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Apple may hold iPhone 5 event in smaller venue on Cupertino campus - Page 2

post #41 of 115
Plus: way easier to park in Cupertino than in downtown SF.

Minus: way harder to get a cab.

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post #42 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Thought 4G was 1Gbps…

And something tells me Apple won't use the phrase "4G" at all. They'll just say what it has: HSPA+ or LTE. Let the telecoms wave their genitalia around about "4G".

I believe LTE Advanced is 1Gb/s for peak fixed speeds and 100Mb/s for peak mobile use. As well as a crap load of other features that aren't yet met by any carrier.


PS: As people who follow the tech industry we have to be aware of marketing buzzwords that sound great but do little to help (and con sometimes hurt) the end user experience. Take all those Android-based devices that appeared on that market claiming to have to 802.11n WiFi. Sounds great over the 802.11g that Apple had in their devices, but when AnandTech did their tests they found that Apple's old and crusty iDevices had a higher throughput in 802.11g than these awesome¡ Android-based devices had using 802.11n. Not all HW are the same and quality drivers can be a huge undertaking to get right. Spec sheets can't detail these very real and very significant differences.
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post #43 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I believe LTE Advanced is 1Gb/s for peak fixed speeds and 100Mb/s for peak mobile use. As well as a crap load of other features that aren't yet met by any carrier.

I mean I could have sworn the definition for "4G" was 1Gb/s and that LTE-A maxed at 600 Mb/s. Oh, well.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #44 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I mean I could have sworn the definition for "4G" was 1Gb/s and that LTE-A maxed at 600 Mb/s. Oh, well.

The "official" definition of LTE-A by the ITU-T keeps changing and will likely continue to change. It's complex and can't ever be met for years to come due to the rate at which HW improvements progress. That's a physical fact.

In the mean time we'll just have to deal with any and everyone being able to call something '4G' because the marketing works for them. It's not like they are lying, they don't have to follow the ITU-T.

Solipsism4G


edit: You can't focus on the '4G' nickname. It's pointless as they are only meaningful within the standards bodies that are using them. You have to look at what is actually defined by the term… and yet they still keep changing the requirements as the proposals progress. I think you are thinking of 3GPP Long Term Evolution.
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post #45 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Perhaps this could also indicate that the products being unveiled will be smaller and less impressive than we had hoped. An iPhone 4 with a faster GPU isn't really going to be worth renting an enormous conference room for.

Or it could indicate that Apple doesn't feel they need to drag a room of press across the country anymore for releases. Outside of WWDC, which is a huge event where a keynote is actually the smallest part, maybe they will do all events on campus. Invite local press to be on site and the rest get press releases, on site videos etc. The blogs source each other all the time anyway. Apple tested live streaming a keynote a couple of years ago, perhaps they got the bugs out and will do that as well.

As for your attempted diss on the hardware. Frankly I don't see the iPhone 5 as being a huge change. LTE isn't really ready yet and that's the big ticket item. I think that an LTE iPhone with support for both CDMA and GSM fallback and a software based 'sim' is in the works for the iPhone 6. This time around I think the updates are software based via iOS 5 and it's 200+ new features etc. And remember, most folks are on a two year contract and don't upgrade midway. So the jump from a 3GS to a '4s' is pretty big for them.

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post #46 of 115
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Please edit your post to remove the spam quote. It makes the moderators job much easier.

EDIT: Sorry JeffDM. Didn't see you there.

Or how about this. Flag spam etc and don't reply to it at all. Then you don't have to remember not to quote it, edit it etc

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post #47 of 115
Hmmm...small venue = small announcement. We will probably only see an iPhone 4S this year.
post #48 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Oh no! You know what this means!

Nothing at all.

Also note that Apple has been making moves to make itself less predictable (than it already was!) and not having to book giant public spaces for product launches does a great deal to allow Apple to be more mysterious.

