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Verizon comes to Samsung's defense in Apple patent lawsuit - Page 3

post #81 of 116
9/25/11 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I've never been pro-Mueller, but true that I never had an issue with him when he first got on my radar. After a few months reading his blogs, comparing him with other sources, paying closer attention to all his posts and doing some add'l research, I have a completely different view of him. Do some research yourself if you still believe he's not working on Microsoft's behalf, and now has the appearance of adding Apple as a client.

Start with an easy Google search: Florian Mueller Microsoft client

Then just follow-up from there.

Oh give me a break. Not more than 5 weeks ago you were using one of Mueller's rants as evidence to prove one of your anti-Apple stances. I did my best to tell you Mueller was almost on the level of DED but you would have none of it... then Mueller did an obvious anti-Google piece about 3 weeks later and you turned on Mueller.
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post #82 of 116
9/25/11 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post

Indeed!

I start to think that sooner or later, Asian companies will buy major USA companies.
All of them, Google, Microsoft and even Apple.

With back door government backing chinese companies will buy USA ones, they have the money.
What USA companies makes money out of android or Windows?
Looks like only Asian companies makes money both out of Windows and Android.

USA will be like UK, irrelevant technology wise.

Why would they do that? We already buy all electronic devices from them now. No devices bearing the Apple or Motorola logo are actually made by them, they're just resellers.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #83 of 116
9/25/11 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post

That's only the tip of the iceberg. Apple is the only phone manufacturer that controls its own products - branding, timing, contents, pricing and distribution. The logo is only the tip of what carriers see as a larger problem.

Again Apple does NOT manufacture phones, it only sells phones manufactured by foxconn. Get it right. In reality Apple is a software company that has strict control over the devices its software gets used on.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #84 of 116
9/25/11 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTomcat View Post

GOD.......
This forum is amazing... and worse than 9/11 conspiracy theory...

Apple buys Samsung, Apple will make better TV, Verizon won´t get the new iPhone...

You all guys are incredibly blind...

No they're just woozy from the kool aid
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #85 of 116
9/25/11 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Oh give me a break. Not more than 6 weeks ago you were using one of Mueller's rants as evidence to prove one of your anti-Apple stance's. I did my best to tell you Mueller was almost on the level of DED but you would have none of it... then Mueller did an obvious anti-Google piece about 3 weeks later and you turned on Mueller.

I do recall using FOSSPatents as a source for some point I was making. I've probably done so more than once. I've also used 9to5Mac, Apple's own site and DED himself. It doesn't mean that I'm pro-any-of-them. They all have their value and good points. FOSS is the only one of the group that would pretend to be objective/unbiased. Perfectly proper to point out that Florian Mueller shouldn't be taken at face value.

With that said, I gave FOSSPatents some props just a couple days ago in an exchange with Mel. Florian often offers information lacking from other sources, and I read him several times a week. But I don't depend on him for a fair unbiased opinion, nor complete unblemished reporting of the facts.

I'm also not against Apple. What seems to make you and some others uncomfortable is pointing out factual errors, misstatements, logical fallacies, and misreporting. Others take issue with the fact I hold my ground calmly and logically, yet can admit an error when presented with evidence. If you go thru all 1600+ posts I've made you'll be hard pressed to find a handful that are Apple specific complaints, unless you consider anything less than a rah-rah-rah to be an attack. In fact you'll find more kudos than complaints. I'm far from an Apple hater.There's Apple fanatics here who have complained about Apple and/or their policies much more often and vocally than I have. What I will point out is common misconceptions, flawed talking points, rushes to judgement, or ignorance of the facts. Surely the quest for knowledge isn't anti-Apple.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #86 of 116
9/25/11 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I do recall using FOSSPatents as a source for some point I was making. I've probably done so more than once. I've also used 9to5Mac, Apple's own site and DED himself. It doesn't mean that I'm pro-any-of-them. They all have their value and good points. FOSS is the only one of the group that would pretend to be objective/unbiased. Perfectly proper to point out that Florian Mueller shouldn't be taken at face value.

With that said, I gave FOSSPatents some props just a couple days ago in an exchange with Mel. Florian often offers information lacking from other sources, and I read him several times a week. But I don't depend on him for a fair unbiased opinion, nor complete unblemished reporting of the facts.

I'm also not against Apple. What seems to make you and some others uncomfortable is pointing out factual errors, misstatements, logical fallacies, and misreporting. Others take issue with the fact I hold my ground calmly and logically, yet can admit an error when presented with evidence. If you go thru all 1600+ posts I've made you'll be hard pressed to find a handful that are Apple specific complaints, unless you consider anything less than a rah-rah-rah to be an attack. In fact you'll find more kudos than complaints. I'm far from an Apple hater.There's Apple fanatics here who have complained about Apple and/or their policies much more often and vocally than I have. What I will point out is common misconceptions, flawed talking points, rushes to judgement, or ignorance of the facts. Surely the quest for knowledge isn't anti-Apple.



