Netflix spins off its DVD-by-mail service as Qwikster - Page 3

Got the e-mail this morning. Yawn. And really...RENAMING the DVD service? That's absolutely stupid.

Edit: Oh, and PS...no one cares about "humility." They don't want a 60% price increase during a major recession. Morons.

can be in trouble anyway without the issues from the studios; the ISPs are definitely moving towards metered usage with low caps; the cablecos hate the streaming video since it replaces their much more expensive and profitable pay-per-view video on demand.

Qwikster? That was the best they could do? The CEO must have put options...

They should close up shop and give the money back to the shareholders....

I have always thought they they should have plans to allow the streaming of a certain # of the same movies in their DVD catalog per month. I would gladly pay about $15/month for this ability.

I just use the Streaming service on my ipad and apple tv...so i didnt care about the split. But come on. Even at $16 for both the DVD and the Streaming services combined is a GREAT deal. $8 a month for unlimited streaming? Thats insanely cheap. Content providers are seeing what a big deal streaming is becoming, and charging Netflix MORE when their contracts expire. Some, like Starz plus are withdrawing their content completely! Netflix is just trying to survive and stay competitive.

And for those complaining about the $8 or so for DVD rentals thats a bargain too. Even in this economy. Cable...now THAT is a rip off. LOL.

Seriously. If you rent and return 10 Dvds in a month...where else ya gonna get that deal?

Again...i prefer the streaming service. And when i need a new new release in a pinch i will use the Redbox kiosk in the supermarket across the street...or stream it for $4.99 from Apple's itunes.

You have to remember, Netflix is just trying to survive. I always knew that unlimited streaming AND DVD rentals for $8 combined couldn't last. How do you expect Netflix to stay in business with that model? Especially when content providers are putting the squeeze on them. I don't care for Hulu. I hate their layout. Right now, Netflix streaming is the best deal in town. My only wish is that they increase their content of older films to stream. Otherwise, until Apple comes along with their own monthly subscription unlimited streaming service, i will defend them.

The streaming selection is still pathetic unless you want to watch The Human Centipede or Harry and The Hendersons. The quality, likewise, also leaves a lot to be desired. I don't think I've ever rated the streaming quality as anything but "acceptable" at best. Maybe those saying that the disc rental side is helping subsidize the streaming side might have a point.

Agree. And i am sure this is where things are headed eventually. People are adopting streaming more and more and the demand for better quality titles is getting stronger. Once they get enough people streaming, they will start adding more titles and charging more to cover the costs that content providers are charging them.

This is a great model, so i hope the content providers dont get too greedy or they might end up killing it altogether. Dont get mad at Netflix, they are just trying to survive. Where else can ou get unlimited streaming for $8 a month?

Cable companies are getting scared too. Lots of people are cancelling premium cable channels because of streaming.

Its the wild west out there right now, so anyone who expects things and prices to stay the same, is living in la la land.

I don't see how anyone can think Netflix has anything other than these above posts in mind for the long term of mailed DVDs.

Wasn't it reported a year or two ago how much more profitable the streaming part of their business was compared to the storing, packaging, mailing, and replacing of physical discs?

I am sure they will work on this the more popular streaming becomes. More and more people are dropping DVDs completely. I am one of them. Not because of cost, i just prefer to stream. The quality on my ipad via wifi is great. As well as thru my apple tv and flat screen. I love the convenience. The ability to randomly and instantly check out titles and discover new movies by streaming. If i dont dig it, i can stop it and check another one right then. Can't do that with the dvd option.

I do agree, they need to improve the streaming library of older titles. And they will. Some of them are quite lame. Lol. But i have found real gems too. I love foreign movies, and sometimes it's frustrating that they will only have one or two titles from great italian directors like Fellini, but have like 6 cheesy badly dubbed italian Hercules movies. Lol.

Not perfect yet, but it's getting there.

I just got an email from the dumb bastard.

Here's how I understand it: People bitched, and showed their appreciation for the changes by leaving, Netflix stocks took a nose dive, so this douchebag's big solution? Rename the DVD portion to Quickster.

PROBLEM SOLVED

Agreed. Their mail service was always just a stop gap between the extinct video stores and to a time when everything will be streamed, and we are living in a DVD-less world. Netflix came along, and filled that gap beautifully. But times are changing fast. Streaming is taking hold. DVDs are going the way of the dinosaur. It's inevitable. Even Apple will probably drop the optical drive from their next macbook pro redesign as early as January. The writing is on the wall, and Netflix is just trying to stay ahead of the curve. They have a good base. Those that are pissed off about the changes, are the same people who freaked out when Apple got rid of the floppy drive. Lol. If Netflix doesn't switch gears now, they will go out of business. Plain and simple.

