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Amazon Kindle Fire aims to undercut Apple's iPad with $199 price - Page 2

post #41 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:08am
And come Black Friday, it will be known as Amazon's Fire Sale Tablet.
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post #42 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcphoto View Post

And come Black Friday, it will be known as Amazon's Fire Sale Tablet.

Wow, that quickly, eh?
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post #43 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

So in other words it will compete with the ipad. Just not that well.

No, it means that it will compete with a segment of the iPad market, but not the whole market. The iPad will have to move quickly to being more of a computer than a toy to stay ahead of the game.
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post #44 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

7 inch tablets are too small for any normal person's fingers.

Yet, somehow people have managed to make do with the much smaller screen of the iPhone.

Sorry, but just because Steve Jobs says something, that doesn't make it instantly become true.
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post #45 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:12am
This is the poor man's iPad. The question is will Amazon make money out of it. Also how long does the battery last.
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post #46 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Yet, somehow people have managed to make do with the much smaller screen of the iPhone.

I was going to explain the inherent difference, but if you're still making this argument, you can't understand why you're wrong.
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post #47 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

This is the poor man's iPad. The question is will Amazon make money out of it.

It's a loss leader. Unlike Apple though, Amazon sell just about everything and shipping it with Prime is a good move as it should boost their sales.
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post #48 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodude View Post

Like the iPad won't eventually compete with Laptops and isn't already competing with Netbooks?

i never said or implied such a thing.

please, continue talking to the straw man of your own making.
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post #49 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Yup, more people will buy the iPad when they realise the limitations of the Kindle Fire. Call me a fanboy but I'm not feeling this Kindle Fire. I could be wrong, and hope that there is some real tablet competition but these other tablet makers are not "getting" it. 7"... it's a gimmicky kind of size for what it hopes to achieve. A slower processor, 7" and half the iPad price tells me Amazon is still in trial mode. And that's not good enough for customers these days.

As for Amazon's e-Readers, yes they have some decent momentum but remember e-Readers are big in mostly Western countries but not Asian markets. I don't have a link but that's my gut feeling. Maybe e-Readers for traditional and simplified Chinese would be increasingly successful but not English e-Readers in Asian countries, particularly greater China. Also, has anyone looked at the age demographic for e-Readers? I think they are probably skewed towards older adults.

The effing ignorance of some people is amazing. This product will impact iPad sales with out a doubt.

95% of iPad users are very simplistic users, browse the web, email and 10-20 apps. The iPad is at least $499.

With this Kindle Fire you can do the same thing basically. If the app is already written for andriod it will run on this. Yes it has fewer apps, no camera, smaller screen etc. For some people that will be a show stopper, however WAY MORE people will jump at this device because it SAVES you at least $300!!!
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post #50 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

7 inch tablets are too small for any normal person's fingers.

While one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of their present size.

I never understood this line of reasoning, even though it originated with Steve Jobs. A 7" 16:9 display has nearly twice the 4:3 screen area of the iPhone. and more than triple the 16:9 area. Yet somehow the iPhone still works with human fingers.

Is 7" smaller than 10"? Duh. Would the same number of pixels be smaller on the 7" display? Duh. Could you somehow represent a finger-sized target on either size display? Duh.
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post #51 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

The effing ignorance of some people is amazing. This product will impact iPad sales with out a doubt.

95% of iPad users are very simplistic users, browse the web, email and 10-20 apps. The iPad is at least $499.

With this Kindle Fire you can do the same thing basically. If the app is already written for andriod it will run on this. Yes it has fewer apps, no camera, smaller screen etc. For some people that will be a show stopper, however WAY MORE people will jump at this device because it SAVES you at least $300!!!

For proof of this, just look at all the successful 7" tablets on the market today.

Quote:
4:3 screen area of the iPhone.

3:2.
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post #52 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:19am
I just don't get this product... for half the price (and also less than half) you can basically buy the same product from Amazon.

As mentioned previously... I see a Black Friday fire sale in the Fire's future..
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post #53 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacs72 View Post

i never said or implied such a thing.

please, continue talking to the straw man of your own making.

I don't make straw men, but feel free to take out a line of the argument and attacking it.

There's functional overlap between the Kindle and iPad. Much like there is between Netbooks and iPads. So the fact that they're "in different markets" is a moot point. They are still competing.

EDIT: Product page is already up here. The UI looks decent. Android tablet makers should hang it up, Honeycomb is uninspiring and lacks content. This has content and is cheaper.
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post #54 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:21am
Silly me can't find the amout of memory the fire has.

I like to store some files on my devices so that they can be used on a plane or boat or remote locations, so while the cloud is nice, local storage is nicer.

How much does the fire have?
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post #55 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No, it means that it will compete with a segment of the iPad market, but not the whole market. The iPad will have to move quickly to being more of a computer than a toy to stay ahead of the game.

