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New Amazon Kindle Fire tablet said to be slower version of RIM's PlayBook - Page 2

post #41 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsalive View Post

If they are, they have no business buying something so pointless when there are bills to pay. Think before you post

Actually having the money required to purchase items is overrated. Charge it to a credit card and never pay it off! That's the American Way!

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post #42 of 81
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Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

When the iPad 3 comes out in Jan or Feb, you can get him an iPad 2 at a good discount.

Which is what I'm planning to do. I'm hoping my Mom can get a little iPad time as well, but knowing my Dad he'll probably hog it.
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post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

.. "and eventually sacrifices were made (like using a slower processor)."

Block said the first generation Android Kindle is "supposed to be pretty poor," calling the device a "stopgap" device and part of an effort to "do whatever it takes to get in the game."

Is the competition really this stupid, or are they just in complete denial with what it takes to make an "iPad Killer"??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

Given that it's really an Android tablet with Amazon's custom UI and app store, I don't get why anybody would want it except for novices who don't know any better. You can already find inexpensive Android 7" tablets for around $99.

I'm already getting bombarded by associates, and friends that got suckered into buying those sub-$100.00 Android tablets into helping them diagnose problems with their tablets.

No disrespect intended, but people need to raise their standards a bit. These sub-$100 tablets are absolutely worthless pieces of junk. Lowball chinese, ridiculously cheap quality control. Some I've been shown make every attempt to appear like an iPad (a 7" version), made with cheap plastic, but has all the colors and button, switches like an iPad. Shameful.

These folks are not technically savvy. They bought them on false advertising, or by some cheapskate Android fanboy that swore they were "just as good as an iPad". Total junk. The makers should be ashamed of themselves for putting out such garbage. It leaves the consumers frustrated, angry, and feeling ripped off. Sure, they are partly to blame for their ignorance but this also (imho) affects Apple's sales since some users will be put off of tablets (including iPads) because of this bad experience.
post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

That in no way means 400k people called this an iPad killer. No correlation at all.

It's true that it doesn't mean that 400k people have called it an iPad killer, but my link is proof that quite a few people have. Some people here are acting as if nobody has called this an iPad killer, and I have proven that that is not true.
post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's true that it doesn't mean that 400k people have called it an iPad killer, but my link is proof that quite a few people have. Some people here are acting as if nobody has called this an iPad killer, and I have proven that that is not true.

Yes you have. Blogs and news sites want eyes, and what better way than being controversial.
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post #46 of 81
This can't be a good product for Amazon.

No, i don't think it is meant to be an iPad competitor, nor should it be. But the point of a touch screen is that when you touch it, the data responds. I don't notice a minor delay when i use a laptop, or desktop, because mentally i am sitting somewhat removed from the data in the first place. That isn't to say that a long delay is acceptable, but a very brief delay is something you just don't register. I would argue that in your mind the distance from keyboard to screen implies some delay, and so you subconsciously ignore minor pauses.

When you are actually touching the icons or page, the illusion is that you are interacting with the actual content, not an input device. You expect reactions to be instant. Even a tiny delay registers in the brain in some way because in the real world a page doesn't pause for a half second before moving when you drag it somewhere. The lack of input devices necessitates instant response. Otherwise, the illusion of direct interaction is broken.

That is why I found the PlayBook to be useless. Half or even full second delays before the UI reacts make it a particularly inelegant tool for using it to do... anything really.

And Amazon is making a slower version?

It will be interesting to see if even their advertise and sales reach can overcome that!
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post #47 of 81
Since the tablet market began a few years ago with the release of the iPad, I think it has evolved into or at least become recognized by the non-tech public as something that average mom and pop type people can manage. Unlike Windows or even Mac predecessors, the tablet IS your father's computer. In that sense it mimics the auto industry where there are all types of models ranging from mini-vans to sports cars. This revelation that computing doesn't have to be difficult opens the door for many models so the Kindle Fire may in fact appeal to a certain segment of the population.

