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Microsoft to take 30% cut of Metro apps under Windows 8 - Page 2

post #41 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

New Metro-style apps designed to run on Microsoft's forthcoming Windows 8 for tablets will copy Apple's App Store business model of charging a 30 percent fee from developers

So apps made by developers will turn around and charge their makers 30% ?
What will these apps do with their cash?

How about, "Microsoft will copy Apple's App Store business model of charging a 30 percent fee from developers of apps designed for Windows 8 Metro for tablets"
post #42 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

So the Metro UI is actually just a layer. What happened to the classic desktop won't load if the user don't want it?!

...

As it is normal within the windows community, there will be somebody who would produce a workaround that would bypass the layer just like MS would do to their enterprise customer as noted in the article. I wouldn't be surprise if the pirated copy of W8 would have the option to do this. There would also be a version where they streamlined the OS that enable it to run faster and more efficient w/o the craps that is windows add-ons.

OTH, by removing the Metro layer, what you essentially get is 2010 Windows 7 FAIL!
post #43 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by accessoriesguy View Post

This layer over 7 reminds me of OSX Lion. if 10.7.2 doesn't fix some things up, i'm downgrading back to Snow Leopard (and not because of the bugs) but because it has a lot of necessaries not to mention its killing my productivity.

Great to know windows is trying to take t he same path.

Linux might be in your future. You can choose a basic window manager without sacrificing up to date apps and a modern OS. Xfce seems to be what the minimalists are using nowadays.
post #44 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It means if iTunes is free, Apple would have to share 30% of $0.00 with Microsoft. Do the math.

Not so. The Kindle Reader app is certainly free, but that hasn't stopped Apple from setting up their policies to try to charge Amazon 30% for books purchased through that app. So if Apple brought a Metro version of iTunes out, it would logically follow that Microsoft could charge Apple 30% of all music/video/book purchased through it.

I actually think that's a crap policy on Apple's part too - there are legitimate reasons for taking a cut on apps, but if you have something where the content is well known, the distribution mechanism is NOT through Apple's servers, etc., it seems pretty rich to try to enforce the same cut.
post #45 of 98
The strategy, if correct, suggests that Microsoft would profit from being the default choice for Windows apps, much as Apple hopes for the Mac App Store. It could simultaneously fork Windows 8 app development where those who want to be in the Windows Store are pushed to either use an older, desktop-oriented interface to get full profits or to lose 30 percent of their revenue to publish a modern and tablet-native version. Microsoft won't require that apps publish through its store but will give much more exposure to apps that go through its official channel.
post #46 of 98
What happened to everyone who called Apple a greedy, evil, anti-competitive corporation for taking a 30% cut of app sales? According to them, Apple didn't need a 30% cut for the service they provide and this was another example of the "Apple tax." Well, guess what. It's a pretty typical arrangement. Even the great Google charges a 30% cut for app sales in the Android Market.
post #47 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

i like Metro. at least Microsoft is actually innovating and trying to differentiate from Apple/iOS.

Well there is thing that they may be copying.

Rumor has it, Metro won't support Flash

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post #48 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post

Qualcomm based tablet running Windows 8 showing a Flash enabled webpage inside IE 10 Desktop version:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/16/a...#disqus_thread


Maybe it is Apple copying Xbox Live service.

I'm assuming you're linking to that because you think Windows tablets are doomed and you want to buttress your case?

Because that's a video of pretty much the same failed tablet format that MS has been shipping for years-- Windows with a passing application of touch. We already know that Windows with a passing application of touch can do Flash, it's just that it does it in a lousy touch environment.

Metro, Microsoft's somewhat more specific touch environment on the other hand, does not, and if you run it on a tablet with a reasonable power envelope you won't have the Windows That Does Flash available to you. So I guess people will really dig having Flash on their terrible battery life, hot, non-touch optimized browser? Awesome. Point taken.
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post #49 of 98
Windows 8 = Windows 7 + neon lights.
post #50 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Windows 8 = Windows 7 + neon lights.

And apparently "Windows tablets" = Neon lights - Windows 7. Honestly, I don't see how this works for MS any better than WP7 has worked to capture smart phone market. WP7 is a very similar approach to a touch device UI, and it's gone nowhere. I thought the whole selling point of a Windows Touch Tablet is that it would leverage the might of Windows while delivering on the promise of WP7. Instead, it proves to be basically a stand alone tablet OS with no backwards compatibility, entering a very competitive market with an entrenched incumbent. So why is Metro a big success when WP7 has been a total flop, again?
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post #51 of 98
Paul Thurrott has shown time and time again what a complete Fk'n moron he is! It is truly amazing that someone so stupid can keep a job in the tech space.
post #52 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

Just go ahead and misquote him.

