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post #41 of 96
9/16/11 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

As a Canadian I feel sad about this. It seems like it's been a never ending stream of great companies - Corel, ATI, Nortel, and now RIM that reach a certain level of success and then get gobbled up by the American behemoths down south.

I use an iPhone at work, mostly because our President wanted one and I had to support it - but 99% of our users run Blackberry's. I honestly think Blackberry's are a better product in the corporate world, but as we all know Apple is the media darling so gets all the headlines and therefore mindshare.

I can sympathize with you here (tho I am "south of the border" ). The problem is not that Apple has "gobbled up" RIMM, but rather that RIMM shot itself in the foot - and now the head it seems.

They had an opportunity to move forward with good, well designed products, but they blew it big time. Nokia came to them (or so I have read) offering to join together with MeeGo a Linux based alternative that was free of exterior motivations/entanglements. But they rejected that out of what I can only see as pride and arrogance. They had no experience in developing real GUI operating systems, and they thought they could just jump in and do it. That was big-time foolish.

Apple does not care about competition. They welcome it (as long as it does not rip off their IP). They compete by their drive to develop the best products, incorporating the greatest technology. They are happy to do this.

But RIMM just flubbed big time. I agree - kinda sad.
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post #42 of 96
9/16/11 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

As a Canadian I feel sad about this. It seems like it's been a never ending stream of great companies - Corel, ATI, Nortel, and now RIM that reach a certain level of success and then get gobbled up by the American behemoths down south.

I use an iPhone at work, mostly because our President wanted one and I had to support it - but 99% of our users run Blackberry's. I honestly think Blackberry's are a better product in the corporate world, but as we all know Apple is the media darling so gets all the headlines and therefore mindshare.

Your Canuck buddy, J. Balsillie was more interested in acquiring a hockey club than he was in building smartphones and that's one good reason why RIM is on a treacherous slope. Another reason is that one Steve Jobs is smarter than two co-CEOs. No need in going into the rest of the reasons because Apple and RIM are going in opposite directions. RIM at one point owned the smartphone industry but I guess they thought texting would last forever so they kept refining the keyboard while the rest of the industry moved on to more interesting things. I think a BlackBerry is still a very functional smartphone if your life revolves around covert texting and messaging, but I guess there's more to getting consumers' interest that RIM wanted no part of.
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post #43 of 96
9/16/11 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

I honestly think Blackberry's are a better product in the corporate world

There's just not enough clueless MBAs around who will buy a Crackberry anymore.
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post #44 of 96
9/16/11 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

RIM also has a lot of business and enterprise features that will make it much easier to implement into iOS.

Besides their messaging and email, what features do they bring to the table that could be considered "a lot"?

The fact that they bring little else is part of the reason they're getting hammered. It's much easier for competitors to implement these features on their own than it is for RIM to up their game to the level of the competition.
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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post #45 of 96
9/16/11 at 9:24am
To 'steamroll' infers some effort, Apple won't even notice RIM's efforts.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #46 of 96
9/16/11 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

I can sympathize with you here (tho I am "south of the border" ). The problem is not that Apple has "gobbled up" RIMM, but rather that RIMM shot itself in the foot - and now the head it seems.

They had an opportunity to move forward with good, well designed products, but they blew it big time. Nokia came to them (or so I have read) offering to join together with MeeGo a Linux based alternative that was free of exterior motivations/entanglements. But they rejected that out of what I can only see as pride and arrogance. They had no experience in developing real GUI operating systems, and they thought they could just jump in and do it. That was big-time foolish.

Apple does not care about competition. They welcome it (as long as it does not rip off their IP). They compete by their drive to develop the best products, incorporating the greatest technology. They are happy to do this.

But RIMM just flubbed big time. I agree - kinda sad.

100% agree. Canadian need to go back and read RIM's management statements at the start regarding the iPhone to see this. They mocked Apple and explained how 'real keyboards' were essential not to mention the lecture about Apple having no phone experience. The expression 'They got their come·up·pance' springs to mind.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #47 of 96
9/16/11 at 9:57am

Apple logo


Steve Jobs driving the Applemobile


Apple's competition after Apple rolls over them
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post #48 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:04am
Apple's iPhone 5 expected to 'steamroll' RIM's BlackBerry 7 phones


In other news, water is wet...
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post #49 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:04am
In five years, this will be the only thing people remember when they think of RIM:

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #50 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Buy RIM for what? To own a line of smart phones that are basically, obsolete? RIM will just fall by the wayside much faster than we think.