I suspect you are correct. Apple loathes ANY details getting out before Apple tells them and by now they know folks are watching the calendars. Keeping things in house keeps it on the QT. Plus keeping it in house, they know the tech they are working with, can update, lock down etc a lot easier and avoid anymore wifi issues during demos etc

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post #49 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Or it could indicate that Apple doesn't feel they need to drag a room of press across the country anymore for releases. Outside of WWDC, which is a huge event where a keynote is actually the smallest part, maybe they will do all events on campus. Invite local press to be on site and the rest get press releases, on site videos etc. The blogs source each other all the time anyway. Apple tested live streaming a keynote a couple of years ago, perhaps they got the bugs out and will do that as well.

Unfortunately for us this means they don't have to give us much of a warning. They'll stream the event right from the campus with plenty of bandwidth and internal planning and let the tech blogs do their thing remotely instead of sitting in Moscone fervently detailing every word and taking snapshots they can post with amazing speed.

Except of the lack of an advanced warning I'm happy by this change.
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post #50 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Hmmm...small venue = small announcement. We will probably only see an iPhone 4S this year.



How is iOS 5 in any way a "small" announcement? There's really only one legitimate reason to jailbreak iDevices anymore because of it.

And a couple illegitimate ones.

Don't get me started on iCloud.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #51 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

As for your attempted diss on the hardware. Frankly I don't see the iPhone 5 as being a huge change. LTE isn't really ready yet and that's the big ticket item. I think that an LTE iPhone with support for both CDMA and GSM fallback and a software based 'sim' is in the works for the iPhone 6. This time around I think the updates are software based via iOS 5 and it's 200+ new features etc. And remember, most folks are on a two year contract and don't upgrade midway. So the jump from a 3GS to a '4s' is pretty big for them.

So, let me add a few other notable differences. The new iPhone 4s (or 5) will most likely support HSPA+ (AT&T) and CDMA (Verizon, Sprint). The speed differences are now even more apparent (14-21 mbs for HSPA+ and 3 mbs for CDMA). Also, CDMA still does not support true data/voice multitasking (you would need 2 iPhones to do that!)

Next year, when/if Apple decides to support LTE, that will leave Sprint out of the running....they do not support it. They are stuck with their slow and featureless CDMA. Verizon and AT&T will be able to fully support LTE. However, both of these networks will not be fully built out until around 2013-2014. Verizon will have to fallback to CDMA (will a user drop a call?) while AT&T can seamlessly fallback on HSPA+.

Happy Shopping.
post #52 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Verizon will have to fallback to CDMA (will a user drop a call?)

No, it will be using CDMA, anyway. The LTE voice spec isn't finalized yet. You can't use LTE for voice, only data. That goes for both carriers.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #53 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Plus: way easier to park in Cupertino than in downtown SF.

Minus: way harder to get a cab.

How about a shuttle bus with a help-yourself beer keg as you get on.

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post #54 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Unfortunately for us this means they don't have to give us much of a warning.

Which may be what they want.

All this talk of blackouts etc may be some what bogus in terms of the implications. It could be that Apple in fact told managers to limit requests for Oct 4- 12th, with nothing allowed on the weekends because they are high traffic times in general.

Come this Tuesday there could be an invite to come to the Apple website on Thursday for some amazing, magical news. Perhaps with a campus event that is live streamed. Or maybe it's just a bunch of new info pages and video. Of the new iPods releasing the next day, of ios5 releasing in waves starting the next, icloud etc. And also the new iPhone which releases on Oct 4th with online orders starting at 12:01am that day and no reservations like they did the iPad 2 (I rather hope not on the reservations, I heard that was a PR nightmare at the stores)

Sure it's not what they did when Jobs was the Captain of the ship, but he's not captain anymore and shaking things up a bit isn't out of line. Especially since they know folks will take the news however Apple dishes it out and will show up and buy even if they don't like the rules or have to try a dozen times to score

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post #55 of 115
Small venue = small announcement?

Not necessarily. Apple has used their own smaller venue for numerous announcements in the past and I read that Oracle is having some big conference in town, which means that the larger venue is already taken.

It doesn't matter if Apple holds their announcement in a 2x2 closet, it will be huge news which will be reported all around the world.