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post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

Yes, Apple uses outside designers as well which is why you see copy cat.products in the market fairly quickly

Your ignorance is showing. Apple has never used outside designers! Show me one instance where Apple has used an outside designer.

And BTW if a company does use an outside designer doesn't mean that the product can then be copied by the designer or anybody else.

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post #49 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Since the tablet market began a few years ago with the release of the iPad, I think it has evolved into or at least become recognized by the non-tech public as something that average mom and pop type people can manage. Unlike Windows or even Mac predecessors, the tablet IS your father's computer. In that sense it mimics the auto industry where there are all types of models ranging from mini-vans to sports cars. This revelation that computing doesn't have to be difficult opens the door for many models so the Kindle Fire may in fact appeal to a certain segment of the population.

I agree. A simplified Android device with a name people know and trust with a baked in reason to want it (lets get one honey, if you don't like all that app stuff at worst it is still a nice kindle) should be a no brainer. I think Amazon would be fools to not be working on it.

But... It Is Even Slower!

Seriously, that is just a bad idea. If the speed and response is bad enough they could get bad reviews and sour people on the entire idea of an Amazon tablet for years. That could potentially be disastrous for them. They really don't have a lot of room to get this wrong. Would be a shame too, as they have a good reputation from the kindle so far. I didn't like the build quality of our first one, but it was "good enough" and the second appears to be much improved so far.

Be a shame to ruin that.
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post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post


I'll probably end up with a Windows 8 tablet though...

Wow. You would? I am shocked.
post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I wasn't replying specifically to what that Block guy wrote, he sounds a bit more reasonable than the stuff that some analysts are saying. Some are even calling the Amazon tablet a game changer. And the term "iPad KIller" does get thrown out a lot. Those people deserve mocking for their sheer stupidity and cluelessness.

Then those kind of people shouldn't be buying any tablets at all, not even a $99 TouchPad in a firesale.

Wrong on all counts. Impressive.

First of all, since not only did no one in the piece use the term 'iPad killer' but in fact went to pains to make exactly the opposite statement, what you did was completely inappropriate. None of 'those people' are in the room, so give your easy-to-bash, tired strawman a rest for a while.

As far as 'those kind of people' (what an ugly phrase, and you're in the habit of abusing it, too) not buying a tablet, get a clue about real life, fella. For a lot of people, the ability to access the internet (and a world of cheap apps) on as cheap a platform as they can attain is manna from heaven. In fact, an early iPad story concerned a woman who walked into an Apple Store and wanted to pay cash for an iPad, because she had no access to a bank card. (Apple changed its policy about cash sales after that.) She was broke, but she saw a chance to get 'net access on a device that was better priced than anything out there at that point. For some people, an iPad is still too much but a $99 Touchpad in a fire sale is a grand opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsalive View Post

If they are, they have no business buying something so pointless when there are bills to pay. Think before you post

I realize you're ignorant of such things, but throughout history there have been families on the edge who scrimp and save for what they see (often quite properly) as a life-changing invention. They did this for the early refrigerator, automobile, telephone, TV, etc. The advantages of such things outweighed their financial hardship, because the devices were long-term enabling - with the fridge, your food lasted longer than with an icebox, the car could get you a job out of town, etc. An iPad (or similar device), for a household that cannot afford (or maintain) a computer, is a Big Deal. But they still have to get the device at the best possible price, because they are living on the edge.

I have an idea - try thinking before you post. How's that feel?
post #52 of 81
Amazon has got to be kidding. The electronic book market is saturated and IMHO a ho hum market. I don't think the older crowd is going to be switching to new e readers the way the younger folk switch out their cell phone every month.
post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Amazon's new Android-based tablet, apparently named the Kindle Fire, is said to be based on the same basic design as RIM's PlayBook, built by the same maker, apart from having a slower processor intended to make it cheaper.

