or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Well-known iPhone ‘jailbreak’ hacker visits Apple campus for unknown reasons
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Well-known iPhone ‘jailbreak’ hacker visits Apple campus for unknown reasons

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 
iPhone Dev Team prominent hacker MuscleNerd confirms visit to Apples headquarters in Cupertino, California, sparking speculation that the iPhone maker may be interested in hiring another figure of the unofficial iOS jailbreaking community.

Not known by his real name, but very popular with iOS device users for his iOS hacking work as part of the iPhone Dev Team, MuscleNerd attended Intels IDF Conference in San Francisco.

The hacker, BusinessInsider reported , made a visit to Apples campus in Cupertino during that period, although the purpose of his visit is not known at this time.

MuscleNerd posted an image on his Twitter account, currently followed by over 230,000 people, showing a t-shirt that reads: I visited the Apple campus. But thats all Im allowed to say. Also noticeable in the same image is an Apple nametag showing his screen name, Muscle Nerd, instead of the real name.

Accompanying the image is a short tweet detailing the visit: well this afternoon sure was fun (what a great company!), but the hacker doesnt go into further specifics regarding a possible employment with Apple.



This news comes just a few weeks after iOS hacker Comex confirmed his new status as a future Apple intern.

19-year old Nicholas Comex Allegra, also a well-known persona in the iOS universe, was offered an internship with Apple recently. Known for his efforts into devising and developing new ways of jailbreaking various generations of iOS devices, including the iPad 2, Allegra confirmed he would not pursue such hacking endeavors in the future.

Comex and MuscleNerd, single-handedly or working with other iPhone Dev Team members, have provided in recent years various jailbreak solutions for iOS devices such as iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and Apple TV.

Such a procedure, legal in the USA under 2010 DMCA, is meant to allow users to gain full access to the operating system and install unsupported iOS applications that wouldnt be otherwise available in the App Store and tweak current existing apps without Apples permission.

Apple however doesnt support the procedure and maintains the fact that jailbreaking iOS devices leads to voiding the products warranty. The companys effort to block jailbreaking attempts and patch the security holes that permitted them has recently been praised by the iPhone Dev Team in a short blog post following Steve Jobs resignation as CEO last month. We loved the chase! Good luck, Steve, the Dev Team noted at the time.

Despite its continued opposition to iOS jailbreaking, the company has also recently hired Peter Hajas, an iOS developer known for his work on an alternative notification system for jailbroken iPhones. His innovative solutions were demoed before Apple introduced a totally revamped notification system that will be available to users in the forthcoming iOS 5 mobile OS version.

Besides jailbreaking, the iPhone Dev Team is also responsible for offering iPhone unlocking solutions to smartphone users interested in bypassing Apples protocols that keep the handset locked to a specific carrier.

Should MuscleNerd join Comex and pursue a career with Apple, the jailbreaking community may be significantly crippled in the months to come, BusinessInsider notes.

Until now, all current iOS 5 beta versions have been jailbroken with various software solutions including the ones offered by the iPhone Dev Team. Apple is expected to launch the final iOS 5 version in early October with the iPhone 5 release following shortly after that.
post #2 of 38
Is this an "If you can't beat 'em, get them to join you" strategy or is there a real need for these maverick (or rogue, depending on your slant) coders?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #3 of 38
It seems that these guys are really good at finding security holes in iOS. That would certainly make them of some value to Apple.
post #4 of 38
What if Apple were to officially support a jail-brake option? I know that sounds like a contradiction - let me explain: If Apple allowed Jail-braking as a user option giving complete control over what they install on their iPhones, with a warning that doing so would open the door to malware, instability, and security issues, then iPhones would have the best of both worlds. The warning could also stipulate that if Jail-braking is chosen and things go wrong, then the only support that Apple would offer is complete re-installation of iOS, and that the safety of user data is their own responsibility.

I expect I am missing something obvious here that would make this a stupid idea (hey, it's late and I'm v tired!).
"If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything" Robert Zemeckis/Bob Gale/Robert_E._Lee
Reply
"If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything" Robert Zemeckis/Bob Gale/Robert_E._Lee
Reply
post #5 of 38
My guess is that future jailbreaks may be few and far between.
post #6 of 38
There will be plenty of new people who'd join the iphone Dev or start their own group to jailbreak the iOS devices, the demand is just too big for that not to happen.

