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Oracle seeking an injunction against Android as an "incompatible clone of Java"

post #1 of 202
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Oracle's comments in its infringement lawsuit against Google's Android platform has revealed that the company is seeking not just royalties, but a legal order stopping the distribution of Android entirely.

Oracle and Google are deadlocked in settlement talks ordered by the judge overseeing the case, according to a report by FOSS Patents blogger Florian Mueller.

Mueller analysis of the talks suggests that Google hopes to postpone any settlement with Oracle until its acquisition of Motorola Mobility is finalized, with the intent of filing retaliatory countersuits against Oracle.

However, Mueller separately notes that while Oracle has calculated demands for past damages, including patent damages, copyright damages and a share of Google's profits as an infringer, it is not detailing future damages in the form of an ongoing royalty, similar to the fees Microsoft has negotiated with Android licensees such as HTC.

Instead, Oracle notes in a filing that it "intends to strenuously pursue injunctive relief to resolve the key issue in this case: whether Google can use Oracle's intellectual property to create an incompatible clone of Java and thereby undermine Oracle's and many others' investments in 'write once, run anywhere.' If future royalties are applied, it is well established that they should be based on a separate, post-verdict assessment."

Mueller explains that this means Oracle views Android as a fragmentation of Java, and that rather than seeking future royalties, it would prefer to see an injunction that would either force Google to create an entirely new platform for Android that does not infringe Java (a massive investment that would render all existing Android software obsolete), or to apparently to recognize Android as Java, involving steep Oracle licensing costs for the platform going forward.

Oracle may not be granted the injunction it is "strenuously pursuing." In that case, if Google "is found to infringe but Oracle is denied an injunction," then "Google can continue to infringe but has to pay the amount determined by the court, which might be a per-unit royalty or a percentage of revenues," Mueller states.

Timing of Google's Motorola Mobility deal also factors into Apple lawsuit

While Oracle is directly suing Google over the technical foundations of Android's Java-like runtime, Apple has so far limited its lawsuits to hardware vendors licensing Android, including Samsung and Motorola Mobility.

With Google now in the process of buying Motorola Mobility, Apple's infringement claims now involve Google itself. However, because that deal is not finalized, Apple has recommended that the case be put on hold until Google's acquisition is completed.

Currently, Motorola Mobility lacks the legal ability to negotiate its patent rights and obligations without Google's input as a buyer. However, because the deal is still pending Google is restricted from involving itself in the case because it doesn't yet own the company. Apple therefore claims that Motorola currently lacks standing to negotiate the rights to its own patents.

Apple's lawyers have pressed the legal council of Motorola Mobility for more information on its confidential merger agreement with Google, a sensitive subject that Motorola has tried to avoid while deciding how to maneuver in the weeks since Apple filed its motion to stay the case.

Apple's attorneys have complained that the company "is expending enormous resources litigating toward final judgments that may be invalid if Motorola lacks standing."

Meanwhile, Motorola Mobility has finally responded to Apple's motion to stay its infringement case by filing to request "a limited period of time before the entry of any such order [to stay] so that Motorola can attempt to cure the defects in standing."

However, Mueller notes that Motorola Mobility can't "cure its defects in standing" without a revised agreement with Google, as its existing agreement prevents Motorola from settling pending patent litigation. But such a new agreement would also be a problem, because as Mueller notes, Motorola's management "must operate the company independently, within the parameters of the merger agreement, until the transaction is closed."

Google's deal to buy Motorola Mobility is therefore threatening to hold up Motorola's ability to "defend" Android from infringement cases by both Oracle and Apple, the opposite of what Google intended its $12.5 billion acquisition to do. Instead, it is delaying settlement opportunities and threatening to make it even more expensive to resolve the issues.
post #2 of 202
I'm rooting for Oracle and Android should be shutdown and taken off the market, making it illegal for any manufacturer to make any device with Android on it. Don't be a thief, come up with your own shit.
post #3 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I'm rooting for Oracle and Android should be shutdown and taken off the market, making it illegal for any manufacturer to make any device with Android on it. Don't be a thief, come up with your own shit.

If that happens, maybe HP can get someone interested in buying WebOS.

And Microsoft and Apple will certainly have a big party.
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post #4 of 202
The reason why they're going for an injunction isn't to stop Google and Android. It's to get into a better position to demand higher licensing fees. If they just go after the licensing, and the product remains on the market, they have less bargaining power than if the product is not allowed to be marketed and sold.
post #5 of 202
I say Oracle should just nuke Android from orbit.

Only way to be sure...
post #6 of 202
YES!!! You go, Oracle!!! Time to finally fight back against the thieves!!!

Those bastards at Google need to be taught a huge lesson. This certainly isn't the first thing Google has stolen & raped & pillaged:

http://brianshall.com/content/google-are-pussies
post #7 of 202
The intrigue I have with these legal patent battles is equal to that of reading a Robert Ludlum book.
post #8 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I'm rooting for Oracle and Android should be shutdown and taken off the market, making it illegal for any manufacturer to make any device with Android on it. Don't be a thief, come up with your own shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If that happens, maybe HP can get someone interested in buying WebOS.

