Occupy Wall Street: The Real American Revolution. (NOT Koch funded) - Page 2

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

Originally Posted by SDW2001

First, it's not "my party." I'm not really a Tea Partier, though I like some of their agenda. Secondly, yes...some do want to shrink the MIC. This is why so many Tea Party-types and libertarians support someone like Ron Paul. Many disagree, however, that the MIC is what's limiting their freedom, which is why they are not calling for it to be shrunk.

Originally Posted by trumptman

Speaking of who people are and what they want, let's look at what the "occupiers" want.

Originally Posted by BR

Nice dodge. You don't vote Republican?

Originally Posted by FloorJack

What a hodgepodge of nonsense, huh?

Originally Posted by FloorJack

What a hodgepodge of nonsense, huh?

Yes, as so many journalists seem obligated to point out, kids are criticizing corporate America while tweeting through their iPhones. The simplistic critique is that if someone is upset about corporate excess, he is supposed to abandon all connection with any corporate product. Of course, the more nuanced approach to such tradeoffs would be to seek balance rather than ultimatums. Yes, there are things big corporations might do very well, like making iPhones. There are other things big corporations may not do so well, like structure mortgage derivatives. Might we be able to use corporations for what works, and get them out of doing what doesn't?

Originally Posted by sammi jo

No, the old model is becoming increasingly irrelevant in today's world, and those people who are going to inherit the world, and hope to raise another generation are worried, frustrated and angry, and for hundreds of reasons.

This article here on CNN by Douglas Rushkoff (author of the excellent book "Coercion"), articulates the issue. Amazing that CNN features such a sensible piece, a gem amongst the standard infantile "Corporate Weasel Media" dross.



This article is a must read for anyone who is confused by whats happening. Read the whole article... it wont take long.

LINK HERE.

Anyone who says he has no idea what these folks are protesting is not being truthful. Whether we agree with them or not, we all know what they are upset about, and we all know that there are investment bankers working on Wall Street getting richer while things for most of the rest of us are getting tougher. What upsets banking's defenders and politicians alike is the refusal of this movement to state its terms or set its goals in the traditional language of campaigns.

That's because, unlike a political campaign designed to get some person in office and then close up shop (as in the election of Obama), this is not a movement with a traditional narrative arc. As the product of the decentralized networked-era culture, it is less about victory than sustainability. It is not about one-pointedness, but inclusion and groping toward consensus. It is not like a book; it is like the Internet.

Occupy Wall Street is meant more as a way of life that spreads through contagion, creates as many questions as it answers, aims to force a reconsideration of the way the nation does business and offers hope to those of us who previously felt alone in our belief that the current economic system is broken.

But unlike a traditional protest, which identifies the enemy and fights for a particular solution, Occupy Wall Street just sits there talking with itself, debating its own worth, recognizing its internal inconsistencies and then continuing on as if this were some sort of new normal. It models a new collectivism, picking up on the sustainable protest village of the movement's Egyptian counterparts, with food, first aid, and a library.

Originally Posted by trumptman

Articulates the issue? I hope that was a joke.





If we can just sit around and raise our consciousness, all the jobs,food and healthcare will just magically appear.

Perhaps there is a reason people who like numbers, goals, and those who follow "traditional" mind closing conceptions like "success" and "employability" end up with all the goodies while these idiots complain that reality intrudes on the bad coffee and stale cigarettes.

"I am not among those who fear the people.
They, and not the rich, are our dependence for continued freedom.
And to preserve their independence,
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
We must make our election between economy and liberty
or profusion and servitude.

"... and at some level, I can't blame them"

Originally Posted by sammi jo

No, the old model is becoming increasingly irrelevant in today's world, and those people who are going to inherit the world, and hope to raise another generation are worried, frustrated and angry, and for hundreds of reasons.

This article here on CNN by Douglas Rushkoff (author of the excellent book "Coercion"), articulates the issue. Amazing that CNN features such a sensible piece, a gem amongst the standard infantile "Corporate Weasel Media" dross.



This article is a must read for anyone who is confused by whats happening. Read the whole article... it wont take long.

LINK HERE.

Originally Posted by FloorJack

I have some nice land in Florida to sell to anyone that thinks this is a genuine grassroots effort.

Originally Posted by sammi jo

OK, Mr. Corporate Welfare appeaser and champion of "going soft on corporate crime", how about:

"The goal is in the long run end corporate rule and shift power to the people". Recall a quaint little document called the US Constitution? How does it open: "We the corporations....?" Um, no.

