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Microsoft faces iPad, iWorks without articulated plan for Windows 8 Office - Page 2

post #41 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Good analysis.

However, it does leave out some of the downside in terms of Apple's plans and achievements in the area of Office productivity apps.

For instance there is no mention of the fact that the iPad apps are still feature incomplete relative to the desktop versions of iWork, ....

You use iWork daily, observe some flaws, and call it a placeholder Apple doesn't care about.

Want to expereience a real placeholder the vendor doesn't care about? Try Microsoft's Windows version of iMovie. Or try using Office for Mac. Completely ridiculous. iWork has some flaws, and the iOS apps are not (nor do they claim) feature parity, but they are usable as you noted yourself.

The fact is that Apple has put its iWork efforts into iOS in a very short time, and is set to release iCloud versions of its iOS iWork apps soon. After that, I'd expect a new set of iWorks apps with some additional Lion refinements (although a new rev, albeit free, has shipped).

Compare the editing capabilities of iWork iOS/Mac against other versions of "mobile" office apps from Microsoft and others, and I think you'll be forced to agree that Apple currently makes the best mobile suite around.

The fact that Microsoft really doesn't have a functional mobile suite (or a real tablet platform to deploy them on) is kind of the point of the article I think. I mean really, Microsoft has a monopoly on both Windows and Office and is just letting Apple step on the their face in the mobile market, which is where growth is happening.

This is really incredible. Even more incredible is that AI is the only source to recognize this. Wait a year and everyone will catch up to what DED is saying today.
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post #42 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonklers View Post

shouldn't this say:
...makes more than 10 times...


No, look at the last quarter where Office has 100 x the profits of the Entertainment division.

Macintosh 512Ke.......

 

Well now that we can finally increase the font size on main posts, PLEASE change the forum format so one can actually read comments on an iPhone.

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Macintosh 512Ke.......

 

Well now that we can finally increase the font size on main posts, PLEASE change the forum format so one can actually read comments on an iPhone.

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post #43 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Compare the editing capabilities of iWork iOS/Mac against other versions of "mobile" office apps from Microsoft and others, and I think you'll be forced to agree that Apple currently makes the best mobile suite around.

And you included Office 365 in your analysis?
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post #44 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Maybe he has no contract, maybe he just spews this stuff randomly in some sort of literary equivalent of Tourette syndrome, and posts it here out of the goodness of his heart.

I love that this comes in the middle of some 20 "macrulez" posts, not one of which has any value at all or is worth reading more than a line into.
OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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post #45 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Steve Jobs says you're a liar. Tablets will replace computers. This is the post-PC world. Think different.

(I wonder how many tablet reviews were written on one....)

lulz

If so I would guess that they have disabled iPad's spelling auto correct. With it turned on you would be fired within days if not hours.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #46 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Good analysis.

However, it does leave out some of the downside in terms of Apple's plans and achievements in the area of Office productivity apps.

For instance there is no mention of the fact that the iPad apps are still feature incomplete relative to the desktop versions of iWork, that the feature set of both versions is rather minimal at best, and that Apple has a long history of botching Office productivity apps by basically letting them languish after the initial version.

Pages for instance has hardly changed or evolved at all from the very first desktop version and while it's simpler and better designed than MS Word, it's neither as powerful nor as flexible. The mobile version is not even as good as that. There is still no pagination, no hyphenation and no stylesheet control (even though the entire program is based on stylesheets), in the mobile app and moving a document from the desktop to a mobile device, currently changes the format of the file in ridiculous ways.

I use iWork exclusively and as a writer I use Pages for everything I create both on the desktop and the iPad. I use Pages day in and day out on the iPad and on multiple computers and I'm well aware of what it can (and cannot) do. As far as I can see, Apple has shown little sign that they really care that much about those of us that have switched to their productivity apps. The iWork mobile apps feels very much like "placeholder" apps to me. IMO Apple really needs to step up their game here or they will be steamrollered.

I'm really rooting for Apple to pull it off this time, but it bears saying that even though Apple is currently far ahead of Microsoft on the mobile word processing front, there is still ample time for them to f*ck it up as they have before.