Apple only needs to invite the press to announce the new iPhone. They don't need a huge venue with a ton of people sitting in the audience, who don't really need to be there.
post #56 of 115
They only need media folks so they don't need a larger venue.

It isn't about slightly bumped iPhone 4 jeez.

For those who are clueless why WWDC events has a larger venue, that's because there are developers attendees which is 4,200 people and around 1,000 Apple engineers. Plus, those media guys.
post #57 of 115
post #58 of 115
I'm so thankful that I'm not the only one seeing thru the sorry-marketing for what-3G-shouldve-been as being portrayed as 4G.
...
But here's just some thoughts:
- IPhone 4+ (as someelse here hinted). Except I don't know how it would help VZ or Sprint
- IPhone LTE (get them in our hands early so we have them when it's finally rolled out/ assuming they found a way to fix their LTE chip issues)
- Cook was always regarded as an executive, not a marketer like Jobs. Maybe their trying to ween off the big shows into something newer for the new regime?
- It may be my wishful thinking but I like the idea someone here had about the campus having LTE for the promo. Honestly, I can't see a modest upgrade for Cook's first order of public business. But besides 4G and NFC, what else could make it a 5 instead of a 4S?
post #59 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjbDtc826 View Post

- IPhone LTE (get them in our hands early so we have them when it's finally rolled out

That's crazy. I refuse to buy a phone that will waste its battery looking for a network that doesn't exist.

Quote:
But besides 4G and NFC, what else could make it a 5 instead of a 4S?

Since neither of those are in any way "requirements" for making the iPhone a what, 5(?), I would say that absolutely anything ever in the history of EVER would make it an iPhone 5.

Sorry for the over-the-top response, but what you've said is so completely nonsensical, it was required.

So let's go down the list in order of importance as to what could easily make the next iPhone the iPhone 5.

One: IT'S THE FIFTH MODEL OF IPHONE. HOW EXTRAORDINARY A NAMING CONVENTION.
Two: A5 chip. Fifth iPhone. A5 chip. Just like the iPhone 4 was the fourth iPhone with an A4 chip.

And that's really it. Two isn't even needed. Even if it had the same processor, it's the fifth model of iPhone, so it could easily be the iPhone 5 from that alone.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #60 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There's really only one legitimate reason to jailbreak iDevices anymore because of it.

Honest question: what's the one legitimate reason? (There are a couple of things I'd like to do that I can't without jail breaking, and I don't think iOS 5 fixes either one. But my one experience of jail breaking was so horrible that those things aren't THAT important to me.)
post #61 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendrazi View Post

Honest question: what's the one legitimate reason? (There are a couple of things I'd like to do that I can't without jail breaking, and I don't think iOS 5 fixes either one. But my one experience of jail breaking was so horrible that those things aren't THAT important to me.)

I consider some interface modification to be legitimate. Not, you know, overloading your device with disgusting, hideous icons or taking away all color, opacity, and making it impossible to differentiate anything, but if you want more customizability than Apple gives you, you have to jailbreak.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #62 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Thought 4G was 1Gbps

And something tells me Apple won't use the phrase "4G" at all. They'll just say what it has: HSPA+ or LTE. Let the telecoms wave their genitalia around about "4G".

I don't expect Apple to be promoting the longer acronyms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Also, CDMA still does not support true data/voice multitasking (you would need 2 iPhones to do that!)

I wonder how many people would really care about that bit. Using voice and data simultaneously would require using a headset, which I've almost never seen anyone use, or speakerphone, which is really telling the other end that you hate them.
post #63 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

This is an easy question to answer. Oracle Openworld is from October 1-6 and is the largest trade show in San Francisco. Every venue (and hotel room) is booked solid and has been for months.

This strikes me as the most likely explanation. I doubt that it's because the announcement is of "lesser" caliber. Surveys show a real hunger for this new model, and besides most new models of existing products are mainly incremental improvements anyway. Let's face it, at this point they're not going to unveil the 'first smartphone'. Just new features and improvements, but that's enough for the Big Venue. They just couldn't get one.

So for anyone who thought maybe Apple would be embarrassed because they could not fill a big hall, just watch: The media will fight for seats.
post #64 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

At this point, it seems we have our date.

