Microsoft faces iPad, iWorks without articulated plan for Windows 8 Office - Page 3

Originally Posted by FreeRange

Dude, get off YOUR high horse! What he says is actually true. Windows is nothing more than the same old reused bloated buggy insecure code that is poorly written and carries a lot of legacy crap. The fact that you use both is irrelevant. The Mac universe is a far better platform! its not just about the OS. Further, to your question about Japanese, that would be iOS of course. As well as for Chinese. Get over yourself!

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

And, that's a good thing!

Originally Posted by ConradJoe

Listen:

Do you want to know a secret?
Do you promise not to tell?
Move closer. Let me whisper in your ear:

No one gives a rat's ass about iWork at all, despite M$ not introducing iOS versions of Word and Excel.

Originally Posted by Jacksons

Speaking of insecure: http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/19/os-x-l...your-password/

Originally Posted by IQatEdo

Of course, there is always this caveat:

'As CNET points out, a hacker could only take advantage of the known bug if he or she has local access to the computer and Directory Service access.'

Mmmm... better to be aware of ones security environment and take appropriate measures.

Originally Posted by graxspoo

I like your ideas, but maybe you've noticed: We're all still using QWERTY keyboards. Even the iPad has a QWERTY keyboard! This keyboard arrangement was designed to slow typists down so the keys of physical typewriters wouldn't jam. This hasn't been necessary for at least 50 years. The keyboard we all know and love isn't going anywhere. Even with haptic feedback, and the other advances that you mentioned, you still need to know the keyboard so you can type without looking.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Have you ever seen BB users thumb type on their phones...

Contests using trained people sending/receiving Morse code outperform conventional typing.

StenoTypists routinely get above 300 wpm.

The fact that the QWERTY kb is doninant -- means little if someting better comes along.

I can rember way back before touch smart phones... Even further back before cell phones...

Remember, when most telephone handsets had dials -- then they were almost immediately replaced by handsets with pushbuttons.

My point: Don't get too comfortable with your vintage kb.

Originally Posted by Jacksons

Trivia, trivia... What is the fastest touch typist on an iPad (no keyboard)? There has to be a contest for this somewhere.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Doesn't really matter, now does it...

Like a camera, the best kb is the one you have with you!

I have a MacBook that gathers dust -- the iPad goes everywhere I go.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Have you ever seen BB users thumb type on their phones...

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Contests using trained people sending/receiving Morse code outperform conventional typing.
StenoTypists routinely get above 300 wpm.
The fact that the QWERTY kb is doninant -- means little if someting better comes along.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

Windows users are old fashioned, unlike cutting edge Mac users. Microsoft is investing heavily in multitouch, and hardly any windows user even knows what that is or has even used it before. State of the art for them is a mouse and a beige keyboard, while Mac users have been using state of the art multitouch devices for many years in Apple laptops and now on desktops with the Magic Trackpad and of course on iOS devices with their touch screens.

Windows 8 on a desktop with those huge tiles looks like it was designed for either senior citizens who have really bad vision problems or for toddlers, take your pick.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

Good analysis.

However, it does leave out some of the downside in terms of Apple's plans and achievements in the area of Office productivity apps.

For instance there is no mention of the fact that the iPad apps are still feature incomplete relative to the desktop versions of iWork, that the feature set of both versions is rather minimal at best, and that Apple has a long history of botching Office productivity apps by basically letting them languish after the initial version.

Pages for instance has hardly changed or evolved at all from the very first desktop version and while it's simpler and better designed than MS Word, it's neither as powerful nor as flexible. The mobile version is not even as good as that. There is still no pagination, no hyphenation and no stylesheet control (even though the entire program is based on stylesheets), in the mobile app and moving a document from the desktop to a mobile device, currently changes the format of the file in ridiculous ways.

