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Architecture critic pans Apple's 'spaceship' campus as 'troubling,' 'scary' - Page 3

post #81 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

OMFG. Seriously? Look, Steve Jobs has created some amazing products but for pete's sake... he's not an architect. Nor should he try to be one. He should stick with what he knows. This building is a disaster.

I'm fairly certain that Steve's input to the architectural design of the building was limited to drawing two concentric circles on a piece of paper and saying, "Here. Build me this." No, Steve is not an architectnor was he trying to be. What he is is a visionary genius. He knows how to motivate and drive the best people to do their best workthis includes architects.
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post #82 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

... Elizabeth Warren .... blah, blah, blah, hundreds of random insulting remarks etc.

Please keep your lame, rabid, confusing and off-topic political remarks to yourself.
post #83 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

I agree. However, this building is not unique and it's certainly not modern. At least not in the sense I assume you meant "modern" (i.e. current). Not by a LONG shot. It's aesthetic is more closely aligned with the failed utopian visions of the early modernists like Le Corbusier from 100 year ago.

I don't see it. Ville Contemporaine was centered on massive structures dominating the sky line. While the structure here is massive, it really only looks that way from the air.

Sure there is glass and steel, but that is contemporary architecture, it is in no way unusual today. The curved glass is unique, but hardly Corbusier. If you meant the green spaces, that is an imoortant piece of any large scale project today. You can not get permit to build anything larger than a duplex without a significant green space plan.
post #84 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunkybart View Post

Actually, it's part MY money -- the money belongs to the shareholders...

The new campus itself is fine -- I think others are correct that it will be a modern classic. From the air, it's a sort of ugly to me, but from the side views, I like it.

The only concern I have is to make sure that Apple is spending money in the places that have the highest return.

Well then you should replace the board.
post #85 of 194
This is just a way for this critic to focus on himself ... sad.
post #86 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

1) No one will buy the iPhone. it doesn't have a keyboard.

2) No one will buy the iPod. No wireless. Less space than a Creative Nomad. Lame.

3) No one will buy the iPad. it's jut a big iPod Touch.

4) Apple retail stores will fail.

5) Architecture critic pans Apple's 'spaceship' campus as 'troubling,' 'scary'

See a pattern?

Yes, critics are optimists

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post #87 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I am going to play a critic for a minute and I'm going to critique Paul Goldberger's style.



One first notices that he's bald. He really needs to lose whatever hair he has left on the left and right side above his ears. It is not a modern style at all and sporting something that makes somebody look old is reminiscent of an outdated sense of fashion and it is no longer appropriate in this current century. I find this most troubling, and not to mention, a little bit scary.

For perfect symmetry to be achieved, he needs to go with the clean look and shave everything off. That would produce much smoother, cleaner and purer lines and it would also be more harmonious with his surroundings and with nature. His current style is quite similar to what a 16 century monk would sport on their heads. It is simply put, not aesthetically pleasing and I find it to be a follicle disaster of enormous proportions.

I know this is a joke but I couldn't agree more! As someone who lost a lot of hair in their mid 20's I started buzzing it all off. I hate to see older guys hold onto those scraps of hair.
post #88 of 194
I think the design is horrible and I don't think Steve is in his right mind. Surgeries, medication, chemotherapy all take their toll on the mind's chemistry.
post #89 of 194
"Its said that Steve Jobs considers this building to be a key part of his legacy, which would be unfortunate, because it would mean that his last contribution to his company might well be his least meaningful."

Well, Paul, being that you are a guy who at one time won a Pulitzer for your critiques (the same year the Mac was introduced coincidentally), I'd have to say it's unfortunate that this article is part of your legacy because it seems to be your least meaningful.
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post #90 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I think the design is horrible and I don't think Steve is in his right mind. Surgeries, medication, chemotherapy all take their toll on the mind's chemistry.

... and Foster is a hack who just builds whatever he's told to build?

[not to mention that on Steve's worst day he probably functions much better than any of us (you for sure) on our best days)
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post #91 of 194
I don't care too much about the architectural critics, but I was interested in the part about Apple supplying their own electric--using the city grid only as back-up. I don't remember reading about this before...

