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Samsung planning legal offensive against Apple's unreleased iPhone 5

post #1 of 155
Thread Starter 
Samsung has already planned out an aggressive legal strategy to block sales of Apple's unannounced iPhone 5 when it arrives in Korea, a new report claims.

Insiders at the South Korean electronics giant indicated to the Korea Times that the company plans to immediately take its legal battle to the next generation of products when Apple attempts to release the iPhone 5 in Korea.

"Just after the arrival of the iPhone 5 here, Samsung plans to take Apple to court here for its violation of Samsungs wireless technology related patents," said an anonymous Samsung senior executive.

"For as long as Apple does not drop mobile telecommunications functions, it would be impossible for it to sell its i-branded products without using our patents. We will stick to a strong stance against Apple during the lingering legal fights," he added.

Another executive with the company highlighted alternative strategies that its legal team has planned. "We are taking different tactics since we are quite confident," he said. "If Samsung wins in Germany that will give us a big breakthrough and so will other envisioned efforts against such products as the iPhone 5."

In June, a U.S. judge denied a request by Samsung to see Apple's next-generation iPhone. The company had filed the motion as a counter to Apple's request to see unreleased products by Samsung. Apple had, however, restricted its request to already-announced products, while Samsung was asking to see devices that Apple has yet to announce.

Samsung officials also told the publication that Apple's fifth-generation iPhone would add near-field communication (NFC) technology to introduce e-wallet functionality. Apple itself has given no indication that it will add NFC capability to the next iPhone, though rumors have swirled about the feature, with one recent report claiming that it will arrive either on the fifth or sixth generation of the handset.

Employees of the company, which doubles as a rival and supplier to Apple, have leaked information regarding upcoming Apple products in the past. Last week, a former Samsung manager admitted to leaking information on the unreleased iPad while working for the company in 2009.

The patent war between Apple and Samsung has quickly escalated since the iPhone maker fired the first shot in April. At least 23 lawsuits are pending between the two companies across a number of countries. Apple has seen a few early victories against Samsung, including a permanent ban preventing its rival from selling the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet in Germany.
post #2 of 155
This is getting childish. It's been childish for a while. Apple should move away from Samsung and be done with it. It's like a disfunctional divorce where both parties hate each other, yet they still like ####ing each other
post #3 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by marokero View Post

This is getting childish. It's been childish for a while. Apple should move away from Samsung and be done with it. It's like a disfunctional divorce where both parties hate each other, yet they still like ####ing each other

You miss the point. Samsung is infringing on Apple's IP. Apple puts effort into innovating, then others copy it lock stock and barrel. That simply is not fair.

If you had invented something and others ripped you off, you would be upset as well.
post #4 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



"For as long as Apple does not drop mobile telecommunications functions, it would be impossible for it to sell its i-branded products without using our patents. We will stick to a strong stance against Apple during the lingering legal fights," he added.

The implied premise there is that the telecommunications functions require their patents. But such patents as become part of telcom standards are required to uphold FRAND principles. In this case, they can not withhold licensing them for Fair Reasonable and NonDiscriminatory fees.

In many cases (I believe), such fees are covered in the parts Apple buys.

So I do not see any real threat in these suits. Samsung is just blowing a lot of hot air.
post #5 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

The implied premise there is that the telecommunications functions require their patents. But such patents as become part of telcom standards are required to uphold FRAND principles. In this case, they can not withhold licensing them for Fair Reasonable and NonDiscriminatory fees.

In many cases (I believe), such fees are covered in the parts Apple buys.

So I do not see any real threat in these suits. Samsung is just blowing a lot of hot air.

I agree with this.
post #6 of 155
Bring it on!!!!!
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post #7 of 155
Has Samsung been thinking of their own image and customer base in Korea?

If Samsung do somehow (miraculously) win this fight to block iPhone 5, will this indirectly piss off Korean Apple fans who might also buy Samsung products?

I can understand Apples case of an obvious rip off from Samsung of the iPhone and iPad but would it work to Samsungs advantage and branding if they block the iPhone5? Be careful Samsung, your pride is getting in the way of your business sense.
post #8 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

You miss the point. Samsung is infringing on Apple's IP. Apple puts effort into innovating, then others copy it lock stock and barrel. That simply is not fair.

If you had invented something and others ripped you off, you would be upset as well.

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world? I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly. Why do you think that is? Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of? If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.
post #9 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by moustache View Post

Has Samsung been thinking of their own image and customer base in Korea?

If Samsung do somehow (miraculously) win this fight to block iPhone 5, will this indirectly piss off Korean Apple fans who might also buy Samsung products?

I can understand Apples case of an obvious rip off from Samsung of the iPhone and iPad but would it work to Samsungs advantage and branding if they block the iPhone5? Be careful Samsung, your pride is getting in the way of your business sense.

