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Apple updates Final Cut Pro X with requested features, offers free trial - Page 3

post #81 of 113
I'm extremely happy to see their progress with this software since the June release. I didn't need these new features, I loved the 10.0 release just fine. More features promised for early next year 2012 should be great too. They did have a rocky start but I have enjoyed FCPX greatly. All you "Pros" out there will soon have no reason to complain about X. It's the future, it's for the better, deal with it.

Oh, and I love the new Full-Screen view!
post #82 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

+5
Everything 'professional' related on this site gets the same treatment.
Most of the forum are investors. Thus the attitude of 'Shut up and watch the stock grow'.

That's a sweeping generalisation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

Why did Apple feel the need to add features? Afer all, we were told repeatedly on this site and others that editors who wanted things like XML were just troglodytes and luddites who were afraid of change. Is Apple catering to neanderthals now?

I read a lot of the aftermath of the FCPX release and I don't recall this being the overriding impression. There was a wholly too forceful reaction to the release and some wanted to state that they felt that reaction was unfair, and partly because much of what Apple did with FCPX was indeed forward-thinking and good. Don't be so black and white.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntson View Post

PLEASE, PLEASE - what is going to happen to video out support - it is written all over the walls that FCP does not have this option and no one has addressed it.

I don't see how this related to my comment in any way. As for video out, the very article you are commenting on says this:

'Apple has also promised two new features coming in "early 2012:" multicam editing and broadcast-quality video monitoring.'

So much of the ludicrous overreaction to FCPX is because people like you aren't paying attention and this is a case in point. Many of the 'missing' features that were complained about were in fact there, just not where they had always been previously. I'm not saying there aren't missing features, there are, I'm just making a point so don't let's have all the 'professionals' jump on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Who said, in this site or elsewhere, that "editors who wanted things like XML were just troglodytes and luddites who were afraid of change"?

Now, editors that complain about the UI "dumbing down" are indeed troglodytes afraid of change.

Oh, and editors that suddenly don't understand that their old FC 7 version works just as fine as it did, while needed features are added to future FCPX versions are also "troglodytes afraid of change".

In short, they wanted a new version, as long as it wasn't new enough --i.e the classic Adobe way of piling some stuff on top of bloated 20-year-old codebases and calling it the next version.

Exactly. Nobody called the pros wanting pro features 'troglodytes.' Those wanting more of the same and not seeing that technology has opened up the possibility of a great deal more flexibility were perhaps worthy of the insult.

On a side note, I find it pathetic when people complain that it looks 'too much like iMovie'. Its elitist nonsense. A professional should only care about functionality, not whether their software looks like a less expensive variant. No girl's gonna snog you because your NLE looks expensive. It might look like iMovie because, and this is just a stab in the dark, it was developed by the same man and iMovie was in many ways a test subject for the new FCP features. It does a LOT more than iMovie.

I'm a professional photographer but I don't insist Canon make consumer cameras look like toys so my more expensive bodies look 'more professional'. Silly vanity.
post #83 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Bullshit! They still have FCP 7. Move on...

Apparently that is exactly what they did, they moved on, but not to FCPX. Speaking strictly for myself, I am stuck in limbo. It is impossible for me to upgrade to FCPX or anything else due to a required subtitle plugin for Section 508 government work.

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post #84 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

It was Adobe with fierce competition laying waste to FCPX that forced Apple to even think about addressing the issues.
When over half of your market gets up from the table and says no thanks - that seems to be the magical number before Apple starts to listen.

In a professional environment, it's trust that keeps relations good. Having a road map and some transparency in regards to future development. FCPX came out of nowhere and they killed FCP licenses. Didn't exactly instill trust with professionals now did it.

Professionals don't panic. Anyone who looked at FCPX and said "right i'm moving" was moving already and just waited to see what FCPX had to offer. For Adobe to get the % increase they said just dosn't pass the BS smell test. I would like to know what software and on what platform, untill they give that or revenue numbers it's all PR BS.

