or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Doubts cast on success of Amazon tablet, Android Ice Cream Sandwich vs. iPad
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Doubts cast on success of Amazon tablet, Android Ice Cream Sandwich vs. iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Debating whether an unannounced and unreleased tablet will fail/succeed is no better than flipping a coin. Actually, it's probably worse as they have a history of saying the wrong thing.

Wrong, flipping a coin gives you a 50-50 chance. The failure of every iPad competitor released so far logically implies an expected success rate of less than 50% for any new iPad competitor.

Saying 'no better than flipping a coin' is not the same as saying 'I don't know what the odds are'.

Innumeracy strikes again.
post #42 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

That was an interesting 2009 article, but it seemed to be just speculation based on the price reduction. It's hard to imagine why the iPhone would sell worse in Japan than elsewhere.

Oh c'mon... you know Gatorguy is anti iOS. He'd never tell you the whole story.

The iP4 is the top selling smartphone in Japan... and Softbank shares just slid over 10% on news that they would no longer be the sole carrier of the iPhone in Japan.

... and, yes, Android phones did surpass the iPhone in market share this past year. We'll see if that changes with iPhone 5. (iPhone took 38% of the Japanese market... one phone... 38%... impressive... and not slow selling by any means.)
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #43 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

That was an interesting 2009 article, but it seemed to be just speculation based on the price reduction. It's hard to imagine why the iPhone would sell worse in Japan than elsewhere.

Here are some more recent numbers for Japan handset sales(between Jan-Mar 2011)
http://m.techcrunch.com/2011/05/18/t...king-in-japan/

1. iPhone 4(16GB)
2. iPhone 4(32GB)
3. Samsung Galaxy S
4. Toshiba REGZA Phone T-01C
5. Sharp IS03
6. Sharp LYNX 3D SH-03C
7. Toshiba IS04
8. Panasonic P-07B
9. Sony Ericsson Xperia arc SO-01C
10. Kyocera Kantan Keitai K005
post #44 of 140
Android trolls must be really desperate since they feel the need to compare one Apple phone against every single Android phone ever made, and the iPhone still kicks any Android phone's ass, being the most popular phone.

The iPhone is like a luxury car and along comes a troll from Volkswagen, and their main talking point is to claim that every single Volkswagen car model sold more than that one particular luxury car. Well, congratufuckinglations!

But when it comes to comparing iOS VS Android, suddenly they're scared shitless and don't want iPads included.

Android users represent a microscopic and insignificant percentage of web users. Is it surprising that frugal people who end up with cheap Android phones don't actually use their phones much to actually browse the web?
post #45 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Actually there's been a few "free iPhone" deals with contract outside the US. IIRC there was one recently in North America as well. One of the higher profile examples is in Japan where the iPhone carrier has had an ongoing "free iPhone with contract" offer since back in 2009. Yet Android still manages to outsell the iPhone nearly 2:1 in Japan. I don't think it's all about the money all the time.

http://techcrunch.com/2009/02/26/iph...able-for-free/
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/free-iphones-al/

Ah, interesting. I thought that was something Apple put their foot down on, but I guess if they're getting paid either way they wouldn't mind.

Also though, and more specifically to America, Android can be found on all carriers while iPhone on just two, with one only offering it for a year now.

I just don't think you can compare the sales figures when the two things don't really compete on the same level, if that makes sense.
post #46 of 140
Fact: No single Android phone outsells the iPhone

Fact: All android phones are the market outsell the iPhone

Fact: Android OS is more widespread than the iPhone OS

Fact: Once again, no single android phone outsells the iPhone
post #47 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Oh c'mon... you know Gatorguy is anti iOS. He'd never tell you the whole story.

The iP4 is the top selling smartphone in Japan... .

But that's only because it's free. Everyone knows iPhone users are cheap and don't want to pay for anything.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #48 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

That has already been said, many times, but I've never seen any real analysis done.

Do you have any factual data to back up the assertion? I posted a cite which indicates that the best selling Android phones are the premium models, and not the free ones.

Do you have any evidence that "the majority of Android handsets are free"?