Everyone else is saying it will have a dual-core OMAP chip. What dies the Playbook use?
post #54 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

No - in fact, pains were taken to say exactly the opposite:

Block wrote, "I wouldn't get my hopes up that this is going to be an iPad-killer -- nor do I think Amazon really intends it to be."




Yeah, but what are all the Fandroids saying! All they talk about is kill the iPad.
post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by katastroff View Post


Amazon's market has nothing to do with Apple's in that field.
They do ebook readers with add-on features.

the kindle is 90's technologies. (I handle one more often than I should)

they need a competitive product in their field.


This will be an always-on, always at hand portal into Amazon's giant shopping mall. Music, movies, books, sure. But everything that anybody would ever want to buy will be in the palm of their hand with this thing.

Think about it.
post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Your ignorance is showing. Apple has never used outside designers! Show me one instance where Apple has used an outside designer.

And BTW if a company does use an outside designer doesn't mean that the product can then be copied by the designer or anybody else.

Actually, Apple has made extensive use of outside designers in its history. Less so in current years but still.

The original Mac was designed by Frog Design, as was the Apple IIc. They also designed tablets for Apple in the 1980s, although those were never brought to market. Ideo has also designed some peripherals for Apple.

More recently, a company called SurfaceInk did some design contracts for Apple, and may have played a part in the design of the iPad.

So yeah, you're the one displaying ignorance. Seriously.
post #57 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Or, if you simply want an ereader, you can get one for $129.

I can see someone paying $250 for something that's less capable than the iPad. I can not, however, see someone paying twice as much as a Kindle in order to get the limited advantages that this unit has- and an arguably worse screen.

Agreed. Between a rock and a hard place I'd say.
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post #58 of 81
What century are we in?
post #59 of 81
Has any product "killed" a popular Apple product? Nothing killed the iPod, what did the Zune do? Android phones come close but there are too many versions if you ask me. Each new tablet i see just looks bulky and poorly designed.
post #60 of 81
People see iPad as the premium and at 200-250 buck range people will purchase the new Fire. Sure it will have less features and not be as performant as an iPad but that's good enough for most people's needs. Amazon gets it! I don't think it's an iPad killer but it's definitely a smart release from Amazon.
post #61 of 81
Amazon just using this as a marketing ploy to draw attention and test the waters.
post #62 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Once that expectation takes hold, buying a crippled little thing to save money will seem less appealing.


At that point, you might expect lots of folks will just go back to their laptops, eh?
post #63 of 81
It's a TouchPad killer.
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post

I agree. A simplified Android device with a name people know and trust with a baked in reason to want it (lets get one honey, if you don't like all that app stuff at worst it is still a nice kindle) should be a no brainer. I think Amazon would be fools to not be working on it.

But... It Is Even Slower!

Seriously, that is just a bad idea. If the speed and response is bad enough they could get bad reviews and sour people on the entire idea of an Amazon tablet for years. That could potentially be disastrous for them. They really don't have a lot of room to get this wrong. Would be a shame too, as they have a good reputation from the kindle so far. I didn't like the build quality of our first one, but it was "good enough" and the second appears to be much improved so far.

Be a shame to ruin that.

Err...the processor is slower. How does that correlate to the experience of the tablet being slower?
Last I checked, the Playbook UI and the Kindle UI will be different.
post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's true that it doesn't mean that 400k people have called it an iPad killer, but my link is proof that quite a few people have. Some people here are acting as if nobody has called this an iPad killer, and I have proven that that is not true.


Not when 300k are newsbot regurgitations of the same two blogs and the rest are regurgitations of the five actual articles that wrote that it's NOT an iPad killer, which also cause them to appear in the results. I'd hate to have to sit on a jury with you.
post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

It's a TouchPad killer.

More of a violator of the recently deceased...
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post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppermonkey View Post

Err...the processor is slower. How does that correlate to the experience of the tablet being slower?
Last I checked, the Playbook UI and the Kindle UI will be different.