Windows Weekly 228 TWIT network
8:58
Re: the tablet handed out at BUILD...

Thurott: "the other big difference between this and a iPad..well actually I guess there are several differences, this is a computer and iPad is a device, right. So this has a fan...

Leo laPorte: "It has a fan?!... Wow"

Thurott: "Yeah, well it's a computer."
post #53 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Wouldn't it be cool if Microsoft actually made a better music and video store than Apple? It would cause Apple to redesign iTunes to work better and have a more user friendly interface. I do think iTunes could improve a lot.

Don't flame me but I really think that the Zune online interface was pretty good, though all the Flash stuff could cause it to slow a bit. MS should incorporate that into their next music store.

Hope you like Apple-flavored napalm...

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post #54 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

many PPC based Macs didnt have Fans either. Original iMac, PowerMac B&W, PowerMac Gigabit, etc.

Windows 8, a culmination of eights generations of PITA.


As someone who both owned both an original 233 Megahertz iMac and a Blue&White G3, they both have fans. The G3 has one in the side opposite the door. The iMac has an internal fan you can see as soon as you pull the logic board.
post #55 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Windows Weekly 228 TWIT network
8:58
Re: the tablet handed out at BUILD...

Thurott: "the other big difference between this and a iPad..well actually I guess there are several differences, this is a computer and iPad is a device, right. So this has a fan...

Leo laPorte: "It has a fan?!... Wow"

Thurott: "Yeah, well it's a computer."

I don't get why people are struggling so much with this one?

It's so obvious to me that the Samsung tablet is nothing like an iPad.

It's a hot, energy hungry, powerful x86 Intel i5 dev computer crammed into a tablet case - fans and all.

It's nothing like the svelte, cool running, power sipping, consumer focused ARM driven device like the iPad is.
post #56 of 98
[QUOTE=AppleInsider;1943590]

Windows 8 = Windows 7 + Metro ?

Do the math, more like:

Windows 8 = Windows 7 + Hype
post #57 of 98
[QUOTE=80025;1943910]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Windows 8 = Windows 7 + Metro ?

Do the math, more like:

Windows 8 = Windows 7 + Hype

More like Windows 8 = OSX + significant sales?
post #58 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You're making a joke, right? Zero existing Windows applications will work on these tablets. You know that.

THE ARTICLE EXPLICITLY SAYS THIS IS THE CASE.

No, actually the article says that there WILL be x86 tablets released: "While PC makers can continue to sell x86 tablets, these devices, ranging from Tablet PC to UMPCs to Slate PC to convertible notebooks with tablet features, have never sold well in the past due to their performance and efficiency compromises and their significant cost premium over modern ARM tablets."

But what if Windows 8 actually runs WELL on x86 hardware? It runs remarkably on the dev preview tablets out in the wild, and those are only prototypes.

And according to Renee James from Intel, "[Windows 8 traditional] means that our customers, or anyone who has an Intel-based or an x86-based product, will be able to run either Windows 7 mode or Windows 8 mode," she said. "They'll run all of their old applications, all of their old files there'll be no issue."
post #59 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSTER BOT View Post

But what if Windows 8 actually runs WELL on x86 hardware? It runs remarkably on the dev preview tablets out in the wild, and those are only prototypes.

Looking at Intel's latest announcements I think they will get there.

They have Ivy Bridge in 2012 before Windows 8 launches which should work for "dockable" devices and Haswell in 2013 which looks to be a true tablet contender.

I think their two main problems aren't the CPU itself but the integrated GPU and pricing.
post #60 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Here's what I don't get about Microsoft's strategy: Microsoft had a proper low-power version of Windows that supported ARM and other low power CPUs (like Hitachi SH or the MIPS chips) for many, many years. It was Windows CE, later renamed Windows Mobile. And before iOS, this mobile OS was dominating Palm OS, their nearest competitor.

Windows Mobile is built on top of Windows CE, not a rebranding. Windows CE still exists under Windows Phone 7 and many other devices.

Quote:
Now their mobile strategy is: forget that code base, we are going to put Windows on a tablet, but "real Windows", which means it's x86 and can run real Windows applications, but there's also an ARM version that'll be "real Windows" except it can't run any programs written for "real Windows" because it only supports this new Metro UI. So how is it "real Windows" and why would it have any advantage over their lean and clean version of Windows for devices formerly known as Windows CE? And I'm using the term "real Windows" the way Paul Thuriott was using it in his quote above.

