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Occupy Wall Street: The Real American Revolution. (NOT Koch funded) - Page 5

post #161 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The point you seem to be missing is there's a clear reason you would never become a head of state. At least not in this country. I'm sure the point is lost on you however.

Being a politician is not one of my ambitions, but you're right. I probably wouldn't make for a very good liar or a diplomatic person, as I prefer to tell it like I see it, regardless of who might feel offended by what I believe.

I also don't have any terrorists which I can count as friends and I also didn't attend a racist, hate filled church for decades, so I am no doubt missing some vital qualifications. I am also smarter than the person currently in the Whitehouse, and that is probably not a good sign when it comes to winning the support of millions of ignorant Americans. I wouldn't want any liberals to vote for me if I were running for President. As a matter of fact, I would probably do everything I could to make them not vote for me and to not like me, so the thought of me ever becoming a head of state is not something that I have ever even remotely considered or thought about.
post #162 of 597
You are also fifteen.
post #163 of 597
This is really snowballing. I think it's a much more serious situation than most people think.

The latest populist movement shows no signs of stopping. It has gone massively global and is expanding all around the world.

This may be the biggest paradigm shift since the fall of the Soviet Union.

It WILL continue to grow in the US, and it WILL affect the election in 2012. Regulation will happen as a result. The people may be too lazy to get up off their ass and vote, and too stupid to vote against the fuckers responsible for this mess and who would continue policies that contribute to it, but they will affect change in a new, unexpected way.

This is the seed of revolution.
post #164 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

This is really snowballing. I think it's a much more serious situation than most people think.

The latest populist movement shows no signs of stopping. It has gone massively global and is expanding all around the world.

This may be the biggest paradigm shift since the fall of the Soviet Union.

It WILL continue to grow in the US, and it WILL affect the election in 2012. Regulation will happen as a result. The people may be too lazy to get up off their ass and vote, and too stupid to vote against the fuckers responsible for this mess and who would continue policies that contribute to it, but they will affect change in a new, unexpected way.

Yes, this is massively exciting.

There’s been a weird convulsion against unpopular systems this year. It’s great that it’s our turn in the west to convulse.

I don't know where it'll end, but at the very least the debate over inequality, and the anger of tax payers forced to pay for the mistakes and greed of the banks, now has the focus it needed.

It’s framed the debate in a very interesting way.

Are all these protestors all over the world right to be angry? Clearly, yes… unless you think that the people who caused this economic crisis—basically the financial corporations that have our governments by the balls—are OK. In which case you’re clearly on the wrong side.

It's interesting to compare the 99% stuff to the Tea Party, which remains restricted to one country.

The Tea Party, and many right wing Americans, say that Obama is a Marxist and that taxes are confiscation. That kind of weird rhetoric is going to appear increasingly absurd, but as it's really only concerned with domestic American politics anyway, it's irrelevant to basically everyone else.

Everyone else in the rest of the world, living in reality, is actually aiming at the right targets—a system in which banks cause a crisis, we pay for the mistakes and the very rich don’t feel any of the pain of austerity at all.

Which is why one movement is popular and globally relevant and the other isn’t.

Whatever happens, the debate's changing quite fundamentally.
post #165 of 597
You and tonton said it quite well already. I'll just echo my excitement. I truly have some real hope for the first time in a while.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #166 of 597
Thread Starter 
Back to my "revolutionary" keyboard. This from the 1st March 2011-

"Mervyn King has risked reopening the bitter argument over blame for the financial crisis by saying that government spending cuts are the fault of the City and expressing surprise there has not been more public anger.

The governor of the Bank of England said that people made unemployed and businesses bankrupted during the crisis had every reason to be resentful and voice their protest. He told the Treasury select committee that the billions spent bailing out the banks and the need for public spending cuts were the fault of the financial services sector.

"The price of this financial crisis is being borne by people who absolutely did not cause it," he said. "Now is the period when the cost is being paid, I'm surprised that the degree of public anger has not been greater than it has."

King has repeatedly pointed the finger at the City since the crisis erupted in 2007, but this was the first time he blamed bankers for the coalition's spending cuts.