If Microsoft wasn't so colossally stupid, they would already have made iOS versions of Word and Excel, and already no one would rat's behind about iWork at all. The fact that Microsft has that idiot Balmer in charge and has reacted so slowly to the threat has given Apple a golden opportunity, that so far, they have squandered IMO.

Given the sheer volume of people using iOS devices, if they actually had a workable Office competitor on iOS that integrated with a workable competitor to office on the desktop, they might even be able to destroy the Office monopoly because their approach and their basic design is superior and the pressure of so many people using an alternative might get it to catch on. I worry however that they will simply display the hubris they have shown so many times and fail completely at this.

I agree with almost all of this.

I am disappointed with missing features in Pages on the iPad.

Same with performance of Pages on the Mac.

There is, however, a hidden capability of Pages Mac -- that most people don't know exists.

Pages Mac is, by far, the best app for creating free-form collages -- of any size including very large posters. Here are a few examples:







These are small renditions of 16" x 20" posters that can be ordered from CostCo or Kodak for a couple of bucks.

Pages Mac has great capabilities for adjusting image parameters, arranging, resizing, clipping and masking photos -- for example the Star in the first and second collages is a shape mask. You can adjust the size of the mask and the size/location of the image within the mask. You can use Bezier curves to create a mask that outlines a person and separates him from a background.

I own $300 programs that can't do this as easily as Pages Mac at $29.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #47 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Just get a bluetooth keyboard ... and it's portable.

Quite a bit less portable if you have to lug a bluetooth keyboard around. Makes you wish they'd attach the keyboard with a hinge that could also hold the screen at a convenient viewing angle...

Ergonomically for data entry, an iPad + a keyboard is worse than a MacBook Air. A track pad is better than a touch screen for repositioning the cursor/selecting text, and it allows your hands to remain in place. Airs are also very quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

For occasional typing on the net, the touch keyboard is good enough

Maybe, but we're talking about MS Office here.
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post #48 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Dude, lighten up. I was trying to be kind. Maybe he has no contract, maybe he just spews this stuff randomly in some sort of literary equivalent of Tourette syndrome, and posts it here out of the goodness of his heart.

Perhaps he doesn't even have a job with AI, no job requirements at all. Maybe he just hacks in here to post this random stuff (which explains the absence of proofreading), and the site owners never stop it because it keeps bringing eyeballs in.

Yeah, that's it.

Regarding Dilger: Mac needs its version of John Dvorak I guess.

On second thought, no, it doesn't!
A big heart is commendable, an enlarged heart is a medical condition.
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A big heart is commendable, an enlarged heart is a medical condition.
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post #49 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Want to expereience a real placeholder the vendor doesn't care about? Try Microsoft's Windows version of iMovie. Or try using Office for Mac. Completely ridiculous.

Or AppleWorks, howabout. Once bitten, twice shy, I'm never using another Apple product to create important documents.
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post #50 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Pages Mac has great capabilities for adjusting image parameters, arranging, resizing, clipping and masking photos -- for example the Star in the first and second collages is a shape mask. You can adjust the size of the mask and the size/location of the image within the mask. You can use Bezier curves to create a mask that outlines a person and separates him from a background.

I own $300 programs that can't do this as easily as Pages Mac at $29.

That is good information Dick but a couple questions. I am not that familiar with Pages since I use it infrequently only to open Word docs. How are the export functions for such large posters? When I do posters in Adobe CS, I have lots of compression, bleed, colorspace options which are essential to send something to prepress. How well does Pages handle CMYK pdf export?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #51 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Dude, lighten up. .... blah blah

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm sure everyone here was wondering if that was a direct quote or not..... blah blah

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Well, if it looks like a mouse and it acts like a mouse....

