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Samsung planning legal offensive against Apple's unreleased iPhone 5 - Page 2

post #41 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world? I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly. Why do you think that is? Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of? If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.

Agree 100% great point! Enough already with the lawsuits!

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post #42 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack99 View Post

Oh noes. GM and Ford should sue each other!!!!!!!!








Yep...let see who made the first aerodynamic car...... Or you could say "insert car name here" violates the "look and "feel" of "again insert car name here" When it all comes down to the natural evolution of style and function. If everyone took Apple's cue then EVERY industry would be suing each other because ALL businesses copy successful designs.

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post #43 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post

Can Apple sue Samsung for copying their legal strategy?

post #44 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Agree 100% great point!

No, it's not. Read.
post #45 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market,

Incorrect.

While many people think that the iPhone is the undisputed king of the smartphone market, it is actually Googles Android (News - Alert) platform phones which continue to reign. A new report continues to show that while consumers love Apple and the iPhone Androids wide variety of phones has kept them holding the largest market share.

...

As far as smartphone manufacturers, Samsung (News - Alert) takes the top spot with 25.5 percent of the market. Trailing closely behind is LG with 20.9 percent. Motorola brings up third place with 14.1 percent and Apple actually comes in a distant fourth with just 9 percent of the market.

http://www.tmcnet.com/topics/article...arketshare.htm
post #46 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack99 View Post

This pretty much, though I don't think Apple controls the majority any longer. That might explain their insecurity. A shrinking market share means they fear becoming sieged from all sides.

Apple's market share is growing. Slowly, but nevertheless growing. Both RIM and Nokia are sinking fast, M$ is not gaining much traction, and the market overall is growing fast, so there is plenty of room for Apple to gain, despite the public's preference for Android.
post #47 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Totally...


sigh. Car makers do and did sue each other constantly. The reason for such similar looking cars is that you can only patent what is new and novel. So while individual parts of each of these cars may have a design patent, they were not overall departures from previous designs. And those parts that are new and novel? Totally different between the cars.

Now, look at Samsung's tablets before the iPad and those after. the whole design of the ipad was new and novel. No one made a tablet that looked like it before. Yet suddenly Samsung's tablets start to look just like it.

This is almost the perfect example of the violation of design patents and trade dress law. If this wasn't Apple..if it was LG and Samsung fighting there would not even be an argument about who was right.
post #48 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Samsung needs to do something, ANYTHING, to keep from getting crushed.

Currently, Samsung is the market leader among smartphone manufacturers, while Apple is number 4. I'm not sure where your premise that they are in danger of being crushed originates.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

If Samsung really wants to sue Apple over basic wireless technology, they'll need to sue every other handset manufacturer that uses that technology.

Why? There is really no need to do anything like that. They can pick and choose if they want to do that. There is no prohibition on selective prosecution.
post #49 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Incorrect.

While many people think that the iPhone is the undisputed king of the smartphone market, it is actually Googles Android (News - Alert) platform phones which continue to reign. A new report continues to show that while consumers love Apple and the iPhone Androids wide variety of phones has kept them holding the largest market share.

...

As far as smartphone manufacturers, Samsung (News - Alert) takes the top spot with 25.5 percent of the market. Trailing closely behind is LG with 20.9 percent. Motorola brings up third place with 14.1 percent and Apple actually comes in a distant fourth with just 9 percent of the market.

http://www.tmcnet.com/topics/article...arketshare.htm

Please go back and check the sources better. The numbers you quote are US OEM's of phones, not smart-phones and not world-wide!
Apple is largest OEM of smart-phones in US; I think Nokia is still largest OEM of smart-phones world-wide. So, you may want to correct your multiple posts to the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Currently, Samsung is the market leader among smartphone manufacturers, while Apple is number 4. I'm not sure where your premise that they are in danger of being crushed originates.





Why? There is really no need to do anything like that. They can pick and choose if they want to do that. There is no prohibition on selective prosecution.
post #50 of 155
deleted
post #51 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Incorrect. While many people think that the iPhone is the undisputed king of the smartphone market, it is actually Googles Android (News - Alert) platform phones which continue to reign. A new report continues to show that while consumers love Apple and the iPhone Androids wide variety of phones has kept them holding the largest market share.

Sure, when you give your OS away for free along with the majority of the phones out there, you are going to have market share.
post #52 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

You miss the point. Samsung is infringing on Apple's IP. Apple puts effort into innovating, then others copy it lock stock and barrel. That simply is not fair.

If you had invented something and others ripped you off, you would be upset as well.