October 23: exactly ten years after the first iPod was released, Apple will discontinue the iPod classic.

I'm not so sure they will pick that exact date as it's rather late, but I agree that they might announce something like the discontinuation of the iPod classic.

I think it likely they might be introducing a whole new product or at least rebranding some of their stuff. Why else would they spend the entire ten year lifespan of the iPod not caring at all about owning sites and brand names related to the iPod product, but then turn around this very year and buy them all up?

My best guess is that the classic dies, the nano and the mini are rebranded as something else (iPlayers?), and the iPod takes centre stage as a sort of mini "iPad-come-iPhone" thingie.

That clarifies their main lineup into three simple products: iPod, iPhone, and iPad.

They release the iPhone and the iPod in the fall, and the iPad is the summer device.
post #65 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I wonder how many people would really care about that bit. Using voice and data simultaneously would require using a headset, which I've almost never seen anyone use, or speakerphone, which is really telling the other end that you hate them.

I'd venture most ATT iPhone users would not be willing to give up that feature. I certainly wouldn't.
post #66 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I'd venture most ATT iPhone users would not be willing to give up that feature. I certainly wouldn't.

That doesn't address the crux of the issue, how many people actually use it, and how often? No one wants to give up a feature, but a feature not used didn't actually need to be there. Apart from myself, on rare occasion, I've never seen anyone use it. It just strikes me as more of a talking point than a routinely used feature.
post #67 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Hmmm...small venue = small announcement. We will probably only see an iPhone 4S this year.

Will it have been worth the wait? Why the delay from the usual springtime refresh? The delay was what got the rumormill going that there would be a significant new edition.
post #68 of 115
Has an Apple event ever been held at the larger venue, that wasn't a part of WWDC or a Macworld?
post #69 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post



How is iOS 5 in any way a "small" announcement?

The term is being used in its relative sense.

He's saying that compared to both a new version of the phone and an OS update, having just the OS and a refresh of the same phone is, in relative terms, small.

No doubt that so far as software updates go, iOS will be "big". But overall, I think he was referring to reality compared with the prior accepted wisdom.
post #70 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't expect Apple to be promoting the longer acronyms.



I wonder how many people would really care about that bit. Using voice and data simultaneously would require using a headset, which I've almost never seen anyone use, or speakerphone, which is really telling the other end that you hate them.

Ah no. Sorry, but you have not thought this through at all.
post #71 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That doesn't address the crux of the issue, how many people actually use it, and how often? No one wants to give up a feature, but a feature not used didn't actually need to be there. Apart from myself, on rare occasion, I've never seen anyone use it. It just strikes me as more of a talking point than a routinely used feature.

So you're saying that you have never said to anyone on the iPhone, "Let me look that up right now"? You always hang up on them, look up the movie start time and then call them back?
post #72 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

All this talk of blackouts etc may be some what bogus in terms of the implications. It could be that Apple in fact told managers to limit requests for Oct 4- 12th, with nothing allowed on the weekends because they are high traffic times in general.

Yeah, maybe it's just generally a high-traffic time, being Thanksgiving and all. Because Canada is Apple's most important market... right?
post #73 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Apart from myself, on rare occasion, I've never seen anyone use it. It just strikes me as more of a talking point than a routinely used feature.

That is because it is so difficut to do with such a small screen and keyboard. People don't want to inconveience the caller on the other end while they struggle. Just compare that with how often you multitask with a phone and a computer. It is completely effortless. Having the abilty to do that on your mobile is pretty much an unrealized dream.

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post #74 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That doesn't address the crux of the issue, how many people actually use it, and how often? No one wants to give up a feature, but a feature not used didn't actually need to be there. Apart from myself, on rare occasion, I've never seen anyone use it. It just strikes me as more of a talking point than a routinely used feature.

I use it constantly. I don't care for making phone calls but when I am I usually checking data that require internet access.