It became clear during the hearing that King and his fellow members of the Bank's monetary policy committee, which sets interest rates, believe the crisis will have a lasting impact on the economy.

Asked when living standards enjoyed before the crisis would return, King said: "The research makes it clear that the impact of these crises lasts for many years. It is not like an ordinary recession, where you lose output and get it back quickly. We may not get the lost output back for very many years, if ever.""
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...mes-banks-cuts
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #167 of 597
What does the American Nazi party, the Communist Party USA and President Obama all share in common? They all fully support the criminals and losers of OWS.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011...reet-movement/

Obama is going to lose the next election.
post #168 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

What does the American Nazi party, the Communist Party USA and President Obama all share in common? They all fully support the criminals and losers of OWS.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011...reet-movement/

Obama is going to lose the next election.

And the KKK officially endorsed George W. Bush. What's your point?
post #169 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

What does the American Nazi party, the Communist Party USA and President Obama all share in common? They all fully support the criminals and losers of OWS.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011...reet-movement/

Obama is going to lose the next election.

So do a solid majority of the American people. Something like 54% according to Time. They are Nazis and Communists too? Why do you hate Americans?

54%. Which is apparently twice as many people as support the Tea Party.

You rhetoric is despicable, and absurd, and increasingly transparent.
post #170 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

So do a solid majority of the American people. Something like 54% according to Time. They are Nazis and Communists too? Why do you hate Americans?

54%. Which is apparently twice as many people as support the Tea Party.

You rhetoric is despicable, and absurd, and increasingly transparent.

That poll is crap. They don't even name the group nor any of the goals. Almost everyone will support their right to protest because they support their right to free speech. State an actual goal or objective of the group (if they can even figure it out themselves) and see how it polls. Poll as examples whether government ought to live within it's means and then poll one of the demands like say, open borders and see which does better. The emerging OWS agenda would get killed in the polls and will at the ballot box as well.

Speaking of polls and support, Obama is -20 in favorability and -7 to a generic Republican candidate.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #171 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

That poll is crap. They don't even name the group nor any of the goals.

Oh look. Trumptman didn't read the questions and is making shit up.

Quote:
Q11. IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, A GROUP OF PROTESTORS HAS BEEN GATHERING ON WALL STREET IN NEW YORK CITY AND SOME OTHER CITIES TO PROTEST POLICIES WHICH THEY SAY FAVOR THE RICH, THE GOVERNMENT’S BANK BAILOUT, AND THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM. IS YOUR OPINION OF THESE PROTESTS VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE PROTESTS TO HAVE AN OPINION?

VERY FAVORABLE 25%

SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE 29%

SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE 10%

VERY UNFAVORABLE 13%

DON’T KNOW ENOUGH 23%

NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 1%
post #172 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Oh look. Trumptman didn't read the questions and is making shit up.

Par for the course, unfortunately, not just for Trumpy, but for the entire Conservative mindset. Would you expect anything else?

Now, the question is, will Trumptman own up to his mistake and admit he was wrong? I'll buy him a drink in December when I'm in San Diego if he does, but I'm not
counting on it.
post #173 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Oh look. Trumptman didn't read the questions and is making shit up.

I did read it. You are the one making things up. I said they didn't name the group. The group is called OccupyWallSt.

They called it A GROUP OF PROTESTORS HAS BEEN GATHERING ON WALL STREET IN NEW YORK CITY AND SOME OTHER CITIES TO PROTEST POLICIES.

I stated they did not name any goals for the group. The question states...TO PROTEST POLICIES WHICH THEY SAY FAVOR THE RICH, THE GOVERNMENTS BANK BAILOUT, AND THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM.

A protest isn't a goal. A protest is a protest. A goal would be, and they want a sur-tax to pay back monies used for a bailout. They want the top rate raised to X. They want X companies to commit to Y jobs.

You know I make jokes about you guys not being able to tell the difference between intentions and actions but you don't have to work so hard to prove the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Par for the course, unfortunately, not just for Trumpy, but for the entire Conservative mindset. Would you expect anything else?

Now, the question is, will Trumptman own up to his mistake and admit he was wrong? I'll buy him a drink in December when I'm in San Diego if he does, but I'm not
counting on it.