Speaking of Facts, do you have anything beyond a linked blog of some guys opinion?
post #49 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quash View Post

Fact: No single Android phone outsells the iPhone

Fact: All android phones are the market outsell the iPhone

Fact: Android OS is more widespread than the iPhone OS

Fact: Once again, no single android phone outsells the iPhone

Ok but if Apple made 10 different iphones, then that argument might make sense. They focus on one single device while Android sales are spread across other companies.

This really is like comparing apples to oranges. In the end, both are doing well, and developers are writing apps for both just fine. This whole discussion seems to be wanting to figure out who's best based on sales figures, but that's impossible lol.

Like imagine if I sold only chocolate icecream, and my competitor sold everything but chocolate. Everyone loves chocolate ice cream, but people want other options, so how can you say chocolate ice cream is best, or that the competitor's ice cream is best, based on how much is sold from either one of us?
post #50 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasimo View Post

Here are some more recent numbers for Japan handset sales(between Jan-Mar 2011)
http://m.techcrunch.com/2011/05/18/t...king-in-japan/

1. iPhone 4(16GB)
2. iPhone 4(32GB)
3. Samsung Galaxy S
4. Toshiba REGZA Phone T-01C
5. Sharp IS03
6. Sharp LYNX 3D SH-03C
7. Toshiba IS04
8. Panasonic P-07B
9. Sony Ericsson Xperia arc SO-01C
10. Kyocera Kantan Keitai K005

If this were the Olympics, Apple would win both the Gold and Silver, and then a fucking retarded Android troll would pop in and claim that having 5 or 6 phones in the top ten is actually better than being first.
post #51 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut View Post

Speaking of Facts, do you have anything beyond a linked blog of some guys opinion?

To be fair there's a lot of things that pass for "facts" here. Linking to a source has been one accepted standard of proof, no matter the reliability of the source . . . or his sources. Even rumor is sometimes good enough.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #52 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotScott View Post

So analysts should quit their jobs and become historians?

Yes. If they are really good at their jobs, then they should be keeping their forecasts to themselves and use it to make a killing in the stock market. It defies logic that an accurate stock forecaster is publishing his/her predictions.

I am not saying these so-called 'analysts' are totally useless. The reporting part of their job provides market-useful information to investors.
post #53 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

But that's only because it's free. Everyone knows iPhone users are cheap and don't want to pay for anything.

Does this look like free to you?

http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/iphone_en/p...rd_price_plan/
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #54 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Android trolls must be really desperate since they feel the need to compare one Apple phone against every single Android phone ever made, and the iPhone still kicks any Android phone's ass, being the most popular phone.

The iPhone is like a luxury car and along comes a troll from Volkswagen, and their main talking point is to claim that every single Volkswagen car model sold more than that one particular luxury car. Well, congratufuckinglations!

But when it comes to comparing iOS VS Android, suddenly they're scared shitless and don't want iPads included.

Android users represent a microscopic and insignificant percentage of web users. Is it surprising that frugal people who end up with cheap Android phones don't actually use their phones much to actually browse the web?

Jesus. You know, this discussion seemed to be completely cordial until you post this mindless bullshit.

The iPhone is like the luxury car? LOL. Iphone is nice, but you make it seem as though it's meant only for the rich. It's a normal phone, and comparing the operating systems is fine, because guess what? Android DOES compare very well to iOS. It's called competition, and Google isn't some stupid back alley programmer that is just barely keeping up. Both companies continue to make strides, and now with Windows Phone Mango in the mix, saying iOS is the luxury model is just APPLE TROLLS convincing themselves their devices are this way and there's no need to ever consider anything else.

You're literally no better than those you condemn.
post #55 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

If this were the Olympics, Apple would win both the Gold and Silver, and then a fucking retarded Android troll would pop in and claim that having 5 or 6 phones in the top ten is actually better than being first.

They have trolls at the Olympics?

I'd like to see that.

Jamaica comes first in bobsledding, and then Haiti and the Dominican Republic come in second and third and try to claim that because they're on the same island it counts as a greater success than Jamaica's.
post #56 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

If this were the Olympics, Apple would win both the Gold and Silver, and then a fucking retarded Android troll would pop in and claim that having 5 or 6 phones in the top ten is actually better than being first.