But I do agree with these hiring decisions, these guys are probably slightly better than some of the people working on security of iOS devices right now.
post #7 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

What if Apple were to officially support a jail-brake option? I know that sounds like a contradiction - let me explain: If Apple allowed Jail-braking as a user option giving complete control over what they install on their iPhones, with a warning that doing so would open the door to malware, instability, and security issues, then iPhones would have the best of both worlds.

That's not the Apple way. They don't operate like that.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #8 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

These guys are probably slightly better than some of the people working on security of iOS devices right now.

There's no such thing as slightly better when it comes to OS security. It's black and white. They can hack what Apple releases. Apple want to release something that at least these guys can't hack.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #9 of 38
At this point, the only thing I really really need from jailbreaking is unlock.

Sbsettings is nice, but I could live without it. Free my phone apple from AT&T locks!
post #10 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

What if Apple were to officially support a jail-brake option?

(hey, it's late and I'm v tired!).



Then get to bed and come back tomorrow to wipe the egg off your face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eswinson View Post

My guess is that future jailbreaks may be few and far between.

My guess is that they continue. But as the legitimate utility of a jailbreak is becoming tremendously less with every update Apple puts out, eventually the only reason to jailbreak will be, as the uninformed haters currently say, "to pirate applications". And eventually there might truly not be "a single jailbreaker who hasn't pirated an app."

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #11 of 38
Well, at the very least, hopefully this will shutup those that always ranted about the jb devs being a bunch of thieving degenerates. The more of these guys go to work for Apple and contribute to the haters daily experience the less they can allow themselves to irrationally hate them.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #12 of 38
Sounds like Apple is hiring jailbreakers to battle jailbreakers. Jailbreaking became a lot less interesting for many people when AT&T started cracking down on tethering.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply
post #13 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by eswinson View Post

My guess is that future jailbreaks may be few and far between.

It's the end of jailbreak for all you know. But it would mean more app revenue for Apple and the developers. It's a good thing for me as a shareholder too.
post #14 of 38
Would be amusing if these guys infiltrated the jailbreaking community and patched holes as the exploits were in the making.
post #15 of 38
<Darth Vader>Nooooooooo!</Darth> not MuscleNerd!!!
post #16 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Is this an "If you can't beat 'em, get them to join you" strategy or is there a real need for these maverick (or rogue, depending on your slant) coders?

Both, indubitably.
post #17 of 38
Just curious, when Apple hires guys like this ... Are they ever heard from again?
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
Reply
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
Reply
post #18 of 38
Tell that to the millions of people unlocking iPhones to operate on different carriers (myself included). Jail breaking is an essential step to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Sounds like Apple is hiring jailbreakers to battle jailbreakers. Jailbreaking became a lot less interesting for many people when AT&T started cracking down on tethering.
post #19 of 38
Not sure that is true. Apple doesn't make a lot of profit from App sales. It isn't part of its plan. Apple's mostly trying to sell hardware. Many people buy iPhones (thereby making Apple a profit) to jailbreak and unlock the phone to use on other networks. Crushing that ability ultimately kills sales.

Further, developers on iOS already make far more then on competing platforms. People who download illegal software, where not buying it anyway, so I doubt there is much lost revenue there.

I am a shareholder as well, and I have a jailbroken phone. I have bought a lot of software on the phone. I wouldn't' have an iPhone at all if I couldn't jailbreak it to unlock it. Therefore in my case being able to jailbreak the phone made Apple money in my case.



Quote:
Originally Posted by IronTed View Post

It's the end of jailbreak for all you know. But it would mean more app revenue for Apple and the developers. It's a good thing for me as a shareholder too.
post #20 of 38
These guys know iPhone inside and out. How can you not want them on your team. That's dedication and skill and I'm sure it's much more to do with creating a stronger, safer user experience than just "battling jail breaking".
post #21 of 38
I jailbreak solely for the unlock, and a few applications available only to the jailbreakers. Lockinfo, iFile and a growl app
post #22 of 38
: If you want to work at Apple, show them that you can beat them!
: Yeah, corporations like intrepid employees.
post #23 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

It seems that these guys are really good at finding security holes in iOS. That would certainly make them of some value to Apple.

