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Apple TV Take 3?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I fell in love with Cotton when I first saw it on the iCloud login page. It's just gorgeous; way better than Linen.

Cotton got me thinking, too. Mainly about Lowtide on the Apple TV and why it's so hideous. Maybe the name is a direct descriptor. At low tide, you see all sorts of disgusting things.

It's high time for HighTide. Reinvent the television experience, Apple.

So then I thought, hey, they didn't redesign iOS for the iPad, did they. Would it be so bad if they didn't have a separate UI design for the Apple TV?

And I don't think so. We'll see.

Sorry that these images screw with the forum's formatting; I'm not going to post them smaller because that defeats their purpose (and I'd love for some people to test out these images at the proper resolution on their TVs for feedback, but we'll get to that later).



So here's the Home Screen. The main one you see when the Apple TV comes on or wakes from sleep. It's pretty darn familiar to anyone using iOS, with a few changes and additions.

The icons are huge. They should be; it's a ten-foot interface. Their titles are 36pt. I didn't figure having anything smaller would be good (feedback request: Am I right?) for a title.

Since it's not touch based, I used a simple highlight to distinguish what option is selected. It's VERY simple; I'm still working on better solutions (feedback request: Anyone have a guide as to how I can make the highlight look prettier and more visually differentiable? I want something subtle. Something that doesn't blare from your periphery when you're not looking at it but is readily apparent when you are).

Use the Apple Remote to move between them, obviously. When you hit the left edge of the screen, it slides over and lets you search, just like iOS.



I'm not done with this part of the UI, obviously. Here's my plan: The search screen'll look pretty much exactly the current Apple TV's, the same keypad style on the left with intelligent suggestions for what you're typing on the right. (feedback request: Does that note at the bottom sound Apple-y to you? I thought it did, and I would personally LOVE to have that feature right now…)

I'll come back to why I'm not done with this (or the rest of the UI, for that matter).

Anyway, back to the Home Screen. You have your standard options, of course. I elected to NOT make the entire Home Screen about buying stuff from Apple. So Music is YOUR music on a connected computer. Movies is YOUR movies on a connected computer. Photos is those on your computer ALONGSIDE photos in a set up account from iCloud. If there are duplicates, it doesn't show them, but you can differentiate to see only iCloud photos or only those on your computer. It's seamless.

iTunes is the iTunes Store. That's music, movies, TV shows, and Channels. We'll get to Channels. YouTube's YouTube, (these are fairly straightforward), Flickr's Flickr, Vimeo's Vimeo, and those are all the ones preloaded.



Oh, here we are, Channels. The icon is based on the silhouette of the layout of the Apple Remote (cue people looking down at their hands and going, "Oooooohhhhh…"). I wanted to come up with something visually distinct from the iTunes Store icon, the App Store icon, the iTunes Connect icon, and the Downloads icon while retaining the same feel as the purposes of those other Apple icons (feedback request: So? How about it? Do you like this icon?). Channels is my name for Apple's solution to take down cable/satellite/traditional TV. It's not live streaming of a television channel. Oh, heavens no. Channels is when-you-want streaming of any show on that channel.

Think Netflix on a per-channel basis.

Aside: Actually, know what? I like my original idea for this better, so I'll explain that, too. My original idea for Channels was this: You pay for the shows you want to watch. Just the shows, not the entire channel's worth of crap. Then you can stream any episode of that show anytime you want. I like that. So if you want to read the rest of my explanation like that, imagine that the shows auto-categorize themselves under the name of the channel on which they originally aired.

So when you buy channels from the Channels Store, they show up on the Home Screen like depicted here. Watch their stuff on a when-you-want basis. New episodes of shows are released at the same time as when they actually air on the old-style television channels. The clock at the top left can keep you in tune with those releases, though when one appears, it will get its own badge on the Channel's icon. (feedback request: How's that for an idea? Any good? I realize it's more 'Apple actually getting the licensing deals' to get something like that to happen than actually being able to provide feedback on the idea itself, but they already sort of have them now with TV shows. I guess I'm requesting any additional feedback you have at this point).