Seems to me that RIM has just about reached that tipping point where millions upon millions of smart phone buyers are independently but simultaneously deciding that they're not getting a Blackberry for their next phone. That's how sales collapses happen, first you see a gradual erosion of demand and you project that into the future thinking there's enough time for the mfr to fix things, then people notice that their friends and relatives aren't buying the product anymore and they decide they'll follow suit then BAM! the gradual erosion turns into a downward spiral.

When the iPhone first came out, I said RIMM is already dead they just don't know it yet. They're starting to know.

This is the most complete and well-worded illustration of why RIM was F'd the moment the iPhone was demonstrated I have read- an internet to you sir!
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post #51 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post


RIM has strong Microsoft culture, their enterprise department is almost like subsidiary of Microsoft (heavily in MS technology stack, with open hostility towards any technologies/programming languages that don't come from Redmond). And even the mobile group is clamoring to develop mobile BB apps in C# rather than Java.

If that were the case I would not need a Blackberry Enterprise Server to integrate the phones with my Exchange Server. I can integrate directly to Exchange from an iPhone, iPad and Android device. Including all of the security policies like remote lock and remote wipe directly from the Exchange Management Console.
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post #52 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:11am
My favorite story of the whole situation is when the iPhone was first announced the folks at RIM thought Apple was blowing smoke because what they were supposedly showing on stage "couldn't be done".

If your own people who are charged with creating new and advanced products see something announced and react that way - your company is probably doomed.

I've had exactly 1 Blackberry in my life and there were so many serious design flaws with it I just couldn't believe it made it through R&D. I hung onto it long enough to get an iPhone and haven't looked back.
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post #53 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

As a Canadian I feel sad about this. It seems like it's been a never ending stream of great companies - Corel, ATI, Nortel, and now RIM that reach a certain level of success and then get gobbled up by the American behemoths down south.

I use an iPhone at work, mostly because our President wanted one and I had to support it - but 99% of our users run Blackberry's. I honestly think Blackberry's are a better product in the corporate world, but as we all know Apple is the media darling so gets all the headlines and therefore mindshare.


henry ford syndrome

you get a world changing innovator but they stagnate on their original vision and fail to change. in the 1920's it was Ford vs GM. in the 2000's it was MS vs Google/Apple. Bill Gates made microsoft but for mobile he insisted on a desktop UI and it never went anywhere. Pocket PC was pretty cool along with Palm but too many shortcomings to make it really useful. same with intel and AMD. they dumped their mobile business right before the big boom because management was focused on PC/server business
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post #54 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibgarrett View Post

My favorite story of the whole situation is when the iPhone was first announced the folks at RIM thought Apple was blowing smoke because what they were supposedly showing on stage "couldn't be done".

If your own people who are charged with creating new and advanced products see something announced and react that way - your company is probably doomed.

I've had exactly 1 Blackberry in my life and there were so many serious design flaws with it I just couldn't believe it made it through R&D. I hung onto it long enough to get an iPhone and haven't looked back.

for a long time it was the killer phone for mobile MS Exchange email. not anymore
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post #55 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

What a pointless news story. I notice you didn't bother to add anything about Android 'steamrolling' iOS, as it will inevitably continue to do.

Yes. Apple is in danger of losing most of its business because Android phones are steamrolling iPhone sales. Fewer and fewer iPhones are being sold each quarter and Apple is bleeding money. The cash reserves at Apple are falling due to the incredible success of Android devices. I'm completely with you on this. AI is derelict, as usual, in not reporting this. AI is completely blinded by their fanboi mentality.

(Not)
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post #56 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

More than any other smart phone manufacturer, RIM had their chance. With absolutely no vision at the top they failed to innovate. Death soon follows when blood stops being pumped to the brain.

Brilliant and right on! RIM is now in the "business" of "going out of business!"
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post #57 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryb View Post

Yes. Apple is in danger of losing most of its business because Android phones are steamrolling iPhone sales. Fewer and fewer iPhones are being sold each quarter and Apple is bleeding money. The cash reserves at Apple are falling due to the incredible success of Android devices. I'm completely with you on this. AI is derelict, as usual, in not reporting this. AI is completely blinded by their fanboi mentality.