The Desktop and Metro UI will be accessible both on X86 and ARM based devices. I don't think they were very accurate when stating the desktop won't be accessible on ARM devices. Microsoft is rewriting Office and their apps for ARM devices and other developers will be able to do so as well. Paul has been inaccurate before. Adobe demoed Flash running in the desktop IE on an ARM device.

Microsoft just has to market it correctly. How? Idk, but I'm sure they have all this planned out. People just have to stop being so pessimistic about what they are doing and just wait and see how their plans unfold.
post #61 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

What happened to everyone who called Apple a greedy, evil, anti-competitive corporation for taking a 30% cut of app sales? According to them, Apple didn't need a 30% cut for the service they provide and this was another example of the "Apple tax." Well, guess what. It's a pretty typical arrangement. Even the great Google charges a 30% cut for app sales in the Android Market.

Yes, but remember the fandroid rule: When Google does it, it is not evil.

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post #62 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Wouldn't it be cool if Microsoft actually made a better music and video store than Apple? It would cause Apple to redesign iTunes to work better and have a more user friendly interface. I do think iTunes could improve a lot. . . .

Bold emphasis added.

Smallwheels, I have heard others elsewhere suggest there are problems with iTunes but I never see anyone actually listing them. I don't see any problems. It's a very sophisticated application and the learning curve for a newbie might be fairly steep as is the case with many complicated programmes. But if one has used iTunes for a while, each iteration seems to get better, I find, and it doesn't take much to learn and continue as usual.

Would appreciated it if you and/or other members could point out any problems with iTunes. Being so familiar with iTunes, I may just be blind to any problems it may have.

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post #63 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You're making a joke, right? Zero existing Windows applications will work on these tablets. You know that.

THE ARTICLE EXPLICITLY SAYS THIS IS THE CASE.

Tablet's running on Intel processors will be able to run legacy apps.
post #64 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

Bold emphasis added.

Smallwheels, I have heard others elsewhere suggest there are problems with iTunes but I never see anyone actually listing them. I don't see any problems. It's a very sophisticated application and the learning curve for a newbie might be fairly steep as is the case with many complicated programmes. But if one has used iTunes for a while, each iteration seems to get better, I find, and it doesn't take much to learn and continue as usual.

Would appreciated it if you and/or other members could point out any problems with iTunes. Being so familiar with iTunes, I may just be blind to any problems it may have.

Seriously? That is the most sluggish piece of bloated software I am forced to use. Itunes' handling of its database of songs and apps is atrocious. I also get lock ups frequently and severe slowdowns where I can't arrange my apps on my iDevice's without waiting like 5-10 mintues. iOS 5 at least releases us from the slug that is iTunes. Granted, I am a power user with multiple iDevices, hundreds of Apps, and thousands of songs. My computer has a quad core processor with 8GB of memory.
post #65 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by stynkfysh View Post

Seriously? That is the most sluggish piece of bloated software I am forced to use. Itunes' handling of its database of songs and apps is atrocious. I also get lock ups frequently and severe slowdowns where I can't arrange my apps on my iDevice's without waiting like 5-10 mintues. iOS 5 at least releases us from the slug that is iTunes. Granted, I am a power user with multiple iDevices, hundreds of Apps, and thousands of songs. My computer has a quad core processor with 8GB of memory.


Agreed.

Other stuff:

You can't do a simple sync of just a few new songs. Instead, iTunes goes through all the bullsit, backing up, checking contacts, etc.

And god forbid that you pull the plug in the middle of a sync. Your phone will be thoroughly borked and you will need to wipe the drive and reinstall everything. I have never had any device that needed the drive to be reformatted and the OS reinstalled as much as my iPhone - not even Windows 3.1 running on a '486. Why can't iTunes recover elegantly from such a situation?

How about the checking for "gapless" music business? When you try to add a few gigs of music, you wait and wait and wait.

Then there is the broken album art issue: If you rip a classic album which is out of print, and iTunes supplies the album art, you end up with a motley collection of various Greatest Hits album covers instead of the one correct album cover.

Compilations are handled horribly. You end up with dozens of artists, each with one song, when using the Album view.

Oh - the iTunes library is not dynamic. If you move your stuff to a different directory, it breaks the iTunes library.

Want more? I find iTunes to be miserable, both at the paradigmatic and conceptual level, and in its execution.