If I'm buying gas down to there, you're buying the first round regardless.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #174 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I did read it. You are the one making things up. I said they didn't name the group. The group is called OccupyWallSt.

They called it A GROUP OF PROTESTORS HAS BEEN GATHERING ON WALL STREET IN NEW YORK CITY AND SOME OTHER CITIES TO PROTEST POLICIES.

I stated they did not name any goals for the group. The question states...TO PROTEST POLICIES WHICH THEY SAY FAVOR THE RICH, THE GOVERNMENT’S BANK BAILOUT, AND THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM.

A protest isn't a goal. A protest is a protest. A goal would be, and they want a sur-tax to pay back monies used for a bailout. They want the top rate raised to X. They want X companies to commit to Y jobs.

You know I make jokes about you guys not being able to tell the difference between intentions and actions but you don't have to work so hard to prove the point.



If I'm buying gas down to there, you're buying the first round regardless.

No, trumptman, you are doing your semantic bullshit thing again, because you have been found out.

occupywallst.org is a web address. It is not the name of the organisation. The organisation does not really have a name. Does it.

But it has a website, and you have cited the address of the website, and that's that.

Protest is a goal. If you meet with the aim of expressing discontent, 'protesting', if you like, then that is your goal. And that is what they are doing.

It is very simple. And you have been caught out, and now you are doing your win-at-all-costs semantic farting, trying to clear the room, as you always do, to the great frustration of everyone.
post #175 of 597

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #176 of 597
Occupy the Federal Reseve.

People saw this quagmire coming way back in 1912.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #177 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


Yes, exactly.

Corporations own the government, and we need to make reforms that prevent this state of affairs, and we do that by enacting legislation.

This cartoon's not very good satire.
post #178 of 597
Legislation enacted by a bought government is the solution? Really?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #179 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Legislation enacted by a bought government is the solution? Really?

I don't understand why you find the idea so difficult, jazzguru.

If we put enough pressure on them (and hopefully these protests will eventually lead to that) the people we elect will be forced to act.

Things are complicated in America by this 'corporations are people too' rule that Republicans recently enacted, meaning these corporations in question can spend as much as they like on the candidates they want.

But if there's enough popular outrage, the political culture can be reformed and candidates with principles can be elected despite this, and legislation can be passed.

I really wish the people occupying Wall Street the best of success in this aim, and hope that the outrage continues to grow until real change can be effected.
post #180 of 597
The answer is not more legislation, Mumbo. The answer is to repeal the legislation that led to this mess in the first place.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #181 of 597
Trumpman is 100% correct. That poll is complete bullshit, filled with loaded questions designed to skew the results in a particular direction. A crooked pollster can make Nazis look good, if that was their intention.

The liberals at Time Magazine apparently went to the Kim Jung Il school of polling and it shows.
post #182 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The answer is not more legislation, Mumbo. The answer is to repeal the legislation that led to this mess in the first place.

*Citation needed.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #183 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

What, no nuclear bomb?

So when do we send in the tanks?

Remind you of anything?



Honestly, Apple ][, your perspective is the exact opposite of what makes America good. If you were a Muslim, most other Muslims would hate you, but you'd fit right in with Al Qaeda. If Westboro Baptist were holding signs that said, 'God hates Liberals' instead of 'God hates fags', you'd be riht there with them protesting at funerals.

He's a little over the top, but then again...so are you.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #184 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Trumpman is 100% correct. That poll is complete bullshit, filled with loaded questions designed to skew the results in a particular direction. A crooked pollster can make Nazis look good, if that was their intention.

The liberals at Time Magazine apparently went to the Kim Jung Il school of polling and it shows.

No, it isn't. You sound absurd.

But look, dudeyou keep defending those banks. You keep fighting the American people in their bid to end corruption.

Im sure in Egypt there were many people on internet forums defending Mubarak. Like you, they were on the wrong side. Youre definitely going to lose.
post #185 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, trumptman, you are doing your semantic bullshit thing again, because you have been found out.

You mean that semantic bullshit where words have meaning instead of just making up nonsense like you do?

Quote:
occupywallst.org is a web address. It is not the name of the organisation. The organisation does not really have a name. Does it.