Exactly, although I'd expect their motivation might be somewhat diminished if their reward is a pay-check instead of an accolade for giving users more freedom. Also, when you are playing the defensive, you have to find every vulnerability; when you are playing the offensive, you only have to find 1.

I think the better solution here is to take away the reasons that people install custom firmware. Make iOS development cheaper or free. Allow people to do things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my2Fn2waJGM

Imagine that with Airplay to an HDTV. Right now they don't allow apps with interpreted code but all they have to do is warn people that they use interpreted code and you use them at your own risk. Lastly there's customisation and I think they could be a little more flexible on this front. Even have an official theme SDK where you can adjust the Dock, sounds, icons etc. and allow it be reset with a click.
post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Not sure that is true. Apple doesn't make a lot of profit from App sales. It isn't part of its plan. Apple's mostly trying to sell hardware. Many people buy iPhones (thereby making Apple a profit) to jailbreak and unlock the phone to use on other networks. Crushing that ability ultimately kills sales.

Further, developers on iOS already make far more then on competing platforms. People who download illegal software, where not buying it anyway, so I doubt there is much lost revenue there.

I am a shareholder as well, and I have a jailbroken phone. I have bought a lot of software on the phone. I wouldn't' have an iPhone at all if I couldn't jailbreak it to unlock it. Therefore in my case being able to jailbreak the phone made Apple money in my case.

Apple App purchases are projected to be around $3 billion in 2011.
Apple takes in 30% of that figure for close to a billion dollars.
I'm not sure of the overhead of Apple not having to develop most of these apps themselves, but I imagine it's close to $0.

$1 billion is a lot in my book...
post #25 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

What if Apple were to officially support a jail-brake option? I know that sounds like a contradiction - let me explain: If Apple allowed Jail-braking as a user option giving complete control over what they install on their iPhones, with a warning that doing so would open the door to malware, instability, and security issues, then iPhones would have the best of both worlds. The warning could also stipulate that if Jail-braking is chosen and things go wrong, then the only support that Apple would offer is complete re-installation of iOS, and that the safety of user data is their own responsibility.

I expect I am missing something obvious here that would make this a stupid idea (hey, it's late and I'm v tired!).

IF Apple supported jail-breaking and something went wrong Apple would be blamed regardless of the warning. Some idiot would sue probably claiming that since Apple allowed jail-breaking that meant that there was an implied endorsement hence negating the warning / disclaimer.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Right now they don't allow apps with interpreted code but all they have to do is warn people that they use interpreted code and you use them at your own risk. Lastly there's customisation and I think they could be a little more flexible on this front. Even have an official theme SDK where you can adjust the Dock, sounds, icons etc. and allow it be reset with a click.

That is way too complicated. The iPhone needs to be fully usable by grandma and the toddlers.

Techies and nerds are NOT the target audience. They think different, but Apple is now fully mainstream. It needs to keep its products fully simplified.

Capabilities of the iDevices need to be evaluated by referencing scared old ladies. If a capability might cause them to have to think, it should be rejected. That has worked VERY well for Apple's stockholders. I can't see Apple killing the golden goose for the sake of a minority who think different from the mainstream. Years ago? Sure. Now? No way.
post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by angryshortguy View Post

Apple App purchases are projected to be around $3 billion in 2011.
Apple takes in 30% of that figure for close to a billion dollars.
I'm not sure of the overhead of Apple not having to develop most of these apps themselves, but I imagine it's close to $0.

$1 billion is a lot in my book...

The current meme is that Apple just barely breaks even from the App Store.
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

There will be plenty of new people who'd join the iphone Dev or start their own group to jailbreak the iOS devices, the demand is just too big for that not to happen.

But I do agree with these hiring decisions, these guys are probably slightly better than some of the people working on security of iOS devices right now.


It takes more skill to build something then to find holes in the build. An architect can build a building but me knowing nothing of the trade can find find dozens of flaws to exploit.

All these hackers did is find a small out of line pixel in a masterpiece picture. Pay the guy a small consulting fee to find out what that 1% knowledge he knows about the OS as a whole then move on
post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Not sure that is true. Apple doesn't make a lot of profit from App sales. It isn't part of its plan. Apple's mostly trying to sell hardware. Many people buy iPhones (thereby making Apple a profit) to jailbreak and unlock the phone to use on other networks. Crushing that ability ultimately kills sales.

