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Microsoft to jettison Adobe Flash with 'plug-in free' browsing in Windows 8 Metro IE10 - Page 3

post #81 of 120
9/15/11 at 9:10am
I use ClicktoFlash on my Mac. Very rarely does it actually play Flash video. Most everyone offers pure H.264 stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

The two that annoy me the most would be Engadget and BBC Radio 1. Plus whenever your following a link to a video on a blog or other smaller site, 30 - 40% of the time there in flash.
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post #82 of 120
9/15/11 at 9:13am
appendTo, the company dedicated to jQuery, the world’s most popular JavaScript Library, released data today showing that the percentage of websites that have jQuery deployed has officially surpassed the percentage of websites that have Adobe Flash deployed. Statistics compiled by HTTP Archive (http://httparchive.org), which analyze the world’s top 17,000 websites, show that 48 percent of the sites use jQuery, while 47 percent use Flash.

jQuery Overtakes Flash on World’s Top Websites
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post #83 of 120
9/15/11 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I don't think they have been mum. I believe they have made it crystal clear is that METRO is part of Windows 8 but will not be standalone. True, some have questioned the feasibility of this. And I agree with the doubters. IPad uses 512MB of RAM. Windows 8 will need ≥ 4GB. That does not sound like a tablet that can compete with iPad on price.

This is what they are being coy about:

When asked if users would be able to choose between the Metro UI and the desktop as the default bootup option, a Microsoft spokeswoman said that the company has nothing more to share at this time. But she advised keeping an eye out for the "Building Windows 8" blog and Microsoft's upcoming Build developers conference for "more to come."

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post #84 of 120
9/15/11 at 10:14am
Another thought, does Metro natively support WebM?
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post #85 of 120
9/15/11 at 11:13am
What Adobe says:
"We will continue to support Flash [blah blah blah] full Internet."

What Adobe thinks:
"What a freakin' relief. The sooner we can stop supporting that big ugly mess of Flash spaghetti code the better. SHEESH."

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #86 of 120
9/15/11 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Core**** View Post

I'm really proud that MS is finally getting it. Good on them.

Agreed, and very impressed with what I've seen in Windows 8. Chances of me switching to a MS product are pretty slim but I certainly welcome them giving Apple a run for their money. Serious competition equals a win for consumers.
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post #87 of 120
9/15/11 at 11:55am
It's the sound of a million Fandroids crying out in their parents' basements...
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post #88 of 120
9/15/11 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollerborges View Post

It's the sound of a million Fandroids crying out in their parents' basements...

over what? the fact that we can still use flash on demand and when it dies our browser and Google are still fully committed to HTML 5 so we won't miss a step and in the interim we had the option to view Flash content on the web regardless?

not really anything to cry about...at all...considering that flash is a separate download anyways.
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post #89 of 120
9/15/11 at 12:57pm
This is article is misleading. They aren't ditching Flash. They are ditching plug-ins. Flash being dismissed is an effect of that decision. A good effect. But a side-effect nonetheless.
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post #90 of 120
9/15/11 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

over what? the fact that we can still use flash on demand and when it dies our browser and Google are still fully committed to HTML 5 so we won't miss a step and in the interim we had the option to view Flash content on the web regardless?

not really anything to cry about...at all...considering that flash is a separate download anyways.

Agreed. I thought Google's approach was the correct middle path. They supported Flash, but they've also been pushing HTML 5 hard.

I find that I still use Flash on my phone. Not that often. But there are occassions when you need it (a lot of restaurant websites for example still use Flash). I'll be happy when the world moves on to HTML 5. Till then, not being able to access websites is just plain annoying.
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post #91 of 120
9/15/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I use ClicktoFlash on my Mac. Very rarely does it actually play Flash video. Most everyone offers pure H.264 stream.

And Flash on Android often works the same way if you set the browser plug-in setting to "on demand".
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post #92 of 120
9/15/11 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Agreed. I thought Google's approach was the correct middle path. They supported Flash, but they've also been pushing HTML 5 hard.