So what happens when you have a lot of Channels? Click far enough right on the first Home Screen, and you reach other ones. Boom. Just like iOS.

Aside:For all of you (including me) who like the buy-and-then-watch-when-you-want idea but on a per-SHOW basis and not entire traditional channels of programming, the multiple Home Screen idea becomes even better. You're then not diving down into menu after menu (which is better from a usability standpoint), but also, again, affords you the ability to not have to search through a bunch of crap shows you'll never watch and only ever see (and therefore quickly navigate and view).

Now for the bottom of the Springboard. What's this? The Ticker! It tickers along, just like a standard news show post-9/11, but instead of news, it tickers about applications updates and notifications. Neat, huh? And unlike a standard news ticker that you can't do anything with ("Oh, wait, that said something about the leader of… frick, I missed half of it."), the Ticker is dynamic (Oh, right, before we go any further, for my U.S. readers, did you know that–in Ireland, at least–news tickers scroll the same thing past twice in a row? That way if you miss part of it, you get to see it again. I like that. But that's beside the point here and unnecessary given what I just said).

You can navigate with your Apple Remote down to the Ticker just like any app or Channel. When you do, the ticker stops tickering. You can then press left or right to cycle between all the available stories in the Ticker. Back to ones that have already scrolled past and forward to ones you've yet to see. To get back to your Channels and apps, just press up on the Apple Remote.



Each story in the Ticker receives its own little highlight, too, so you always know where you are. That's secondary, though, to the other UI that appears when you navigate to the Ticker. When you rest on a story for a second or so, it pulls up a more descriptive notification about what it's saying. Like this.

Now, these'll be different for every app and channel. They'll be designed by the creators of the Channel or Apple (if it's an app), filled with relevant information that they believe you'd want to see as a secondary viewing (the primary being the content of the Ticker itself, and the tertiary being the clickthrough to the app/Channel itself) Here's another example of what one would look like. When you've found a Ticker story with which you want to interact, just select it and you'll be sent to the proper page on that channel.

So for example, with the ESPN one, the game is available for viewing, as are highlights. Click the story in the Ticker, and you'll be sent to the ESPN Channel's page for that game, which will have at least two options: one to view the game proper and another to view the highlights and post-game commentary.



And selecting the notification from the Channels app in the Ticker will take you to the update page in the Channels app where you can download the new Vimeo update.

Oh, another thing. Again, not done with it, but I just want to show you how the UI differentiates itself more than a completed version (not the truth: I'll get to that in the end).

See the Apple logo at the top of the Home Screen? Not just posturing. Vital (feedback request: And subtle? I want it to be fairly subtle) navigation information. When you're on a Home Screen, you see the Apple logo.



When you're on a page internal to a Channel, you see the Channel's logo. Now I know you're hoping for another feedback request right now. And I'm torn with just outright asking for one, so hear me out before you tear this choice apart.

Yes, I could have gone with a Folder-style look for the shows in each Channel (or just said, "Let the people who created the channel be responsible for their own background design!"), but I didn't. And I had reasons. I first tried the Folder look here, and it didn't work. No, I didn't just use the straight iOS folder background (Dark Linen), I tried it with the normal Linen (the light version) for visual differentiation. I also didn't do it iOS-style. I did it Lion-style. I just didn't like how small the icons had to be, one, and two, I didn't like how it made the UI look. Just didn't feel right.

Now, about letting the Channel creator do their own backgrounds. I DO like that idea, but to have it implemented in a way that is… good; bunching stuff up by old-style channel isn't going to work. If Channels are (as my asides have described) on a show-by-show basis, then allowing the creator to come up with their own backdrop is very, very tempting, and is an incredibly simple way to have stark visual differentiation between menus and submenus (the Home Screen and Channels, in this case).

Anyway, a Channel's interface. This is assuming that a bunch of shows from an old-style channel are grouped together. Since I've been selling the other idea so hard, you might not like this anymore (good), but here it is, anyway.