So you are saying it doesn't have a name and simultaneously declaring I am a liar when I say the poll question doesn't name the group. That is quite a bit of mental gymnastics there on your part. How do you keep your head from exploding.

Quote:
But it has a website, and you have cited the address of the website, and that's that.

All major news organization, including Time.com have been referring to it as Occupy Wall Street. The hashtags from Twitter have been doing the same. Explain to me why the poll cited by you, can have two articles calling it that but won't call it that in their own poll.

Time 1

Time 2

Adbusters is the site that started the actual protest. What do they call it? Occupy Wall Street.


You're talking out your ass.

Quote:
Protest is a goal. If you meet with the aim of expressing discontent, 'protesting', if you like, then that is your goal. And that is what they are doing.

You're a sad man just making up nonsense now. The goal of protesting the death penalty isn't abolition of the death penalty, it is just the protest. It's all so clear now. The protest of war isn't ending of that war or peace, it is merely the protest itself that is the goal.
Quote:
It is very simple. And you have been caught out, and now you are doing your win-at-all-costs semantic farting, trying to clear the room, as you always do, to the great frustration of everyone.

Someone has indeed been caught and it is you. Now you can go start to lose your mind again or perhaps you've learned to just be tolerable and not go apeshit when caught in such bad reasoning. Eitherway the poll is crap and reflects different practices from the rest of the same news organization and you nor anyone else will be able to explain away those differences. You'll scream, yell and try to muddy the waters but that is all you can do because that is all that can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

I don't understand why you find the idea so difficult, jazzguru.

If we put enough pressure on them (and hopefully these protests will eventually lead to that) the people we elect will be forced to act.

Things are complicated in America by this 'corporations are people too' rule that Republicans recently enacted, meaning these corporations in question can spend as much as they like on the candidates they want.

So you're down to just making stuff up now. Corporations are people too rule... please link to this. I'd love to see you try. Go ahead and find me this recently enacted legislation.

Quote:
But if there's enough popular outrage, the political culture can be reformed and candidates with principles can be elected despite this, and legislation can be passed.

The popular outrage can reform the political culture by not going to the place of the political culture and asking it to reform or throwing out the crooked politicians and replacing them with others, but instead going to the place of the supposed corruption and applying no pressure on the politicians that must deal with it. Please name for me another political protest that has worked in this manner. Name one that didn't pressure politicians at all.
Quote:
I really wish the people occupying Wall Street the best of success in this aim, and hope that the outrage continues to grow until real change can be effected.

By change you mean a nameless group with an objective that is protesting but not for a clear cause will not put pressure on politicians by going to Washington DC and instead will sort of hang out and grab free goodies and charge tourists to take their pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Trumpman is 100% correct. That poll is complete bullshit, filled with loaded questions designed to skew the results in a particular direction. A crooked pollster can make Nazis look good, if that was their intention.

The liberals at Time Magazine apparently went to the Kim Jung Il school of polling and it shows.

It goes much further than that. This isn't even a real movement. It is the same perma-protesters standing in the same place. They clearly have goals and they are outlandish but the media won't report on them or even really attempt to show or name the size of the crowds or anything like that. They are purposefully leaving it nebulous and vague.

I'll make a prediction here and now. This is going no where. It will be revealed as a desperate and false attempt by the left to try to ignite some sort of enthusiasm within their base before these upcoming 2012 elections where they are going to be destroyed. It is pretty clear the Senate will be taken back by Republicans and also clear that Obama is going to lose and lose badly.

A group that believes government is the answer is unwilling to go protest to the government to make change because they would point out the incompetence of their own leaders. It is a logical absurdity that cannot be maintained and won't go anywhere. Website likes Big Government have already been digging into the identity of certain protesters and showing how they are paid activists, former or current ACORN workers, etc. This is the last gasp of the left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, it isn't. You sound absurd.

But look, dudeyou keep defending those banks. You keep fighting the American people in their bid to end corruption.

Im sure in Egypt there were many people on internet forums defending Mubarak. Like you, they were on the wrong side. Youre definitely going to lose.