Agreed. People arguing the opposite need to ask themselves, would Rolex have some legal case if Samsung were shipping wrist watches that looked exactly like a Rolex? Last time I checked the knock offs came from Mexico in tourists pockets not from major retail outlets.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #53 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Currently, Samsung is the market leader among smartphone manufacturers, while Apple is number 4. I'm not sure where your premise that they are in danger of being crushed originates.





Why? There is really no need to do anything like that. They can pick and choose if they want to do that. There is no prohibition on selective prosecution.


Apple makes half of all the profits of all the handsets sold on earth.

Money talks your bullish*t walks.
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post #54 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack99 View Post

This pretty much, though I don't think Apple controls the majority any longer. That might explain their insecurity. A shrinking market share means they fear becoming sieged from all sides.

Maybe not the majority, but a very large slice of the pie. No one should be suing over this anymore. A slate is a slate. A smartphone is a smartphone. The current trends are to make a thin, rectangular device with a couple of buttons on the front. Simple, elegant...done.

Now, how about saving all that $$$ in lawsuits and using it to make better products. An example:
I sold my iPhone 3GS (no warranty and I am unlucky) and bought a used Samsung Focus. Nice phone and Nice OS. I like the OS better than iOS. BUT....and this is where the better product idea comes in....I use a number of apps for language study which are only available on iOS. So, even though the Samsung Focus is a nice phone and Windows Phone OS is fantastic...I will choose the iPhone due to the apps.

This is something I don't think these other companies understand. Many people want the entire ecosystem that Apple provides. Samsung and Windows Phone OS / Samsung and Android just cannot match this. So why the need to sue?
post #55 of 155
If I were Apple, I simply wouldn't even bother to launch in Korea. They have plenty of other markets who want their products. I feel bad for all the Koreans who want an iPhone 5, but if your corporations are going to act childish...
post #56 of 155
I took it down. Redundant.
post #57 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

The implied premise there is that the telecommunications functions require their patents. ... In many cases (I believe), such fees are covered in the parts Apple buys.

This is the big deal. Apple doesn't design or manufacture any of the wireless communication chips. They buy them from third-party sources.

If those sources are violating Samsung patents, then Samsung should sue them. And if the chips are manufactured under license, then Samsung has no right to sue anyone buying and using those chips, even if they are competing with Samsung.

Of course, this is the same thing other patent trolls are attempting, WRT Apple's in-app-purchase feature. Apple licensed the tech and made it part of iOS, and now the original patent holder is trying to sue everybody using those APIs.

I think the courts need to set a new precedent. Any time you're found abusing the court system with frivolous patent lawsuits, the court should invalidate the entire patent. That'll eliminate the frivolous suits real fast.
post #58 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Bring it on!!!!!

errrr... I don't think you're involved in any of this, like us, you're just a customer dude!
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post #59 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by habi View Post

Please educate yourself.

-you might get a design patent and when you produce something your product is protected by trade dress so nobody can make something that looks exactly like your product without consequences. The idea though is that you cant make something look so close that it will probably be mistaken for another manufacurers device.

1. Don't be a dick. 2. If you are unsure, see rule 1.

Now, this nonsense about people being confused really is being taken to the extreme. No one is going to confuse a Samsung tablet with an Apple iPad. The branding alone makes it very clear what the devices are and who makes them. This applies to phones as well.

Talk to people who sell these phones. I did this over the weekend after reading an article last week. The customers are not THAT stupid. They know what an iPhone and iPad is and they know the difference between Apple products and Samsung products.

The time and money wasted on this superfluous nonsense is getting in the way of actually producing products.
post #60 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

If you invented the car, sure you can sue every other carmaker in the world, PROVIDED you have a patent and the patent hasn't expired.

Technically yes. Except that in doing so you open yourself up to retaliation.

If one car maker is holding a significant automotive patent, they may try to sue the competition, but they know full well that they are also infringing on their competitors' patents, who will counter-sue. The big automakers all know this, so they keep their lawyers chained up in the basement, only to be used when absolutely necessary.

Sadly, it appears that Apple and Samsung don't have the same level of sense that the car companies do. So they're suing each other, and in the end, the only one benefiting will be the lawyers.
post #61 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranReloaded View Post

Kinda reminds me of the Soccer World Cup that was co-hosted there... There was this allegedly rigged match...

Not to mention the boxing events when the Olympics were held in Seoul. That's not even an allegation. The Korean boxing associating put so much pressure on the judges and refs to the point that the bias was so blatant that the international olympic committee for boxing awarded the outstanding boxer award to a silver medalist (he might even have one the outstanding athlete of the games award, it was that shameful), --an American who 'lost' to a Korean in the gold medal match despite completely dominating him. I forgot the American's name but he moved on to a stellar professional career.