Basically the same as a Home Screen, the title's 36pt and the subtitle showing content availability is in 24pt. That's as small as I wanted to have anything on the screen for a ten-foot interface, and so it's as small as anything will ever be once I finish this up (feedback request: Again, is that about right? Anyone with more UI design experience than myself, feel free to chime in).

Now, about why it's so threadbare. I'm looking for the current Apple TV's UI elements. The individual elements. Not screenshots to be torn apart, hideously given transparency, and then plopped down onto these mockups. No, no. The actual elements. The shape of a key, the shape of a button, the images used for such and such.

Does anyone know where to get those? Can they be extracted from an IPSW file? I have the iPhone 4's Retina UI elements JUST LIKE what I want, but for the LIFE of me, I can't remember where I got them.





You know, like this. Actual elements. That way I can keep building out the rest of the interface to have something truly presentable.

And that's it. Sorry for the long read, but I wanted to explain it as best I could.

Please, if you would, try out these images on your TV. Use your current Apple TV if you so choose to project them, but I'd love to see people's reactions to the UI design as a whole and elements individually in a proper living room 1920x1080 setting. Also, please ask me questions. "Why is this like this?" and such. Outside questions like that will make me see things I wouldn't normally. Give me suggestions. "Make those smaller." "Change the color on that." "Start from scratch, my dog got paint on his testicles once and where he rubbed them on our patio looked better than this."

TEAR. ME. A. NEW. ONE. The past few years have made me absolutely hate myself and have destroyed all self-confidence I once had in any of my abilities, so I don't figure that any of this is any good. I want to get better. I want to know how to design good UI. Anything you have for me would be great.

I want to learn. Once upon a time, I thought I had a spark. I'd like that back.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #2 of 14
Thread Starter 
200 views… even if no one read everything, I'll assume that there has been at least one complete read through if I add them all together.

Okay, you don't have to read everything; just read a bit and comment on that.

I'm more concerned about UI design right now. Once I get that finished (through your suggestions and acquiring the Apple TV UIImages I need), then we can discuss what we think Apple would and wouldn't do about how Channels and streaming video is concerned.

Right now I don't care about that. I just want to make a better UI than LowTide.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #3 of 14
Tallest Skull,
Firstly, I hope the cotton background is the foundation-style for Mac OS X.8 and iOS 6, I love it.

Secondly, if iOS for Apple TV was updated to look like that, I would muster up the £100 and just go out and buy it. Providing it also had an App Store (gonna need that one).

Thirdly, I think I'll be more excited by the hardware changes in a third gen. Dual-core 1.3ghz Apple A5, PowerVR 543MPC iGPU and 1GB of RAM. Maybe perhaps a Thunderbolt port (getting rid of that ridiculous Mini-USB port)... One can dream.

Finally, I think you did some good illustrations here, I definitely agree with the direction you point the Apple TV to.

(P.S. If you didn't notice, I liked you'd idea )
post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

200 views even if no one read everything, I'll assume that there has been at least one complete read through

The large images made reading the post quite difficult, it's better to post links to the full-size images with ones formatted at no bigger than 800 pixels wide inline.

Also, some people won't be entirely sure what you are posting about - you are trying to change the current lowtide UI on the Apple TV, which looks like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrneVGNNENc

into a more iOS-style UI with icons to navigate and a news ticker for notifications.

Overall, I think it looks quite nice but there are a few considerations to make knowing it's on a TV and being navigated using a remote.

The large text size for titles makes sense and 36pt looks like a good choice.

For the select-state, it has to be clear from across the room and a glow doesn't distinguish enough from the icon. There should probably be a change made to the only part that has the same style across all the icons, which is the text. It can possibly be surrounded by a bubble like this:



On the search page, the message isn't too bad but does seem a bit out of place. It should only show up if you aren't using one of those devices already and I think Apple words things a bit more decisively. So rather than saying "you may also use", I'd expect them to say something like "Connect an iOS device or bluetooth keyboard for faster typing" but even then, it's lacking on how to connect one.