Furthermore since corporations claim to have same rights as individuals, then they MUST have the same responsibilities... Or otherwise in the bizarro, twisited world of Trumptman et al

Originally Posted by jimmac

You know I haven't been around much lately but it really doesn't surprise me that there are types here who don't get what's going on and how fed up people are with financial inequality. Now before these types start saying things like we wouldn't have anything without the banks and the wealthy think about what you're saying. This is a country for and by the people. That's how it's suppose to work. What you are saying when you favor the situation is that you'd rather have a ruling class. You know kind of like a monarchy instead of a democracy. And that my friends sounds very unamerican and spits in the face of what this country stands for and what the original americans intended. You know, the stuff you're always harping on.

And no I don't think he was talking about big government. He was talking about the difference between a ruling class and the ordinary people who make up this country. And if you can't see it reread the first sentence again.

Originally Posted by tonton

I already sold my Florida land to the people who think the Tea Party is a genuine grassroots movement.

Originally Posted by BR

Nice dodge. You don't vote Republican?

Originally Posted by trumptman

Actually the funds in your account have been frozen tonton. It seems they found a "threatened" bird on the property. Without your consent or knowledge they razed all the structures on it to the ground and restored it to prestine wetlands condition. Now they are using eminent domain to take the land and are willing to offer you cents on the dollar compared to the price at which you previously had it listed. Sure you're out the money but you were just a greedy and ignorant bastard for having improved the land in the first place and the bird is the important thing really, not you and filthy money.

Originally Posted by SDW2001

Huh? Yes, I do, because that party (GOP) tends to represent my positions. But that doesn't make me a member of the Tea Party. Not dodging anything...I support several Tea Party positions. But there are those I don't agree with, such as when they called for refusing to raise the debt ceiling no matter what concessions were made.

Originally Posted by trumptman

The reality, regardless of whether you want to endorse it or not, is that the banks are controlled by the gigantic Federal Reserve which is a creature of government. Your platitudes might read nicely on a bumper sticker but again, the reality is that corporations are taxed, pay taxes on profits, collect sales taxes for the state, pay income and Social Security taxes on behalf of their employees, etc.

Perhaps in the bizarro world of your mind though, a few bumper stickers and some consciousness raising fixes the creation of all wealth for all people forever.



The ruling class has been the Democratic party in Congress since 2006. They still have the presidency and the Senate and what they've managed to do is borrow more money than all the prior presidents combined and hand it over to their friends, family and associates under the guises of "green jobs" or "shovel-ready" projects. This crony-capitalism is what should be protested, prevented and stopped with the next election. The fact is that these folks would vote it into office for round two. They're slitting their own throats and protesting the outcomes created with their own votes. No one need have sympathy for that.



Actually the funds in your account have been frozen tonton. It seems they found a "threatened" bird on the property. Without your consent or knowledge they razed all the structures on it to the ground and restored it to prestine wetlands condition. Now they are using eminent domain to take the land and are willing to offer you cents on the dollar compared to the price at which you previously had it listed. Sure you're out the money but you were just a greedy and ignorant bastard for having improved the land in the first place and the bird is the important thing really, not you and filthy money.

The ruling class has been the Democratic party in Congress since 2006. They still have the presidency and the Senate and what they've managed to do is borrow more money than all the prior presidents combined and hand it over to their friends, family and associates under the guises of "green jobs" or "shovel-ready" projects. This crony-capitalism is what should be protested, prevented and stopped with the next election. The fact is that these folks would vote it into office for round two. They're slitting their own throats and protesting the outcomes created with their own votes. No one need have sympathy for that.

Originally Posted by SDW2001

Huh? Yes, I do, because that party (GOP) tends to represent my positions. But that doesn't make me a member of the Tea Party. Not dodging anything...I support several Tea Party positions. But there are those I don't agree with, such as when they called for refusing to raise the debt ceiling no matter what concessions were made.

Originally Posted by tonton

Oh well. The birds are actually important. At least I got something back. So many countries wouldn't have given me cents on the dollar, and would have claimed the land with no compensation whatsoever. Shows what a great place America is.

And since I'm a shrewd investor and have so many other investments, I'll write it off as a good deed, and continue to make money on my other properties. I'm smart and I never put all my eggs in one basket, even if it means I can't invest as much on what I perceive as a golden opportunity. I'm glad I live by this philosophy. I also don't need to greedily cling to ever cent I've ever earned if it means there's one less bird that might become extinct in my lifetime.

Now it's off to find the next investment.