And likewise, Apple taking legal action against Samsung might piss off Samsung fans into buying less Apple products? Bet this argument is taking place right now over on samsunginsider.com
post #10 of 155
Quote:
said an anonymous Samsung senior executive.

Wow. Sure is putting his "money" where his mouth is.


Samsung likes to talk big.

But they have yet to nail anything on Apple nor even defend itself against what Apple throws at it (e.g. injunction against Galaxy Tab in Germany) despite all their "boasting".

In this case, they don't even know what they will be suing about but have started yelling already.

I find it hard to believe Apple didn't check the patent portfolio of it's biggest "frienemy" while designing their products.
You can expect counter suits too, Apple's patent portfolio has grow quite a bit over the years. *cough*Nortel*cough*.

Worst case = MAD

Their competitors will of course be laughing their ass off if that happens.
post #11 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world? I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly. Why do you think that is? Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of? If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.

This pretty much, though I don't think Apple controls the majority any longer. That might explain their insecurity. A shrinking market share means they fear becoming sieged from all sides.
post #12 of 155
Samsung needs to do something, ANYTHING, to keep from getting crushed. Even if it's wildly irrational. It just might fool some of their shareholders and keep their top management in place.

It'll be funny to see them get smacked down again. If Samsung really wants to sue Apple over basic wireless technology, they'll need to sue every other handset manufacturer that uses that technology. Basic technology patents are encumbered by "fair use" clauses. They're designed to prevent patent-holders from choosing who gets to use their patents and who doesn't.


Who knows? Maybe they'll start citing Star Trek and Star Wars as prior art. They've already tried using other sci-fi movies like 2001: A Space Odyssey

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post #13 of 155
Corporate litigation is way out of hand from both directions. It's getting kind of ridiculous and in the end it just ties up the court systems.
post #14 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack99 View Post

This pretty much, though I don't think Apple controls the majority any longer. That might explain their insecurity. A shrinking market share means they fear becoming sieged from all sides.

Android's ultimate fate is already being revealed. Strip out everything but the kernel. Get rid of the "profit layer" that shows AdMob ads, cut out the weed patch Market, and use alternate search engines. Like the Grid 10 does. Like Amazon will soon be doing. Like Baidu is doing in China. The ultimate expression of "open."

Android handsets generate only $6-$10 per user for Google. Per year. Microsoft makes at least $5 per copy of Android from patent licensing fees. Do the math.

Oh, and it's looking rather grim for Fragdroid in the iPad and iPad clone market. Microsoft will snap up all the crumbs that Apple leaves behind. Windows 8 Tablet is looking pretty good. And Oracle isn't suing Microsoft for illegally copying Java.

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post #15 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world?

Yes if you have a valid patent to novel technology.
Quote:
I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly.

Actually over the years there has been a bit of suing amongst auto makers. What is notable here is that auto manufacturing is an old technology many of the applicable patents have expired by now.
Quote:
Why do you think that is?

I don't think it is, rather you appear to be mis informed.
Quote:
Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of?

Not even close, Apple might have a quarter of the market. In any event they have a legitimate concern about having their technology ripped off.
Quote:
If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.

Are you a complete idiot, democrat or just dysfunctional in some way? That is exactly what Apple did, they released a superior product. They aren't hiding behind anybody they are rather going after the ripoff artist at Samsung. What you should be asking is why is Samsung so lazy that they can develop their own technology and user interfaces.
post #16 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world? I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly. Why do you think that is? Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of? If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.

Please educate yourself. Go on a 101 course on patentlaw and then come back on the subject.

-You can´t patent a car. And a car isnt just one patent but a large bunch of possible patents that have been added to the idea of a wheel for decades. You cant patent and idea but a way to solve a problemin some way. You can still usually invest time to solve the problem in another way so you dont infringe on a particular patent. Otherwise you might license the patent if you dont want to invest in developing other ways to do something.

- You can patent an automatic transmisson if you made a breaktrough in r&d and made it 30% cheaper to produce because you made the construction so that you can leave some parts that where previously needed or you made it more efficient so that the you save 25% more energy. This might still thread on another patent but you made it significantly better or it might be so significantly different that it doesnt thread on existing patents. This just all depends on the current patents.

-you might get a design patent and when you produce something your product is protected by trade dress so nobody can make something that looks exactly like your product without consequences. The idea though is that you cant make something look so close that it will probably be mistaken for another manufacurers device.
post #17 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post


I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly.

Totally...

post #18 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Android's ultimate fate is already being revealed. Strip out everything but the kernel. Get rid of the "profit layer" that shows AdMob ads, cut out the weed patch Market, and use alternate search engines. Like the Grid 10 does. Like Amazon will soon be doing. Like Baidu is doing in China. The ultimate expression of "open."