I don't like the channels icon because I think it was made for the wrong reasons - it doesn't symbolise channels but a specific remote control. I'd say an icon of an old-fashioned TV would symbolise channels more closely - it would be like the Youtube one but I'd say the Youtube one should be the actual Youtube icon.

I like the idea with the icon at the top of the screens to show the hoe page but with more spacing around them. I would agree with using separate areas over folders but I'm not sure about the whole idea of having channel apps. It's like how in Windows they put games in your programs folder listed by publisher as if I'm supposed to remember which publisher makes which games. I think it would be best to have them per show as it is makes more sense for custom backgrounds. Imagine a Simpsons app on the home page and you click it and it has the whole yellow styling and there would be folders per season. Then each icon per show can simply have the little red dot to show new episodes.

Concerning payments, I personally think they should go the route of pay-per-minute. I know the TV providers might not like it but basically you never buy anything outright. You just watch like TV and get charged a minute rate. This may be pre-paid to avoid paying too much. The rate can go down the more content you watch from the same channel.

This removes any barriers to discoverability because you don't have to commit to buying a show you might not like. You just start watching and get charged for what you watch. Same with re-runs, you might just want to watch a segment of an old show without renting the whole show.

Average TV viewing is something like 4 hours a day. So say 120 hours per month and people expect to pay about $40-60 per month = 30-50c per hour. Say you start at 1c per minute, that makes a typical TV show about 20-30c as opposed to 99c per rental. However, removing the commit-to-buy step means people will feel more at ease watching more content.
post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

200 views even if no one read everything, I'll assume that there has been at least one complete read through if I add them all together.

Okay, you don't have to read everything; just read a bit and comment on that.

I'm more concerned about UI design right now. Once I get that finished (through your suggestions and acquiring the Apple TV UIImages I need), then we can discuss what we think Apple would and wouldn't do about how Channels and streaming video is concerned.

Right now I don't care about that. I just want to make a better UI than LowTide.

Never read through the article because of that. In two short sentence what was your point?


As to streaming Apple will neve be successful at that as long as it stays out of production. They literally need another source of content to drive costs down. One not tied to networks, cable companies or Hollywood greed.
post #6 of 14
I'm not crazy about the iOS interface for the ATV.

The current interface is nice IMO.
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The large images made reading the post quite difficult, it's better to post links to the full-size images with ones formatted at no bigger than 800 pixels wide inline.

Also, some people won't be entirely sure what you are posting about .

I've had an interest in Apple TV but usually only view this forum at lunch so my time is limited. I have not had any experience with ATV but do use Elgato's iTV and Windows Media Center on my PC. I watch over the air broadcast HD channels and frequently record shows I can't be home to watch. Windows Media Center has a very good UI for this purpose and watching movies I have on my hard drive.

If ATV had that functionality in an easy to use UI I'd buy it today. Not sure if it has a built in TV tuner but that would be mandatory for me as well as the ability to use the unit as a PVR.

I've always liked Apple's approach to its user interfaces but do like what I see in the O.P.'s post. If I could get rid of that Elgato iTV dongle and use ATV instead I would.

I've recently downloaded PLEX and plan to give that a try. Looking through it briefly though the other night didn't give me any warm and fuzzy's!
post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by p40whk View Post

If ATV had that functionality in an easy to use UI I'd buy it today. Not sure if it has a built in TV tuner but that would be mandatory for me as well as the ability to use the unit as a PVR.

I actually agree with Apple's design choice for the ATV to be streaming-only. An HDD and TV tuner could add another $100 to the cost and there's the issue of failed drives needing replaced. Over 8GB flash storage is an option but you'd only get a small amount and the price would still be higher.

This device IMO is the best design for a set-top box. It uses very little power being based on mobile phone components, it's very small and it only tries to do the core function, which is the best function of a set-top box - connecting you to instant-on media, which helps coerce people away from illegal downloads and waiting for downloads.