Anyone know how they are doing this? Is this common?
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post #92 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I think the design is horrible and I don't think Steve is in his right mind. Surgeries, medication, chemotherapy all take their toll on the mind's chemistry.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #93 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I think the design is horrible and I don't think Steve is in his right mind. Surgeries, medication, chemotherapy all take their toll on the mind's chemistry.

Yeah, and you sound like a bit of a moron- no offense. Apple is one of the richest companies on the planet- you think it's just SJ running around doing whatever the fuck he wants, without the vetting of dozens, if not hundreds of experts along the way? You don't think every aspect of this building has been looked at by experts in their fields, and will continue to be considered with a fine tooth comb? Again, your post, and those similar to yours, are simply moronic in their childish assumptions and naivity.
post #94 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

I don't care too much about the architectural critics, but I was interested in the part about Apple supplying their own electric--using the city grid only as back-up. I don't remember reading about this before...

Anyone know how they are doing this? Is this common?


They said natural gas. Some have speculated Bloom Energy may be involved.

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post #95 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

Feeding trolls today AppleInsider?

Generating ad revenue. Just count the clicks on this article...

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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GOA

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post #96 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kubrick View Post

I know this is a joke but I couldn't agree more! As someone who lost a lot of hair in their mid 20's I started buzzing it all off. I hate to see older guys hold onto those scraps of hair.

You're right about that. My intent wasn't to make fun of any bald people. I am thinning myself on the top.
post #97 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

And why should anyone care what this idiot "Architecture Critic" has to say about anything?? You guys on this site need to do a reality check. People like this bring NOTHING to the party. What has he created? What has he built from scratch? Who has he employees?

NOTHING, NOTHING and NOBODY!

This is still America. How many of you have bothered picking up a copy of our constitution and read it? If you haven't please do so. If Apple decides it wants to build a freaking space ship and put the first store on Mars.... IT'S THEIR MONEY.... they can do whatever in the heck they want to with it. It's not the shareholders.... it's the company's. The CEO, board and shareholders all have input... but not some loser moron of an "Architecture Critic"..... What a freaking joke.

Critics for the New York Times are educated and not idiots. How much to you know about architecture? The constitution as far as I know says nothing about buildings shaped like donuts. All towns, cities, counties have rules regarding zoning, building sizes, environmental impact, and cultural impact. I am not saying the Apple donut is the Mc Mansion of office buildings but this critic as raised some very good points one is the financial clout the company has and its ability to get it's way.
post #98 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I think the design is horrible and I don't think Steve is in his right mind. Surgeries, medication, chemotherapy all take their toll on the mind's chemistry.

In 2004 (the year you signed up for this forum) Jobs announced he had been diagnosed with cancer. Since then they have released a wide array of very successful products that have made them the highest valued publicly traded company on the planet, the highest mindshare of any company and products, and have set them up for repeated and longterm success for years to come with or without Jobs direct involvement.

Yet somehow you deem his treatment for cancer since 2004 as somehow stripping his mind of any and all sensibility because you don't like the proposed plan for the new campus that he didn't directly design as he is not an architect. You give no reasons why you think he's lost his mind. You give no reason why anyone who likes the design has also gone crackers, including the architects, upper-level Apple employees, and Cupertino officials involved in the project.

What is your basis for this accusation? Where is your reasoning as to how he can have managed Apple as a company so well but somehow been rendered mentally retarded and hoodwinked by all involved in the new campus design?
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post #99 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kubrick View Post

I know this is a joke but I couldn't agree more! As someone who lost a lot of hair in their mid 20's I started buzzing it all off. I hate to see older guys hold onto those scraps of hair.

making fun of someone's physical appearance is sad and is at a level of 13 year old. you should be ashamed of yourself
post #100 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I think the design is horrible and I don't think Steve is in his right mind. Surgeries, medication, chemotherapy all take their toll on the mind's chemistry.