Petard, meet hoist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

See post #29

Now we're beginning to get somewhere.......
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post #52 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:52pm
One of my beefs with Numbers on the iPad: normally if you put a formula in a cell, you can over-type it if you wish. I have a need for this where I have cells that accept an existing number (in this case, I am counting and identifying light fixtures for retrofit or replacement). I tried to have it where the "proposed" quantity wold pick up the existing, but that I could overtype the formula (=cell-with-existing-qty).

Nope. Can't do it. You can in Excel, and you can in Numbers for OS/X.

I hope they address this in the next release.
A big heart is commendable, an enlarged heart is a medical condition.
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A big heart is commendable, an enlarged heart is a medical condition.
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post #53 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:57pm
Pundits are out of their minds. I see no reason at this moment why anyone would get anything other than an iPad. If they start hammering these things out at $199 they may have a chance, but as it stands, I think people will avoid the MS tablets, and developers will do the same.

I was not referring to their tablets, but their desktop os. Not exactly the point of the article, I know, but i was responding more to those who see MS's downfall in their crystal balls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I certainly don't expect Microsoft to fall to it knees, but I still don't see why pundits are assuming that consumers will flock to Windows 8 tablets since currently, consumers are not exactly flocking to Windows Phone 7 which seems to be rather similar in function. What is going to be the big consumer lure to throw away iPads just to get a Windows 8 tablet? I can maybe understand tech-heads or even businesses wanting to pilot Win8 tablets, but consumers, no.

Microsoft is going to have to start from zero developing apps for the Win8 tablet and Apple will already have 100,000+ apps, games and content ready to go. And that's assuming Microsoft can get everything right on the first shot. Any major problems could ruin Microsoft on the tablet front. I believe Windows 8 on the desktop will be fine for users, both consumers and corporations. Honestly, Windows 8 is just too far off to make any calls, good or bad. It needs to get into consumers and businesses hands before any judgment is passed.
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post #54 of 128
9/19/11 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

Typing on a tablet is horrible. Just horrible. You'd have to be masochistic to do much data entry that way. So who cares if Office is available for touch based platforms. Watch a movie, read a book, play a game, OK. Fill in cells in a spreadsheet? No freakin way.

It may be horrible for you -- because you are used to, and comfortable with, something else.

Last night, my 11-year-old grandson realized that a report was due today. He wipped out his iPad, started Pages, and was done in 1/2 an hour.

He is more comfortable with the iPad than with an iMac... ...something about having fewer choices makes things faster and easier.

He had to AirPrint the report and put it in a cover so he could turn it in...

Now, if his middle school allowed it, he could have given a Keynote preso
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #55 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Good analysis.

However, it does leave out some of the downside in terms of Apple's plans and achievements in the area of Office productivity apps.

For instance there is no mention of the fact that the iPad apps are still feature incomplete relative to the desktop versions of iWork, that the feature set of both versions is rather minimal at best, and that Apple has a long history of botching Office productivity apps by basically letting them languish after the initial version.

Pages for instance has hardly changed or evolved at all from the very first desktop version and while it's simpler and better designed than MS Word, it's neither as powerful nor as flexible. The mobile version is not even as good as that. There is still no pagination, no hyphenation and no stylesheet control (even though the entire program is based on stylesheets), in the mobile app and moving a document from the desktop to a mobile device, currently changes the format of the file in ridiculous ways.

I use iWork exclusively and as a writer I use Pages for everything I create both on the desktop and the iPad. I use Pages day in and day out on the iPad and on multiple computers and I'm well aware of what it can (and cannot) do. As far as I can see, Apple has shown little sign that they really care that much about those of us that have switched to their productivity apps. The iWork mobile apps feels very much like "placeholder" apps to me. IMO Apple really needs to step up their game here or they will be steamrollered.

I'm really rooting for Apple to pull it off this time, but it bears saying that even though Apple is currently far ahead of Microsoft on the mobile word processing front, there is still ample time for them to f*ck it up as they have before.

If Microsoft wasn't so colossally stupid, they would already have made iOS versions of Word and Excel, and already no one would rat's behind about iWork at all. The fact that Microsft has that idiot Balmer in charge and has reacted so slowly to the threat has given Apple a golden opportunity, that so far, they have squandered IMO.