I find that I still use Flash on my phone. Not that often. But there are occassions when you need it (a lot of restaurant websites for example still use Flash). I'll be happy when the world moves on to HTML 5. Till then, not being able to access websites is just plain annoying.

exactly. All or nothing for a plug-in makes no sense...killing CDs/DVDs/FloppyDisks makes sense by going all out, but when it comes to software while there is no fully viable alternative...it makes no sense.
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post #93 of 120
9/15/11 at 1:41pm
The reason Flash is being abandoned is for the exact same reasons previous technology was abandoned. If it is continued to be supported many people will continue to use it regardless to if their is something newer and better.

The reason HTML 5 has had such successful adoption is largely because of the success of iOS and its support of HTML5. Otherwise most everyone would just continue try to prop Flash up and make it work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

exactly. All or nothing for a plug-in makes no sense...killing CDs/DVDs/FloppyDisks makes sense by going all out, but when it comes to software while there is no fully viable alternative...it makes no sense.
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post #94 of 120
9/15/11 at 1:46pm
I wonder if this decision means MS is abandoning Silverlight. Or are some plug-ins less of a plug-in than others?
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post #95 of 120
9/15/11 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Yet another nail in Flash's coffin!

But, but, but... I'm ENTITLED to decide to put Flash on any device I own! Flash is a web standard! How dare Apple and now Microsoft deny me freedom of choice!
Its a conspiracy to control the web!! It's a ... Oooh!! Unicorn!!!!

</sarcasm>

The fact that you needed to convey that your comment was sarcastic reveals much about the intelligence level around here as well as your own.
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post #96 of 120
9/15/11 at 1:59pm
Nobody seems to be mentioning the obvious: Flash has always run extremely well in the Windows environment.

This article is just mindless Apple fanboy nonsense, trying to make it sound as though MS had Flash in it's crosshairs. That's not the case.

See, the difference between Apple and Google and MS is Google and MS actually got Flash to run well on two different platforms that Apple seems to try to convince people would be impossible to do.

Steve Jobs said it was impossible to run it on a mobile OS. He said it would be a battery drain. The reality is it runs fine in Android, and it doesn't drain the battery much faster than streaming any video content.

Another smash hit piece from Apple Inside-me
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post #97 of 120
9/15/11 at 2:01pm
Silverlight is being folded into the Metro development tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I wonder if this decision means MS is abandoning Silverlight. Or are some plug-ins less of a plug-in than others?
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post #98 of 120
9/15/11 at 2:02pm
**accidentally posted
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post #99 of 120
9/15/11 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

So if another Android fan comes along and brags about flash, we now have quotes and testimonies from both Microsoft and Apple on how s**t it actually is. Good day to be right. B)

Good day to be right?

Your willful ignorance amuses me

Unlike OSX, Flash runs great in Windows, and just fine in Android. Microsoft is doing away with ALL plug-ins, not just Flash. Your desperate need to feel right about something has let you actually believe they are out to destroy Flash alone, not even acknowledging MS has their own product Silverlight, which is a plug-in.

You guys just wanted so bad for Steve Jobs not to turn out to be a sleazy salesman selling you nonsense, but sadly, even Jobs needed to sell his company's product and make you feel confident that a lack of something was a good thing, and that you never actually wanted it all along.
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post #100 of 120
9/15/11 at 2:05pm
So very happy to hear this one!
I cringe every time I run into a new site based on Flash. I want to see this thing decline fast.
I really look forward to the day I can finally remove it from my computer.

I tried eliminating it a few months ago, but the number of sites that gave me trouble over it was too frustrating to continue, and I reinstalled it.
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post #101 of 120
9/15/11 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Silverlight is being folded into the Metro development tools.

Let's hope Adobe doesn't cry to MS and somehow keep Flash in full swing with this route
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post #102 of 120
9/15/11 at 2:08pm
For the web to move forward and for consumers to get the most out of touch-first browsing, the Metro style browser in Windows 8 is as HTML5-only as possible, and plug-in free. The experience that plug-ins provide today is not a good match with Metro style browsing and the modern HTML5 web.

Running Metro style IE plug-in free improves battery life as well as security, reliability, and privacy for consumers.