You are a funny funny guy. You are a legend in your own mind.

Sorry Gatorguy... but you're joining a long list of people on my ignore list... your delusions are just too great and too hard to ignore.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #87 of 116
9/25/11 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

too hard to ignore.

Then… won't it do no good to put him on your ignore list?

You really shouldn't ignore trolls. No one should. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away. Their posts stick around and then it looks (to an outsider, because plenty of guests read this forum) like we accept their nonsensical ramblings as being okay.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #88 of 116
9/25/11 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post



You are a funny funny guy. You are a legend in your own mind.

Sorry Gatorguy... but you're joining a long list of people on my ignore list... your delusions are just too great and too hard to ignore.

When someone has only AdHoms left as a defense, it usually means the other guy's winning. I had more respect for you than that and expected a much more logical and studied response.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #89 of 116
9/25/11 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Again Apple does NOT manufacture phones, it only sells phones manufactured by foxconn. Get it right. In reality Apple is a software company that has strict control over the devices its software gets used on.

That's such a stupid reason to jump on the poor guy. If you really want to quibble, you're farther off the mark than him. Apple is NOT just a software company.
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post #90 of 116
9/25/11 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Again Apple does NOT manufacture phones, it only sells phones manufactured by foxconn. Get it right. In reality Apple is a software company that has strict control over the devices its software gets used on.

Do you think that Foxconn designs and engineers the phones too, or are you on board that Apple designs and engineers them, while Foxconn then assembles the production units from components bought from other suppliers? If so, does that still make Apple just a software company in your view?
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post #91 of 116
9/25/11 at 9:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Damn you guys get flustered quickly. Did any of you bother to understand what amicus curiae means (intention and implication-wise, not definition) before you spewed all the Verizon hate? Their intention for filing an amicus curiae brief is likely entirely self-serving. If it happens to aid Samsung, so be it, but their intention is not to directly support Samsung's interests.

Even if you didn't take a moment to understand what was going on legally, why would you think Verizon would partner up with Samsung against Apple? Verizon is in the business of making money; I doubt any of you will argue against that, despite your contrariness. If Verizon wants to make the most money possible, then they won't favor one hardware manufacturer at the expense of another. It's in their best interest to offer devices representing the widest possible swath of the market.

Everything that isn't expressly pro-Apple isn't anti-Apple. I promise.

Agreed! They want and need product out there to improve their network...something ATT should try instead of blowing zillions on those stinking tmobile merger ads.
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post #92 of 116
9/25/11 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

Why would oracle want to shut down android. (I think thats what you mean Android is an OS and Droid is a line of phones released on Verizon's network.) Their is no gain in oracle getting android stopped. If anything they would want it to be as successful as possible. They want royalties not to shut it down. Only apple and Microsoft stand to really lose by android OS being more powerful.

Licensing a particular technology to get royalties isn't always the best strategy. Sometimes, licensing the technology destroys a competitive advantage. I think Oracle will try to bar distribution of Android.
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post #93 of 116
9/26/11 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I do recall using FOSSPatents as a source for some point I was making. ...

I'm also not against Apple. What seems to make you and some others uncomfortable is pointing out factual errors, misstatements, logical fallacies, and misreporting. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

When someone has only AdHoms left as a defense, it usually means the other guy's winning. I had more respect for you than that and expected a much more logical and studied response.

But, you are a funny guy. I guess you've lied so much here that you forget what BS you were spouting a few weeks ago fairly easily. No one here is intimidated by your intellectual prowess, as you flatter yourself, because, quite simply, you don't have any. Nor any integrity or honesty.

A nice attempt to talk your way out of your own inconsistencies by telling us it's our fault if you seem to be lying, and that you've "won the argument" when we can't help but laugh at you, but in the end, you're simply left with egg on your face and looking like a fool.

You'd get more respect here if you were simply honest about your agenda and stopped trying to pretend your motives are something other than what they are.
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post #94 of 116
9/26/11 at 5:06am
OT: Follow Andreasudo on twitter for an inside pov (direct facts no opinions that I could see) of the Apple v Samsung patent proceedings
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post #95 of 116
9/26/11 at 5:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

But, you are a funny guy. I guess you've lied so much here that you forget what BS you were spouting a few weeks ago fairly easily. No one here is intimidated by your intellectual prowess, as you flatter yourself, because, quite simply, you don't have any. Nor any integrity or honesty.

A nice attempt to talk your way out of your own inconsistencies by telling us it's our fault if you seem to be lying, and that you've "won the argument" when we can't help but laugh at you, but in the end, you're simply left with egg on your face and looking like a fool.

You'd get more respect here if you were simply honest about your agenda and stopped trying to pretend your motives are something other than what they are.