BTW, I realize that the solution to most of my issues is "Just don't hold it that way". If I were to have a modest library of music, and if I were to buy everything from Apple, my problems would be fewer. If I were to allow everything to be placed into the iTunes Music directory, my problems would be fewer. If I were to load only a couple of Megs at a time, instead of sometimes loading several Gigs, my problems would be fewer. If I were to do everything only the Apple-prescribed way, instead of doing things the way that make sense for every other purpose I have, my problems with iTunes would be fewer. Unfortunately for me, I don't always think the Apple-prescribed method is optimal, and instead, I think different.
post #66 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

If itunes is a free app(which it has always been), no charge. BUT, if someone buys music via this itunes app, MS could, in the future charge 30% of that( as an in app purchase). Just like Apple wants for subscriptions.

Which they will. MS isn't stupid. This makes sense as a strategy for them. If you can't beat them, eat into their profits. Can't make money in mobile? Sue Android OEMs to get a cut. Can't make money selling music? Demand a 30% cut of every song sold on iTunes on Windows.

Apple will be forced to price up songs or accept almost no profit and hope that most users simply download music without using their iTunes PC app.
post #67 of 98
"Mary Jo Foley" sounds like "Amy Farrah Fowler"
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post #68 of 98
Monkey see monkey do. Damn Apple, why is it so successful? It must be because they charge 30% in their app store! We got to do the same!
post #69 of 98
Me too. Me too.
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post #70 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

Not so. The Kindle Reader app is certainly free, but that hasn't stopped Apple from setting up their policies to try to charge Amazon 30% for books purchased through that app. So if Apple brought a Metro version of iTunes out, it would logically follow that Microsoft could charge Apple 30% of all music/video/book purchased through it.

That's a good point but I think Apple has a solution in place with their new re-downloading service of nearly all their content at will. If it's a tablet-based system with no "classic" desktop option you will likely have another machine in which you can buy iTunes content.

They could also create a browser-based solution that will then download from within the native MetroUI-based app after you've made the purchase.
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post #71 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

Not so. The Kindle Reader app is certainly free, but that hasn't stopped Apple from setting up their policies to try to charge Amazon 30% for books purchased through that app. So if Apple brought a Metro version of iTunes out, it would logically follow that Microsoft could charge Apple 30% of all music/video/book purchased through it.

I actually think that's a crap policy on Apple's part too - there are legitimate reasons for taking a cut on apps, but if you have something where the content is well known, the distribution mechanism is NOT through Apple's servers, etc., it seems pretty rich to try to enforce the same cut.

The thought had crossed my mind, but in that scenario, Apple probably wouldn't offer iTunes at all on Metro, because Apple has no vested interest in turning Windows 8 tablets into iPods.

OTOH, if Apple is forced to pay this "Metro tax" for content purchased through iTunes, Apple would probably remove the Music Store feature from iTunes and convert it into a HTML-based Web 2.0 application. The iTunes application on Windows would then turn into just a music player and tool for syncing iDevices. Windows 8 users wouldn't be able to buy songs through iTunes.

EDIT: Haha! I didn't see solipsy's post before replying... looks like we're thinking the same thing...

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post #72 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by stynkfysh View Post

Seriously? That is the most sluggish piece of bloated software I am forced to use. . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Agreed. . . You can't do a simple sync . . ., iTunes goes through all the bullsit, backing up, checking contacts, etc. . . Unfortunately for me, I don't always think the Apple-prescribed method is optimal, and instead, I think different.

I agree that there is a time wait to syncing but I sort of expect a huge library of various media might be the cause. Touch wood, I haven't had any problems mentioned though I suspect I have lost some pod castes that I don't think I deleted. The question mark thing used to show up but haven't seen it recently. I haven't noticed any problems with my iPt and I don't have an iPhone.

Just being curious, is there something better elsewhere either for OS/iOS or other for other platforms? I am not being obstinate or argumentative. I'm just curious.

I also would add that I am possibly more patient than many and the slow sync I see as relative. I am also slimming my music down to make selection easier. But I find this in all walks in life. Accumulate and life becomes more of a struggle.

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post #73 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

If itunes is a free app(which it has always been), no charge. BUT, if someone buys music via this itunes app, MS could, in the future charge 30% of that( as an in app purchase). Just like Apple wants for subscriptions.

Not much chance of Apple porting iTunes to Metro *. Apple hasn't ported iTunes to Android which, likely, will sell more ARM tablets than Windows 8 ARM tablets...

