Occupy Wall Street: The Real American Revolution. (NOT Koch funded) - Page 9

Denial is not just a river in De Egypt.

The starting salary for Sales Associate according to BR's link is $7 an hour. The average is $8.80. But believe what you want to believe. You will anyway.

No one ever claimed that Walmart never paid anyone, anywhere the minimum wage at any time ever. Also some of those entries clearly must be older since the federal minimum wage is above $7 an hour. I was going to fart around with the timeline feature but I don't care to register and apparently you hit the site like three times and it demands you register.

You seriously can't see the difference between Walmart pays some sales associates in some places minimum wage to start for a period of time and Walmart only pays all their sales associates minimum wage and nothing more ever because they can exploit them and get away with it. The latter is what you claimed. The former is what is true and I never claimed contrary to that.

Besides ranting, what is it you are aiming to show? So far all you've got is a few people, working the lowest level job happen to make the minimum wage for a brief period when they first enter the job. Since there are plenty of opportunities for advancement and since it is clear that the average is above minimum wage and you claimed it couldn't be, aside from ranting and being wrong, what is it you want to prove?

Healthcare should be a human right. Corporate greed prevents that. We are the 99%.

Absolutely not. Medical care costs money and somebody has to pay for it. It's no different than buying a new Mac or any other consumer product. If somebody can't afford it or chooses not to plan for it, then their lifespan will most likely be shorter than somebody who can. I am ok with these people dying, as it doesn't make economic sense to throw away money and pay for people who will never pay it back. It is a terrible investment and it's not smart.

It is anti-democratic and un-American to force people to provide medical services for freeloaders.

How about food, shelter and clothing?

Apple ][, I believe you just accurately defined the view of a despicable human being lacking the tiniest shred of compassion and decency. This is exactly what's wrong with the conservative point of view in America. You can't be pro-Life but anti-healthcare for all. You can't just fucking forget about the "sanctity of life" after it exits the womb.

Floorjack, absolutely.

Of course I can. People are responsible for their own decisions and choices in life.

Mmmhmm. Debilitating illnesses are always a choice. Accidents are always a choice. You're a fucking sociopath.

Last time I checked, that's what health insurance is for.

And I'm not a sociopath, I just don't like liberals and socialists. That doesn't make me a sociopath, that makes me informed and smart. But if you think that I'm a sociopath, then to be more precise, I would be a sociopath who at least has insurance.

Corporate greed prevented the government from qualifying him for ACCESS?

Corporate greed is why whether it be private health insurance paid for by an employer or public insurance paid for by the government, he has treatmented faster than the waiting lists, which were declared human rights violations in Canada?

The reality is that in Canada, this guy wouldn't have had a scar on his chest six weeks later. He'd have still been waiting to be treated after waiting a month to see a specialist assuming he could find a doctor to be his primary care provider in the first place.

His beef is that the government declared he had to be unemployed before the government would render help. That has nothing to do with big business. Government could choose to fix without altering health care for the rest of us while employed and receiving private insurance. While a nice picture and pretty platitudes might make you feel better, they don't make any logical sense and like most of the Occupy protesters, they are pointing their finger in the wrong direction. The government safety net was his problem.

And you think you're informed and smart?

I see the dance still continues here. Conservatives still have no sympathy for people and think all their ills are self inflicted.

I suppose it's easier to take that way.

Well people out there are angry and their target isn't Obama. It's the group that's been taking advantage of them for years ( the rich and the people who support their ability to live the good life on the backs of people who could benifit from the padding in their leather chairs ). Now you can try and argue against that but it's not going to stop them. What I'm truly afraid of is that all it will take is the proper spark ( like the police opening fire or something ) and you'll have real riots on your hands and it will simply be the haves against the have nots.

Now I do think some of their demands aren't totally reasonable my self ( like free college education for everyone how's that going to happen? ) but angry mobs usually aren't too logical. I'm afraid that if this is allowed to continue ( the situation not the protests ) things have a huge potential to get ugly. This isn't like the Tea Party that claim to want to take back our country. this is angry people who can clearly see what's been happening and are fed up and want their country to be a fair place to live again.