Then there was also the spectacle of a Korean boxer who actually lost (the only Korean I suppose who had the bad luck to fight before honest judges) --he was so upset that the cheating machine didn't work for him that after the fight he pouted like a three year old, sat in the middle of the ring, and refused to move for quite some time.

Yes, a proud moment in sportsmanship.
post #62 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world? I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly. Why do you think that is? Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of? If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.

There are plenty of lawsuits regarding a car's external design resemble another car too much. It's just that no body really pay attention to auto sector anymore.
post #63 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Is Apple going to stop using Samsung LCD screens on the iPad and the iPhone?

I think the Retina display are all made by LG.
post #64 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

You miss the point. Samsung is infringing on Apple's IP. Apple puts effort into innovating, then others copy it lock stock and barrel. That simply is not fair.

If you had invented something and others ripped you off, you would be upset as well.

That would make sense if that was what actually was happening.
post #65 of 155
Good job Sammy.

Show them who is the real boss.

Apple has all of its eggs in one basket. Destroy that basket and you have Apple teetering to the negotiation table.

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post #66 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Good job Sammy.

Show them who is the real boss.

Apple has all of its eggs in one basket. Destroy that basket and you have Apple teetering to the negotiation table.

lolwut.

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Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #67 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

There are plenty of lawsuits regarding a car's external design resemble another car too much. It's just that no body really pay attention to auto sector anymore.

What was the latest one?
post #68 of 155
Ford sued Ferrari over the use of "F-150" in racing. That's about all I can come up with, so it looks like one car manufacturer suing another is pretty rare nowadays.
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post #69 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

1. Don't be a dick. 2. If you are unsure, see rule 1.

Now, this nonsense about people being confused really is being taken to the extreme. No one is going to confuse a Samsung tablet with an Apple iPad. The branding alone makes it very clear what the devices are and who makes them. This applies to phones as well.

Talk to people who sell these phones. I did this over the weekend after reading an article last week. The customers are not THAT stupid. They know what an iPhone and iPad is and they know the difference between Apple products and Samsung products.

The time and money wasted on this superfluous nonsense is getting in the way of actually producing products.

I disagree. I've heard countless people say their samsung phone is the same thing as an iPhone. I've heard salesman pitch samsung devices as being knockoffs of the iPhone. The packaging looks almost identical, the devices look almost identical, just because you're a tekkie and follow AI and know the difference doesn't mean every consumer does.

It seems pretty clear reading all these forums the past few months that anyone who claims to be an artist says apple has every right to sue samsung, that if someone copied their creativity so unscrupulously they would be pretty upset. Meanwhile, many of the engineers are all failing to understand because every company copies one another. Here in lies the difference between the two companies as well. Samsung is a hardware/engineer based company so they reverse engineer stuff all the time, they don't see a problem. Apple is primarily avdesign driven company, they are furious that samsung is piggy-backing on all their handwork and creativity.
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post #70 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

If I invented a car, does that give me the right to sue every other car maker in the world? I think it's hysterical that Ford and GM both have made cars and trucks that look nearly identical for decades, and yet both have been successful without suing each other constantly. Why do you think that is? Apple already controls the majority of the smart phone market, so what exactly are they afraid of? If competition is such an issue for them, maybe they should release a superior product instead of hiding behind a bunch of overpaid suits.

If you invented and patented "the car," why would you not have the right to sue anyone and everyone who made one that infringed on your claims?

But the first car was patented in 1789-90 (by Oliver Evans [in the 1940s, the US Navy named a ship after him]). The US patent would have expired about 1803. It's free for anyone now, GM, Ford, Toyota, ....

By the way, since when does Apple "control...the majority of the smart phone market" ? And in what sense are they "hiding" behind anything?
post #71 of 155
Here's a Galaxy S 2 ad that "slavishly" copies Apple's "Think Different" ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bu0I...e_gdata_player

This ad is pretty cool, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoAhe...e_gdata_player
post #72 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Good job Sammy.

Show them who is the real boss.

Apple has all of its eggs in one basket. Destroy that basket and you have Apple teetering to the negotiation table.

Baloney.

First, Samsung can not simply stop shipping products to Apple without violating their supply agreements - and losing billions of dollars in damages.

Second, there's not a single thing in the iPhone or iPad that Apple can't get from someone else. In fact, the majority of items already have second source suppliers.

So Apple is inconvenienced for a while - and collects billions of dollars from Samsung for breaking their contracts while Samsung loses $7 B a year in revenues.