And Microsoft and Apple will certainly have a big party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I say Oracle should just nuke Android from orbit.

Only way to be sure...





So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?

Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.

It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.

Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).
post #9 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post

The intrigue I have with these legal patent battles is equal to that of reading a Robert Ludlum book.

There should be a reality show following all of the tech world legal battles.

Break out the popcorn!
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post #10 of 202
What do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

YES!!! You go, Oracle!!! Time to finally fight back against the thieves!!!

Those bastards at Google need to be taught a huge lesson. This certainly isn't the first thing Google has stolen & raped & pillaged:

http://brianshall.com/content/google-are-pussies
post #11 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?

Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.

It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.

Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).

I think the same thing as well. Android though was designed to infringe from the beginning. The google boys even admitted that back in the day.

Windows 8, WebOS, iOS... they all made their own unique stuff. I have zero problem with them.

Google really should be ashamed.
post #12 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The reason why they're going for an injunction isn't to stop Google and Android. It's to get into a better position to demand higher licensing fees. If they just go after the licensing, and the product remains on the market, they have less bargaining power than if the product is not allowed to be marketed and sold.

Either outcome is not good for Android and Google. If Google finally has to pay their fair share for ripping and using other people's intellectual property, then will Android still be free?

If I were a smartphone maker other than Apple, I'd be looking and searching for alternatives other than Android.
post #13 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The reason why they're going for an injunction isn't to stop Google and Android. It's to get into a better position to demand higher licensing fees. If they just go after the licensing, and the product remains on the market, they have less bargaining power than if the product is not allowed to be marketed and sold.

So Oracle would be ok with an incompatible version of Java polluting their write once run everywhere mantra as long as they pay the license?

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post #14 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?

If Google really did infringe on Oracle's Java, and Oracle is able to win in court, then sure, Google should be punished if you ask me. I see it as a simple case of right and wrong.
post #15 of 202
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post #16 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I think the same thing as well. Android though was designed to infringe from the beginning. The google boys even admitted that back in the day.

Windows 8, WebOS, iOS... they all made their own unique stuff. I have zero problem with them.

Google really should be ashamed.

See, I agree with this. I think that Google should be sued for all of its infringements and pay up dearly. But take it off the market? Come on!

I just die a little inside when it's assumed that Apple makes the best solutions for everyone. Killing Android will not be a good thing for consumers.
post #17 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

If Google really did infringe on Oracle's Java, and Oracle is able to win in court, then sure, Google should be punished if you ask me. I see it as a simple case of right and wrong.

If Google is in the wrong, they should pay whatever damages that are due to other companies. But to suggest that another OS simply be wiped off the market just because it benefits AAPL? Who are we kidding here
post #18 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

But take it off the market? Come on!

Sure, why not? That is up to the intellectual property owner.

What do some big companies do when they seize a ton of cheap knockoffs and counterfeit goods? They destroy them all.
post #19 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Sure, why not? That is up to the intellectual property owner.

What do some big companies do when they seize a ton of cheap knockoffs and counterfeit goods? They destroy them all.

Oracle wants $2 billion, not to take Android off the market.
post #20 of 202
Love Larry. Steve's buddy.
post #21 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Oracle wants $2 billion, not to take Android off the market.

I read that too, but I'm just repeating what I read in the first line of this article.

Oracle's comments in its infringement lawsuit against Google's Android platform has revealed that the company is seeking not just royalties, but a legal order stopping the distribution of Android entirely

Stopping Android completely might not be their endgame, but that's what they're saying that they want at the moment.
post #22 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The reason why they're going for an injunction isn't to stop Google and Android. It's to get into a better position to demand higher licensing fees. If they just go after the licensing, and the product remains on the market, they have less bargaining power than if the product is not allowed to be marketed and sold.

+++

Oracle does not want Android to be shut. They just want a piece of the pie (and from the court documents, it seems like they indeed do deserve some).
post #23 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?

Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.

It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.

Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).

Apple is a lot better than what Android is offering, but we do need a decent alternative. Unfortunately, neither WebOS nor WP7 (which arent just straight up iOS copies) are looking too good right now, so Android it must be.

I think the right thing here would be for Android manufacturers to pay Apple/Oracle/MS a fair licence on each Android sold, so we still get Android competition, but they don't have an unfair advantage borne of IP theft.
post #24 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

So Oracle would be ok with an incompatible version of Java polluting their write once run everywhere mantra as long as they pay the license?

Yup...Oracle is making peanuts of Java anyways. There is a reason Sun went down. Schwartz had no idea how to monetize Sun's awesome products, and pretty much gave away the keys to the goldmine that was Java.
post #25 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I read that too, but I'm just repeating what I read in the first line of this article.