Except that now the cost of the content is skyrocketing. They lucked out starting up their streaming business because they got the content dirt cheap but now that's ending so they're looking at price hikes AND less content - if anything I'd say their streaming business is even less sustainable than their DVD business. At least with the DVDs they had fixed costs and could get a decent customer base and make some money even if growth topped off. With streaming their expenses can keep going up and up so they either have to raise prices or not increase content as much as they'd like.

I don't know what their best strategy would be - maybe go on a spending spree and get a lot of decent content locked in for a long time even if it costs an arm and a leg and cuts into their profitability but lets them add more customers?


Their DVD library is entirely separate from streaming rights. To stream anything they have to negotiate a contract specifically for that, if they happen to offer it on DVD that's totally unrelated.



Cheap, but a terrible selection. If you want to be able to watch all that missing content you have to spend more money and go elsewhere. I'd be fine paying quite a bit more if the selection was quite a bit better.


True, but a year or two ago they had streaming content at ridiculously low prices because the format was so new and the studios practically gave it away. Now that those contracts (mostly 3 year ones, so they're expiring this year and next) are up, is it still going to be more profitable to offer content as streaming? Some of the studios are asking for ten times what the fee was for the last contract.

DVDs are just bought so those prices are relatively fixed. With the content costs going way up and all the increased competition on the streaming side (helping the costs go up), maybe DVD won't look so bad to them.

Here here. If that CEO couldn't figure out a way to make the pricing change sound like a positive thing than that is more than enough reason for him to step aside. My parents, for instance, don't stream. they would be getting a price cut. And personally, as someone who streams and likes DVDs, I would gladly pay more if it means Netflix can license more and better product.

Don't get me wrong, I have found a couple of really good titles. One thing I will admit streaming is good for is like you said, "randomly checking out titles and discovering some new movies". One night my wife and I watched a bunch of foreign zombie flicks which were mildly entertaining. However, I could just as easily not have watched them. All that said, the selection still stinks.

Doesnt matter WHAT they name it....in a couple of years mailing DVDs will be as rare as the corner video store. If Netflix doesn't switch gears now and shift to a predominantly streaming model....they will go out of business. Simple as that. They are just preparing for the inevitable. Could they have marketed it better? Sure. But the stock took a hit because wall street felt by switching the emphasis to a streaming business model, that their expensive DVD warehouses would collect dust and hurt them financially. Not because some people cancelled their subscriptions. They have millions of subscribers, and as The streaming business grows, more people will make the switch. Overtime they will close their warehouses, and their stock price will go back up. Personally i dont care, since i am not an investor. Lol

1) We'll have to wait to see but I think streaming is significantly cheaper therefore significantly more profitable which is why the studios are wanting more.

2) I thought they had to buy DVDs at an inflated price to give them the ability to rent them.

Lol. Totally agree. To me Hercules vs the Ninjas is NOT a classic italian movie. And they need to beef up their collection of true classics from true directors like Fellini, Truffaut, Kurosawa etc for me to truly fall in love with netflix. Right now its a fun fling, with alot of promise. I don't know how expensive expanding their streaming content will be, but i'd gladly pay more for the ability to stream almost any movie by any director instantly. Obviously streaming is the future, and Netflix is making their move to switch over, so they can channel morr money into aquiring more titles for streaming. Unlike streaming...i guess it's not going to happen instantly....let alone over night. :-)

Until then, i will keep hunting for the occassional gem...and try to avoid the Hercules vs the Ninjas out there.

That being said, i have begun to stream the entire X Files tv series on Netflix. I never watched the show when it aired, and am digging it. They have all 200 plus episodes to stream. You could literally stream all of them in a month for $8 if you wanted to. Not that i intend to LOL. But you COULD. Like i said, it's a great deal. I am sure if it gets to the point where you could stream practically any movie or director or actor you wanted....netflix will increase their monthly rates.

The decline of mailing dvds will only go down as fast as the selection on streaming goes up. And at this point it has been going up very slowly and looks to be getting even slower (or even going backwards a bit in the case of NF).

At this point I'd say it's just as likely that pushing too hard for users to switch to streaming would kill a business that's currently very successful. No question there are expenses to the DVD model, but there are big advantages as well and at this point it may be years before the selection on streaming can even come close. Not to mention that the numbers may never work out and NF might have to abandon an "all you can eat" plan in the case of streaming, which would be another step backwards from the DVD plan.