Originally Posted by jimmac

Like I've said certain types here clearly have missed the boat on understanding what's going on or even the content of my post. They do have a great capacity for rationalizing their position and the people they support ie : " Don't look at that! That's not important look over here ". Even though " over here " isn't the subject of this thread or the reason people are upset.

Originally Posted by BR

And does your party promote the end of prohibition of both drugs and prostitution? I never fucking said anything about the Tea Party. You're just making shit up and twisting in the wind.

Originally Posted by trumptman

Yes, this is wonderful as a hypothetical.

Meanwhile the NIMBY's in reality won't even allow a windmill within their view. Also what makes you so certain they won't come after your other investments. I mean money is money and greed is greed right?

Originally Posted by tonton

Wait. You're sarcastically criticizing your OWN hypothetical as being a hypothetical? HAhaha!!!!!

And then you go on with... get this... another hypothetical. Man. That's classic.

Your deliberate scaremongering doesn't affect me. I know that the chance of this happening to me in the United States of America is less than in other countries, and less than me getting struck by lightning, and I'm proud of my country for that. Meanwhile, efforts to protect the environment are noble... and I'm proud of my country for that (though they can do more). So I ask: why do you hate America so much?

Originally Posted by Northgate

Ah, yes. The good ol' "When my side does it it's honest and pure and filled with bellowing American flags and national anthem." When you do it, though, it's dirty and disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Originally Posted by nvidia2008

It's picked up a bit. So much for the loony unshaved rabble, eh...?

Originally Posted by trumptman

Yes, this is wonderful as a hypothetical. Meanwhile the NIMBY's in reality won't even allow a windmill within their view. Also what makes you so certain they won't come after your other investments. I mean money is money and greed is greed right?

Did you not see the nice Corporation/American Flag flown by the folks at Occupy Wall St? I assure you Apple was on it. Tell me who would be safe from these looters? Tell me how many of your eggs could they confiscate before your own concerns would arise.



Yes and you must be right because after all these years the Democrats have sure made everything so much better.



You tell us which party treats sex work as no big deal and demands there be no drug laws.

Yes and you must be right because after all these years the Democrats have sure made everything so much better.

Originally Posted by NOFEER

I wonder what would happen if SJ shared their work ethic and whining
NOTHING, lazy trolls

Originally Posted by tonton

You still don't get it. BR wasn't talking about the Tea Party when he said "your party" you silly guy. But then I bet you knew that.

Originally Posted by jimmac

I hate to tell you but Jobs probably would be in agreement with these people as he was widely recognized as a liberal.

You see liberals can have a work ethic also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Aihad_cGWQ

Originally Posted by SDW2001

I took it to mean the Tea Party initially. He then said asked if I voted Republican and accused me of dodging the question. I said that I did. But you really don't care about that. You're more interested in feigning intellectual superiority because I took his statement to mean something different. You seem to have a real affinity for jumping on any little miscommunication lately.

Originally Posted by sammi jo

When people camp out, they tend to look as if they have been camping out!

Originally Posted by BR

Once you "realized" you misinterpreted my original statement, you failed to answer the question.

You vote for a party that does not want to end prohibition.

You vote for a party that does not want maximum personal freedom, although they claim that is their modus operandi. Or am I wrong about this?

Originally Posted by Hands Sandon

Tftfy.

Originally Posted by SDW2001

That is true, because it is not the only issue to me. I agree with the GOP on most things.

Originally Posted by BR

Look how much money is sunk into prohibition. Look at the state seizing people's property when they are booked on drug-related offenses. This should be a very, very high priority issue with you.

And when you say personal freedom and reliance, that's just a nice way of sugar coating the freedom for the old to rely on eating cat food; the freedom of a cancer victim's family to rely on medical bankruptcy; the freedom of the 99% to rely on the whims of the corrupt and immoral; the freedom of socialism for corporations but reliance on unforgivable debts for the 99%.

Yeah. Freedom and reliance my ass.

Originally Posted by BR

Look how much money is sunk into prohibition.

Originally Posted by SDW2001

I think I'll decide what issues are of importance to me, thank you.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

A lot of ignorant potheads voted for Obama, because he tricked them good. A lot of them are pretty angry at Obama now too.

I also think that marijuana should be legalized and I disagree with anybody on either side who is in favor of prohibition, as it is not effective, it doesn't work and it is costly to the American tax payer. I do not support the legalization of hard drugs though and I don't really care about crackheads. But marijuana, which is far safer and a better drug than alcohol should definitely be legalized.