Oracle's comments in its infringement lawsuit against Google's Android platform has revealed that the company is seeking not just royalties, but a legal order stopping the distribution of Android entirely

Stopping Android completely might not be their endgame, but that's what they're saying that they want at the moment.

If Oracle is granted the injunction, they basically can demand whatever Google+Samsung+HTC+Moto can afford to pay. That is the endgame here.
post #26 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Apple is a lot better than what Android is offering, but we do need a decent alternative. Unfortunately, neither WebOS nor WP7 (which arent just straight up iOS copies) are looking too good right now, so Android it must be.

I think the right thing here would be for Android manufacturers to pay Apple/Oracle/MS a fair licence on each Android sold, so we still get Android competition, but they don't have an unfair advantage borne of IP theft.

BINGO! Agreed on all fronts.
post #27 of 202
I think Google should pay *something* for their use of Java.
post #28 of 202
burn in hell android!!!

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post #29 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?

Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.

It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.

Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).

Haven't you been reading the other tech blogs?

Windows 8 will be sweeping in and Android and iOS are doomed, doomed they tells ya!
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post #30 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?

Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.

It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.

Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).

Agree 100% We need hungry companies like Google. They push the envelope. But they are also taking advantage of other companies by taking shortcuts by blatantly copying their successful and innovative products. They need to pay and be punished for unfair practices, but it will do no one any good by seeing them gone.
post #31 of 202
This is Larry Ellison we are talking about here. It would be totally Larry to demand a complete injunction to scare the opposing party into agreeing to huge future royalties. But Larry is buddies with Mr. Jobs. Death to Android might be a gift to Steve.

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post #32 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

If Google is in the wrong, they should pay whatever damages that are due to other companies. But to suggest that another OS simply be wiped off the market just because it benefits AAPL? Who are we kidding here

I disagree (and not because it would "benefit" Apple). Allowing Google to simply pay an amount of money if found guilty of willful infringement is basically: It's better to ask forgiveness than ask permission. IMO, that's just wrong. If the owner of the IP wants the infringing product banned, then that is its right.

As for the impact on consumers, the government doesn't allow designer knockoffs to be sold. The knockoffs tend to be sold at a cheaper price. Should we as consumers get up in arms when the Feds busts a storeowner in the mall for selling them? (NOTE: I am not saying Android is a knockoff. I am just comparing similar circumstances.). There will still be choices and those choices (WP7 & possibly WebOS) stand to gain a lot.
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post #33 of 202
If Android is taken off the market, webOS could make a licensed resurgence. But so would Windows Phone.
post #34 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I say Oracle should just nuke Android from orbit.

Only way to be sure...

That cracked me up. Thanks.
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post #35 of 202
Are you people crackers or something? Us iPhone users WANT Android to succeed and be better and better. Competition fules innovation. If iOS had no competition, it wouldn't move ahead so far so quickly. As a user, you WANT the competition to be successful just enough to fuel the manufacturer of your product to constantly strive to release a better product.

I believe Google has the money to just buy Oracle. Don't tempt them... Honestly, this software patent crap is so far out of hand it's ridiculous. It used to not be this way and we had lots of innovation. Software patents block innovation.
post #36 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Are you people crackers or something? Us iPhone users WANT Android to succeed and be better and better. Competition fules innovation. If iOS had no competition, it wouldn't move ahead so far so quickly. As a user, you WANT the competition to be successful just enough to fuel the manufacturer of your product to constantly strive to release a better product.

I believe Google has the money to just buy Oracle. Don't tempt them... Honestly, this software patent crap is so far out of hand it's ridiculous. It used to not be this way and we had lots of innovation. Software patents block innovation.

+1

Software patents are too murky to be all morally or ethically bothered by them.

I mean shit, you can patent slide to unlock and icon shape but you can't patent a video game which undoubtedly includes a lot more unique actions than slide to unlock.
post #37 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I say Oracle should just nuke Android from orbit.

Only way to be sure...

Agree. How many times would "nuke from orbit" have solved crisis situations? Many many times.

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post #38 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by rp2011 View Post

Agree 100% We need hungry companies like Google. They push the envelope. But they are also taking advantage of other companies by taking shortcuts by blatantly copying their successful and innovative products. They need to pay and be punished for unfair practices, but it will do no one any good by seeing them gone.

Google aren't a "hungry" company, they are like a dumb puppy, fat from Ad revenue profits who act like they don't understand why people get angry when it chews up their slippers.
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post #39 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Google aren't a "hungry" company, they are like a dumb puppy, fat from Ad revenue profits who act like they don't understand why people get angry when it chews up their slippers.

Something tells me you didn't hate Google until 2008.
post #40 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

[...] Software patents block innovation.

That's some seriously misguided freetard-speak there, buddy.

Patents protect innovators against blatant copying. Just as Samsung.

Here. Let me Bing that for you: http://binged.it/rt7h91

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