PVR functionality should be in the cloud. You shouldn't have to rely on your box being able to store your show and chopping off the end because the schedule got messed up. Modern PVRs tend to be smarter about recording but they can still screw up.

PVR also keeps TV in the control of the networks instead of under your control. Video on demand is a better system that lets you get the shows you want when you want. Not having to sit through loads of advertising on top of paying for content.

A PVR is a solution to a failure of the network to give you the show on your time. The real solution is to fix the issue altogether so that when you sit down to watch content, you choose what you want from a selection.

The big problem is making this profitable. People just wouldn't want to pay $2-3 at every sitting yet are happy to pay a subscription because you don't see it coming off. Paying a subscription might work but networks will make less money. I think pay-per-minute is the best way to go as it means the network gets their money directly for what you watch, it allows you to watch without committing to buy one show and you never see the money coming off just like a subscription. You can have a top-up balance to be able to assess how much is going out every month.

This way, there's no need for a PVR. Every show should just be there for you to watch at any time. The networks need to be more flexible in using different methods to deliver content so that services like the ATV get the content volume.
post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I actually agree with Apple's design choice for the ATV to be streaming-only. An HDD and TV tuner could add another $100 to the cost and there's the issue of failed drives needing replaced. Over 8GB flash storage is an option but you'd only get a small amount and the price would still be higher.

This device IMO is the best design for a set-top box. It uses very little power being based on mobile phone components, it's very small and it only tries to do the core function, which is the best function of a set-top box - connecting you to instant-on media, which helps coerce people away from illegal downloads and waiting for downloads.

PVR functionality should be in the cloud. You shouldn't have to rely on your box being able to store your show and chopping off the end because the schedule got messed up. Modern PVRs tend to be smarter about recording but they can still screw up.

PVR also keeps TV in the control of the networks instead of under your control. Video on demand is a better system that lets you get the shows you want when you want. Not having to sit through loads of advertising on top of paying for content.

A PVR is a solution to a failure of the network to give you the show on your time. The real solution is to fix the issue altogether so that when you sit down to watch content, you choose what you want from a selection.

The big problem is making this profitable. People just wouldn't want to pay $2-3 at every sitting yet are happy to pay a subscription because you don't see it coming off. Paying a subscription might work but networks will make less money. I think pay-per-minute is the best way to go as it means the network gets their money directly for what you watch, it allows you to watch without committing to buy one show and you never see the money coming off just like a subscription. You can have a top-up balance to be able to assess how much is going out every month.

This way, there's no need for a PVR. Every show should just be there for you to watch at any time. The networks need to be more flexible in using different methods to deliver content so that services like the ATV get the content volume.

While I see where you're coming from, I think that there are too many hang ups within the industry for this to actually happen any time soon.

Thus, I will stick with my PVR solution that has worked very well for me. I have no problems fast forwarding through unwanted content. Storage can be, and for me, is on an external drive since I'm using a MAC mini. The Elgato iTV USB Dongle is plenty small enough as a TV tuner that Apple could integrate one into ATV.

I'm a big fan of less is more when it comes to cable management in my media center. Getting everything into one box with as few connections to my stereo for audio and to my TV for video is a plus for me.

With that said, TV to me includes everything I watch on my screen which includes broadcast content. I don't want to have to turn off one box and turn on another just to watch TV, I should be able to switch between streaming content and TV within the same unit. I'm not a big Windows fan but do admit that Windows Media Center software is very user friendly and does just that, a lot that ATV does not.
post #10 of 14
I got lost at the very beginning. With that said though...

The current ATV, I really like! The interface that is above makes me think of a touch screen and would probably make my 2 year old think the same thing. Though I don't entirely like the interface for the ATV, I don't think everything needs to look like the iOS either.

As far as I am concerned, I just wish that I could hide the things I don't want on the ATV. We have hundreds of movies and tons of TV shows stored on our network at home. We occasionally rent a movie via ATV. We listen to music and use youtube with our 2 year old (he likes trains). I want to get ride of Netflix and all the other internet things we don't need.