Android handsets generate only $6-$10 per user for Google. Per year. Microsoft makes at least $5 per copy of Android from patent licensing fees. Do the math.

Oh, and it's looking rather grim for Fragdroid in the iPad and iPad clone market. Microsoft will snap up all the crumbs that Apple leaves behind. Windows 8 Tablet is looking pretty good. And Oracle isn't suing Microsoft for illegally copying Java.


Ummm, I don't think the point of my post was to address profit margins. You brought up a completely irrelevant point.

In other words, nice try with the red herring, but your reasoning skills are lacking, but that may be because you're incapable of understanding the issues because of your fanboy obsessions. The rest of us are just trying to have a discussion here instead of engaging in internet pissing contests.

post #19 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Totally...



Oh noes. GM and Ford should sue each other!!!!!!!!







post #20 of 155
Samsung is hilarious. First they rip off Apple's design, get their ass handed to them in legal battles, have their products blocked in several countries, and then they turn right back around and copy Apple's legal tactics! They're now asking for the very same injunctions Apple had placed on them, and even after being denied early access, planning on trying to block unannounced, unreleased products that they weren't allowed to preview for their case preparation. Desperation is a stinky cologne, Sammy.

This is beginning to sound like PeeWee's "I know you are but what am I?" argument.

Can Apple sue Samsung for copying their legal strategy?
post #21 of 155
LOL, after the last few posts, I am getting car ads in the banners. Gotta love the omniscient internets. Normally the ads are about either Android/Google or repair of Apple products by third parties. I suppose Apple wouldn't waste money advertising on appleinsider.com
post #22 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Totally...



i thought ford went bankrupty before a govt. bailout...so that's all roses...and im sure ford would have done much better if people did just copy there lame designs...samsung def ripped off apple and deserve to be reprimanded for it...maybe samsung should put money into new designs and not new lawyers...
post #23 of 155
Samsung would win any litigation that is held in South Korea. This would at least save Samsung "face" when they loose all impartial litigations.
post #24 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world? I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly. Why do you think that is? Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of? If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.

Firstly, cars have been around quite a long time and its patients have expired. Plus, there are several ways to design a phone or tablet, however, Samsung wants to imitate a successful product!
post #25 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by egkim View Post

왜 유럽에서 빰맞고 한국에서 개드립이야- 뭐 하자는거야 이거? 유럽가서 소송걸어야지 왜 한국에서 까부는거야?

맞고 한 하자는거서 어야지 왜?
유럽에? 국에서 개드.국에서 이야- 뭐,소송걸!! 고 한 하자,부는,서 까부? 야 이거? 유럽가, 한국에는,거야? 는,서 까부?
왜 서 빰,지 왜지 왜;개드!! 립, 걸!! 고 한 !! ? 야 이거? ;p
post #26 of 155
Is Apple going to stop using Samsung LCD screens on the iPad and the iPhone?
post #27 of 155
I hope they ban the iPhone in Korea.

We will then see the mother of all black-markets right in samdungs homeland.
post #28 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Is Apple going to stop using Samsung LCD screens on the iPad and the iPhone?

They already have, LG is back up to speed.

TSMC is getting ready to make Apple's custom processors.
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post #29 of 155
Kimchi is a dish best served cold...
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post #30 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907

I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly.

Totally...


I kind of understand what you are coming from, but I think GM and Ford mimicking each others models is not the same thing as Samsung copying Apple products. Nobody honestly thinks that only Apple should have a monopoly on rectangular devices with a glass screen and a button on the front, just like no-one honestly thinks only Ford can make a box on wheels.

The Apple vs. Samsung case is not just about how the Galaxy tabs/phones look so much like iPad and the iPhone, it's about what is usually called the 'trade dress' that Samsung is copying from Apple. This includes the hardware itself, the software (up to the iTunes clone that Samsung made), the feature set, the packaging, which consumers the products are targeted at, the way they are marketed, basically every aspect of the product that is supposed make people want to buy it. Samsung is trying to copy everything about the iPad and iPhone, trying to lure the exact same customers as Apple is targeting with the iPad.

In the Ford/GM example, neither of these two companies introduced, invented or popularized the mid-size family saloon, or added anything substantial to mid-size family saloons that didn't already exist. They were both already in the business of making cars, there has always been a demand for mid-size saloons, so they both came up with a car that fit that segment, and apparently one of them ripped off the others design.