* especially after Apple repeatedly disallowed PalmOS/WebOS devices to connect or sync to iTunes.

...smoke 'em if you got 'em!
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post #74 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"...apps designed to run on Microsoft's forthcoming Windows 8 for tablets will copy Apple's App Store business model of charging a 30 percent fee..."

Hmmmmm...exactly 30%. Sound familiar?

Apple's "teasing" banners at WWDC 2006 plus when (recently departed) Mac OS X lead, Bertrand Serlet, repeated one of the banners when he took to the stage: "Redmond, start you photocopiers" all began as just a humorous, innocuous, abstract analogy. (I'm saddened he's gone an Apple gem.)

Well, with each passing day, this is changing to become less and less of a risible analogy and more and more a direct statement of fact (and it's not so humorous anymore).

Microsoft builds its Company Stores in very close proximity to Apple Stores on the assumption (by almost everyone) that it's for symbolic reasons (like intimidation), to appear to be still relevant and to appear to be "breathing down Apple's neck."

I'm not so inclined to give Microsoft that much "credit" (if you consider it credit). I'm more inclined to surmise that it is actually a cheap way of benefitting from the very extensive research Apple's retail team does in carefully choosing locations for Apple Stores so that not one has to be shuttered (like every single Gateway store including those at dank strip malls situated right next to a "Dollar Store").

(Ever been in a Microsoft Store? All I can say is "Yawn"; whereas an Apple Store is more fun than a petting zoo.)

Apple buys expensive studies about proposed locations, plus does its own extensive (and expensive) marketing and demographic research and analysis before they carefully decide upon each retail store location. Microsoft can easily benefit from this lengthy, expensive research by simply building Microsoft Stores as close as possible to Apple Stores. And, they have "plausible deniability" by pretending it's only a symbolic move, designed as a conspicuous "show of force" to consumers prepared to switch platforms Oh! And to the media. (Microsoft's insanely jealous of all the mainstream media attention Apple and Steve Jobs is getting, whereas Apple is "Insanely Great.")

If true, this borderlines on "infringement" or stealing proprietary corporate Intellectual Property, in this writer's own personal opinion.

It's been widely reported that Microsoft is actively "poaching" highly experienced and highly trained (on Apple's dime) Apple Store employees. While I don't like it, it's a common practice and is legal. BUT! It doesn't end there! It's been reported and is a matter of public record that, after successfully poaching skilled Apple Store employees to a Microsoft Store ('round the corner, probably) the defectors, allured and mesmerized by grossly inflated new salaries (does this mean they're "bought"?) are then pressed to recruit their friends and coworkers from the Apple Stores they defected from! If this isn't illegal under some law, say, antitrust law, it sure is downright sleazy, in my own personal opinion.

And Microsoft's desire to not just be inspired by Apple or influenced by Apple but to "photocopy" Apple is evident in this next piece of probative info:
Microsoft has hired George Blankenship, a retail veteran with history at Gap and Apple, to help it identify the best spots for its upcoming retail stores. Blakenship most recently served as vice president of real estate at Apple, charged with identifying locations for its highly visibleand successfulApple Stores.

Microsoft has confirmed that it has hired Blankenship as an independent consultant, perhaps in an effort to avoid any non-compete agreement he may have with Apple. Though the company has insisted that it isn't trying to copy Apple's successful strategy, hiring a former Apple exec to find suitable locationssome right next to Apple Stores, according to Microsoft COO Kevin Turnersuggests otherwise.

Still more, Microsoft hired the treacherous, self-promoting, in my own personal opinion, Don Norman, the driving force behind Aqua, Mac OS X's Graphical User Interface, when Microsoft was developing Vista.

Unfortunately for him (as things would turn out) he was tasked with "Aqua-fying" Windows Vista a product in the good company of New Coke and the Edsel as the greatest, most conspicuous of colossal failures in the annals of product marketing. I haven't checked recently, but enough time has passed that the Vista epic saga may be included, along with the other two, in recent college Marketing textbooks (as a cautionary tale).

(Fortunately, since he "sold his principle-less soul," in my own personal opinion, and left Apple, Mac OS X's Graphical User Interface looks 1,000 x better, IMHO.)

So, when you Google "Don Norman" you'll notice what can only be described as an effort to disassociate himself with Microsoft and the unmitigated flop, Windows Vista, in my own personal opinion.

If he's cornered with the facts interviews, he seemingly goes to great lengths to downplay his involvement with Microsoft, often saying, in so many words, he was merely a consultant of little consequence.