Are you claiming that the vast majority of ills in life aren't self-inflicted? Does every fat person just have big bones and bad genes? Is almost every person who didn't graduate from high school just conveniently earning much less than those who are better educated?

I fully support the situation getting ugly, as a matter of fact, I look forward to it. I also support the police using live rounds, if the situation calls for it. I don't care what happens to thugs and violent people who are looking for a fight.

It matters not how angry those bum protesters are. What they are doing isn't very democratic, and a group of angry bums making outrageous demands is not the way that civilized or intelligent people behave.

The majority of the idiot protesters voted for Obama, and now that they don't like what hope and change has brought them, they camp out on streets like a bunch of dirty bums. Most of them will probably vote for Obama next time too, and their situation will only get worse.

Bring on the riots. Liberals, socialists and hippies will always lose. They don't have the firepower, they don't have the strength and they don't have the law on their side.

You are clearly a young person that hasn't encountered the ills of age that will affect you no matter what you do because it's genetically predispositioned. You can only do things that make it less severe. You don't understand that now ( clearly from the statements you've made in the past on this subject ) but you will have something. Trust me. You're all of what 40 maybe? You probably think you know all about old age now. There's much more trust me. There are things that will be more than a matter of will and will be out of your control. I always said I would never be like my parents. But here I am with hypertension that I take a hand full of pills every day to control it. Even with diet they wouldn't all go away. The fact is that both my parents had it so it was just a matter of time. For me it didn't show up until I was 45. My blood pressure was always normal until then. My check ups were always boring to the doctor ( one even said once it was nice to examine someone with nothing wrong ). But here I am. I don't wish this on you but it's just a fact of life that you clearly don't understand yet. Look to your parents and grandparents for clues but there's always surprises also. And for these things to show up you don't have to be a drug user or fat or anything. All you have to be is the latest model in your line. And really it isn't restricted to old age. It can happen at any time. It's just that the older you are the chance of it showing up will increase. I'm just glad we live in an age that medicine can do so much more than it used to about it.

Good. Now you're out in the open and it's clear where you stand to everyone
here. So you would rather we be more like China and Russia and other totalitarian societies. Good we understand you now.

Well they can't shoot everyone and people who support that kind of solution don't get their policies continued. It's doomed to fail. Check out history if you don't believe me.

Good luck with your misunderstanding of how it all works.

No, you clearly don't understand at all. I don't support Communist totalitarian societies. Some of the OWS crowd does though.

You were the one who mentioned riots. People who riot are animals and I obviously support using force against these criminals. I'm on the side of innocent, hardworking Americans. I'm not on the side of animals who would riot, rape, loot and act like thugs. I support shooting these people, if they choose to riot. I am a strong believer in self defense.

I see you just advocate acting like them.


Tell me how do you know these people so well?

I'm 41 and I don't pretend to know about old age because I'm not old.


I'm going to disagree. I think most American attempts at "diet" and most American attempts to remain within a reasonable weight are pretty damn terrible. Measured with body fat percentage I'm on the high side of average right now (19%) and I'm among the most fit of my friends which says something very sad for them and not really anything good for me.


Obviously like all things in life, you make your luck and you roll the dice. I have a friend who had breast cancer even while being very fit and not really having any genetic predisposition. Much like how you can be a safe drive but still get killed by a DUI driver, outside and off-chance things can happen. However that doesn't mean it is a guarantee which is what you claim.

I understand that you do support totalitarian republics. Which are just as bad. Totalitarianism is bad. And you support it. Or you don't understand that military and law enforcement crackdowns are totalitarian, and that we have evolved past that in modern society.

You are probably ignoring the hordes of WalMart shoppers, who by their patronage of this institution of dubious character, contribute to Red China's relentless economic growth.


Where the police cease to protect and serve all the public, and instead become an instrument of violence to serve the terminally corrupt status quo, and the privileged, then they have ceased to be a legitimate police service.