Case in point, I was on the phone with a cruise line for about 30 minutes while my iPhone was acting as a Personal Hotspot for my MBP. It made for a very enjoyable experience for looking up data with my computer, while being on hold or chatting with a CSR with my iPhone's headphone/mic.
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post #75 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Ah no. Sorry, but you have not thought this through at all.

You have opportunity to enlighten me. To just tell me I've not thought through it does nothing to argue your case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

So you're saying that you have never said to anyone on the iPhone, "Let me look that up right now"? You always hang up on them, look up the movie start time and then call them back?

But I've never seen anyone do that. Besides, it's awkward unless you have a headset - which used to be common but I don't see so much anymore.
post #76 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I use it constantly. I don't care for making phone calls but when I am I usually checking data that require internet access.

Case in point, I was on the phone with a cruise line for about 30 minutes while my iPhone was acting as a Personal Hotspot for my MBP. It made for a very enjoyable experience for looking up data with my computer, while being on hold or chatting with a CSR with my iPhone's headphone/mic.

I too use it on occasion. It's nice to have. But does that mean that most people use it? The truth is, it doesn't prove that. Anecdotes such as "I use it" does not show that "most people use it", a single data point proves nothing. I've not seen evidence of the widespread or even much use of that feature.
post #77 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That doesn't address the crux of the issue, how many people actually use it, and how often? No one wants to give up a feature, but a feature not used didn't actually need to be there. Apart from myself, on rare occasion, I've never seen anyone use it. It just strikes me as more of a talking point than a routinely used feature.

I use it all day every day. I do wonder why more people that I see driving around with their phones held up to their heads don't use their headset, though. If I didn't have the capability, I would get the warning about data transfer probably 25 times a day. I think more people use it than you'd think. ATT may be an "evil corporation" (TM) but I doubt they'd build a marketing campaign out of something that none of their users ever did.
post #78 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I use it all day every day. I do wonder why more people that I see driving around with their phones held up to their heads don't use their headset, though. If I didn't have the capability, I would get the warning about data transfer probably 25 times a day. I think more people use it than you'd think. ATT may be an "evil corporation" (TM) but I doubt they'd build a marketing campaign out of something that none of their users ever did.

I've not seen said marketing campaign, unless you mean the ads where they happen to mention it as one of half a dozen or so features. And it's not as if marketing doesn't to sell people on things they don't need.

If it really was such a big deal as you suggest, I doubt VZW would have more subscribers than anyone else.

I do know that people talking in a forum don't represent the user community as a whole, but rather a subgroup.

As yet, I'm not finding survey results that show it's a popular feature.
post #79 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I too use it on occasion. It's nice to have. But does that mean that most people use it? The truth is, it doesn't prove that. Anecdotes such as "I use it" does not show that "most people use it", a single data point proves nothing. I've not seen evidence of the widespread or even much use of that feature.

Here is another anecdote: I've never used my external display port on any Mac notebook I've owned. Yet I don't think Mac notebooks would be better by not having that option for those that do use it.

I can't imagine not having the option for simultaneous voice and data. If Verizon and Sprint don't offer a solution then I will remain on AT&T. There is no better option for my needs.
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post #80 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I too use it on occasion. It's nice to have. But does that mean that most people use it? The truth is, it doesn't prove that. Anecdotes such as "I use it" does not show that "most people use it", a single data point proves nothing. I've not seen evidence of the widespread or even much use of that feature.

You saying you don't (think you) see people use it doesn't prove anything either. You see the person across the street with the headphones playing with the device in their hands, how do you know they're not on a phone call at that moment? I doubt you're actually asking these strangers about their usage, you're just assuming. So what we have is a bunch of users directly saying they use it, you saying you use it, and you saying you haven't confirmed many other people using it.

We do know however that ATT has spent millions of dollars reminding the USA that you can't do it on Verizon, and that you can on ATT. Lacking any hard evidence of how many people use it (since EVERYONE who replied to you said they did, including yourself), I challenge you to find a better source of evidence that at least ATT thinks that people care about it. You surely don't think that ATT didn't do any market research before buying those ads, right?

Anyway it doesn't matter, it is a feature and it will remain a feature on ATT, and it will be lacking from Verizon for the time being.
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