But how would he explain the close resemblance of the Trash icon in Vista to the Trash icon in Aqua/Mac OS X? Only the merest of coincidences, I'm sure.

Microsoft's intent to no less than "photocopy" Apple becomes clearer when you consider the fact that there is an infinite universe of designs possible for a trash icon or wastebasket or "recycle bin" icon. The only limit is the imagination. Oh! There's our answer! Microsoft has no imagination, no taste and is forced to transplant it from Apple.

(Oh! My bad. Microsoft's icon is completely different, as Vista's is a "recycle bin.")

But! Consider the company we're talking about here; they seem to be immune to shame. (With a company founded by someone who still boasts about "dumpster diving" in his youth to steal printouts of code laboriously toiled over by someone else, this should not come as unexpected. And the dumpster diving "point of personal pride" apparently was no mere "isolated incident," but the first known example of pathological thievery, in my own personal opinion, and a corporate culture Microsoft's co-founder inculcated throughout the company. See: What's nicknamed "The San Francisco Canyon" lawsuit. Pay particular attention to the statement "thousands of lines of 'significant programming code' for video acceleration").

As to Microsoft's "photocopied" online "app store," I hope no one from Microsoft reads this, but to "prime the pump" they might want to consider a schedule for reaching 30% over a period. As just one example, for every new app, Microsoft takes 15% for one week (7 day period); 20% after two weeks; 25% after one month; 30% after six weeks and thereafter.

After 30% is reached, nothing would be charged for any of the (sometimes very frequent) free updates and bug fixes to apps, of course, but would apply to sales of new milestone versions that are not free (e.g. "First Person Zombie Shooter II.")

Apple might consider something similar.

That timeworn Marketing phenomenon where shoppers will buy significantly more SKUs of a product priced at 99¢ than the same product priced at $1, has changed little (if at all) over time. Contemporary studies still show that this buyer behavior is just as alive-and-well in 2011 as ever.

I guess "metal" currency is not considered "real money" by consumers, but paper currency is even one dollar. This might explain why song purchases on iTunes have dropped since Apple moved to $1.29 per song instead of that magical 99¢.

The "value-added" benefits of the $1.29 versions are triple (at least) than the 99¢ versions, but this seems to be lost on average consumers. (And, being more than 99¢, the 30¢ higher $1.29 is "real money." One would think that it wouldn't make very much of a difference, but many aspects of costumer behavior are inscrutable. We have to live with them and adapt to them.)

The value-added benefits of $1.29 tracks are worth at least triple the value of 99¢ tracks, but the people I know care nothing about (or can't appreciate any palpable difference) between a 128kbps audio file verses even a 320kbps "lossless" audio file. Speaking of "audio files," "audiophiles" can appreciate the difference. : )

Steve Jobs was right (of course) about 99¢ being the "sweet spot," and consumers would much rather own their purchased music than "rent" it from an online music subscription service (no matter how many songs they could "rent"), and of course he was proven right yet again <Yawn>.

(I can fully appreciate the $1.29 versions and have always bought those when available. Now, I think the vast majority of "tracks" on iTunes are $1.29 with no other choice.)

If I remember correctly, Apple had to move to $1.29 to keep the record labels happy and prevent them from possibly "pulling out." (If anybody knows the accurate account, please teach me.)

I don't know much about the business relationships between the record labels and Apple/iTunes, but if they would agree, Apple could have two "buy" buttons in iTunes List View: one for the popular (yet crappy, IMHO) 99¢ quality, and, next to it, a second button for the "audiophile" $1.29 version of the same song.

"But, if now given this choice, and most everyone gravitates to the 99¢ versions (PAH! Pocket change! Now a dollar bill, that's something), wouldn't Apple and the record labels make less money?"
Probably just the opposite.

Volume sales might more than make up for the 30¢ difference. Just ask the world's largest retailer (at last check, anyway, Wal*Mart is the fifth most valuable company in the world...after AAPL rained on their parade. Wal*Mart has been #1 and #2 in the past) who achieved their lofty "perch" not by maximizing profit margins, but by making them impossibly slight and selling cheap products in volumes that boggle the mind.

Wal*Mart is so powerful in fact, that they can "blackmail," in my own personal opinion, food companies into changing their ingredients!, like lowering trans fats or sugar content or else it's "bye, bye shelf space." (Sending chills up product makers' spines.)

Michelle Obama got on Wal*Mart's case, prompting them to start doing this. Speaking personally, it's been reported that Wal*Mart plans to pressure Kraft/Nabisco to cut the amount of sugar or HFCS in many of its products including my favorite cookie, Oreos!