Corporations like Apple have profits to put to work. They won't when they don't know if they can get electricity, if they are suddenly going to have the costs per employee triple, they don't know if their product is going to be carbon taxed out of existence or be the butt of some Luddite type rant from a crazy leftist politician. Here is what could happen and here is why you are going to lose your mind.

First the bubbles within the real estate sector are going. As an example homes in So Cal and Vegas and other areas that were $400k+ are now a very moderate $150-200k again. Businesses are ready to invest. People will work when they stop getting a million weeks of unemployment. The Republicans are going to come in and clear out the uncertainty and the economy will take off. The timing of it will fully discredit Democrats for a generation and they will become regional and minor party. This could even happen while the Euro is sinking making the U.S. an investment safe haven as one of the only locations where money can be safely parked and invested. China is ready to become Japan. It has a dozen economic danger signs and like all Asian tigers when the damage is unleashed, it will be ugly. There have been articles about entire speculative blocks of cities having been built with no one living there and mortgages having been purchased with the entire savings of groups of families. It will be ugly.

Presuming we don't pick a RINO and can buckle down enough with regard to true conservatism, we will come out smelling like a rose.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #186 of 597
My irony-meter just EXPLODED!

Quote:
Its a den of thieves!

Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.

Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment, said Nan Terrie, 18, a kitchen and legal-team volunteer from Fort Lauderdale.

I had my Mac stolen -- that was like $5,500. Every night, something else is gone. Last night, our entire [kitchen] budget for the day was stolen, so the first thing I had to do was . . . get the message out to our supporters that we needed food!

Crafty cat burglars sneaked into the makeshift kitchen at Zuccotti Park overnight and swiped as much as $2,500 in donated greenbacks from right under the noses of volunteers whod fallen asleep after a long day whipping up meals for the hundreds of hungry protesters, the volunteers said.

The worst thing is theres people sleeping in the kitchen when they come, and they dont even know about it! There are some really smart and sneaky thieves here, Terrie said.

I had umbrellas stolen, a fold-up bed I brought because my back is bad -- they took that, too!

Poor Nan, her bad back might have to sleep in the ground in the park now. Don't feel too bad though Nan. Those thieves just took what they needed and took it because you had more than they did. They were just equalizing the wealth.
Quote:

Security volunteer Harry Wyman, 22, of Brooklyn was furious about the thievery -- and vowed to get tough with the predatory perps.

Im not getting paid, but Im not gonna stand for it. Why people got to come here and do stupid stuff? All it does is make people not wanna come here anymore, Wyman fumed.

At one point yesterday, Wyman and other volunteers briefly scuffled with a man who was standing near a park entrance with a pail calling out: Donations! Donations! -- and pocketing the cash people tossed in the bucket.

Don't worry Harry, the group won't dock your pay or fire you.

These people are sounding pretty grouchy. All these other folks taking from them are just trying to survive and get theirs right?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #187 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You mean that semantic bullshit where words have meaning instead of just making up nonsense like you do?



So you are saying it doesn't have a name and simultaneously declaring I am a liar when I say the poll question doesn't name the group. That is quite a bit of mental gymnastics there on your part. How do you keep your head from exploding.



All major news organization, including Time.com have been referring to it as Occupy Wall Street. The hashtags from Twitter have been doing the same. Explain to me why the poll cited by you, can have two articles calling it that but won't call it that in their own poll.

Time 1

Time 2

Adbusters is the site that started the actual protest. What do they call it? Occupy Wall Street.


You're talking out your ass.



You're a sad man just making up nonsense now. The goal of protesting the death penalty isn't abolition of the death penalty, it is just the protest. It's all so clear now. The protest of war isn't ending of that war or peace, it is merely the protest itself that is the goal.


Someone has indeed been caught and it is you. Now you can go start to lose your mind again or perhaps you've learned to just be tolerable and not go apeshit when caught in such bad reasoning. Eitherway the poll is crap and reflects different practices from the rest of the same news organization and you nor anyone else will be able to explain away those differences. You'll scream, yell and try to muddy the waters but that is all you can do because that is all that can be done.



So you're down to just making stuff up now. Corporations are people too rule... please link to this. I'd love to see you try. Go ahead and find me this recently enacted legislation.