That is one of the most retarded comments ever posted here and it sounds like you could use some serious medication, because the chemistry in your mind seems to be totally out of wack. You don't have to like the design, but to somehow connect that to Steve Job's chemo? You're lucky that I'm not a mod.
post #101 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

making fun of someone's physical appearance is sad and is at a level of 13 year old. you should be ashamed of yourself

There is nothing wrong with making fun of people's physical appearance, it depends on the circumstances.

If somebody is born with an extra eye in the middle of their head, it would be kind of stupid and quite mean to make fun of such a person, because it's not like it was their choice and they had no say in the process. To make fun of somebody because of their skin color is also stupid and retarded, as people don't get to choose that.

But, it's perfectly ok to make fun of somebody's appearance when they make deliberate choices that aren't genetically chosen. If somebody dresses like a fool and gets horn implants in their head, they shouldn't be surprised if other people are going to stare and ridicule that freak.

Making fun of a woman with tiny breasts is also quite dumb, as that is just what nature dealt them. But it's perfectly ok to make fun of a girl who got huge, fake looking implants that are 5 sizes too big for them.

Do you see the difference?
post #102 of 194
Is that the same critic that said something along the line of the Eiffle Tower ruined the Paris skyline and was an eyesore that should be torn down?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiffel_Tower
post #103 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

Critics for the New York Times are educated and not idiots. How much to you know about architecture? The constitution as far as I know says nothing about buildings shaped like donuts. All towns, cities, counties have rules regarding zoning, building sizes, environmental impact, and cultural impact. I am not saying the Apple donut is the Mc Mansion of office buildings but this critic as raised some very good points one is the financial clout the company has and its ability to get it's way.

... and I could give you a litany of examples where art/architecture critics have been wrong in the past.

It's one person's opinion. That's all. Whether it's based on endless years of research and education seems to be irrelevant (refer to my first paragraph).

As I've said before... get better mass transit in Cupertino... cut the vehicles going to the campus by 2500 over the next 5 years and another 2000 over the next 5 years after that... and most of the concerns will disappear.

The EIR on the project doesn't come out until Spring next year... I can hardly wait to see what they have to say. That should be worth a few hundred clicks for AI.
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post #104 of 194
[QUOTE=Zaphodsplanet;1950907]And why should anyone care what this idiot "Architecture Critic" has to say about anything?? You guys on this site need to do a reality check. People like this bring NOTHING to the party. What has he created? What has he built from scratch? Who has he employees?

NOTHING, NOTHING and NOBODY!

This is still America. How many of you have bothered picking up a copy of our constitution and read it? If you haven't please do so. If Apple decides it wants to build a freaking space ship and put the first store on Mars.... IT'S THEIR MONEY.... they can do whatever in the heck they want to with it. It's not the shareholders.... it's the company's. The CEO, board and shareholders all have input... but not some loser moron of an "Architecture Critic"..... What a freaking joke.[/QUOTE

Only way these clowns feel relevant is to find fault with everything .wonder what he thinks of the New MLK monument colossus in Washington DC ? MADE IN CHINA by the way.
post #105 of 194
The last paragraph of a critique by Witold Rybczynski [Slate] of Robert Bruegmann's book, Sprawl:

What this iconoclastic little book demonstrates is that sprawl is not the anomalous result of American zoning laws, or mortgage interest tax deduction, or cheap gas, or subsidized highway construction, or cultural antipathy toward cities. Nor is it an aberration. Bruegmann shows that asking whether sprawl is "good" or "bad" is the wrong question. Sprawl is and always has been inherent to urbanization. It is driven less by the regulations of legislators, the actions of developers, and the theories of city planners, than by the decisions of millions of individualsAdam Smith's "invisible hand." This makes altering it very complicated, indeed. There are scores of books offering "solutions" to sprawl. Their authors would do well to read this book. To find solutionsor, rather, better ways to manage sprawl, which is not the same thingit helps to get the problem right.

http://www.slate.com/id/2129636/
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post #106 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Is that the same critic that said something along the line of the Eiffle Tower ruined the Paris skyline and was an eyesore that should be torn down?