That's kind of a distinction without a difference. Gatorguy said it doesn't compete with the ipad but it may take sales from it. Taking sales is competing.
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post #56 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:22am
The iPad is a toy, for computer money. I would be more likely to buy a Kindle Fire. $199 is toy money for me. $499 is toy money for the more affuent.

IMO Amazon makes a strong point that this market does not justify a $499 price tag. Not to me, anyway. That could buy me a secondary laptop. Laptops are computers, iPad is a toy.
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post #57 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

A 7" 16:9 display has nearly twice the 4:3 screen area of the iPhone.

Do you know that the screen is measured by diagonal distance, not the width or the height right?

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post #58 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:24am
This is going to have an effect on Apple's holiday sales.

1) Kindle Fire is cheaper.

2) It is a new product.
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post #59 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

The iPad is a toy, for computer money. I would be more likely to buy a Kindle Fire. $199 is toy money for me. $499 is toy money for the more affuent.

IMO Amazon makes a strong point that this market does not justify a $499 price tag. Not to me, anyway. That could buy me a secondary laptop. Laptops are computers, iPad is a toy.

Ah, it's this kind of troll again. Didn't miss it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

This is going to have an effect on Apple's holiday sales.

Yeah, they'll increase.

Quote:
2) It is a new product.

Meaning absolutely nothing.
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post #60 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:26am
7" "baby" magazines.
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post #61 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankx32 View Post

I don't like how when I'm writing an email and my gmail account underlines the word iPad in red, shit even AI underlines it, iPod however does not come up misspelled.

Settings > General > Keyboard > Reset Keyboard, I think.
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post #62 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Also, has anyone looked at the age demographic for e-Readers? I think they are probably skewed towards older adults.

They're the ones with money to buy thingsand they read.
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post #63 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Apple's iPad sales will be affected even tho the Kindle Fire is not a direct competitor.

Should be great for sales of the Nook Color too..... </close>
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post #64 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverhuh View Post

and I think it will have an impact on IPAD sales

It most certainly will. The questions remains, however, to what degree exactly? Nobody knows that, not even the defensive fanboys around here.
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post #65 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

For proof of this, just look at all the successful 7" tablets on the market today.



3:2.

The ignorance continues.

Please show me a 7 inch tablet that has the full might of a Amazon echo system behind it....including the Cloud storage Amazon already has and the Andriod app store it already has.

Focus all you want on the smaller screen, but realize that many people use the hell out of their smartphone today and have Zero problems with it. This tablet is the same price or less than the iPhone that will be announced next week.
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post #66 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Do you know that the screen is measured by diagonal distance, not the width or the height right?

Yes, and I stand corrected by Tallest Skil, iPhone is 3:2 not 4:3. So its screen areas are:

iPhone (3:2): ~6 sq in
Fire (assuming it's 16:9): ~15.6 sq in
iPad (4:3): 48 sq in

So this definitely proves that big things are bigger than small things.
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post #67 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

It's not in the same category as an iPad. The Coyote might be but for now this thing is a slow poke.

who cares? it does everything i do with my ipad. not like you need dual core to read a book.

i thought iFans didn't care about specs?
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post #68 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by applecider View Post

Silly me can't find the amout of memory the fire has.

I like to store some files on my devices so that they can be used on a plane or boat or remote locations, so while the cloud is nice, local storage is nicer.

How much does the fire have?

8 gigs internal. It has a USB port, so I guess in theory it's storage capacity is equal to however many USB flash drives you want to buy.
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post #69 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:34am
Might be a cheaper, interesting way for parents (who already own iPads) to introduce their children to the world of tablet computing.
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post #70 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacInsider2 View Post

Not sure how anyone can weigh in on this yet given we have no idea on the exact capabilities/specs of the Fire

There will be plenty of weighing in on this by the "anything but Apple" crowd. This will be their new, potential White Knight coming to save the world from the clutches of the useless toy known as the iPad.

But there is definitely a market for an inexpensive device that can deliver the basics. We'll just have to wait and see.
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post #71 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by applecider View Post

Silly me can't find the amout of memory the fire has.

I like to store some files on my devices so that they can be used on a plane or boat or remote locations, so while the cloud is nice, local storage is nicer.

How much does the fire have?

8 Gigs. Plus unlimited cloud storage for free.

And unlike any iPad, it has a USB port, so carrying a 2 TB portable drive on the plane or the boat is not a problem.

Sounds like it is perfect for you!
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post #72 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Please show me a 7 inch tablet that has the full might of a Amazon [ecosystem] behind it

I can't. However, that doesn't automatically make you right. A well-established ecosystem is meaningless if its vessel of interaction is terrible.

Quote:
Focus all you want on the smaller screen, but realize that many people use the hell out of their smartphone today and have Zero problems with it.

AGAIN you people ignore the fundamental differences here.
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post #73 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

That's kind of a distinction without a difference. Gatorguy said it doesn't compete with the ipad but it may take sales from it. Taking sales is competing.

I think the proper phrase is "doesn't directly compete ..."