With the iPad and iPhone, Apple launched products that were a complete departure from everything that came before it, taking a few very bold decisions that many, many people have laughed at and ridiculed, but eventually turned out to be the big selling points of iOS devices. Apple took all these design and product decisions on their own accord, they developed their own software, and basically innovated almost everything about iOS devices themselves (note: 'innovate' is not the same as 'invent'). Seeing the succes of iOS devices, Samsung simply decided to imitate everything about them, going after the exact same customers using the exact same hardware running software that looks almost exactly the same (touchwiz, kies), advertising it as direct competitor to iOS products (except 'better'), and so on.

I think this whole Apple vs Samsung war is about all of this, not just about how much the iPad looks like a Galaxy Tab. If that were true, Apple would be suing the manufacturers of about every tablet on the market, because they all look the same. They sued Samsung, because Samsung is trying to get a free ride on Apples success using products that you could almost call KIRFs with a big-brand name on them.
post #31 of 155
Apple has plenty of other markets to distribute its supply constrained products. It can wait on Korea, if need be. In the mean time, Samsung will alienate the Apple fans. A black market will emerge to fill the demand, hurting the Korea resellers.
post #32 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Samsung would win any litigation that is held in South Korea. This would at least save Samsung "face" when they loose all impartial litigations.

Kinda reminds me of the Soccer World Cup that was co-hosted there... There was this allegedly rigged match...
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post #33 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Samsung would win any litigation that is held in South Korea. This would at least save Samsung "face" when they loose all impartial litigations.

The peeps would be pissed. All the girl bands who do the record execs use iPhones.
post #34 of 155
Whatever it is, they better not affect sales in the US.
post #35 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott523 View Post

Whatever it is, they better not affect sales in the US.

Are you going to get medieval on their asses?
post #36 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Seeing the succes of iOS devices, Samsung simply decided to imitate everything about them, going after the exact same customers using the exact same hardware running software that looks almost exactly the same (touchwiz, kies), advertising it as direct competitor to iOS products (except 'better'), and so on.

Other than the identical hardware claim (they're quite different really), I generally agree with your post. Samsung went out of their way to learn lessons from Apple's products. Now whether Apple is going after them because they imitated the teacher too much, or instead are the biggest competitive threat to Apple's devices is less certain IMHO. Perhaps a bit of both. So far Apple has only gone after those who have seen success against them, Motorola (Droids), HTC (Thunderbolt) and Samsung.
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post #37 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by egkim View Post

왜 유럽에서 빰맞고 한국에서 개드립이야- 뭐 하자는거야 이거? 유럽가서 소송걸어야지 왜 한국에서 까부는거야?

According to translate.google.com:

Why Europe's ppammatgo gaedeuripyiya in Korea - are you doing this? Why go to Europe, I'm calling the lawsuit in South Korea's skittish?

Well, Google isn't perfect either...
post #38 of 155
I MADE AN ACCOUNT TO JUST TO SAY THIS.

Samsung need to F**K OFF

This is the only way they make profits is but finding cracks in apples designs so they can have a slice of the profit. Apple doesnt nearly sue as much as other phone companys sue apple.

Sorry for the language... peace.... i felt the need to pitch in my 2 cents lol
post #39 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world? I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly. Why do you think that is? Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of? If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.

if you patented the process of vulcanizing rubber to make car tires - and someone else started using a heat treatment process to improve the durability of car tires - then yes you would most likely sue the maker of the tire - but would you sue every company or customer who used the finished product?

And even if it is a given then it is not possible to make a conveyance with rolling tires that do not use some sort of heat treating process on those tires - does that necessarily mean that every tire maker out there has copied your technology?

there are all sort of questions about just what can and should be covered by a patent and how literal or strict should that patent be interpreted.

personally I don't think it should be possible to patent general ideas - but only specific implementations. just consider the mouse trap - how many 100s (or is it 1000s) of mouse capturing devices have been patented - so clear the idea of a mechanical device used to detain, capture, or kill a small rodent by itself cannot be patented.

or even the lightbulb - the original patent that helped establish a dominant light fixture was not on the bulb itself but the screw in base of the bulb so that a failed bulb could be easily replaced - an invention that is still used in the majority of light fixtures 100 years after it was invented. so again the idea of a socketized replaceable lighting device is not patented but rather the particular size and shape and method (screw) by which the bulb and socket are mated is what was patented.
post #40 of 155
Um... this is already how patents work. You patent a particular way of doing something and then no one else can do it the same way... but are free to devise a different way to solve the same problem.

Yes, the screw in light bulb socket was patented. So was the competing bayonet socket. Two solutions to the same problem. Two separate patents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


personally I don't think it should be possible to patent general ideas - but only specific implementations. just consider the mouse trap - how many 100s (or is it 1000s) of mouse capturing devices have been patented - so clear the idea of a mechanical device used to detain, capture, or kill a small rodent by itself cannot be patented.
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