You can do almost anything you want to me, but DON'T %#&$ with my Oreos!



(BTW, the four-letter-word was "mess.")

I don't care if it's "low-brow"; I make it no secret that Oreos are my favorite cookie!

But, back on track, 99¢ x Volume might exceed revenues and profits of $1.29 x Volume.

Apple could very easily market test this.

< Click (or touch) him and I know you'll never believe me but this is NOT an Apple Store.

The "photocopying" has grown so audacious that the lit signs over the entrance of every Microsoft retail store contain no words, no letters (I hope they didn't spend too much on that rope line), just a symbol or "logo," (if it even qualifies). But it is only the merest of coincidences ("But we didn't have room!") that Apple Store signs also contain no words, no letters, just a monochromatic logo except it's a shape of an object that dates back at least to The Garden of Eden (B.C.) and is instantly recognized in any language and in any country on Earth.

I have a sneaking suspicion this variation of the Windows logo will become the logo for the whole company, to "communicate" "Microsoft" without using letters or words. They may even use it alone, without the word "Microsoft"....almost...like the way Apple's brand "name" is actually a silhouetted shape with no letters or words! But, OH!, how it communicates!

You'd sooner recognize something meaningful in a Jackson Pollock painting or a Rorschach ink blot than Microsoft's new...thing.

Curious: This and this...IDK???

Oh, I'm not suggesting Microsoft is SO stupid as to ditch the "Microsoft" brand name, recognized by billions the world over, costing billions to promote, and is an intangible asset worth billions.

I'm suggesting that the letters M-i-c-r-o-s-o-f-t and the word they comprise might now be communicated via a logo or symbol (Mmmmmm?...kind of like Apple?). The problem for them is that the symbol is abstract and doesn't communicate the word "Microsoft" at all! And necessarily colored, the logo cannot be rendered as a silhouette (unless a perfect square is expected to stand for "Microsoft")

"Artist" Prince already tried this, but gave up when his efforts didn't work ("were an abject failure" is more precise) and even became a widespread topic of ridicule and mockery. Hey Monkey Boy, you really need to consult Prince ASAP!

IBM's venerable logo was designed by the amazing, legendary Paul Rand, graphic designer of hundreds of works including the logos of NeXT, American Express, Westinghouse, ABC (TV), UPS, Walt Disney Pictures and countless others, and was even the photographic subject of an Apple "Think Different" ad and poster (a high honor in my book), AND was lauded by Steve Jobs (so any of you who think Steve Jobs is all arrogance and no humility, Think Different).

Uh-oh, could this one by Paul Rand have inspired the original iPod's iconic design? IDK, but I doubt it. (Just funnin'.)

The late Paul Rand's IBM logo with its unique vertical black (or empty) stripes across each letter is so widely recognized that it has been shown that people don't see three letters and read them; they see one iconic logo that stands for "IBM," paying no attention to the individual letters.

This is not unlike when you see a stop sign. Do you read the letters S-T-O-P, or do you recognize it in a gestalt fashion, taking in the octagonal shape, its reflective "Fire Engine Red" color, and white capital letters you no longer consciously read?

And, Uh-oh, Could THIS released in 1982, discontinued in 1984 have inspired the ID of the original Macintosh? IDK, but it was a great Industrial Design, and I'm fine with Apple taking cues from it (if they did).

I don't think Apple did, but if they took any cues from the Vectrex, it only inspired them, and there's nothing wrong with that. The original Mac is a very different looking machine.

Drawing inspiration from talented people and their works was absolutely essential in creating some of histories greatest artists, thinkers and inventors. Would there have been a Plato had there been no Socrates? What's not OK is brazen plagiarism or "photocopying."

Nike's original logo was a stylized presentation of their spelled-out name. Nike's "swoosh" logo was designed by college student, Carolyn Davidson, for $2/hour or a total of $35.

But, unlike Microsoft (or Prince), Nike took a prudent approach. After the "swoosh" was designed, Nike continued to use their textual brand name/logo with the "swoosh" symbol below it. This associated the word and brand "Nike" with the new symbol. Then Nike weaned consumers off their logo "in letters" and on to the "swoosh" logo alone.

Yet the abstract "swoosh," or whatever you want to call it, is problematic.

Even internally, Nike employees refer to it as either "The Swoosh" or "The Wing" (I guess we were all supposed to know it represents a wing of the winged Greek goddess for victory, "Nike"). It is abstract, but is very successful at invoking the Nike brand without letters or words (after a lot of money was spent to achieve this).