The popular outrage can reform the political culture by not going to the place of the political culture and asking it to reform or throwing out the crooked politicians and replacing them with others, but instead going to the place of the supposed corruption and applying no pressure on the politicians that must deal with it. Please name for me another political protest that has worked in this manner. Name one that didn't pressure politicians at all.


By change you mean a nameless group with an objective that is protesting but not for a clear cause will not put pressure on politicians by going to Washington DC and instead will sort of hang out and grab free goodies and charge tourists to take their pictures.



It goes much further than that. This isn't even a real movement. It is the same perma-protesters standing in the same place. They clearly have goals and they are outlandish but the media won't report on them or even really attempt to show or name the size of the crowds or anything like that. They are purposefully leaving it nebulous and vague.

I'll make a prediction here and now. This is going no where. It will be revealed as a desperate and false attempt by the left to try to ignite some sort of enthusiasm within their base before these upcoming 2012 elections where they are going to be destroyed. It is pretty clear the Senate will be taken back by Republicans and also clear that Obama is going to lose and lose badly.

A group that believes government is the answer is unwilling to go protest to the government to make change because they would point out the incompetence of their own leaders. It is a logical absurdity that cannot be maintained and won't go anywhere. Website likes Big Government have already been digging into the identity of certain protesters and showing how they are paid activists, former or current ACORN workers, etc. This is the last gasp of the left.



Corporations like Apple have profits to put to work. They won't when they don't know if they can get electricity, if they are suddenly going to have the costs per employee triple, they don't know if their product is going to be carbon taxed out of existence or be the butt of some Luddite type rant from a crazy leftist politician. Here is what could happen and here is why you are going to lose your mind.

First the bubbles within the real estate sector are going. As an example homes in So Cal and Vegas and other areas that were $400k+ are now a very moderate $150-200k again. Businesses are ready to invest. People will work when they stop getting a million weeks of unemployment. The Republicans are going to come in and clear out the uncertainty and the economy will take off. The timing of it will fully discredit Democrats for a generation and they will become regional and minor party. This could even happen while the Euro is sinking making the U.S. an investment safe haven as one of the only locations where money can be safely parked and invested. China is ready to become Japan. It has a dozen economic danger signs and like all Asian tigers when the damage is unleashed, it will be ugly. There have been articles about entire speculative blocks of cities having been built with no one living there and mortgages having been purchased with the entire savings of groups of families. It will be ugly.

Presuming we don't pick a RINO and can buckle down enough with regard to true conservatism, we will come out smelling like a rose.

Didn't read any of that, trumptman. Not a word.

Can't be bothered. x
post #188 of 597
Something has gotten lost or confused in the messaging coming out of Occupy Wall St., (probably on account of the complexity and number of issues being addressed). People, especially in the mainstream media, are quick to over-simplify Occupy's gripes, and they point the finger towards "corporations", as if all corporations are to blame - an absurd allegation - while at the same time aware that the huge majority of corporations are small businesses, many of which are having a rough time, and have had no part in contributing to America's economic and financial woes.

There are TWO corporate Americas running side by side.

(A) The millions of small to medium size companies and sole proprietorships, doing real business, providing goods and services, competing in an open market... ie practicing free-enterprise driven capitalism.

(B) A relatively small number of businesses of dinosaur proportions and methods - for example the giant defense contractors - which have the ability to engineer marginally legal schemes in order to evade taxes, and exist primarily through massive injections of tax payer funded government provided corporate socialism, corporate welfare and government contracts at home and overseas. The banking conglomerates that employ usury, extortion and fraudulent foreclosure practices.... to make huge profits. The oil companies and big utilities... remember the California energy scam of 1999, and the gas price manipulations of 2008 and 2010? The big media giants which have become government lapdogs. The parasitic Wall St. speculators who make $billions by moving money around, manufacturing absolutely nothing while causing currency devaluation and inflation, enriching themselves via privileged, insider information.

That is corporatism and crony capitalism, it's rife with corruption and crime... because it is allowed to be. (ie the base elements of human nature at work).

It might seem srange, but there may be some folk in here who support crony corporatism over free enterprise. Which version of corporate America does the reader support?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #189 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, it isn't. You sound absurd.