(Not)

I have an iP4 and three of my coworkers have Android's...they complain that they are POS. They do things one way one time and another thing the next time...they find them really annoying. Reminds me of my Windows friends, problems, problems, problems!
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post #58 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryb View Post

Yes. Apple is in danger of losing most of its business because Android phones are steamrolling iPhone sales. Fewer and fewer iPhones are being sold each quarter and Apple is bleeding money. The cash reserves at Apple are falling due to the incredible success of Android devices. I'm completely with you on this. AI is derelict, as usual, in not reporting this. AI is completely blinded by their fanboi mentality.

(Not)

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/
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post #59 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

In five years, this will be the only thing people remember when they think of RIM:

Research In Motion, seems like that's the ONE thing it didn't do.
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post #60 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/

lilgto64- He's showing how ridiculous it is by taking the position (uber-sarcasm)-
reference 'not'

ken
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post #61 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/

You may have missed the sarcasm in his post, hence the "(not)" at the end.
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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post #62 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/

[/sarcasm]

You missed it.
You can't spell appeal without Apple.
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You can't spell appeal without Apple.
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post #63 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

You may have missed the sarcasm in his post, hence the "(not)" at the end.

so I did.
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post #64 of 96
9/16/11 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Remember, RIMs problems are rooted in their failure to keep pace with the rival smart phones' technology.

+1 Additionally, they were arrogant and mocked the idea that Apple could come up with a competing phone - they became complacent and are now paying the price.
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post #65 of 96
9/16/11 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

What a pointless news story. I notice you didn't bother to add anything about Android 'steamrolling' iOS, as it will inevitably continue to do.

And the iPhone will continue to steamroll every Android phone...besides, your point is only valid if you consider Android as a completely unified platform. That is a very, very bold assumption.

I can tell you for sure what the number 1 phone will be on AT&T and Verizon in 2012. It will be the iPhone. I am about 90% sure this will be true on Sprint too. The only way it is not true is if the iPhone is not sold on sprint. The iPhone 5 will be the number 1 handset in the world in 2012. None of my assumptions are anywhere near as big as yours.
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post #66 of 96
9/16/11 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/

Finally a story that defines why you cannot compare iPhones to Android. I kinda understood logically but with some many stories comparing Android to iPhones I was getting confused...thinking 'Am I missing something?' Thank you for sharing this story.
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post #67 of 96
9/16/11 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/

Great Links. The first link's article is so blindingly obvious I can't believe Android fans even need to have this pointed out but it seems they do. iOS and iPhone are wiping the floor with both Android in total v iOS and Apple as an phone maker against anyone else plain and simple. The added fact Apple is making massive margins whereas the rest are not is just so much the better for AAPL.
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Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #68 of 96
9/16/11 at 11:44am
A company makes $300m in profit in 3 months and it's "failing"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Great Links. The first link's article is so blindingly obvious I can't believe Android fans even need to have this pointed out but it seems they do. iOS and iPhone are wiping the floor with both Android in total v iOS and Apple as an phone maker against anyone else plain and simple. The added fact Apple is making massive margins whereas the rest are not is just so much the better for AAPL.

So why is it that every time I go to major events I see more people with HTC and Samsung phones than I see with iPhone?
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post #69 of 96
9/16/11 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

More than any other smart phone manufacturer, RIM had their chance. With absolutely no vision at the top they failed to innovate. Death soon follows when blood stops being pumped to the brain.

this man speaks facts (in this instance) -_-

In fact I'd argue that RIM's and Microsoft's stagnation allowed for the exponential growth of Android. iOS didn't have to rely on any failures to succeed...and then Android filled the gap that these two too comfortable companies left in the evolving smartphone market.

At least MS seems to be back on track with WP7+ (though the other two trains may be too far ahead, time will tell)

RIM keeps falling of the track and may be disqualified relatively shortly unless they can get some sort of monumental speed boost in the near future.
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post #70 of 96
9/16/11 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryb View Post

Yes. Apple is in danger of losing most of its business because Android phones are steamrolling iPhone sales. Fewer and fewer iPhones are being sold each quarter and Apple is bleeding money. The cash reserves at Apple are falling due to the incredible success of Android devices. I'm completely with you on this. AI is derelict, as usual, in not reporting this. AI is completely blinded by their fanboi mentality.

(Not)



More and more smartphones PERIOD are being bought...Android and iOS continue to dominate the smartphone market...Android is growing faster, sure, but iOS is no where near falling...


Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I have an iP4 and three of my coworkers have Android's...they complain that they are POS. They do things one way one time and another thing the next time...they find them really annoying. Reminds me of my Windows friends, problems, problems, problems!

Eh...your coworkers are either morons or bought shitty phones.

That's the darkside of choice.
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post #71 of 96
9/16/11 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/

regarding the loopinsight article only idiots think Android has a larger share than iOS on the OS level. When the more rational people bring this totally pointless argument into the mix they are at least smart enough to specify the smartphone market.
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post #72 of 96
9/16/11 at 12:25pm
While it's been discussed RIM's demise was predetermined when the iPhone was introduced, I think the real knockout blow is when Apple poached RIM's head of enterprise Sales and his team last year.

Apple started to finally make inroads to the enterprise market, but getting RIM's enterprise sales guys was huge. Not like a machine like Apple needed anymore help, but I think this just sped up the process of RIM's demise.

Alas I am sad as a Canadian that another Canadian tech giant is getting beaten to a pulp. At least it wasnt greed or corruption that undermined it's future, just plain arrogance unfortunately.

At least we still have Canadarm2.
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post #73 of 96
9/16/11 at 12:37pm
RIM is still pretty strong in the enterprise market where, contrary to what some posters think, security is a BIG DEAL.

I wouldn't be suprised if Microsoft took a run at RIM. It would be a good fit given their focus on large corporate users. MS and BB might even add value to each other.

Apple doesn't seem to be directly interested in that market. Their penatration to date seems to be a carry over from the consumer market where they do quite well.
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post #74 of 96
9/16/11 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So who's gonna buy RIM?

Sounds to me like Google might try.

I think Apple certainly aught to.

Where's the value to Apple in that? Other than a valuable patent portfolio, RIM brings very little to the table.

HP's webOS GBU, on the other hand, seems to me to be much more attractive for Apple.
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post #75 of 96
9/16/11 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

henry ford syndrome

you get a world changing innovator but they stagnate on their original vision and fail to change. in the 1920's it was Ford vs GM. in the 2000's it was MS vs Google/Apple. Bill Gates made microsoft but for mobile he insisted on a desktop UI and it never went anywhere. Pocket PC was pretty cool along with Palm but too many shortcomings to make it really useful. same with intel and AMD. they dumped their mobile business right before the big boom because management was focused on PC/server business

That is actually precisely why Jobs is so admired. He had the ability to completely drop what he was doing historically, and start on something absolutely new.

I mean, Mac OS X was his baby (right from its creation at NextStep), but when it came to equipping the iPhone, and iPad, they dropped it in favor of iOS.
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post #76 of 96
9/16/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

White said RIM's BlackBerry fresh was simply too little, too late

Is this a new model Blackberry? Or possibly a typo (that should say refresh) from AI which rarely happens? \ Or too little too late?
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post #77 of 96
9/16/11 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/

Sorry. It was sarcasm.
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post #78 of 96
9/16/11 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryb View Post

Sorry. It was sarcasm.

oh okay, then I retract my comment towards you.
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post #79 of 96
9/16/11 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

1. I don't think it is clear that Android sales have even equaled iOS sales yet: http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/04/2...-market-share/

2. from what dark hole of misinformation did you pull the Apple's cash reserves are falling ? http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...g_balance.html http://www.mactrast.com/2011/09/appl...e-end-of-2012/

That entire post was a joke, as evidenced by the "not" at the conclusion. I think we all need a drink.
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post #80 of 96
9/16/11 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

As a Canadian I feel sad about this. It seems like it's been a never ending stream of great companies - Corel, ATI, Nortel, and now RIM that reach a certain level of success and then get gobbled up by the American behemoths down south.

I use an iPhone at work, mostly because our President wanted one and I had to support it - but 99% of our users run Blackberry's. I honestly think Blackberry's are a better product in the corporate world, but as we all know Apple is the media darling so gets all the headlines and therefore mindshare.

With due respect (and empathy), I've just found the BB interface and OS incredibly cumbersome and counter-intuitive. Even after almost 2 years (contract's up next month!) I find it annoying, requiring too many menu and sub-menu elections to do the simplest task. Whereas the day I picked up my SO's iPhone 3GS, it all just "made sense" and was incredibly workable.

And with Apple now supporting enterprise solutions, I think it's hard to continue to justify the statement that BBs are "better" for business.
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