I am not sure the UI itself is the issue. We don't know (or at least i don't, maybe you are the god of android programers) how much of the performance is the actual UI and how much is the underlying system. I use the term UI because that is what people see and what they will be jarred by if it lags.

I am also pretty sure there is nothing to check with as yet as to what UI this thing will run, so i am not sure how you checked. Unless you helped make it.

Either way, unless the UI is the vast majority of the PlayBooks problems, and the chip in this new device is only slightly slower, and the Amazon UI is greatly improved, it doesn't look good. A slower processor generally means a slower device. We will see.
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post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Your ignorance is showing. Apple has never used outside designers! Show me one instance where Apple has used an outside designer.

And BTW if a company does use an outside designer doesn't mean that the product can then be copied by the designer or anybody else.

http://ipod.about.com/od/understandi...ented-ipod.htm
post #69 of 81
If Amazon markets it as a "color Kindle" and keeps the word "tablet" out of it, I think they could do alright.

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post #70 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Yeah, but what are all the Fandroids saying! All they talk about is kill the iPad.

When you run into that, confront it. That's what I do. But don't invent it where it doesn't exist. That only gives fodder to the 'mindless Apple fanboy' accusers. (Which is ironic, since all the Android commercials portray their users as mindless, noisy machines... but such irony is lost on some people.)
post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post

I am not sure the UI itself is the issue. We don't know (or at least i don't, maybe you are the god of android programers) how much of the performance is the actual UI and how much is the underlying system. I use the term UI because that is what people see and what they will be jarred by if it lags.

I am also pretty sure there is nothing to check with as yet as to what UI this thing will run, so i am not sure how you checked. Unless you helped make it.

Either way, unless the UI is the vast majority of the PlayBooks problems, and the chip in this new device is only slightly slower, and the Amazon UI is greatly improved, it doesn't look good. A slower processor generally means a slower device. We will see.

Nope. I'm not.
All I'm saying is just because the processor is slower doesn't mean that the experience will be slower when comparing two products with similar hardware but different UI and OS's. Until such a time when we can compare the two products side by side, no one can predict what the experience would be like. Of course, if the processor is 'vastly' slower then we can make an educated guess but with the current info we have? Sorry, we just can't.
post #72 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

So, a slower and worse version of the Playbook, which flopped by the way, is supposed to be the next game changing iPad killer to come along?


C'mon. I asked why another 7" Android tablet from Amazon would succeed where all other 7" Android tablets have failed, and everyone who replied said it was Amazon's ecosystem. Apparently, Jeff Bezos could fart in a jar and sell millions of jars on Amazon because of their ecosystem.

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post #73 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

If Amazon markets it as a "color Kindle" and keeps the word "tablet" out of it, I think they could do alright.

Maybe. But then it won't really get used as a tablet. I mean, does anyone use the Kindle today for serious web browsing? I don't.

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post #74 of 81
So I wonder what happened to this:-

http://youtu.be/IFa4V10xS-o


...and the eyestrain people.

Amazing what a few 10 millions of iPad sales can do.
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post #75 of 81
Q: If specs are all that matter, why is a 2 and half year old phone still the 2nd most popular sold in the US each month (the 3GS), and a 15-month old phone the most popular (iPhone 4)?

A: They don't matter. It is all about the software and marketplace/ecosystem.
post #76 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

If Amazon markets it as a "color Kindle" and keeps the word "tablet" out of it, I think they could do alright.

That's the more reasonable comparison - but I'm not sure it's a winner.

People use the Kindle to read books. Does a color screen justify twice the price? Especially when all the Kindle fans have been bragging about how great e-Ink is and how inferior LCD screens are? So you pay twice as much and get an arguably (*) inferior screen simply in order to read your books in color? I'm not seeing it.