The following quote has been seen going around a lot in recent weeks:
. Ominous. There is a lot of pressure building up, like a boiler with a broken valve. Street demonstrations are all very well and good, but if none of the demands are heard, let alone *addressed*, the issues will continue to fester, and get worse, and the boiler will inevitably explode. In other words... all hell's going to break loose, at some point. More than likely, the trigger for such violence will initiate from infiltrators outside of OWS.. and then its up to the machinations of mass human psychology to take their course....

Will large scale civil unrest, with shootings from both demonstrators and police, prompt public support for striking the 2nd Amendment from the Bill of Rights?

Yes, I do. That does not qualify as "abuse." In fact, that's what minimum wage is intended to prevent. It's not called a "comfortable wage" or a "work 40 hours a week and support a family wage." Also, many minimum wage workers are teenagers, part-time workers, retirees, etc. Many are not the primary income earner in the household.


First, I'm fairly sure Wal-Mart pays above minimum wage in most cases. But placing that aside, they pay that because they are hiring relatively unskilled and uneducated workers. Those are the kind of jobs that pay minimum wage. Apple pays more because it's hiring a much different worker. They are hiring a sales force and technicians and what have you...all higher-skilled and higher-paying jobs. Wal-Mart also likes to keep it's labor cost low so it can offer consumers lower prices, thereby increasing sales. Apple uses a different model.

All that said...there is no "abuse" going on. People enter into a social contract when working. They get certain pay for certain duties. If they don't like it, they leave.

The whole no social safety net thing and having to eat thing prevents people from just walking out on their shitty jobs because there are plenty of people in line to take the abuse to feed themselves or their families. What fucking planet do you live on?

I have had 3 people in the past few months leave mich higher than minimum wage jobs where I am at due to being dissatisfied with their job. The planet I live on, people do that. Not everyone, but not nobody either. There is a middle ground that you are ignoring.

Did I say it prevents everyone? No. Your wonderful anecdotes don't change the fact that without a true social safety net, corporations hold the vast majority of the cards in this type of job market.

They held all the cards in your opinion when unemployment was barely 4% nationally and these same folks were buying everything they could get their hands on living the sub-prime loca. The corporations were responsible for that too because they loaned them the money.

It's always the fault of someone else in your view. The weak, stupid and irresponsible rule the universe and we are all just the assholes who didn't give up our entire lives trying to fix them.

Neither do your strident claims make your position any stronger. Also, if you take the time to read my post, it does not say everyone. It goes out of its way to ensure that you don't think I meant everyone.

So your anecdote is pointless. Sure, some people have the financial reserves, nerves of steel, or plain idiocy to quit a job in this climate. That doesn't mean that the corporations don't have the power. Given that employers are now discriminating against the unemployed, it's even more dangerous to leave one's shitty job in search of mythical greener pastures.

What SDW said is just plain ridiculous. Your anecdotes are at best irrelevant and at worst intentional attempts to distract from the real problem. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former.

Why do you think the few anecdotes in your story want to exclude the unemployed from their employment searches?

GE - Y U NO Pay Tax???

GE not paying tax because of using every loophole they can stick their dick in? PFFT. The 1% of Greece roll different. They don't even have to declare their tax within any bounds of reality:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...#ixzz1btbUZdVk

One of the reasons they are so rich is that rather than paying millions in tax to the Greek state, as they rightfully should, many of these residents are living entirely tax-free.

Along street after street of opulent mansions and villas, surrounded by high walls and with their own pools, most of the millionaires living here are, officially, virtually paupers.

How so? Simple: they are allowed to state their own earnings for tax purposes, figures which are rarely challenged. And rich Greeks take full advantage.

Astonishingly, only 5,000 people in a country of 12 million admit to earning more than £90,000 a year — a salary that would not be enough to buy a garden shed in Kifissia.

Yet studies have shown that more than 60,000 Greek homes each have investments worth more than £1m, let alone unknown quantities in overseas banks, prompting one economist to describe Greece as a ‘poor country full of rich people’.

There are more Porsches in Greece than taxpayers declaring 50,000 euro incomes
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...-euro-incomes/

The American 1%? Amateurs compared to the Greek 1%.
Now *this* is how to bankrupt your own bloody country and get away scott free.

Let's not forget that many were "strongly encouraged" to loan the money by federal law and regulation.