And yet only AdHom's from you too. Link to my "lies" and we can discuss them. If you don't have any evidence, then that speaks for your own honesty and integrity doesn't it?\

Take your time, I'll wait patiently, tho it shouldn't take too long I suppose. You seem to already know what they are.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #96 of 116
9/26/11 at 5:43am
Mueller is taking credit on Twitter for the Apple stock dropping ... 1.5% ... after he posted a blog about the Verizon brief. Seriously?
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post #97 of 116
9/26/11 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

OT: Follow Andreasudo on twitter for an inside pov (direct facts no opinions that I could see) of the Apple v Samsung patent proceedings

He's tweeting more than facts - looks like he's sitting court side and transcribing the proceedings!

Some nuggets of note:

- Samsung claims Apple has refused to license their 3G patents.
- Apple says Samsung did not approach them until 2010, and Samsung's royalty demands are too high. 2.4% of chip price on every chip for every patent - yeah, that's excessive.
- If I understand correctly, the *infringement* concerns chips made by Qualcomm. Apple claims iPhones and iPads sold in Europe do NOT use Qualcomm chips. So ... WTF? I'm missing something here. Anyone can fill in the gap?
- Apple claims negotiations are still ongoing and therefore an injunction is premature.

All in all, it sounds like Apple is going to concede on this specific battlefront in some way.
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post #98 of 116
9/26/11 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

But, you are a funny guy. I guess you've lied so much here that you forget what BS you were spouting a few weeks ago fairly easily. No one here is intimidated by your intellectual prowess, as you flatter yourself, because, quite simply, you don't have any. Nor any integrity or honesty.

A nice attempt to talk your way out of your own inconsistencies by telling us it's our fault if you seem to be lying, and that you've "won the argument" when we can't help but laugh at you, but in the end, you're simply left with egg on your face and looking like a fool.

You'd get more respect here if you were simply honest about your agenda and stopped trying to pretend your motives are something other than what they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

And yet only AdHom's from you too. Link to my "lies" and we can discuss them. If you don't have any evidence, then that speaks for your own honesty and integrity doesn't it?\

Take your time, I'll wait patiently, tho it shouldn't take too long I suppose. You seem to already know what they are.

Boyz, boyz, boyz ... stop adhoming each other. Ok?
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post #99 of 116
9/26/11 at 6:23am
You're right of course. They never accomplish anything, or add to a discussion.

Hopefully everyone has it out of their systems for awhile.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #100 of 116
9/26/11 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

But, you are a funny guy. I guess you've lied so much here that you forget what BS you were spouting a few weeks ago fairly easily. No one here is intimidated by your intellectual prowess, as you flatter yourself, because, quite simply, you don't have any. Nor any integrity or honesty.

A nice attempt to talk your way out of your own inconsistencies by telling us it's our fault if you seem to be lying, and that you've "won the argument" when we can't help but laugh at you, but in the end, you're simply left with egg on your face and looking like a fool.

You'd get more respect here if you were simply honest about your agenda and stopped trying to pretend your motives are something other than what they are.


When somebody writes a multi-paragraph attack on another poster, they need to take a two week vacation from the forum.

Just IMO.
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post #101 of 116
9/26/11 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

When somebody writes a multi-paragraph attack on another poster, they need to take a two week vacation from the forum.

Just IMO.

What formula did you use to arrive at 2 weeks, given that the *attack* contains 3 paragraphs?

Is it

W = 2P/3

with W = # of weeks and P = # of paragraphs?

Or is it a nonlinear function?
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post #102 of 116
9/26/11 at 9:41am
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #103 of 116
9/26/11 at 9:46am
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #104 of 116
9/26/11 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Oracle doesn't want to shut down Android. On the contrary, they want to collect royalties for Android, and to be worth their while they want Android to succeed.

It's rational guess. But let's not state these guesses as if we want what Oracle really wants. We are not Larry Ellison. How do we know what he really wants?
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post #105 of 116
9/26/11 at 10:01am
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #106 of 116
9/26/11 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

The level of detail in Mueller's blog is what keeps me going back there, but his bias is so increasingly self-evident that it's getting hard to wade through to the straight facts.

What other blogs would you recommend for coverage on these topics?

That's an issue if your only interest is who's doing what to Google or one of it's Android partners as I'm sure you've found. That seems to be his sole focus lately, and you're right about his inclusion of facts. He posts detail that others don't often mention, and that's definitely worth the visit. But he's also sometimes selective on what facts he reports, thus the need to search out multiple sources if you want the entire story, at least IMHO. If instead you have a general interest in researching patent law or keeping up with the latest patent news, I've found PatentlyO is a pretty good source.