Dean from Microsoft


Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Nobody seems to be mentioning the obvious: Flash has always run extremely well in the Windows environment.
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post #103 of 120
9/15/11 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Good day to be right?

Your willful ignorance amuses me

Unlike OSX, Flash runs great in Windows, and just fine in Android. Microsoft is doing away with ALL plug-ins, not just Flash. Your desperate need to feel right about something has let you actually believe they are out to destroy Flash alone, not even acknowledging MS has their own product Silverlight, which is a plug-in.

You guys just wanted so bad for Steve Jobs not to turn out to be a sleazy salesman selling you nonsense, but sadly, even Jobs needed to sell his company's product and make you feel confident that a lack of something was a good thing, and that you never actually wanted it all along.

Wow. Those system slow-downs that occur occasionally on your Mac - those are more than likely due to Flash taking your system down. Happens to me a lot.
I do not recall Steve ever saying it didn't run well on Windows, just that it never ran well on the Mac, and Adobe didn't seem to care enough to fix it. His decision was the right one.

Steve may nor may not be sleazy. I wouldn't know. I've never met him nor worked at Apple. From things I've read, I don't believe he is. However, I don't see how that is relevant to this very factual call on his part. How do I know this is a fact? I experience it regularly. Kill the Flash process, and my machine comes back to life.
Flash sucks, and I hope it dies quickly.
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post #104 of 120
9/15/11 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Nobody seems to be mentioning the obvious: Flash has always run extremely well in the Windows environment.

Only if you want to include consistently being at or near the top of the list for security vulnerabilities in your definition of "extremely well".

Remove the rose tinted glasses.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #105 of 120
9/15/11 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post

Wow .. seriously. Does M$ really, really need to copy almost everything that Apple does?

What? If there's anything Microsoft SHOULD copy from Apple, it's things like this. Like Jobs said, "Good artists copy, great artists steal"

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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post #106 of 120
9/15/11 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

MS didn't jettison anything. The first website you go that has flash will ask you to download it. A VAST majority will click the button and then you will have flash on the browser.

Comprehension of the article:- absolute fail.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #107 of 120
9/15/11 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I use ClicktoFlash on my Mac..

It stopped working with Safari 5.1.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #108 of 120
9/15/11 at 4:09pm
What do you mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

It stopped working with Safari 5.1.
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post #109 of 120
9/15/11 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

exactly. All or nothing for a plug-in makes no sense...killing CDs/DVDs/FloppyDisks makes sense by going all out, but when it comes to software while there is no fully viable alternative...it makes no sense.

It makes no sense? I guess it made sense to the millions who have purchased iPhones and iPads. It also made sense to Android tablet makers - those who shipped their products before Flash was ready.
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post #110 of 120
9/15/11 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

This is article is misleading. They aren't ditching Flash. They are ditching plug-ins. Flash being dismissed is an effect of that decision. A good effect. But a side-effect nonetheless.

Ha! When Apple ditched plug-ins in iOS, all that everyone, AND I DO MEAN EVERYONE wanted to talk about was Apple vs. Adobe Flash. Even Adobe took that stance. Now Microsoft ditches plug-ins and suddenly this article is "misleading"???
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #111 of 120
9/15/11 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What do you mean?

Note: Safari 5.1 drops support for WebKit Plugins, which unfortunately includes ClickToFlash.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #112 of 120
9/15/11 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

It makes no sense? I guess it made sense to the millions who have purchased iPhones and iPads. It also made sense to Android tablet makers - those who shipped their products before Flash was ready.

yes, because flash isn't a necessity (who said it was? I sure as hell didn't) but it is a good tool to have the O P T I O N (noun: the power or right of choosing) while it still can be useful while still being on a platform that fully supports HTML 5 and will support it from now on.

Soooooooo PM me or something when you actually have a point.

I hardly ever use flash on my Android phone...but for the times I do, I am glad it's there as a lot of sites do not have HTML 5 yet.

Looking towards the future is great...Apple does that amazingly (and anyone who denies that should be smacked). But forgetting the present is retarded in my opinion.