The "you can get FC7 by telephone" was like "free iPhone 4 cover", designed to stop the manure machine that is paid PR blogs and comments. Unless you absolutly had to move from FC7 you can wait 2 quarters to see how things develope. The simple fact is that you dont move software you know just because the latest version isn't as good as the previouse version. IIRC FCPX was/is $299, no one gives a shit about that kind of money, I'v spent £1k+ on a yearly licence on software i wasn't even sure i would use.

This is all negative PR, Shrills and Idiots-Fools. The poster who said Apple was doing some PR about listening was right, you don't act that fast you plan. The "oh we will include this" is just goodwill PR, maybe T.Cook's first major decision is a change in Apple PR. The guy's gay after all so he shoud be better with the "nice emotion" stuff. He is also very fucking compertent. Apple don't panic on these kind of thing's, hell in the last 10 years, when have they panicked? This is just a roll-out of features with spin to make goodwill.

Lol, thinking about it, it's like MS 90's style FUD except with the New Apple you know they will deliver.
post #85 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by wienerdog View Post

You're completely missing the point. [...]

If FCPX can't do that, I'm facing running a separate machine with FCS basically in perpetuity. A machine that will, I might add, have a radically different editing interface than the hypothetical new FCPX machine. It's a pain no matter how you slice it. [...]

Apple has rocked the boat hard...and it has made waves, both good and bad. I believe thay have set themselves back 2 or 3 years in this game for the time being - we'll see whether they come out on top as the major professional production tool of choice or not...

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post #86 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Actually they DO pre-announce from time to time. For example, they had pre-announced FCPX at a video editors' conference, they had pre-announced Logic Pro 8 at an audio one.

Also: this could be Tim Cook at work.

I did say "almost"

But you're right; they do it much (much much) more with software than hardware.
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post #87 of 113
I think what Apple is learned is that it probably will have to continue on its path towards sitting on the consumer/prosumer side of things. They just have to make the transition easier, and make it smoother for high-end pro users to slowly let go and decouple from Apple.

It's 2011. Going through to 2015 clearly the path Apple is on is not directed at the pro market. Pro users will use Apple where it is suitable and Apple will try to accommodate but only where possible.

The winds have changed. I don't think it's a bad thing, it's just been a shocking thing, and I empathise with the absolute frustration some people experienced... with so many of us (pros and "non-pros") having fought so hard for Apple in their personal, professional and public lives for years and years.

But tech is a moving beast. In 1999 I had to put together an important presentation for my undergraduate final year project. They had iMacs at the time and Microsoft PowerPoint for Mac. I wanted to make it a multimedia-infused spectacle since ironically that was what I was interested in rather than Biology which was my major and the focus of the presentation. Long story short I carried my PC tower around with me with PowerPoint on it and managed to do the presentation smoothly. 10 years later and Apple's Keynote destroys PowerPoint completely. I was shocked at how PowerPoint 2010 was constantly crashing on both my VMWare Fusion and on other colleagues' Windows laptops stuffed to the brim with bloatware and and all kinds of lagginess. PowerPoint 2010 for Windows also has trouble embedding videos into the presentation file itself resulting in annoying re-linking and ensuring assets are in the same folder.

Hearing Apple is now "cheaper" than other brands... well, will take some time to get used to. Realising that Apple isn't the de facto "pro" choice will take an even longer time to get used to. Though we must remember there's always been Avid, Discreet and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

Hopefully Apple has learned something from this experience. They have to listen more and they have to be less rash with professional products. Consumers may want a 'faster horse', but professionals know their industries. I applaud Apple shaking off the cobwebs of legacy from NLE but they had to do it more sensitively.

A free trial of Final Cut Pro X at launch would have taken much of the sting out of what happened. Telling everyone prior to launch that there was a lot missing, it was coming, and that professionals would be better off sticking with Final Cut Pro 7 for the time being and treating Final Cut Pro X as a training tool for future projects would have taken almost all the sting out.

That, of course, required not declaring the industry standard NLE suite end of life.

Apple's Achilles heal is a lack of listening. It's what makes them great sometimes, they go their own way, but when taken too far it gets them into sticky situations like this.

That said, the reaction to FCPX was absurd and hopefully adding in some of this functionality will help recover some of the software's reputation.
post #88 of 113
Honestly I don't think FCP was ever really intended to take over the Pro market. FCP has never been good enough to really replace a fully decked out Avid with all of its bell's and whistles.