Given the sheer volume of people using iOS devices, if they actually had a workable Office competitor on iOS that integrated with a workable competitor to office on the desktop, they might even be able to destroy the Office monopoly because their approach and their basic design is superior and the pressure of so many people using an alternative might get it to catch on. I worry however that they will simply display the hubris they have shown so many times and fail completely at this.

I agree strongly with your sentiments. I too use Pages every day, even producing large display documents in Pages where I would previously have used Illustrator. I hope that Apple gives the iWork suite top priority.
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post #56 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

How about this for a news story idea...

Why did AAPL pop 2.5% today when the broader markets fell almost 1%??

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Rumors about the iPhone.

Likely, China, iPhone, Android difficulties and the fact that MS Windows 8 is a "no show" as competition for the iPad -- for at least a year, if ever.

There's an old "sales" postulate -- "You can only sell what you have in the wagon".

There is a buyers' corollary -- "You can only buy what the salesman has in the wagon".
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #57 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It may be horrible for you -- because you are used to, and comfortable with, something else.

Last night, my 11-year-old grandson realized that a report was due today. He wipped out his iPad, started Pages, and was done in 1/2 an hour.

He is more comfortable with the iPad than with an iMac... ...something about having fewer choices makes things faster and easier.

He had to AirPrint the report and put it in a cover so he could turn it in...

Now, if his middle school allowed it, he could have given a Keynote preso

And how many words a minute does our 11 year old put out on the keyboard of choice? If he hunts and pecks on both, of course it's the same.
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post #58 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is good information Dick but a couple questions. I am not that familiar with Pages since I use it infrequently only to open Word docs. How are the export functions for such large posters? When I do posters in Adobe CS, I have lots of compression, bleed, colorspace options which are essential to send something to prepress. How well does Pages handle CMYK pdf export?

Pages exports a PDF file -- as to the CMYK, I dunno -- give it a try (and report back, please).

I open the Pages exports in Preview where you can save them as almost anything.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #59 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:28pm
As usual, DED brings brilliant insight into the Apple and MSFT markets. The recent Atlantic editorial basically condemning Apple fanboys / Apple fanatics was a grossly misdirected piece. Apple fans have been taking it in the butt from Wintel techtards for years. And now that Apple has overtaken the market in key areas, and seen its Mac business explode, it is only fair to turn the tables for it is only Apple fans that truly understand how much better the Apple universe is after being sold bloated, buggy, counter intuitive and expensive crapware by MSFT for decades. Not to mention MSFT's illegal anti-competitive activities. It is refreshing to know that MSFT has become irrelevant in the mobile space and good riddance!

Although aware that MSFT stabbed IBM in the back by walking away from the joint OS2 project, I was unaware that they had actually encouraged their competitors to develop for the OS2 platform as a priority before hand, thus eliminating them as competitors. Once again making this company is an easy one to hate.
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post #60 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

And how many words a minute does our 11 year old put out on the keyboard of choice? If he hunts and pecks on both, of course it's the same.

It gets the job done... Isn't that really what it's all about?

I suspect, if he takes typing class, he will be equally proficient on a physical and virtual kb -- why not, he has nothing to unlearn!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #61 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
its Office group makes more than 100 times the profits of its entire Entertainment and Devices Division.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bonklers View Post

shouldn't this say:
...makes more than 10 times...

The reality is that the entertainment division has LOST BILLIONS of dollars and is only now trying to make up ground.
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post #62 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It gets the job done... Isn't that really what it's all about?

I suspect, if he takes typing class, he will be equally proficient on a physical and virtual kb -- why not, he has nothing to unlearn!

Typing class? No app?
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post #63 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonklers View Post

shouldn't this say:
...makes more than 10 times...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

You expect Digler to actually research something? Give him a break - he had a deadline to fulfill, and he had to get to his weekly D&D meeting.

Ah, we have a troll amongst us... masquerading as a, well, troll.
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post #64 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Likely, China, iPhone, Android difficulties and the fact that MS Windows 8 is a "no show" as competition for the iPad -- for at least a year, if ever.