I use iWork exclusively and as a writer I use Pages for everything I create both on the desktop and the iPad. I use Pages day in and day out on the iPad and on multiple computers and I'm well aware of what it can (and cannot) do. As far as I can see, Apple has shown little sign that they really care that much about those of us that have switched to their productivity apps. The iWork mobile apps feels very much like "placeholder" apps to me. IMO Apple really needs to step up their game here or they will be steamrollered.

I'm really rooting for Apple to pull it off this time, but it bears saying that even though Apple is currently far ahead of Microsoft on the mobile word processing front, there is still ample time for them to f*ck it up as they have before.

If Microsoft wasn't so colossally stupid, they would already have made iOS versions of Word and Excel, and already no one would rat's behind about iWork at all. The fact that Microsft has that idiot Balmer in charge and has reacted so slowly to the threat has given Apple a golden opportunity, that so far, they have squandered IMO.

Given the sheer volume of people using iOS devices, if they actually had a workable Office competitor on iOS that integrated with a workable competitor to office on the desktop, they might even be able to destroy the Office monopoly because their approach and their basic design is superior and the pressure of so many people using an alternative might get it to catch on. I worry however that they will simply display the hubris they have shown so many times and fail completely at this.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

Good analysis.

However, it does leave out some of the downside in terms of Apple's plans and achievements in the area of Office productivity apps.

For instance there is no mention of the fact that the iPad apps are still feature incomplete relative to the desktop versions of iWork, that the feature set of both versions is rather minimal at best, and that Apple has a long history of botching Office productivity apps by basically letting them languish after the initial version.

Pages for instance has hardly changed or evolved at all from the very first desktop version and while it's simpler and better designed than MS Word, it's neither as powerful nor as flexible. The mobile version is not even as good as that. There is still no pagination, no hyphenation and no stylesheet control (even though the entire program is based on stylesheets), in the mobile app and moving a document from the desktop to a mobile device, currently changes the format of the file in ridiculous ways.

I use iWork exclusively and as a writer I use Pages for everything I create both on the desktop and the iPad. I use Pages day in and day out on the iPad and on multiple computers and I'm well aware of what it can (and cannot) do. As far as I can see, Apple has shown little sign that they really care that much about those of us that have switched to their productivity apps. The iWork mobile apps feels very much like "placeholder" apps to me. IMO Apple really needs to step up their game here or they will be steamrollered.

I'm really rooting for Apple to pull it off this time, but it bears saying that even though Apple is currently far ahead of Microsoft on the mobile word processing front, there is still ample time for them to f*ck it up as they have before.

If Microsoft wasn't so colossally stupid, they would already have made iOS versions of Word and Excel, and already no one would rat's behind about iWork at all. The fact that Microsft has that idiot Balmer in charge and has reacted so slowly to the threat has given Apple a golden opportunity, that so far, they have squandered IMO.

Given the sheer volume of people using iOS devices, if they actually had a workable Office competitor on iOS that integrated with a workable competitor to office on the desktop, they might even be able to destroy the Office monopoly because their approach and their basic design is superior and the pressure of so many people using an alternative might get it to catch on. I worry however that they will simply display the hubris they have shown so many times and fail completely at this.

Originally Posted by Firefly7475

I must have some kind of subconscious masochist tendencies because I decided to check Dilger's sources again.

As it tuns out it looks like he miss-attributed a quote to Ballmer, made assumptions based on this mistake, then wrote an entire article about it.

This is the point where any blog with integrity would admit their error and update the article with the new information. We'll see what happens here on AI...

The world according the Dilger...
Speaking with financial analysts, Microsoft's chief executive Steve Ballmer answered questions about a Metro Office release by saying, "you ought to expect that we are rethinking and working hard on what it would mean to do Office Metro style."

Ballmer then revealed that Microsoft was still in the early stages of exploring the concept by saying, "the question is Metro interface for Office. How critical is it to Windows 8 adoption to have software that takes full advantage of Office with Metro?

