Originally Posted by Apple ][
Yes, he was eliminated without a trial. I believe that no trail was necessary, as it wasn't possible and his guilt was already established.
By whom? Can you prove that Awliki has murdered people? What crimes had Awliki committed specifically against the United States? Guilt, in a civilized society, is established via trial. For "designated enemy combatants", military tribunals
have been the practice for the last 10 years. Are these kangaroo courts with preordained verdicts not quite good enough for you? Are you quoting 2nd hand sources, self appointed "experts" in the field of foreign intelligence, and a buttload of baseless propaganda? US Central Intelligence doesn't exactly have the greatest record of justice (!!), and the last two administrations have lied about almost everything....
Awliki was the terrorist who appeared in many Al-Qaeda propaganda videos,
And so did "Osama bin Laden". And every single one of those videos were proven fakes. Appearing in a video is not a crime, just for your information.
the burden of proof has been met and it was correct to take him out.
Proof of guilt is what is established in a *trial*.
I also believe that different rules apply in war situations.
So, if the US is at war with this particular group of people, then not only do we have the right to take them out, but they have the equal right to take us out too. That is what war is all about....
War is about killing the enemy.
See above. If they regard the US as the enemy, then you are correct.
I don't believe that wars should be fought in court. I am in favor of killing people, as that is the most effective and logical way to fight and win wars.
And it is likely that said sentiment is echoed within the enemy camp...
I would disagree that 'anyone' can be taken out at the pleasure of the State Department or Executive branch.
Of course they can...and it has happened on many occasions in the past.
If somebody is a proven Al-Qaeda leader, then yeah, there is a certain chance that they will be taken out by a drone strike or other means.
If someone is a bona fide
(al Qaeda) leader, then the prudent thing to do, ie what any intelligence agency worth their salt should be doing, is using their training and paramilitary skills to get these bozos in custody. Then with the careful use of interrogation methods, treating the prisoner in a humanitarian way will yield a goldmine of information, if the party is guilty. That is how to bust terrorist groups and crime gangs...torture doesn't cut it, despite what psychopath in chief Dick Cheney claims. Wading in with drones and hellfire missiles may be satisfying to testosterone-addled macho boys, but it will destroy vital evidence and intel, and only seek to enrage the the locals, thus making a bad situation worse, and undoubtedly prolonging the conflict, while doubling as an effective recruitment campaign for more potential young militants. Also, to do the job properly, blaring news like " woohooo, we took out al Qaeda's #1" etc etc all over the media is counterproductive beyond all bounds.
There is no doubt about the terrorists guilt in this instance.
So you keep saying.
I believe that anybody making a claim that any random American can be taken out by the government is being extremely paranoid.
Well, Obama has set a precedent. What is to stop members of his administration authorizing the military to take out other people who have not been charged with a crime? How do you know that this is not already happening? Central Intelligence (and other state funded paramilitaries, or mercenaries) have been assassinating people for decades who have never
been involved with terrorist activity... including elected heads of state. Learn some history.
I would disagree with that too. I don't think that it matters if the guy's name was 'Mickey Mouse'. If somebody advertises themselves as part of Al-Qaeda, and they are waging war against the US, then they should be taken out by any means necessary.
Finally, perhaps you should do a little bit of research on how al Qaeda started, what it morphed into, and what it is now. At present, anyone who is a member of any Islamic militant group can be designated a "member of al Qaeda", regardless of whether that group or person has any designs against the United States. In fact, the huge majority of mid-east based militants are far more concerned with local issues..... the US, as far as many of these people are concerned, may just as well be on Mars.
Incidentally, for your perusal:
The website that was quoted in the media reports, (but the URL no included) happens to be:www.aljahad.com
If aljahad.com is "an al Qaeda website", in which real terrorists/terrorist sympathizers post messages on the web, where their IP addresses are very easily traceable by US and international authorities, then someone is either not doing their work, or this whole al Qaeda business is not what is being sold to us, or the act of harboring, aiding and abetting international terrorism is not taken as seriously by the authorities as the authorities would prefer us to believe.
The domain aljahad.com is hosted by www.Nocster.com
, its IP Address: is: 220.127.116.11, and whoever updates the site... (a member of "al Qaeda"?!!), or at least someone "sympathetic to the cause", if this is genuine.. would obviously have to provide a billing address, and other traceable forms of ID.
Nocster is a private company HQ'd in Scranton, PA, Los Angeles CA and Manchester UK. www.aljahad.com
was last updated September 30, 2011. Have any Nocster.net corporate officials been questioned yet over hosting a website which "is affiliated with" al Qaeda:"? Or do you feel that this "harboring of terrorists" part of al Qaeda's media campaign should not be investigated?
As of one minute ago, servers hosting this website are still up and running. A US based corporation is still getting away with aiding and abetting terrorism. A couple of drone strikes would take care of that little problem?