There is a difference between a building that affects the skyline and one that is low and hidden by the natural setting. Really, how many people are going to be able to see it from their home or office? Relatively few I would imagine, at least compared to a skyscraper.

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post #107 of 194
Oh blargh. So, I went to the trouble of actually reading his commentary, and in the portion where he actually talks about the building, he uses words, but he doesn't really say anything.

Quote:
but who wants to work in a gigantic donut?

The only time you'll see the "donut" is if you're flying more than 1,000 feet overhead. If you're working inside the building, or strolling around it, you'll see endlessly curving walls of glass.
Quote:
But buildings arent spaceships, any more than they are iPhones.

Wow, sir. You are very very smart.
Quote:
So why is Fosters design troubling, maybe even a bit scary?

Never really got around to answering your own rhetorical question. Of course, words like "troubling" and "scary" with regard to architectural design will certainly generate a lot of hits, and will help in Google searches as well. Mission accomplished!
Quote:
A building is also a tool, but of a very different sort. In architecture, scalethe size of various parts of a building in proportion to one another and to the size of human beingscounts for a lot. With this building, there seems to be very little sense of any connection to human size.

This comment suggests to me that you never bothered to look at any of the renderings, floor plans, or descriptions that I just downloaded from Cupertino's planning website.
Quote:
Flexibility is a hallmark of the iPad, and it counts in architecture, too, but how much flexibility is there in a vast office governed entirely by geometry?

Again, dude. Look at the drawings. Looks to me like there's a lot of room for flexibility within the "donut". As to the "governed entirely by geometry" comment, every amazing architectural structure begins as a few simple strokes of a pen or pencil on paper. Visionary architects have a tendency to begin with simple geometric designs, and then find ways to make them work in the real world.
Quote:
For all of Fosters sleekness, this Apple building seems more like a twenty-first-century version of the Pentagon.

Aw, man. It's like you're not even trying.

Good critics understand that real criticism is about deconstructing something and sussing out its workings and then commenting on thatpointing out the strengths and weaknesses. Bad critics mistake "criticism" for "criticizing", i.e. they think their job is simply to say "that's crap," and then try to come up with stuff to back up their assertion.

I'm not trying to suggest that the Apple Spaceship is The Best Thing Ever To Be Built. I'm sure there are legitimate issues and questions to be raised. Mr. What's-His-Name didn't raise them.
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post #108 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and I could give you a litany of examples where art/architecture critics have been wrong in the past.

It's one person's opinion. That's all. Whether it's based on endless years of research and education seems to be irrelevant (refer to my first paragraph).

As I've said before... get better mass transit in Cupertino... cut the vehicles going to the campus by 2500 over the next 5 years and another 2000 over the next 5 years after that... and most of the concerns will disappear.

The EIR on the project doesn't come out until Spring next year... I can hardly wait to see what they have to say. That should be worth a few hundred clicks for AI.

If I recall correctly, Steve said that Apple has a fleet of 20 buses running biodiesel. Assuming those buses can hold up to 50 people, that's potentially 1,000 cars eliminated. I think Apple is also giving incentives to employees who bicycle to work, and to employees who carpool.
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post #109 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

The main concern seems to be with cars... always cars... with no mention about how you get the employees to the campus. I think these critics want us to go back to the old company town model... build the office and then place company controlled multi story housing all around with company controlled shops on the main floors.

I just wish they'd give examples instead of just criticism. Criticism without solutions is just idiotic to me.

Move it to China with the rest of the operation....
post #110 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

And why should anyone care what this idiot "Architecture Critic" has to say about anything?? You guys on this site need to do a reality check. People like this bring NOTHING to the party. What has he created? What has he built from scratch? Who has he employees?

NOTHING, NOTHING and NOBODY!

This is still America. How many of you have bothered picking up a copy of our constitution and read it? If you haven't please do so. If Apple decides it wants to build a freaking space ship and put the first store on Mars.... IT'S THEIR MONEY.... they can do whatever in the heck they want to with it. It's not the shareholders.... it's the company's. The CEO, board and shareholders all have input... but not some loser moron of an "Architecture Critic"..... What a freaking joke.