The real world...
QUESTION: Thank you. On Office, I know theres a development effort for Office for ARM. The question is Metro interface for Office. How critical is it to Windows 8 adoption to have software that takes full advantage of Office with Metro? Its now only been about 15 months since the last release of Office. If were, say, a year away, still kind of on the cusp, Im not sure if you had to choose to add functionality to Office, or you say lets just do a Metro infrastructure. If you can kind of share with us your thoughts, particularly as it pertains to the adoption rate of Windows 8.

STEVE BALLMER: Yeah. No, were certainly as I said in my remarks this morning, supporting our platforms and having our platform support innovation in our applications broadly remains super important to us.

The brilliance of the Windows 8 strategy, though, is we get all of the applications that come from Windows on X86, as well as applications that have gone through the process of rethinking how they might work in a Windows 8 world. When we have something that we want to talk about, we will, but certainly you ought to expect that we are rethinking and working hard on what it would mean to do Office Metro style.

Originally Posted by Jacksons

So lemme see...

It is OK for Apple to keep everything a secret until they release new features. But Microsoft is required to spell everything out to DED a year in advance?

Dude, grab some popcorn, don't get wrapped up around the axel... and watch the show.

Originally Posted by krabbelen

Uh, no, it's quite simply that MS equivocates all the time, may introduce something to be released a year later, but end up dropping it.

Originally Posted by Jacksons

DED must have rolling fits of laughter as he spins his web of misinformation. I think he thinks he is a bit like Steve by having his own reality distortion field. I certainly continue to be amazed at how many people take what he says at face value.

Anyway, good work on the fact finding.

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Office users were just beginning to accept the new Ribbon interface (and Office for Mac users were just getting the first sight of the Ribbon) when Apple released its multitouch versions of iWork apps for iPad. Rather than putting more buttons and controls into a busy toolbar, Apple stripped complexity from the iWorks interface to make it more useful to mobile users. At the same time, Apple began work on iCloud, enabling iWork users on Macs and iOS devices to keep their document changes updated across all their devices.

Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins

buahahahahahaha. Comencing attack w/o a server version of your OS. Good luck!

Originally Posted by Jacksons

Speaking of insecure: http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/19/os-x-l...your-password/

Originally Posted by MacRulez

One of the most useful posts here on AI ever.

Nice wish list. I'd like to see those.

Originally Posted by MacRulez

They may well have, and IIRC my iPad2 does provide some haptic feedback when I type, no? (I don't have it with me right now so I can't check that)

But what impressed me more about Applebaum's post were the adaptive elements. Now that's something I haven't seen yet, and may well be worth researching.

Originally Posted by MacRulez

...

Why do you suppose Numbers has not been recognized as the paradigm-shifting spreadsheet we've all been waiting for?

I believe it is, but I seem to be in a small crowd with that opinion, while the rest of the world seems to find Excel adequate.

Originally Posted by IQatEdo

For me, the biggest failing in Numbers is its very poor data parsing facility, which is almost non-existent. I open Excel only to parse data, even at the least complex level.

All the same, I use Mathematica almost exclusively and so, am not too fussed.

Originally Posted by benanderson89

The one thing I do not like about excel is how it handles time.
Because of its poor time handling I almost got paid something like £60, instead of nearly £1k for a job I did.

For example:
If someone works from 9am to 5pm, thats an 8 hour day. Excel works that out nicely.
Factor in the wages of £5 an hour an excel comes back with £1.67 for an 8 hour day.


Turns out to be a bug where you have to multiply the result by 24. Though I use the word "bug" loosely, since its been like this since the very early days of excel.

Originally Posted by IQatEdo

Actually, one of Numbers' strengths I believe, at least under iOS, is the handling of dates/time. Very nice. I use Numbers on the iPad quite happily for certain number entry functions, where inputs are mixed date, time and numeric data.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

You're in top passive-aggressive form today! Congratulations.

(For the record, Steve Jobs would not say so).