The hybrid plan was a great option for consumers and a big plus for NF. Streaming is a great convenience, but a paltry selection - DVDs are great just to fill in the gaps. The combo of the two plans allowed a decent amount of material instantly as well as "anything you can think of" with a wait of a couple days.

Other companies would take years to catch up. But NF took that huge advantage and flushed it down the toilet.



The streaming itself has low costs, but just look at the recent contracts NF has had to sign to get new content (or extend deals). Mad Men was 70-100 million, that's just for one show. Some studios are asking for ten times what they got last time around. NF themselves have said that they will be spending vastly more on content rights. I guess their costs depend on how much content they get, but if they tried to match their DVD selection I'd be shocked if it didn't cost much more than it did on the DVD side.


I could be wrong but I don't believe there's anything stopping them from just buying DVDs and renting them out. I think they do make some bulk deals with the studios that involve some other conditions, but those were voluntary, I don't think anything can be mandated in the case of renting DVDs.

The DVD model is expensive because of overhead. Mailing, transporting, warehousing etc. Streaming doesn't have those costs....but traditionally studios charge more for the ability to stream their content than for their DVDs. So maybe it evens out for Netflix about which ends up costing them more in the end.

The real question is if studios, like the music industry is going to fight it in the begining. It took music companies a long time to pony up to Apple...and that was for music purchases!

Unlimited streaming of video content may scare them. I dont think when they signed their contracts with Netflix originally they thought how popular streaming would become. Or how fast. They may want to control more of their content. Like Starz just did by NOT renewing their contract with Netflix.

Others will begin to start charging Netflix ALOT more for their content....which is why Netflix is changing up their plans now. They are preparing for this increase. Cause lets face, the studios have Netflix and such services by the balls. Without content....they are nothing.

These kind of battles are heating up lately. Even on cable tv where ABC actually blocked their signal of the Oscars last year to renegotiate their contracts.

I think thats why Apple hasn't offered an unlimited subscriotion based streaming model yet. They are waiting to see what happens with the rest before they jump in IMHO.

I like Netflix, and hope it survives. I love the layout and design. If they can increase their streaming library, i would gladly pay more for the service.

They can likely do that but how do they compete with options that have no mailing cost such as Redbox, Walmart and such.

It is most likely "goodbye Netflix." "hello qwickster." (did I spell that right?). I have a very nice home theater with high def lossless audio. Only Blu-ray can deliver the audio/video quality that I demand. I was thinking about dropping the streaming already but now, it's even more likely.

In my house quality >>>> quality (and thereby convenience) except on iPod/iPad where the low quality streaming isn't as noticeable.

The fall TV season is about to start, so time to watch movies will be diminished, anyway.

Plus, I just got Star Wars on Blu-ray. I will probably never make it through the 40 hours of bonus content as well as 12 hours of movie.

They already offer on-demand current theatrical releases at numerous hotel chains, so I don't see complaints forthcoming. Especially since theaters make their money within the first several weeks for the majority of movies. There are rare films that continue to play strong for longer, such as Avatar and The Help.

Redbox still has to service and update their boxes. Plus to equal the amount of output that Netflix warehouses do, they'd have to put out and service so many boxes, i am sure it'd cost them just as much in the end.

Having said that, i do use Redbox in a pinch when i want a new new release. There is a box right across the street from my house, and having been spoiled by the immediacy of streaming, even waiting a few days for a DVD title in the mail is annoying. Lol. True.

Thats why i dropped the netflix DVD service. Not because its too expensive for the two services together, it's not. $16 is still a bargain in my opinion. I just prefer convenience over waiting. A product of this ADD world we live in today. Lol. Seriously.

I would gladly pay $16 to $20 a month for unlimited Netlfix streaming if i could get practically any movie, director or actor i wanted instantly. Now THAT would be worth it. Wether the studios let Netflix do that is another story. But i am sure the selection will get better.

They compete with Redbox by having much better selection, and by the appeal of "all you can eat" for a fixed price.

Walmart also doesn't have an unlimited plan that I could find, just individual rentals for $2 each, and they also don't have nearly the selection of NFDVD.

Say what you want about how DVD mailing is behind the times but I doubt there's anyone offering online video (even individual sales/rentals) that has even a fraction of that selection. And with unlimited plans that gap is even bigger.

What's up with the senior management meltdown in tech.... Fiorina, Hurd, Apotheker, Ballsille (& pal), Ballmer, Yang, Schmidt, Bartz, the people at Nortel, MMI (although Jha made out well)....

Ugh.