But look, dudeyou keep defending those banks. You keep fighting the American people in their bid to end corruption.

Im sure in Egypt there were many people on internet forums defending Mubarak. Like you, they were on the wrong side. Youre definitely going to lose.

I've never once written any statement here in support of any Banks. What I have done is written many statements attacking the protesters and thugs that are a part of OWS.
post #190 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


I'll make a prediction here and now. This is going no where. It will be revealed as a desperate and false attempt by the left to try to ignite some sort of enthusiasm within their base before these upcoming 2012 elections where they are going to be destroyed. It is pretty clear the Senate will be taken back by Republicans and also clear that Obama is going to lose and lose badly.

I agree with you on that. It is no wonder that Obama supports the protesters. The protesters, as I have stated before, are merely Obama supporters and the Democrats are supporting the bums and protesters, hoping to reignite some enthusiasm for a failed Presidency and a dead end administration, because they know that the election is not that far off.

The protester bums and Obama will both lose badly.
post #191 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Poor Nan, her bad back might have to sleep in the ground in the park now. Don't feel too bad though Nan. Those thieves just took what they needed and took it because you had more than they did. They were just equalizing the wealth.

The protesters don't deserve to own any Macs, so it's just as well that it was stolen from them. Don't they believe in any wealth distribution? I bet that they do, just not when it comes from them.
post #192 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I've never once written any statement here in support of any Banks. What I have done is written many statements attacking the protesters and thugs that are a part of OWS.

Do you think these protesters are have a right to be angry, Apple ][?
post #193 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Do you think these protesters are have a right to be angry, Apple ][?

People have a right to be angry about whatever they want, as long as they protest in a legal fashion.

I also have a right to think that certain groups of people are morons and hypocrites and I do not have to support them. As a matter of fact, the OWS protesters are my enemies and I wish them nothing good. As soon as they get aggressive or start acting in a criminal way, then I fully support them getting beat down by the cops.
post #194 of 597
That wasn't what I asked you. Or maybe I wasn't clear. Let me ask again.

Do you think that the protestors on Wall Street are right to be angry with the way the banks contributed to the economic crisis we're experiencing?

Do you think that they are right to be angry with the level of influence that global financial corporations have on the economic policy of the American government?
post #195 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

That wasn't what I asked you. Or maybe I wasn't clear. Let me ask again.

Do you think that the protestors on Wall Street are right to be angry with the way the banks contributed to the economic crisis we're experiencing?

Do you think that they are right to be angry with the level of influence that global financial corporations have on the economic policy of the American government?

I already stated that people have a right to be angry about whatever they please to be angry about.

If you're asking me if I agree with their particular anger, then no, I do not.

The people protesting on Wall Street contributed to the economic crisis more so than other people, because they voted for Obama. And they will vote for him again, bringing yet further damage to the economy of the US. They are so dumb, that they are basically protesting for something that will make their situation even worse.

I don't really care if they are jobless, homeless or if they can't afford to feed their kids. That's not my problem, and their own stupidity is one of the primary causes of their situation.
post #196 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I already stated that people have a right to be angry about whatever they please to be angry about.

If you're asking me if I agree with their particular anger, then no, I do not.

The people protesting on Wall Street contributed to the economic crisis more so than other people, because they voted for Obama. And they will vote for him again, bringing yet further damage to the economy of the US. They are so dumb, that they are basically protesting for something that will make their situation even worse.

I don't really care if they are jobless, homeless or if they can't afford to feed their kids. That's not my problem, and their own stupidity is one of the primary causes of their situation.

No, you haven't answered my question. Again, maybe I should be clearer. I'll ask you as directly as I can.

Are you, personally, angry with the banks for their role in the economic crisis that we are experiencing?

Are you, personally, content with the level of influence that 'Wall Street' has on American economic policy?
post #197 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, you haven't answered my question. Again, maybe I should be clearer. I'll ask you as directly as I can.

Are you, personally, angry with the banks for their role in the economic crisis that we are experiencing?

Are you, personally, content with the level of influence that 'Wall Street' has on American economic policy?