There isn't an app for everything just yet.
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post #113 of 120
9/15/11 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Note: Safari 5.1 drops support for WebKit Plugins, which unfortunately includes ClickToFlash.

Download ClickToFlash 2.4.1 or ClicktoPlugin 2.4.1 (enhanced functionality) for Safari 5.1.
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post #114 of 120
9/15/11 at 7:52pm
Screw you, Adobe, screw you. You will not be missed.
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post #115 of 120
9/15/11 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

yes, because flash isn't a necessity (who said it was? I sure as hell didn't) but it is a good tool to have the O P T I O N (noun: the power or right of choosing) while it still can be useful while still being on a platform that fully supports HTML 5 and will support it from now on.

Who cares about the O P T I O N, if developers chose to make their work invisible to me it's their (and their clients) loss, I'll go somewhere else.

The Internet is big enough that you don't have to be crammed into a cattle car based on the whims of developers, there is plenty more to see and do.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #116 of 120
9/15/11 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Who cares about the O P T I O N, if developers chose to make their work invisible to me it's their (and their clients) loss, I'll go somewhere else.

The Internet is big enough that you don't have to be crammed into a cattle car based on the whims of developers, there is plenty more to see and do.

I just remembered that you're amongst the irrational.

enjoy. Truth is no platform is ignoring HTML 5 and all major players are actively developing it in some way. It is going to get big fast. period. there is literally no need to allow any void in the net because you think it'll somehow keep HTML 5 from advancing faster.

Yes, Apple deemed it unworthy (for their mobile OS) but they sure as hell haven't blocked their desktop OS from using it. Talk to your boys Steve and Tim about that. They must not be fully committed to HTML 5 because Flash still works on a Mac. :gasp:
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post #117 of 120
9/15/11 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I just remembered that you're amongst the irrational.

enjoy. Truth is no platform is ignoring HTML 5 and all major players are actively developing it in some way. It is going to get big fast. period. there is literally no need to allow any void in the net because you think it'll somehow keep HTML 5 from advancing faster.

Yes, Apple deemed it unworthy (for their mobile OS) but they sure as hell haven't blocked their desktop OS from using it. Talk to your boys Steve and Tim about that. They must not be fully committed to HTML 5 because Flash still works on a Mac. :gasp:

meh, I've been using the Internet since it was text based.

I am quite capable of finding what I want without excessive eye candy.

I first learnt about the deficiencies of Flash while using 64 bit Linux in 2004, that experience showed me just how much I didn't really need it.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #118 of 120
9/15/11 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

meh, I've been using the Internet since it was text based.

I am quite capable of finding what I want without excessive eye candy.

I first learnt about the deficiencies of Flash while using 64 bit Linux in 2004, that experience showed me just how much I didn't really need it.

in all fairness Flash in '04 was a lot worse than Flash in '11

I don't try and dodge Flash...don't actively seek it but if it comes along it's nice to be able to use it if need be.
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post #119 of 120
9/18/11 at 4:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applecation View Post

So very happy to hear this one!
I cringe every time I run into a new site based on Flash. I want to see this thing decline fast.
I really look forward to the day I can finally remove it from my computer.

I tried eliminating it a few months ago, but the number of sites that gave me trouble over it was too frustrating to continue, and I reinstalled it.

So you've experienced issues when you got rid of flash and had to get it back. But your pleased that in the metro ie you won't be able to get it back.
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post #120 of 120
9/18/11 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

in all fairness Flash in '04 was a lot worse than Flash in '11

I don't try and dodge Flash...don't actively seek it but if it comes along it's nice to be able to use it if need be.

The amount of effort they've put into Flash over these last few years has been great, but it's not nearly great enough. Yeah, it's a lot better, but think of the changes that occurred from 2004 to 2007 (before MS Silverlight and the iPhone was on the market) and the changes from 2008 to 2011. Without MS coming at them on one front with many good advancements with Silverlight (and getting large contracts, like Netflix) and Apple publicly stating that Flash was undesirable for many valid reasons I think it's safe to say that Adobe would not have worked nearly as hard as they have to take Flash from being really crashy and resource heavy to a fairly crashy and resource heafty plug-in.
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