I mentioned somewhere the other day that some of my more commonly-visited sites are the above-mentioned PatentlyO, EWeek, 9to5Mac, Groklaw, and SEOByTheSea. My normal pattern is just doing some Google phrase searches as new topics come up, as well as visiting those sites I just listed. Probably not so different than some of the other posters here.

I'm perhaps less "intelligent" than some here, but I can research with the best of them, and a whole lot more careful with my claims than most.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #107 of 116
9/26/11 at 10:02am
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #108 of 116
9/26/11 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

Why would oracle want to shut down android. (I think thats what you mean Android is an OS and Droid is a line of phones released on Verizon's network.) Their is no gain in oracle getting android stopped. If anything they would want it to be as successful as possible. They want royalties not to shut it down. Only apple and Microsoft stand to really lose by android OS being more powerful.


Oracle has expressed that their first goal is to kill dahlvik. Android has to implement Oracles jvm in Android for it to continue and license it and pay triple damages and ongoing licenses. Anyways dahlvik java is just a bastardised java according to Oracle which is why its seeking full injunction. That means dahlvik java isnt really 1to1 compatible with Oracle jvm. If Oracle dont succeed on the permanent injuction then damages (money, billions of it) is just a consolation price.

Q:What is Android without java,? A: An operating system without applications!!!

It dont look pretty for Goog.(nor Samsung, etc.) Even if they paid up and implemented Oracle jvm it would be the end of "free bier" for the chiepoes and bums and every app would have to be tested on that jvm and changes made for it to work.
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post #109 of 116
9/26/11 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

If Oracle were privately held I'd agree with you 100%. Ellison is, shall we say, "unpredictable".

But as a publicly held company, it seems unlikely that Ellison will be able to get Oracle to take a position not in the shareholders' interests.

There, I feel confident in disagreeing with you. How to negotiate (or not) with Google is a decision entirely in Ellison's hands. It is not something shareholders vote on at the AGM (no more than Apple shareholders would vote on whether to sue Samsung, or design of the next iPhone). If Ellison chooses the *maverick* route (which he has done many times, as I believe you'd agree), the shareholders have the option to bring up a motion at the AGM to force him out. But will they? Such a scenario is unlikely at any company. At Oracle, where Ellison is a demi-God, it's simply not going to happen.
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post #110 of 116
9/26/11 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

There, I feel confident in disagreeing with you. How to negotiate (or not) with Google is a decision entirely in Ellison's hands. It is not something shareholders vote on at the AGM (no more than Apple shareholders would vote on whether to sue Samsung, or design of the next iPhone). If Ellison chooses the *maverick* route (which he has done many times, as I believe you'd agree), the shareholders have the option to bring up a motion at the AGM to force him out. But will they? Such a scenario is unlikely at any company. At Oracle, where Ellison is a demi-God, it's simply not going to happen.

Agreed. He's his own man, and unpredictability comes with him. He reminds me of a more refined Mark Cuban.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #111 of 116
9/26/11 at 1:48pm
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #112 of 116
9/26/11 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

given that their stock is up about 50% in less than 2 years, they seem to be doing better than that. Looks like they are thriving, rather than fighting for survival.

Given that the market is up about 90% in that same span, it doesn't look like they rode the groundswell too effectively. Losing pace by a factor of nearly two wouldn't be something to be proud of.
Hiro's Hall of Shame ignore list: Tulkas -- because we know he wasn't born dumb.
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Hiro's Hall of Shame ignore list: Tulkas -- because we know he wasn't born dumb.
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post #113 of 116
9/26/11 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Do you think that Foxconn designs and engineers the phones too, or are you on board that Apple designs and engineers them, while Foxconn then assembles the production units from components bought from other suppliers? If so, does that still make Apple just a software company in your view?

You're absolutely correct, but Apple this is NOT a phone manufacturer.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #114 of 116
9/26/11 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

You're absolutely correct, but Apple this is NOT a phone manufacturer.

I was disputing your claim that they are just a software company. Phone manufacturer was not part of the argument. Anyway - you are, at best, splitting hairs, and more likely, having read your other posts, trying, again, to imply that Apple had nothing to do with the hardware. Not helpful to the discussion except to stir the pot.
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post #115 of 116
9/27/11 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

What formula did you use to arrive at 2 weeks, given that the *attack* contains 3 paragraphs?

Is it

W = 2P/3

with W = # of weeks and P = # of paragraphs?

Or is it a nonlinear function?

I think it should be explained using exponential functions to be honest.
*busts out the differential equations*
TalkAndroid anyone?
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TalkAndroid anyone?
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post #116 of 116
9/27/11 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicNReason View Post

I think it should be explained using exponential functions to be honest.
*busts out the differential equations*

I favor step functions. ƒ(not asshat) = No vacation, ƒ(asshat) = Vacation. Simple. Worked for Ackerman and others.
Hiro's Hall of Shame ignore list: Tulkas -- because we know he wasn't born dumb.
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