Somehow, I don't think that's what Samsung wants.
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post #73 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Baloney.

First, Samsung can not simply stop shipping products to Apple without violating their supply agreements - and losing billions of dollars in damages.

Second, there's not a single thing in the iPhone or iPad that Apple can't get from someone else. In fact, the majority of items already have second source suppliers.

So Apple is inconvenienced for a while - and collects billions of dollars from Samsung for breaking their contracts while Samsung loses $7 B a year in revenues.

Somehow, I don't think that's what Samsung wants.

None of us know what all the contracts entail, how long they're good for, nor what penalty clauses are involved. Heck, most could be year to year for all we know.

As for avoiding Samsung altogether, where have you seen that Apple can do so, that everything can be sourced elsewhere? Even Samsung's competitors make use of Samsung semi-conductors and chips.
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post #74 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Are you a complete idiot, democrat or just dysfunctional in some way? That is exactly what Apple did, they released a superior product. They aren't hiding behind anybody they are rather going after the ripoff artist at Samsung. What you should be asking is why is Samsung so lazy that they can develop their own technology and user interfaces.

I don't think it has anything to do with laziness.

PS - I like the way you slipped democrat into your line of abuse. It was very very very clever and not dysfunctional or idiotic.
post #75 of 155
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post #76 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Not to mention the boxing events when the Olympics were held in Seoul. That's not even an allegation. The Korean boxing associating put so much pressure on the judges and refs to the point that the bias was so blatant that the international olympic committee for boxing awarded the outstanding boxer award to a silver medalist (he might even have one the outstanding athlete of the games award, it was that shameful), --an American who 'lost' to a Korean in the gold medal match despite completely dominating him. I forgot the American's name but he moved on to a stellar professional career.

Then there was also the spectacle of a Korean boxer who actually lost (the only Korean I suppose who had the bad luck to fight before honest judges) --he was so upset that the cheating machine didn't work for him that after the fight he pouted like a three year old, sat in the middle of the ring, and refused to move for quite some time.

Yes, a proud moment in sportsmanship.

The American was Roy Jones, Jr.
post #77 of 155
Edit: removed duplicate post :-/
post #78 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

None of us know what all the contracts entail, how long they're good for, nor what penalty clauses are involved. Heck, most could be year to year for all we know.

As for avoiding Samsung altogether, where have you seen that Apple can do so, that everything can be sourced elsewhere? Even Samsung's competitors make use of Samsung semi-conductors and chips.

Apple doesn't use any Samsung semi-conductors, except for the RAM and flash chips, which they could get from other sources (Elpida, Micron both make LPDDR2 and flash memory, for example). Samsung fabs the Apple SoC's, but it's almost a public secret that from the A6 onwards, TSMC will produce them (no reason why they couldn't do it, they basically have the exact same equipment as Samsung, I know this because I work for the supplier of said equipment). The radio IC's are from Infineon and Qualcomm. The screens Apple already gets from LG, Wintek and I think a third supplier. The battery is custom, don't know where they are produced but definitely not Samsung. The cameras are from OmniVision, for the iPhone 5 some people are speculating it will have a Sony cam. The gyroscope/accelerometer are from STMicro. The case is not made by Samsung, and the iPhones are assembled by Foxconn and Pegatron.

Did I miss any parts?
post #79 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

... Are you a complete idiot, democrat or just dysfunctional in some way?....

It's so funny (to non-Americans I suppose), how the word "democrat" which refers to possibly the single most important political principle ever discovered and has been honoured and revered since the time of ancient Greece, has become an insult in late 20th century America.

America, "land of the free," home of democracy, but "democrat" is an insult. WTF?

Future historians will certainly be most amused and interested in this perverse turn of events. It might even be used as a demarcation of the point at which the USA really began it's transformation into a Fascist state.
post #80 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Yep...let see who made the first aerodynamic car...... Or you could say "insert car name here" violates the "look and "feel" of "again insert car name here" When it all comes down to the natural evolution of style and function. If everyone took Apple's cue then EVERY industry would be suing each other because ALL businesses copy successful designs.

What a ridiculous argument.

The worlds *second* aerodynamically designed automobile would definitely *not* violate the rights of the first one because aerodynamics is a principle, not a design element. If the second aerodynamically designed auto was however a very similar shape and form to the first one, then it *would* violate the first design patent because it would be a close copy of the exact shape.

There are many possible aerodynamic shapes, so there is no need to copy another one because it's a principle applied to the underlying design. Your argument actually supports Apple's position on the Samsung suit.
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