That's right - this is America. And anyone has a right to criticize Apple's design plans, in any forum they want. Before you give us a civics lesson, maybe you could brush up on the concept of Freedom of Speech.

People, people, people, you're ready to kill the guy because he doesn't like Apple's design. Get a grip on yourselves.
post #111 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

If I recall correctly, Steve said that Apple has a fleet of 20 buses running biodiesel. Assuming those buses can hold up to 50 people, that's potentially 1,000 cars eliminated. I think Apple is also giving incentives to employees who bicycle to work, and to employees who carpool.

I should have mentioned that I was talking about the parking spaces for over 4000 vehicles in the parking structure along the 280. My reduction numbers would have reduced the need to zero for that structure in 10 years.
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post #112 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post

Nope - *massively* big parking structure stretching along I-280. I'm really disappointed in Apple both for including this gargantuan structure in the campus (when it runs so counter to the purported goal of having open space and a 21st century campus), as well as in the fact that none of the published drawings show this behemoth.

It would be a lot more expensive for Apple to put it underground. And besides - its not like Apple owes a nice view to the people on the freeway. The tall parking lot will shield Apple's property from the noise and pollution.
post #113 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

steve job's design is pedestrian

That's a big part of the point that many critics are making.
post #114 of 194
Where do these people come from? There's always a critic. My question is, why does he care? He doesn't have to work there. Why meddle in other people's business? He either has nothing better to do, or he's attention deprived.

Regardless, I think the building design is cool, and I'd love to visit it some day. Apple has built hundreds of buildings around the world now, and every single one of them are pretty amazing. Why would anyone think this new campus wouldn't be spectacular?

And there's nothing wrong with round. And there's nothing wrong with the Pentagon either - some people keep comparing it like there's something wrong with it.
post #115 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

There is a difference between a building that affects the skyline and one that is low and hidden by the natural setting. Really, how many people are going to be able to see it from their home or office? Relatively few I would imagine, at least compared to a skyscraper.

Tens of thousands of people will drive past it every day, and they won't even see it because it will be hidden by the parking garage.
post #116 of 194
What I don't understand about the design is the flow - how does one efficiently move through a large circular building?

Certainly, the organization of people and departments will be carefully planned to minimize the need to take a sweeping walk around the circumference, and knowing Apple, there may be some pioneering horizontal conveyors to move people quickly, but the design seems to present challenges from this perspective.

Otherwise, I kind of like the futuristic feel, and the large amount of glass and openings in and around the exterior spaces will likely make it feel like an incredibly open environment, as opposed to something confining like many offices do.
post #117 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ort View Post

de ja vu?

Isn't this story like 2 months old? Or is this some new critic? I swear I've seen this before...

... or is this some other architectural critic making practically identical vague criticisms?

The other critic was from The LA Tmes.

New York and LA are two examples of how Architecture hasn't progressed.
post #118 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Tens of thousands of people will drive past it every day, and they won't even see it because it will be hidden by the parking garage.

Which also probably blends in very nicely with its surroundings, albeit the i280 concrete jungle.

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post #119 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

What I don't understand about the design is the flow - how does one efficiently move through a large circular building?

Certainly, the organization of people and departments will be carefully planned to minimize the need to take a sweeping walk around the circumference, and knowing Apple, there may be some pioneering horizontal conveyors to move people quickly, but the design seems to present challenges from this perspective.

Otherwise, I kind of like the futuristic feel, and the large amount of glass and openings in and around the exterior spaces will likely make it feel like an incredibly open environment, as opposed to something confining like many offices do.

Look at the size of this proposed building compared to the entirty of the other campus with it's four main structures. It might be large enough that you won't notice the curve.
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post #120 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

He then went on to call the design "troubling" and "maybe even a bit scary" because he feels the giant circular shape lacks the functionality of devices like the iPhone, iPad or MacBook lineup. He said that architecture should take into account scale, while he feels Apple's new campus does not connect to human size.

Really??? I have only one thing to say about this comment....


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