Further, developers on iOS already make far more then on competing platforms. People who download illegal software, where not buying it anyway, so I doubt there is much lost revenue there.

I am a shareholder as well, and I have a jailbroken phone. I have bought a lot of software on the phone. I wouldn't' have an iPhone at all if I couldn't jailbreak it to unlock it. Therefore in my case being able to jailbreak the phone made Apple money in my case.


What other network are you going to use it on? T-mobile with it's slower speed? There's a small, very small, amount of iPhones on tmobile network. This is evident in their desire to have the phone.

If you couldn't jailbreak your phone, who would you go to? Obsolete blackberry? malware ridden android? Inconsistent non backward compatible windows?
Fact is iPhones are the best phones out ther jail broken or not. I think if you couldn't jailbreak you'd still be an iPhone owner
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Tell that to the millions of people unlocking iPhones to operate on different carriers (myself included). Jail breaking is an essential step to that.

No, Apple already sells a phone for that. No need for a Jailbreak.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC603LL/A
post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

No, Apple already sells a phone for that. No need for a Jailbreak.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC603LL/A

Why the hell would I pay $649? I can definitely understand his motivation... if you're traveling overseas and still want to use your iPhone, a quick jailbreak + unlock is a hellofalot more efficient and cheaper solution than buying a $649 iPhone from Apple.
post #32 of 38
Embrace. Extend. Extinguish.
post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Well, at the very least, hopefully this will shutup those that always ranted about the jb devs being a bunch of thieving degenerates. The more of these guys go to work for Apple and contribute to the haters daily experience the less they can allow themselves to irrationally hate them.

Haters gonna hate.

Those haters are simply parroting the party line. They will direct their hate at whatever Apple tells them to hate.
post #34 of 38
Having 50 billion dollars not only means never having to say you're sorry, but that you can hire your enemies rather than fight them.

But "MuscleNerd"? Really? Is he? Can we f*ck as well as hire him?
post #35 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

If Apple allowed Jail-braking as a user option giving complete control over what they install on their iPhones, with a warning that doing so would open the door to malware, instability, and security issues, then iPhones would have the best of both worlds. The warning could also stipulate that if Jail-braking is chosen and things go wrong, then the only support that Apple would offer is complete re-installation of iOS, and that the safety of user data is their own responsibility..

Legally Apple can't prohibit jail breaking as an option. But legally they don't have to support any device that has been jailbroken. not even helping to restore it. So they don't. (in the US at least, other countries might still ban jail breaking)

More or less the same as you are describing.

As for the t-shirt etc. I would believe it if it wasn't for the fact that anyone can get to the shop with no fuss and buy that shirt. It proves nothing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Just look at the leaps from iPhone to iPhone 3G to iPhone 3GS. None of them compare to the leap to iPhone 4 from the 3GS, imho. And I strongly suspect that has something to do with the iPhone facing a more competitive market.

That phone and its price would more appealing if the carriers weren't allowed to charge the same rates for a fully paid phone as a subsidized one. I mean they claim you are paying off what they paid on your behalf a little each month but they aren't paying anything so why should they get that extra $15-20 every month

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #36 of 38
MuscleNerd has no intention of working for Apple
Unlike many hackers, he has a well paying job
Nothing wrong with him touring the campus of a company he respects
post #37 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardhowson View Post

MuscleNerd has no intention of working for Apple
Unlike many hackers, he has a well paying job
Nothing wrong with him touring the campus of a company he respects

Apple implanted a chip in him while he wasn't looking, to spy on the Dev Team!
post #38 of 38
All your devs are belong to us


Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

That is way too complicated. The iPhone needs to be fully usable by grandma and the toddlers.

Techies and nerds are NOT the target audience. They think different, but Apple is now fully mainstream. It needs to keep its products fully simplified.

Capabilities of the iDevices need to be evaluated by referencing scared old ladies. If a capability might cause them to have to think, it should be rejected. That has worked VERY well for Apple's stockholders. I can't see Apple killing the golden goose for the sake of a minority who think different from the mainstream. Years ago? Sure. Now? No way.

This is so, so, so true... well said.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Well-known iPhone ‘jailbreak’ hacker visits Apple campus for unknown reasons
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Well-known iPhone ‘jailbreak’ hacker visits Apple campus for unknown reasons