Exactly. Sometimes I wonder how we got here, because BR is not the only person by far that thinks like this. When did we become a country where people are out in the streets protesting those that have more than they do? What happened to people starting at the rock bottom and working their way up through sheer determination, hard work and intelligence?


So they are slaves, then? By that definition, I am a slave to my employer. After all, I can't go find another one easily right now. Maybe I'll protest in the streets the next time I don't like something.


Employers always have some power. That's what working for someone else for money IS.


And what is the point there? What is the solution? The only way that changes is when employers need to expand. The only way that is going to happen is when the economy improves and the outlook becomes more stable.


It's ridiculous that I don't view workers entering into at-will contracts as slaves? It's ridiculous that I take issue the entitlement mentality? BR, yours is a progressive view that simply wasn't the foundation of this nation. We are not entitled to anything. If I want healthcare, I find a job that covers it. If I can't find that, I try to make enough money to buy coverage for catastrophic illness like the man in your photo developed.

Here's an anecdote: When I turned 23 I could no longer be covered under my parent's health insurance. I had not yet started working full-time. What did I do? I bought a minimal policy that covered hospitalization and major illnesses...just in case. It was less than $100 a month. Now, that policy would likely run $200 a month. It's not cheap, but it's do-able if someone works hard enough.

And that last part is key. This is about entitlement. There are scores of people that honestly believe they should live in some degree of comfort just because they work 40 hours a week. They believe they have right to retire. What happened to determination and self-reliance? What happened to working 2 or even 3 jobs to support one's self? Why is it my job to support you beyond short-term unemployment insurance?

Here's another anecdote: My great grandfather died on the job at 92 years old. Do you know why he was working at that age? Because he NEEDED THE MONEY. These are the people that built America. It's unfortunate we think so little of them today.

You know I want to add one more semi-rant and aside.

I've been on the other side of that "you wait it will happen to you" bit of reasoning for my entire life. All these fatalists have been declaring I will be them and have their reasoning someday since oh, well as long as I can remember.

When I first started teaching and the fat welfare moms would come in and throw a fit that they had to come to school and conference with me about their child failing it would come out, "Just you wait, someday you will have kids....."

I've had the kids and not only am I now less understanding of their position, I find it to be utter crap because I get off the couch, I check my kids homework, I read with them and I see the difference my action versus their indifference and fatalism makes.

The same thing with regard to employment. I've been told forever that I would see how it feels when I'm the unemployed one and then I'd really know what it is to look for a job. The problem is that I've never had trouble finding a job and never been unemployed. I show up and I'm smart, competent, and productive. The other point is I've always been willing to go to where the work needs to be done. When I wanted to get employed as a teacher the first time, I went to South Central Los Angeles. Why? That's where there were shortages. If I were unemployed right now, the family would be on the way to South Dakota where the unemployement rate is sub-3%.

I do the same now with Jimmac and his aging commentary. I already see huge differences between my health and others.

You know why employers don't want to hire most of these folks? It is because no one would want the type of employee who would sit passively on their ass and collect money for 99 weeks while doing nothing in return.

Yet. Keep laughing I started to notice differences when I became 45 and I'm not just talking about blood pressure. But may you have a comfortable uneventful old age. Some have that it's just not the norm. But I will warn you of one thing. It's never what you think it's going to be and this doesn't just come from me but many if not all of my friends.

I have no doubt that I'll age of course. Obviously one can age well with an active lifestyle or one can stick their own feet into the grave through choices. Almost all the top causes of death and disease are lifestyle related. The percentage of acquiring them is never zero but the risk doubles or triples based on choices. I've seen plenty of people who are already DONE as in they are physically in dramatic decline by 40.

I don't believe others should be forced, under threat of violence, to care for me or provide for me.

Are you ranting just for the sake of ranting? What does that have to do with my statement? Nobody is forcing my kids to drink coke, eat deep fried trans fats, or go into debt. Yet.

That's quite a lot to declare from those photos there Hand. However I know my own body fat percentage and I'll be happy to take you on my next half century to century mile ride.

One thing we should probably not be doing is commenting on any photos people have been open and kind enough to post.