When the first version of FCP was released. It was really just a small and nimble NLE. It didn't have all the bells and whistles (or the cost) of Avid. It was more feature rich than Premiere. I think it was intended to do what it did well. That's pretty much all its ever been.

Today I think it is the same. It is a small nimble NLE that is not attempting to directly compete with Avid or Premiere. Its doing it own thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

It's 2011. Going through to 2015 clearly the path Apple is on is not directed at the pro market. Pro users will use Apple where it is suitable and Apple will try to accommodate but only where possible.
post #89 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut View Post

The "oh we will include this" is just goodwill PR, maybe T.Cook's first major decision is a change in Apple PR. The guy's gay after all so he shoud be better with the "nice emotion" stuff.

Tim and Randy having a little pillow talk.

Randy: You know Tim, I could stick those files in a database. That would be really hot!

Tim: I've got something really hot I could stick some place too!

Randy: OMG you are such an animal. I like it!

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post #90 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

So, no one's going to mention that the ability to open a FCP 7 file requires a $400 plugin?

Link?

Where did you see that? I saw no announced capability by Apple or anyone to open or import an FCP 7 project into FCPX.
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post #91 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I think what Apple is learned is that it probably will have to continue on its path towards sitting on the consumer/prosumer side of things. They just have to make the transition easier, and make it smoother for high-end pro users to slowly let go and decouple from Apple.

It's 2011. Going through to 2015 clearly the path Apple is on is not directed at the pro market. Pro users will use Apple where it is suitable and Apple will try to accommodate but only where possible.

The winds have changed. I don't think it's a bad thing, it's just been a shocking thing, and I empathise with the absolute frustration some people experienced... with so many of us (pros and "non-pros") having fought so hard for Apple in their personal, professional and public lives for years and years.

But tech is a moving beast. In 1999 I had to put together an important presentation for my undergraduate final year project. They had iMacs at the time and Microsoft PowerPoint for Mac. I wanted to make it a multimedia-infused spectacle since ironically that was what I was interested in rather than Biology which was my major and the focus of the presentation. Long story short I carried my PC tower around with me with PowerPoint on it and managed to do the presentation smoothly. 10 years later and Apple's Keynote destroys PowerPoint completely. I was shocked at how PowerPoint 2010 was constantly crashing on both my VMWare Fusion and on other colleagues' Windows laptops stuffed to the brim with bloatware and and all kinds of lagginess. PowerPoint 2010 for Windows also has trouble embedding videos into the presentation file itself resulting in annoying re-linking and ensuring assets are in the same folder.

Hearing Apple is now "cheaper" than other brands... well, will take some time to get used to. Realising that Apple isn't the de facto "pro" choice will take an even longer time to get used to. Though we must remember there's always been Avid, Discreet and so on.

Great story and couldn't agree more that Keynote blows PowerPoint away. It's embarrassing how much MS have treaded water over the past decade. IMO Pages is a far better Word Processor than Word also. I had to write an 80 page report on a conference once using Word. I had beautiful photography, great quotes, good stationary and Word just made it a nightmare. Putting a drop cap on one page would cause chaos and then be find in the next instance. Pages is a joy to use in comparison.

I hear what you're saying about Final Cut, but I do think it's premature. I don't think Apple intend for FCPX to be a prosumer application. I think they intend to build it back up to what FCP7 was but without the limitations that could not otherwise be overcome.

FCP7 had a glass ceiling. It had to be re-written and if you're going to re-write, a creative person also rethinks. Apple did that. I think in 5 years Avid and Adobe will look very archaic next to a FCPX architecture with 5 years of maturity behind it. In 2011 it looks bare and prosumer. In 2012, 13, 14, 20 it will have multicam, 3rd-party plugins a-plenty, established industry XSAN workflows etc. We'll see then how it's viewed. It might just be ahead of the curve, not off on a tangent.

IMO all that is happening now is the pain of a transition that might take months or years. The gripe I would have with Apple is that I don't think they care about that pain. Apple see the horizon they are headed to and are often blinkered to the carnage that might be going on in the more immediate proximity.