To an idiot, your comment makes sense. To a stock holder, they definitely won't mind taking up all the other spots.

Again, Apple has ONE DEVICE. These other companies running Android aren't just competing with the iPhone, but with each other as well.

This discussion is so absurdly stupid! These things can't be compared in a rational way because either side has their points that in their mind both make the comparison legitimate, and also make their side the winner.
post #57 of 140
"....but deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, they know they really just bought a copy. "

+1. for identifying a key distinction between the customer's user experience on the platforms.
post #58 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They have trolls at the Olympics?

I'd like to see that.

Jamaica comes first in bobsledding, and then Haiti and the Dominican Republic come in second and third and try to claim that because they're on the same island it counts as a greater success than Jamaica's.

Hell, if the island saw money from every person placed, that could be considered some sort of victory.

Now back on topic: Imagine if Apple supported a few different iPhones. One with a keyboard, one with a bigger screen, one with a smaller square screen, one with an emphasis on games, one with an emphasis on business. They probably would take up more spots on that list. I imagine a lot of Android users went with Android simply because they didn't like the iPhone for simple reasons like this.
post #59 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Does this look like free to you?

http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/iphone_en/p...rd_price_plan/

This one? Yes it does.
http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/iphone_en/p...value_program/
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #60 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Android phones are not a single unit you might compare Android to iOS, but please find some actual numbers

Android Is Destroying Everyone, Especially RIM -- iPhone Dead In Water

http://www.businessinsider.com/andro...t-share-2011-4
post #61 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailorPaul View Post

"....but deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, they know they really just bought a copy. "

+1. for identifying a key distinction between the customer's user experience on the platforms.

My 4 inch screen is a copy? My dual core processor with hdmi out is a copy? My 1080p video recording is a copy?

Wut?
post #62 of 140
deleted
post #63 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Hell, if the island saw money from every person placed, that could be considered some sort of victory.

Now back on topic: Imagine if Apple supported a few different iPhones. One with a keyboard, one with a bigger screen, one with a smaller square screen, one with an emphasis on games, one with an emphasis on business. They probably would take up more spots on that list. I imagine a lot of Android users went with Android simply because they didn't like the iPhone for simple reasons like this.

I agree. That's probably the biggest reason IMO.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #64 of 140
I don't think it's wise to liken the smartphone and tablet markets.

In the US and many other markets the phone purchase price is subsidized over the service contract life, making meaningful price comparisons tricky. Apple maintains strong control over resale pricing, whereas Android (and other) phone pricing is all over the map, depending on the carrier's deal of the day. What we do know is that Apple makes a boatload of money compared to everyone else in the smartphone world.

Tablets don't require a recurring service contract and so are sold at their "real" price. Despite its generous margins, Apple has shown itself to be entirely competitive in tablet pricing, generally superior in product design and with a higher quality product ecosystem. Right now you have to look hard to find a reason not to choose the iPad for your tablet purchase. This could change, but we're not seeing much sign of it so far.

A better market lesson might be in comparing the iPad to the original iPod. There were certainly other portable music players before the iPod, and some were cheaper, others arguably as good. But Apple brought a degree of refinement, value and convenience (the iTunes Music Store) to the portable music player market that nobody else was able to match, and in doing so gained such momentum that competitors were never able to get a significant foothold. (RIP Zune...)

From a pricing point of view Amazon has the potential to subsidize its rumoured tablet price through its e-book sales, just as it does the Kindle. But pay me now or pay me later: it's not clear what Amazon would really bring to the party.
post #65 of 140
"In order to allow the competition to catch up, Apple is going to freeze development of the current iPad. Tim Cook, Apple's CEO, mentioned that he is waiting to see how Windows 8, to be released in 2012, stacks up to the iPad today. Cook says he'll hold off on iOS 6.0 development until he sees what Windows 8 is all about."