* Personally, my iPad is very readable and I don't see any significant advantage to eInk in most circumstances. However, the Kindle fans use the argument that LCD is inferior, so it's not unreasonable to use their argument when discussing Kindles. Plus, the LCD clearly isn't as good in bright sunlight.
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post #77 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Or, if you simply want an ereader, you can get one for $129.

I can see someone paying $250 for something that's less capable than the iPad. I can not, however, see someone paying twice as much as a Kindle in order to get the limited advantages that this unit has- and an arguably worse screen.

If it doesn't have an IPS screen it's going to have a harder time of it as an ereader than the Nook Color. I don't buy that it'll have an inferior screen.
post #78 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

C'mon. I asked why another 7" Android tablet from Amazon would succeed where all other 7" Android tablets have failed, and everyone who replied said it was Amazon's ecosystem. Apparently, Jeff Bezos could fart in a jar and sell millions of jars on Amazon because of their ecosystem.

Only if his farts came with a year of free Prime membership and movies. If it doesn't, then not so much. $300 for Prime vs $250 for no Prime seems a little meh to me.

This isn't an iPad killer. Unless it's totally lame it's a Nook Color killer. Its hard to imagine that they can screw that up but it's possible. Charging $300 is one way of doing so if B&N holds the line at $250 for Nook Color 2 and say drops to $200 for the original Nook Color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Maybe. But then it won't really get used as a tablet. I mean, does anyone use the Kindle today for serious web browsing? I don't.

It isn't any more like today's Kindle than the Nook Color was like the Nook.

If the aspect ratio is the same as the Nook it's a little narrower (portrait) or short (landscape) than I prefer for surfing but it works well enough. Better experience than on an iPhone if the browser itself is semi-reasonable which it's reported to be.

@shen, jeez, there's only a gazillion reposts of Siegler's post. Here's the relevant section for you:

"Overall, the UI of this Kindle felt very responsive. You can flick through the carousel seamlessly. This is something Amazon has apparently been working on quite a bit, I’m told. And they continue to. Some of the page-turning touch mechanics still needed a bit of work in the version I used."

Given that they're heavily customizing Android they can give their carousel UI full 3d acceleration which is one of the weaker links in the Android UI implementation. That should make it as performant as on iOS which is snappy enough even on the original iPad with lower specs.

I'm happy that there's rumor of a Nook Color 2 as well but I do think the Kindle Fire/Amazon will have a distinct ecosystem advantage over NC2/Barnes and Noble.

This will be a pretty decent Christmas for Android tablets...except neither looks like Android or act like full tablets...still if you count them they should both sell pretty well.
post #79 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I am left wondering what RIM has to say about this. Don't they have any IP interest in their own design? Unless unlike Apple, RIM writes "Designed in China, Made in China" on the back of their device. Is a fabricator like Quanta free to take the template of whatever they make for someone else and repurpose it for another client? Something is missing here.

Yeah, I know, the Playbook is not counted a big success, but still . . .

Hmmmm, I think that is how Samsung works. right? You make it, we copy all we want and its your fault for not making it even better.... for us to copy. China rule of manufacturing. LOL

Seriously I asked the same question. Even if RIM did not directly design it, if they laid out the specs and basic rules to design, then the smarter lawyers usually make the contract such that RIM would own the design.

Then again, we are talking about RIM...... LOL If Quanta owns the design, they are fully free to make a second model with mostly the same inside and sell it them selves.

Just some food for thought.
en
post #80 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankx32 View Post

The kind of person that would actually fall for buying into this Kindle crap would be my 61 year old mother, but thankfully she has me around to steer her right...

Have you considered reasons why a Kindle device might be a better choice for a person's 61 year old mom? If books were the overwhelming primary use then there really is a case to be made for a Kindle over a more complicated, heavier tablet device. I have an iPad and for reading pdf files it is clearly the better device, but for literary works a 'better' Kindle might be good choice. Weight, size, battery life, 'always' available and free connection to the bookstore are legitimate advantages to consider. One doesn't have to be an Apple hater to see Amazon as a potential real competitor.
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