In fact I think they went out of their way to say that is NOT how they want apps developed.

Certainly they have no control over the quality of apps that 3 rd party developers write but I'd say they are encouraging them to do things the Metro way.

With MS developing an app store, which AFAIK will be only way to get Metro apps, it'll be interesting how hard of a stance they take on apps that are not written the way they recommend.
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post #202 of 209
9/15/11 at 1:13pm
9to5Mac has a video side-by-side of an iPad w/iOS5 and MS slate with Windows8 . Interesting to say the least.

http://9to5mac.com/2011/09/15/ipad-2...ndows-8-slate/

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #203 of 209
9/15/11 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I didn't see it that way. In fact I think they went out of their way to say that is NOT how they want apps developed.

Certainly they have no control over the quality of apps that 3 rd party developers write but I'd say they are encouraging them to do things the Metro way.

With MS developing an app store, which AFAIK will be only way to get Metro apps, it'll be interesting how hard of a stance they take on apps that are not written the way they recommend.

Absolutely, I think that MS is saying that they want quality apps that use Metro conventions and they've provided templates to move that along.

However, they are also making a point of saying how easy it is to convert your legacy Windows apps, and those are two contradictory stances-- I would say a contradiction baked right into Microsoft's strategy of bolting Metro to Windows.

I mean, naturally you want the highest quality apps possible on your platform, it's just that you can't be super serious about that while also celebrating the fact that that huge back-catalog of mostly mediocre to terrible apps are just a checkbox or two away from joining the party,
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #204 of 209
9/15/11 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

However, they are also making a point of saying how easy it is to convert your legacy Windows apps, and those are two contradictory stances-- I would say a contradiction baked right into Microsoft's strategy of bolting Metro to Windows.
,

Where did they say that and how is that done? I missed that.
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post #205 of 209
9/15/11 at 11:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. It's not lines of code, it's design. The UI is everything for a touch app; it's vastly more important than reusing code from a business logic layer.

iOS has different api's than iOS because that's how they want it, they want a distinction. You don't hear Apple bragging about how easy it is to bump your OS X app over to iOS because it's not easy. Sure, you can reuse code, but rethinking a desktop app for touch is hard work.

MS has basically hung out a welcome sign: your half-assed ports welcome. Else why brag about the few lines of code? They're saying it's really easy, trivial really, to get your Windows desktop app ready for Metro. And I'm saying that merely functioning is the least of it, and by doing that you're inviting trouble.

I can't see where an app store is going to magically make all the apps great. The iPad has great apps because it's hugely popular and a lot of people are developing specifically for that platform, because Apple has enforced some discipline around how apps work, interact and look, and because Apple has led by example.

You can claim that Metro will suddenly have Windows like numbers and so be hugely popular as well, but that just means you have a lot of Windows developers being encouraged to move their apps over as quickly as possible. Which means a great many not very great apps. Just like always in Windows land, I guess.

And even though I expect there will be some great looking, well functioning apps for Metro to come, I suspect they'll largely be things like Twitter clients and other feed centric stuff, since that seems to be where MS thinks the strength of the environment lies (given all the examples so far). Who's going to write Garageband for Metro? Omnigraffle? Keynote? Does Metro even work with those kind of apps? I ask, because all they've shown are phone level stuff-- weather feeds, media lists, contacts and the like. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how this design language lends itself to a productivity app-- but then again it seems like Microsoft's answer to that is that's what Windows is for.

Ok I see what you mean. Rest assured though when you launch a new project in visual studio there's different base templates for standard Metro designs. MSDN also had a tun of videos about the metro design principles, the page you download the preview on has a document about how apps should look and there will be standard controls for the different design elements. Compared to what Apple produced for iOS I would say there on a par with the amount of guidance given if not higher (Apple might just not make its dev videos availiable to the public, but I've always thought there seems a weird lack of them).

In terms of productivity apps. If your on a desktop your not going to use this for productivity, there full screen apps designed for touch. As excited as people have been about full screen apps in lion, most large programs in Windows have had a full screen mode for years but nobody uses them because in any production environent you need to see more than one program. On a tablet we're likely to see a lot of ports from iPad as well as a lot of origional stuff.
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post #206 of 209
9/18/11 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Android is anything BUT coherent... and if I catch your drift regarding your challenge (Google)... you know that.

MS is the only one big enough and with enough hooks in the enterprise, to be a challenge. However, I don't consider them a challenge at all, because:

1) people are NOT going to go back to MS from iOS or OSX;
2) they will be FORCED to use the cheaper alternative at work... as they are today;
3) no one, but NO ONE, will ever say they "Love Windows" and mean it, after experiencing the ease of use of iOS or OSX.

You'd really have to talk with every Windows users to be sure about that. NO ONE? Really?

While number of users who are forced to use Windows (work related) and hate or at least dislike it is huge, I'll bet you there are still much more enthusiasts, geeks, call them what you want... who love Windows and would never EVER switch to OSX.

Like most of my friends.

Me, I will gladly switch from iOS to something else once I decide to retire my 3Gs. It is comfortable platform to use, but for my taste limitations are too huge. And that's even without liking or disliking Apple as a brand.

How many people like me around? A LOT.
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post #207 of 209
9/18/11 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

I love the Metro UI scheme, I think that its a stroke of genius. My personal opinion, of course.

But Windows 8 is a very poor application of such a nice interface.
Nothing about W8 or the test hardware makes any sense to me.

Just watched the video with the sound muted (in the office) and I can spot issues a mile away. MS wont change the UI as well, we all know they wont.

-Start Button is now the trigger for the tablet Interface, why?
-Start Screen is not mouse friendly in the slightest. Why make it the new start "menu" then?
-Windows Desktop UI looks no more finger friendly than its predecessors.
-Panels you swipe from the left just ads more clutter
-Touch/Swipe application switcher is incredibly inefficient when a large number of applications are open
-(not in the video but previously mentioned) Explorer with the ribbon bar. Lets combat this clutter with /more buttons!/

On the hardware side of things, I know its only a test/dev unit, but its:
-too heavy
-too hot
-too noisy
-too big

Not really sure what market Samsung/MS have been shooting for, but what they have right now looks like a laptop after a car crash.

Don't forget that what was demoed there is desktop Win 8 running on tablet with desktop (OK, laptop) hardware... x86 logic.

I don't like idea of that but I do see use, as in people needing full application compatibility between desktop and tablet. Or should we call it "Slate".

Because there is going to be tablet Win 8 which will be to desktop Win 8, I believe, same what iOS is to OSX... more or less. It will have same Metro GUI minus the underlining traditional desktop, much less services running in the background... and no compatibility with desktop Windows 8 apps; though one can expect MS (and others) will release (partially) compatible apps (again, not unlike Pages etc. for iOS).
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post #208 of 209
9/21/11 at 10:23am
There will probably be plenty of revisions from now till the +1 year time it will take for windows 8 to be launched.

I just wonder, how long is the battery life of that tablet they mentioned in the article?
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post #209 of 209
9/21/11 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by accessoriesguy View Post

I just wonder, how long is the battery life of that tablet they mentioned in the article?

Meaningless because that combination of hardware isn't going to be released.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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