There's an old "sales" postulate -- "You can only sell what you have in the wagon".

There is a buyers' corollary -- "You can only buy what the salesman has in the wagon".

True, but on Wall Street, you can sell empty promises and vaporware... at least until someone calls your bluff or you have to ship something crappy.

Thompson
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post #65 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

..... he has nothing to unlearn!

Very wise, sir. And, the future of Apple.
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post #66 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It may be horrible for you -- because you are used to, and comfortable with, something else

No, it is horrible because you can not rest your fingers on the glass, meaning you can not get any tactile feedback about where your fingers are positioned, meaning you must continually look to see if you are pressing the right key.

As someone else mentioned, I doubt your 11 year old is a touch typist (ironic phrase now that I think about it)... and if he keeps typing on the iPad he never will be.
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post #67 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is good information Dick but a couple questions. I am not that familiar with Pages since I use it infrequently only to open Word docs. How are the export functions for such large posters? When I do posters in Adobe CS, I have lots of compression, bleed, colorspace options which are essential to send something to prepress. How well does Pages handle CMYK pdf export?

This might not answer your question, however, there is at least an ability to manipulate CMYK space when exporting to PDF. I recently had an A0 document printed and was actually surprised at how closely the output matched my expectations. Producing these documents is only incidental to my work though and so, partial capabilities in Pages are acceptable. For me, the biggest advance to Pages came once tighter integration was achieved with EndNote, a big plus.

All the best.

Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #68 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Steve Jobs says you're a liar. Tablets will replace computers. This is the post-PC world. Think different.

(I wonder how many tablet reviews were written on one....)

lulz

Dude, WTF is with you? Do you actually have anything intelligent to add to this site? Jobs is talking about a handheld touch-based world where the overwhelming majority of computer users can do 95% of what they use their computer for without a desktop. And you can always add an inexpensive portable bluetooth keyboard for data input if that's your thing. Go take a nap please.
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post #69 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:51pm
Microsoft could hire Apple to make them an office suite for their new OS, at least they don't have to worry about Apple reverse engineering their OS and stealing it!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #70 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Windows users are old fashioned, unlike cutting edge Mac users. Microsoft is investing heavily in multitouch, and hardly any windows user even knows what that is or has even used it before. State of the art for them is a mouse and a beige keyboard, while Mac users have been using state of the art multitouch devices for many years in Apple laptops and now on desktops with the Magic Trackpad and of course on iOS devices with their touch screens.

Windows 8 on a desktop with those huge tiles looks like it was designed for either senior citizens who have really bad vision problems or for toddlers, take your pick.

Bullshit. I use both Windows and OS X. I also have an iPhone and a Samsung Focus. We also use an Apple TV and a PS3 for 90% of our video needs. I am hardly old fashioned. Get off your Apple fanboy high horse.

By the way, which OS, Windows Vista/7/8, OS X, or iOS has true handwriting recognition? Which OS will let me write in Japanese naturally without having to type? Each OS and hardware has its strengths and weaknesses. Get over yourself.
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post #71 of 128
9/19/11 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Well see the deal is that Apple is private about everything and churns out a series of successful devices at a regular clip.

Microsoft creates a lot of hype about products well in advance, advertises features it won't actually deliver, seeds expectations that never materialize, and then people are still surprised when the product ultimately doesn't sell.

So when Microsoft fails to clearly articulate a key part of its strategy (such as the fact that Windows apps won't run on "Windows" tablets, or that Office isn't something they even have on the drawing board) it's news.

It's actually more newsworthy than when they trot out some vaporware like Courier to battle the iPad in the netherworld of fans' imaginations.

Excellent response. Did you read this "macrulez"???
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post #72 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

Typing class? No app?

There are several -- here's one:

This is TapTyping


"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #73 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Dude, WTF is with you? Do you actually have anything intelligent to add to this site? Jobs is talking about a handheld touch-based world where the overwhelming majority of computer users can do 95% of what they use their computer for without a desktop. And you can always add an inexpensive portable bluetooth keyboard for data input if that's your thing. Go take a nap please.