No, I am personally not that angry over those two things. I feel that the anger is better directed at politicians who are giving away and wasting American tax dollars in bailouts and other money wasting schemes, such as Obamacare.

If anybody connected with the banks or Wall Street has done anything illegal, then prosecute them to the fullest and throw them in jail for a very long time . I have no problems with that.
post #198 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Do you think these protesters are have a right to be angry, Apple ][?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Do you think that the protestors on Wall Street are right to be angry with the way the banks contributed to the economic crisis we're experiencing?

Do you think that they are right to be angry with the level of influence that global financial corporations have on the economic policy of the American government?

Are you, personally, angry with the banks for their role in the economic crisis that we are experiencing?

Are you, personally, content with the level of influence that 'Wall Street' has on American economic policy?

Yes waiter, I'll have whatever he's having please. Here's the keys because I won't be able to drive afterwards.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #199 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

No, I am personally not that angry over those two things. I feel that the anger is better directed at politicians who are giving away and wasting American tax dollars in bailouts and other money wasting schemes, such as Obamacare.

If anybody connected with the banks or Wall Street has done anything illegal, then prosecute them to the fullest and throw them in jail for a very long time . I have no problems with that.

Ah, I see.

Just to clarify, though.

You dont blame the banks for taking risks with the savings of your fellow Americans? And not protecting savings from their speculation?

The bailouts they were all right with you? TARP?

The bonuses that the banks gave their executives with taxpayers money aftwerwardsyoure all right with that, as well?

May I askdo you work in a bank? (I'm joking.)
post #200 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Ah, I see.

Just to clarify, though.

You dont blame the banks for taking risks with the savings of your fellow Americans? And not protecting savings from their speculation?

The bailouts they were all right with you? TARP?

The bonuses that the banks gave their executives with taxpayers money aftwerwardsyoure all right with that, as well?

May I askdo you work in a bank? (I'm joking.)

So the GSE's have no responsibility and nothing to do with this?

Hey look over at this, another little bit of info no one will want to address.


Party leaderships embrace of protesters may cost them the 2012 election'

Quote:
The protesters have a distinct ideology and are bound by a deep commitment to radical left-wing policies. On Oct. 10 and 11, Arielle Alter Confino, a senior researcher at my polling firm, interviewed nearly 200 protesters in New York's Zuccotti Park. Our findings probably represent the first systematic random sample of Occupy Wall Street opinion.

Our research shows clearly that the movement doesn't represent unemployed America and is not ideologically diverse. Rather, it comprises an unrepresentative segment of the electorate that believes in radical redistribution of wealth, civil disobedience and, in some instances, violence. Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, virtually all (98%) say they would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and nearly one-third (31%) would support violence to advance their agenda.
The vast majority of demonstrators are actually employed, and the proportion of protesters unemployed (15%) is within single digits of the national unemployment rate (9.1%).

An overwhelming majority of demonstrators supported Barack Obama in 2008. Now 51% disapprove of the president while 44% approve, and only 48% say they will vote to re-elect him in 2012, while at least a quarter won't vote.

Fewer than one in three (32%) call themselves Democrats, while roughly the same proportion (33%) say they aren't represented by any political party.

..What binds a large majority of the protesters togetherregardless of age, socioeconomic status or educationis a deep commitment to left-wing policies: opposition to free-market capitalism and support for radical redistribution of wealth, intense regulation of the private sector, and protectionist policies to keep American jobs from going overseas.

Sixty-five percent say that government has a moral responsibility to guarantee all citizens access to affordable health care, a college education, and a secure retirementno matter the cost. By a large margin (77%-22%), they support raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans, but 58% oppose raising taxes for everybody, with only 36% in favor. And by a close margin, protesters are divided on whether the bank bailouts were necessary (49%) or unnecessary (51%).

Thus Occupy Wall Street is a group of engaged progressives who are disillusioned with the capitalist system and have a distinct activist orientation. Among the general public, by contrast, 41% of Americans self-identify as conservative, 36% as moderate, and only 21% as liberal. That's why the Obama-Pelosi embrace of the movement could prove catastrophic for their party.

Embrace a group that claims to speak for 99% when they speak for a sliver of 21% instead. Well that is the sort of thinking that loses elections.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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