This still doesn't address the main problem with Netflix, which is that their selection for online streaming is terrible. There is never anything new, and it's completely random what will pop up and become available months later.

I want better selection for online streaming.

I could care less about Quickster or Qwikster or whatever. I occasionally used DVD shipping when I really wanted to see a movie that I missed in the theaters.


Guess I need to go cancel accounts so they'll get the hint.

Ah.... put options. That maybe answers my question!

I agree. Their streaming library needs more titles. Wait...not just more...but more titles by good directors! Lol. This will happen. We are in the early stages of the DVD to Streaming transition. It's evolving. I have already made the switch. I just don't like waiting in the mail for the DVDs so i dropped that option. Even tho the streaming library is currently lacking, it works for me right now. I know it will catch up. In the meantime, the redbox across the street or Apple itunes works in a pinch when i need a new new title right away.

Besides the immediacy, streaming also appeals to me as an environmentalist. Clean baby clean. :-)

If you already own the disk, but are having trouble ripping some of them, why not just download the files instead? Do you think that there is any difference, morally, between ripping and downloading disks you already own?

I think it means that in future, they expect the DVD business to dry up, but by separating the companies, they can keep the decline from affecting the Netflix brand. Another benefit for them is that they can now independently raise prices for one service and not another. For example, if postal rates go up, it would increase the DVD rental prices, but it would not affect Netflix at all. If you keep both services, you'll end up paying more, but you can't shake you fists at Netflix because they divested their DVD business, allowing them to get away with it.

I think it is the streaming folks that are pissed and freaking out. They are just too use to the internet and streaming being free. They complained when Hulu started to charge. They complained when ISP implemented excessive use policies. Not too much complaining when Netflix increased prices on their DVD plans until it affected streaming.

I think Apple might be right when all TV shows to buy were $1.99 each. Now some shows are $3.99 an episode. No thanks.

For what it is worth, I think Apple ditched the rent model though because of licensing fees. It couldn't get all the studios on board to allow it to rent. Even so, I personally think it was a bad idea to ditch the rent model.

I take it you have all checked out the twitter account for qwikster, the soon to be friendster...

http://twitter.com/#!/Qwikster

First time poster long time reader...

I subscribed to Netflix when it first came out, because I loathed Blockbuster and their late fees. I enjoyed the simplicity of not having to go to the video store and Netflix was a "why didn't I think of that" moment.

As time went on, I watched less and less movies. I still liked Netflix. It was nice to have a movie to watch if I wanted to, I streamed during snow storms, but I didn't rifle through them like some people do. Even then, I kept my account. When the pricing changed, I cancelled my subscription...Not because I'm a whiner, but because the service was invisible to me. This change essentially made me think, "well, I guess I don't use it that much, so..."

Point is, those that say people canceling are "whiners", the truth is some of us are a subset that still think its a good value, if you watch enough DVD's or streaming. Similar to a credit card that sat idly in my wallet deciding to charge a yearly fee. Even if that yearly fee is small or "worth it" to some. Or that browser extension you installed that was nice once in a while, but now it is using more CPU than you'd like. For many, the past and current Netflix is a strong value. For those of us that considered it a "nice thing to have" all these recent moves triggered a reevaluation moment.

As far as a business move, I'm pretty sure most agree this could have been handled better. I'm not angry or sad. I'm indifferent, but as someone who follows business, this seems messy.

Well Said.

I would buy them if I wanted to keep them and watch them more than once, but I don't. I prefer watching them on my iPad rather than on the DVD player. I know I'm sort of a hypocrite after I scolding Solip for illegal tethering, but it is no loss to Netflix as far as I can tell since I delete them after one viewing and never share the files.

Their streaming selection is a piece of shit, selection-wise. I suppose for $8 it's OK for now. The $16 for DVD access (and another $4 for blu-ray) is crap. I had the two at a time plan, and would watch between 2-8 a month at most. I'd watch movies for a few months, work through everything I wanted to see, then not really get anything for awhile.

For me, Netflix started at around $16 a month. Then they dropped the price to compete with Blockbuster. Then, they started $2.00 a month for blu-ray. That annoyed me. Now it's $4. My 2010 plan was about $18.00 a month with streaming a blu-ray. Now it would be $15.00 for blu-ray (2 at a time) plus $8.00 for streaming. That's 22% price increase during terrible economic times, and with the streaming service sucking. Great move, guys.

I've never had handbrake fail on a disc that wasn't damaged, but if you have, just use makemkv. It's free for DVD but costs for BluRay, I think.

netflix has lost only half its value over the past 8 weeks or so; they must be doing something right.