They terminated Carbon, they terminated Rosetta, they terminated OSX classic, they terminated XServe (for a while), they terminated FCP7 project support etc. It's Apple's way. They look at the long term game. It's what makes them so bloody good, and so frustrating at the same time.
post #92 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

So, no one's going to mention that the ability to open a FCP 7 file requires a $400 plugin?

Final Cut Pro 7 cost $999. You made quite a saving.
post #93 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I think what Apple is learned is that it probably will have to continue on its path towards sitting on the consumer/prosumer side of things. They just have to make the transition easier, and make it smoother for high-end pro users to slowly let go and decouple from Apple.

It's 2011. Going through to 2015 clearly the path Apple is on is not directed at the pro market. Pro users will use Apple where it is suitable and Apple will try to accommodate but only where possible.

The winds have changed. I don't think it's a bad thing, it's just been a shocking thing, and I empathise with the absolute frustration some people experienced... with so many of us (pros and "non-pros") having fought so hard for Apple in their personal, professional and public lives for years and years.

Larry Jordan says the Apple attitude is (emphasis mine):

Quote:
APPLE’S KEY POINTS
As our meeting began, I asked what were the key points Apple wanted to convey with this upgrade. The answers were instantaneous:

1. Apple is committed to the professional user.
2. Apple is listening to user feedback and adding major new features far faster than they could do in the past.[

Full Details: Apple Updates Final Cut Pro X

I say, we give Apple the opportunity to perform or fail!
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post #94 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Larry Jordan says the Apple attitude is (emphasis mine):



Full Details: Apple Updates Final Cut Pro X

I say, we give Apple the opportunity to perform or fail!

Thanks for the link. Interesting that he also makes the point that these new features are only of interest to professionals. An iMovie editor is not going to care about stems and XML. That's an important point.
post #95 of 113
Are you able to import Motion X files into Final Cut Pro X? As of Final Cut Pro 10.0 you were not able to do so.
post #96 of 113
Yes. Final Cut pro x..

Instead "bitching" I recommend many of the "pros" to try this software. It i a total new software, and yes, it is not Imovie, it is intuitive and the learning curve is faster than the old version.

So far anybody who I know and has put this Final cut to a serious test are finding out that this is really a new generation of editing, for the price, it is the best editing software on the market...and it is for pros...who are not afraid of change..

George
post #97 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Are you able to import Motion X files into Final Cut Pro X? As of Final Cut Pro 10.0 you were not able to do so.

Yes you can its just a bit different (don't be scared!)
In Motion you publish as a template and in FCPX you will find it under Generators.
Easy peasy!
post #98 of 113
Speaking of Motion, there has been virtually zero discussion of the new version. Is that because it's working as advertised, or just that nobody uses it?
post #99 of 113
To be honest, that is total bollocks from Apple!

FCP X 10 worked fine, now Apple are telling me that my graphics card is not good enough for the 10.1 update - what has changed then?

This means that I can never ever update FCP X in future.
post #100 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

Final Cut Pro 7 cost $999. You made quite a saving.

Final Cut Studio 3 was $999, containing a full suite of applications.

Final Cut Pro 7
Motion 4
Soundtrack Pro 3
Color 1.5
Compressor 3.5
DVD Studio Pro 4
post #101 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

A Prius is an excellent bargain at $35K if what you need to do is run errands - you'll save lots of money on gas. But if you need to transport bags of cement and concrete block, it is a complete waste of money because it can't do the job.

If you're calling FCP 7 files "bags of cement", you'll pay the money to convert them into usable documents in FCP X if you're a pro. If you're a video hobbyist, what are you doing using FCP anyway?

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post #102 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

If you're calling FCP 7 files "bags of cement", you'll pay the money to convert them into usable documents in FCP X if you're a pro. If you're a video hobbyist, what are you doing using FCP anyway?

No the reference was to "Heavy Duty" like with a construction crew not a solo freelancer like what FCPX was designed for. Believe it or not we do use multi-cam for our lectures and the subtitle plug in we need doesn't exist for FCPX either.

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post #103 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No the reference was to "Heavy Duty" like with a construction crew not a solo freelancer like what FCPX was designed for. Believe it or not we do use multi-cam for our lectures and the subtitle plug in we need doesn't exist for FCPX either.