"I like competition. To keep it fair and balanced, I'll match Windows 8 2012 with iOS 2011. It's the right thing to do, at least to appease these analysts who have no fuckin' idea what they're talking about," Cook added.
post #66 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

This one? Yes it does.
http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/iphone_en/p...value_program/

I'm not sure that is free. It looks like they are giving a monthly discount to premium users that "helps defrays" the cost of the handset over the period of the contract. All so that they can claim it is "effectively free". Or am I misunderstanding their cunning ploy?
post #67 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

This one? Yes it does.
http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/iphone_en/p...value_program/

Oh... and I knew you'd go there... just so that I could point out that the 32g model is not free... unlike the Android phones that are all free.

What was the 2nd best selling smartphone in Japan? Pardon... I can't hear you...
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #68 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Again, Apple has ONE DEVICE.

I was under the impression that Apple is currently marketing more than 10 different SKUs in the iPhone family. Anybody have the exact number?
post #69 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

If this were the Olympics, Apple would win both the Gold and Silver, and then a fucking retarded Android troll would pop in and claim that having 5 or 6 phones in the top ten is actually better than being first.

So much hate against Android. It's just a frickin' mobile OS for a phone! It's not out to murder your entire family. Both platforms arguably have their own pros and cons. It's actually mutually beneficial for both or more platforms to exist at the same time. I like both. Win8 looks promising too.
post #70 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I'm not sure that is free. It looks like they are giving a monthly discount to premium users that "helps defrays" the cost of the handset over the period of the contract. All so that they can claim it is "effectively free". Or am I misunderstanding their cunning ploy?

I really don't know for certain how they present it to a customer. A few customers who contracted with them would have to answer how it's marketed. In reality all the "free phone" offers are actually defrayed cost over the contract term. None are really free.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #71 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I was under the impression that Apple is currently marketing more than 10 different SKUs in the iPhone family. Anybody have the exact number?

If you want to pretend that that counts as multiple phones, I have no problem with you making a fool of yourself in the future.

Let's see, AT&T, Verizon, and unlocked, two capacities, and two colors.

Comes out to 12 models. Oh, and if you want to include the iPhone 3GS, go right ahead.
post #72 of 140
Sometimes my Apple news feeds make me laugh, other times they are just bothersome. This article would be one of the latter. The hubris seems to know no bounds.
post #73 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

There are no tablet experts. Nobody knows.

Not true, I'm a tablet expert and I say . . . oops, there's the phone, gotta go.
post #74 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCrizzo View Post

Price point is the key! If the Amazon tablet is cheap they will fly off the shelves! Not sure the OS will make a difference to the average consumer, I still think if they cost the same as the iPad then they will still purchase an iPad!

That is the key. If they can manufacture and sell $300 laptops with Windows (albeit low margin) they should be able to produce a slightly bulkier tablet close to the same price. Android could penetrate the market if the hardware makers could just get the price right.
post #75 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

There are no tablet experts. Nobody knows.

Moses.
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #76 of 140
deleted
post #77 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Android users represent a microscopic and insignificant percentage of web users. Is it surprising that frugal people who end up with cheap Android phones don't actually use their phones much to actually browse the web?

You're a totally delusional fanboy. iOS takes around 50% of all web traffic and the next big chunks go to opera mini and native android. The truth is there are plenty of android users browsing the web and they're doing it on high speed cell networks, unlike iOS users.
post #78 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Similar things were said about Android phones. Now they outsell iOS phones.

Time will tell. Nobody knows the future.

No one Android phone has overtaken the iPhone.

Same will hold true tablets. If you get 15-20 mfg making Android tablets eventually all of them combined will eventually outsell iPad. It will take much longer than with phones because Apple's aggressive pricing is making it difficult for the Android companies to make a profit.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply
post #79 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

You're a totally delusional fanboy. iOS takes around 50% of all web traffic and the next big chunks go to opera mini and native android. The truth is there are plenty of android users browsing the web and they're doing it on high speed cell networks, unlike iOS users.

I'm sure iOS will have the 4g stuff built in soon.
post #80 of 140
deleted
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPad
  • Doubts cast on success of Amazon tablet, Android Ice Cream Sandwich vs. iPad
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Doubts cast on success of Amazon tablet, Android Ice Cream Sandwich vs. iPad