When the time comes, I would even upgrade to a new ATV just for the hardware upgrade!
post #11 of 14
looks nice

it would also be great if the allowed Airplay Mirroring from a Mac so we can get big Full HD monitor. there was too much to read there... so if you touched upon this already, sorry
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So then I thought, hey, they didn't redesign iOS for the iPad, did they. Would it be so bad if they didn't
have a separate UI design for the Apple TV?

And I don't think so. We'll see.

I like your reasoning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Sorry that these images screw with the forum's formatting; I'm not going to post them smaller because that defeats their purpose
(and I'd love for some people to test out these images at the proper resolution on their TVs for feedback, but we'll get to that later).

No need to apologize, as you state this is the way to present it and make your point come across.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

http://i.imgur.com/Gsyk5.jpg

So here's the Home Screen. The main one you see when the Apple TV comes on or wakes from sleep. It's pretty darn familiar to anyone using iOS, with a few
changes and additions.

The icons are huge. They should be; it's a ten-foot interface. Their titles are 36pt. I didn't figure having anything smaller would be good (feedback request:
Am I right?) for a title.

Since it's not touch based, I used a simple highlight to distinguish what option is selected. It's VERY simple; I'm still working on better solutions (feedback
request:
Anyone have a guide as to how I can make the highlight look prettier and more visually differentiable? I want something subtle. Something that doesn't
blare from your periphery when you're not looking at it but is readily apparent when you are).

Use the Apple Remote to move between them, obviously. When you hit the left edge of the screen, it slides over and lets you search, just like iOS.

I copied the URL to my Mini and watched this post on my 37" HDTV. Of course that didn't truly make it the experience with all the forums formatting so I opened a
few pictures in Preview and showed them fullscreen. Hmm, at first I thought the canvas wasn't the best choice since I can 'discern the pixels' but after looking at it
from 3m/10ft I think you made the right decision. It looks good, but in the middle is just isn't great as there are highlights in there that look a bit like it's pixelated
(or whatever the right word is here).

I don't think the weather widget is 'needed' as I have an iPad lying on the table or couch to control my Mini and if I want to know what the weather is I'll grab that, or
my iPhone. The clock is good thinking and nicely simplistic done. The Apple logo mid-top reminds me of the Rhapsody days and made me want to click it (!)

I think the size of the icons is good, certainly do not make them bigger. The 36pt title is large enough, the 'caption line' for the number of episodes and such might
be too small for people without 20/20 vision. I'm fortunate and still don't wear glasses but the smaller line might be a little too small for those who do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

http://i.imgur.com/oLwkK.jpg

I'm not done with this part of the UI, obviously. Here's my plan: The search screen'll look pretty much exactly the current Apple TV's, the same keypad style on the
left with intelligent suggestions for what you're typing on the right. (feedback request: Does that note at the bottom sound Apple-y to you? I thought it did,
and I would personally LOVE to have that feature right now)

I'll come back to why I'm not done with this (or the rest of the UI, for that matter).

Would love to see what improvements you come up with. I think the spotlight search is great, but with the screen mostly blank you might want to add something to
it. Perhaps latest additions to users iTunes library or ... I don't know, latest purchases, whatever.

Sorry that I don't respond to all your ideas, too little time. Did read it all, and like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I want to learn. Once upon a time, I thought I had a spark. I'd like that back.

Sorry to hear you think you lost it. Doesn't look to be the case to me, but of course you know how you feel. All I can say is that with your informative posts, and
particular with this one you are on your way to get that spark back, even though I believe you already have it, otherwise this post/work would not be read by us all.
For that, I thank you.

Cheers,
PhiBoogie
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
Reply
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
Reply
post #13 of 14
I am in awe. Amazing, perfect, spot-on. So incredibly sensible.

PLEASE let someone at Apple be reading your post (and smacking themselves on the forehead)!
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I want to learn. Once upon a time, I thought I had a spark. I'd like that back.

I understand.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
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