Target has taken a similar approach, using its "wordless" brand logo. But their logo resembles its own name, like Apple's.

Yet, if you were to take Apple's silhouette logo and Nike's to a place in the world where people aren't aware of Nike and showed people both logos, my money's on them identifying Apple's logo that stands for an object with a name, not Nike's logo. (I can picture people squinting at the Nike logo, turning it sideways and upside down before they finally give up.)

But you get an A for effort, Microsoft. Good luck. Seriously.

post #75 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullymobile View Post

Monkey see monkey do. Damn Apple, why is it so successful? It must be because they charge 30% in their app store! We got to do the same!

Creepy. Next Microsoft will announce a new spaceship-like campus for Redmond.
post #76 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Creepy. Next Microsoft will announce a new spaceship-like campus for Redmond.

Just so long as they don't announce a rectangular building with rounded corners.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #77 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

The thought had crossed my mind, but in that scenario, Apple probably wouldn't offer iTunes at all on Metro, because Apple has no vested interest in turning Windows 8 tablets into iPods.

OTOH, if Apple is forced to pay this "Metro tax" for content purchased through iTunes, Apple would probably remove the Music Store feature from iTunes and convert it into a HTML-based Web 2.0 application. The iTunes application on Windows would then turn into just a music player and tool for syncing iDevices. Windows 8 users wouldn't be able to buy songs through iTunes.

EDIT: Haha! I didn't see solipsy's post before replying... looks like we're thinking the same thing...

Agreed with you and solipsism that Apple would never actually go for giving MS a 30% cut if they did decide to do a Metro version of iTunes (and also that doing streaming and NOT offering purchase through a Metro iTunes is a work-around), but the entire 30% cut of content sold through apps just seems pretty dubious when the same content can be sold through a web page or other avenue as well, doesn't use the OS providers distribution mechanisms, etc. Seems like an overreach.

The Kindle app is just another route to get a book (or was, anyway) outside of the Amazon web store or their own Kindle reader devices, so Apple screwing them because they are competing on book sales is just a pile of crap. How about offer at least a comparable price, equivalent selection, and allow your own books to work on multiple platforms? As it stands, I can but a Kindle book generally for less, use it on the Kindle, computer, or iPad, and find a lot of stuff that just isn't available on iBooks. Doing a 30% content charge to try to prevent people from finding the better priced stuff is just lame.
post #78 of 98
So do you guys drag out DED and his crazy Anti-MS BS when you think Microsoft is going to make a comeback, or has done something right.

DED is a effing loon of the first order and publishing his trash makes AI look lame.
post #79 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSTER BOT View Post

No, actually the article says that there WILL be x86 tablets released: "While PC makers can continue to sell x86 tablets, these devices, ranging from Tablet PC to UMPCs to Slate PC to convertible notebooks with tablet features, have never sold well in the past due to their performance and efficiency compromises and their significant cost premium over modern ARM tablets."

But what if Windows 8 actually runs WELL on x86 hardware? It runs remarkably on the dev preview tablets out in the wild, and those are only prototypes.

And according to Renee James from Intel, "[Windows 8 traditional] means that our customers, or anyone who has an Intel-based or an x86-based product, will be able to run either Windows 7 mode or Windows 8 mode," she said. "They'll run all of their old applications, all of their old files there'll be no issue."

So Intel, which is the King of chip makers is going nuts right now trying to shrink some form of x86 down to compete with ARM. I think for tablets this time next year they will be there. There whole "thin and light" stuff is pretty good now. They 1-2 revs coming out before Windows 8. This time next year, Windows 8 tablets on Intel's latest x86 chip for tablets = ability to run most x86 apps.

The line is going to blur between quad core ARM chips and Intel's latest attempt to shrink, the deciding factor may just be the many thousands of x86 apps out there now.
post #80 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

For consumer PCs, Windows 8 will ship as essentially Windows 7 overlaid with a new layer of Metro animated graphics capable of running new Metro apps. On standard x86 PCs, this will allow users to run both existing Windows apps as well as downloading new Metro apps from Microsoft's new Windows 8 app market.

The 'Metro' interface is not an overlay. It is the new shell (though I think the process name is still labeled as "explorer.exe"). The classic UI (in my mind) is the new Program Manager. It's also technically an app since it's not loaded by default. Also I'm betting (judging from some leaked build shots) that the standard shell will get an update (for example a Jensen Harris presentation at BUILD showed a different taskbar style).
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