The Amazon tablet is aimed at a different end user, but this same end user has up until now been buying iPads at lest some of the time. So if you are buying an iPad and just using it for reading and playing the occasional game then you might the tempted to use this device instead. It doesn't do as much, but it's cheaper.

It doesn't "directly compete" because what it does is just a subset of what the iPad can potentially do. At the same time, recent studies have shown that a lot of iPad buyers do regard them as "toys" and do primarily use them just for reading and playing the occasional game.

I don't think it's right to say that the two devices compete or don't compete. The situation is more complicated than that.

In terms of iPad sales, I would say that some sales will indeed be stolen by "dumb" or "locked" tablets like Amazon's as tablet's gain popularity in general. But the iPad is still stealing sales away from netbooks and laptops on the other end and operating in markets that the Amazon tablet will never be in. The markets for each overlap, but don't directly compete.
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post #74 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodude View Post

It's a loss leader. Unlike Apple though, Amazon sell just about everything and shipping it with Prime is a good move as it should boost their sales.

Although the initial market reaction is positive, markets over time will demand a higher profit margin. It does not like loss leaders.

If the BOM is $180 and they're selling it for $199, even allowing for the piggyback products, they're barely breaking even.

The real rub will be the pricing on the 10-inch version.
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post #75 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

Yes, and I stand corrected by Tallest Skil, iPhone is 3:2 not 4:3. So its screen areas are:

iPhone (3:2): ~6 sq in
Fire (assuming it's 16:9): ~15.6 sq in
iPad (4:3): 48 sq in

So this definitely proves that big things are bigger than small things.

Apology. I thought you said
A 7" 16:9 display has nearly twice the 4:3 screen area of the iPad.

Damn.. my eye sight. (I think 4:3 fooled me.)

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post #76 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

...
AGAIN you people ignore the fundamental differences here.

I think you are making a flawed argument, if I can guess what it is. My guess is your logic is that the current iPad UI would not work as well on a 7" screen. No argument there.

But that doesn't mean it's impossible to have a usable UI on a 7" screen, anymore than it means that a 27" iMac is 5 times 'better' than an iPad.
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post #77 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:40am
I think this is more of a hit to iTunes than to the iPad.

I like to get movies from iTunes onto my iPad. but the price of admission is pretty steep.
$499 for the tablet plus the cost of the movie rental.

If i only wanted a media device, this would be the way to go.
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post #78 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:40am
This could easily be good news for Apple.

1) it has killed the Tablet market for Android. Google may as well forget 2.3, 3.0, or anything else. If this tablet dominates the Android market, then whatever Google does is irrelevant unless Amazon decided to use it. If the AMazon tablet sticks with 2.2 and modifications, then Google can give up on all other versions, while iOS evolves.
2) Apple can learn from Amazon taking a hit on non-essential parts on their business.

If amazon is taking a hit of say $50 per device here, then it needs to sell that much over the lifetime of the device. Thats a big ask, but lets say it is possible. While APple do need to reduce prices on the lower end iPad ( possibly compensated by a higher priced Retina display version) it can take a hint from Amazon.

Amazon makes money from content, mostly so can sell hardware at a loss.
Apple makes money from hardware mostly, so can sell content at a loss.

By which I mean host the bookstore for free, or take a mere 5%. Let publishers choose their price. Try and undercut Amazon everywhere. Then continue to make money on the iPads.

the BookStore isnt as good as kindle, it could be. Make it cheaper.
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post #79 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:40am
So yet another Amazon device released that will never have it's actual sales figures shared w/the public?
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post #80 of 303
9/28/11 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Amazon on Wednesday unveiled its new Kindle Fire touchscreen tablet, an Android-powered device with a 7-inch display that will sell for just $199, or less than half of Apple's entry-level $499 iPad.

... when it arrives in 2012. The company is also said to be preparing an 8.9-inch device for release in the second half of 2012.

Amazon/Bezos is smart, he knows he doesn't stand a chance to beat 100.000s of Apps, a lifestyle already established or the "coveting"/me too factor (people wanting friend's toys they experimented with). It's an incredible and insurmountable advantage Apple has over anyone else: 100.000s of Apps and millions of devices floating in users hands. It's like there are millions of sales-people showing off the iPad to their friends and family. And no one wants a device like this just to read books or surf the net - people want it for the Apps.

So in real life - not in anal.ysts headlines - the iPad has a lead of years over everyone else. Bezos knows this. So he comes up with a realistic alternative/complement model. He actually feeds off of the HP Touchpad fire sale experience (hence the name Fire?!) and knows the target price that is possible.

This thing is designed to not make a profit, rather drive sales for Amazon. It's an Amazon.com sales device more than a Tablet with an ecosystem. I mean, there are people who hang up in shopping malls but that's a whole different game.

Its success will be to complement the iPad and go where it doesn't go (price).

Apple once did niche market, Amazon has nothing to lose on this. Bezos shows he's a great entrepreneur. But what else but realistic could he be?

PS: a shopping mall is NOT an ecosystem. Integration. Experience.
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