But you are aware that Apple has already promised those features (at least the multi-cam portion) for early 2012 delivery?

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post #104 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

But you are aware that Apple has already promised those features (at least the multi-cam portion) for early 2012 delivery?


Indeed we will try it soon but in the mean time it does not meet our requirements at all without harping on the non-backward compatibility which we have always taken for granted until now.

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post #105 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Indeed we will try it soon but in the mean time it does not meet our requirements at all without harping on the non-backward compatibility which we have always taken for granted until now.

Perfectly understandable. I'm just sticking with my current Final Cut Studio until early 2012. I do like a lot of the new features in Motion 5.

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post #106 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megawatt View Post

Final Cut Studio 3 was $999, containing a full suite of applications.

Final Cut Pro 7
Motion 4
Soundtrack Pro 3
Color 1.5
Compressor 3.5
DVD Studio Pro 4

Fair point but Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5 and Compressor 4 can all be bought for less than £300 (don't know dollars in this case). It's a great deal cheaper, that's the point.
post #107 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by macapptraining View Post

Oh, and I love the new Full-Screen view!

Imagine how nice it would look on a properly calibrated broadcast monitor.
post #108 of 113
Apple seems to have a habit of buying or inheriting pro apps, then dumbing them down for pro-sumers (i.e. amateurs). They bought FCP from Macromedia and now we have FCPX. They bought Shake and now we have Motion X. The void left by FCP is being filled by Avid and the void left by Shake is being filled by Nuke.

Not to mention killing Xserve then rebadging minis as servers. What a joke. How are people supposed to stream their fantastic FCPX MotionX videos without reliable server-class hardware?

I'm not trying to troll here, but if Apple really wants to make 'pro' or enterprise products they need someone on the board who is focused on that. Maybe now that Mr Minimalist is gone there will be room for real pro products instead of diluting the term down to a joke.
post #109 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Hmmm - Conrad Joe has only been a member since this month and already over 200 posts. Can we maybe say "professional troll"? Besides the fact that he is clueless. It didn't take Apple "years" to introduce cut and paste, and to not think that Apple already had most of these new features planned is just plain stupid. Especially with how quickly they were released. Once again, Apple changes the paradigm of how we work, and we have the whinners and fools rearing their heads.j This was version ONE of a totally new, and complex, editing system. Get over yourself.

FreeRange stop trolling. Professionals' complaints are valid and just because you don't work in that space (or may never) doesn't invalidate our concerns. So quit your bitching about others' bitching.

FWIW stems export is a finishing step for a mixed show heading to foreign markets, not any kind of valid path to a final mix. Get that right please, everyone.
post #110 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by procapital View Post

Yes. Final Cut pro x..

Instead "bitching" I recommend many of the "pros" to try this software. It i a total new software, and yes, it is not Imovie, it is intuitive and the learning curve is faster than the old version.

So far anybody who I know and has put this Final cut to a serious test are finding out that this is really a new generation of editing, for the price, it is the best editing software on the market...and it is for pros...who are not afraid of change..

George

Dude, did Steve Job's RDF group give you another batch of kool-aid? Go ahead and explain to me how for example the color correction tools are just as good, if not better than those in the stand alone Color app, let alone in Final Cut Pro 7.
post #111 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Commenting on the update with Jim Dalrymple of The Loop on Tuesday, Richard Townhill, senior director of applications marketing at Apple, said the features were added after the company received feedback from its users.

"We listened to the pros and have taken their top feature requests and put them in this update," Townhill said.

But, what about:

Apple doesn't need to listen to users.

Apple was going to provide those features anyway. All those complainers were just wasting their time.
post #112 of 113
Why does someone need their own server when we have Vimeo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Not to mention killing Xserve then rebadging minis as servers. What a joke. How are people supposed to stream their fantastic FCPX MotionX videos without reliable server-class hardware?
post #113 of 113
Yea, I mean why doesn't Apple put all their videos on Vimeo? Also, why have a server for encoding videos when I could tie up an iMac which may or may not be working when I need it to?

Your comment exemplifies why Apple should strip the 'pro' out of their products.
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