You should go complain about post 69 too. Not much substance there.
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post #74 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

There are several -- here's one:

This is TapTyping



I know. That's why I am wondering why you would send your grandchild to a class. He can start being a touch typist right now.
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post #75 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

So lemme see...

It is OK for Apple to keep everything a secret until they release new features. But Microsoft is required to spell everything out to DED a year in advance?

Dude, grab some popcorn, don't get wrapped up around the axel... and watch the show.

No, it's MS's choice to blabber about their new system years before it's ready for prime time, and Apple's to talk about it when it's pretty well golden.
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post #76 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:18pm
To be a touch typist means you type "by touch." In other words you can look elsewhere while you are typing. That's the only way you can really disconnect your mind from the action of typing and focus on what you have to say. Imagine trying to drive a car if every time you wanted to turn the steering wheel you had to look down, confirm that your finger was correctly positioned over the steering-wheel widget, and then move your finger. You'd crash pretty quickly. This is also why touch-screens in cars are a real bad idea: you can't reach over and feel the knob or button, you actually have to take your eyes off the road. The best way to learn to type is with keyboard that has no letters painted on it. To simulate this, have your grandson hover his fingers over the keys, then tape a piece of paper to the backs of his hands so he can see the typing area, but not the letters on the keyboard. Good luck.
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post #77 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

No, it's MS's choice to blabber about their new system years before it's ready for prime time, and Apple's to talk about it when it's pretty well golden.

And... you didn't read the article? Did you?
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post #78 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

No, it is horrible because you can not rest your fingers on the glass, meaning you can not get any tactile feedback about where your fingers are positioned, meaning you must continually look to see if you are pressing the right key.

As someone else mentioned, I doubt your 11 year old is a touch typist (ironic phrase now that I think about it)... and if he keeps typing on the iPad he never will be.


And, that's a good thing!


I suspect that virtual kbs will evolve -- They've been at it for about 4 years, while physical kbs have been around (and refined over 100 years)

Here's what I think we'll see:
-- haptics to give a sense of touch
-- home row is wherever you place your hands
-- the virtual kb adapts to hand placement, finger size and spacing, etc.
-- instead of a down/up keystroke it will use an up/down, wiggle, or press-hard/relax keystroke
-- movement from the home row could be calculated by the device from the distance, speed, force you slide a finger (you don't actually need to reach the desired key, just move in that direction)

If typing is rethought and redesigned to take advantage of the capabilities of an intelligent virtual kb -- I suspect we could achieve greater typing speed and accuracy, while decreasing muscle issues like carpel tunnel.

Those coming from being a good touch-typist on a physical kb, likely, will have difficuty adapting.

Those coming fresh to an intelligent virtual kb will learn as a matter of course -- the intelligent virtual kb will adapt to them!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #79 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Bullshit. I use both Windows and OS X. I also have an iPhone and a Samsung Focus. We also use an Apple TV and a PS3 for 90% of our video needs. I am hardly old fashioned. Get off your Apple fanboy high horse.

By the way, which OS, Windows Vista/7/8, OS X, or iOS has true handwriting recognition? Which OS will let me write in Japanese naturally without having to type? Each OS and hardware has its strengths and weaknesses. Get over yourself.

Dude, get off YOUR high horse! What he says is actually true. Windows is nothing more than the same old reused bloated buggy insecure code that is poorly written and carries a lot of legacy crap. The fact that you use both is irrelevant. The Mac universe is a far better platform! its not just about the OS. Further, to your question about Japanese, that would be iOS of course. As well as for Chinese. Get over yourself!
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post #80 of 128
9/19/11 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

If Microsoft wasn't so colossally stupid, they would already have made iOS versions of Word and Excel, and already no one would rat's behind about iWork at all.

Listen:

Do you want to know a secret?
Do you promise not to tell?
Move closer. Let me whisper in your ear:

No one gives a rat's ass about iWork at all, despite M$ not introducing iOS versions of Word and Excel.
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