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Microsoft removes, then re-adds Zune HD to its website [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 61
10/3/11 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

I still think it would be great if they made a new one, just keep the same shell and update the internals, then have WP7 minus the phone parts. Boom, instant great PMP.




Still a fair sized market for them, considering:



Personally, even with my smartphone and potentially iPhone 5 in a few days, I would never give up my iPod Classic. So much more battery life, easier to use while moving, doesn't waste my phones battery listening to music, etc.


I personally do not buy into this graph, lots of analysis would like to believe this is going to happen, however, I do not believe half of the world cell phone market consumer has the disposable incoming to buy and use a smart phone. Yeah people may buy in, but will they stay in. The monthly fees are going to be the first thing that goes when people can't pay their bills, I think the smart phone business will eventual level out at about 30% of the world market and then it is just the on going replacement year after year.
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post #42 of 61
10/3/11 at 2:23pm
Does anyone have any clue how many Zunes were sold, I found this interesting article, and it hights a fact I have pointed out before, which is be careful of statistic they can be made to tell a story you like. I personally never saw the exact number of Zune sold, I believe apple sold over 250M ipods through its history.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM...ED246674C.html

I think this graph tells you something it shows you how interested the public is in ipod verse Zune

http://www.google.com/trends?q=zune%2C+ipod

Other than some initial interest in the beginning and around xmas there has been no interest in it in the last few years even ipod is declining but not at the rate of zune

And the iphone and Ipad is even more popular than the ipod was in its day

http://www.google.com/trends?q=zune%...ate=all&sort=0
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post #43 of 61
10/3/11 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

Perfect example of failed branding.

The hardware and OS are pretty good and solid - the branding was atrocious. 'Squirting'... really?

The way to compete with Apple is to not compete with Apple.
If they had branded their device as something different and focused on their own brand strategy - they might have sold a few. Instead, they focused on informing the consumer that they were not the #1 brand for these gadgets. Thus the consumer lemming effect to stick with a winner.

Microsoft needs a new marketing team. I was shocked to see they are still running with the - I'm a PC' - advertising that proposes to the consumer that there are other options that may not have an inferiority complex.

Apple doesn't always have the best hardware and solutions - but they sure know how to brand. Right down to the packaging.

I am sure Balmer had something to do with the "squirting" name. So stupid.

I agree. These other companies need to learn that there will always be someone on top but that they can still make a profit with a smaller segment of the market. Instead they play the "me too" game and fail.

Jobs said it best years ago. Microsoft, for the most part, makes good products. Their problem is that they simply have no class. I have to agree with that statement.
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post #44 of 61
10/3/11 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

I personally do not buy into this graph, lots of analysis would like to believe this is going to happen, however, I do not believe half of the world cell phone market consumer has the disposable incoming to buy and use a smart phone. Yeah people may buy in, but will they stay in. The monthly fees are going to be the first thing that goes when people can't pay their bills, I think the smart phone business will eventual level out at about 30% of the world market and then it is just the on going replacement year after year.

Read the chart. It states U.S. market, not world market.
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post #45 of 61
10/3/11 at 2:45pm
I wish Apple had something like Zune Pass for iTunes.
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post #46 of 61
10/3/11 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I wish Apple had something like Zune Pass for iTunes.

I'm glad they don't. I'd rather own my music than pay monthly for the rest of my life to listen to stuff I don't own.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #47 of 61
10/3/11 at 2:57pm
So Microsoft is either playing pranks or it's just inept?
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post #48 of 61
10/3/11 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Apple/Microsoft are winning/dying...yada yada.

Apple makes good products. The Zune HD was a fantastic music player with better sound quality than the iPod, BUT it couldn't compete if you wanted apps, plain and simple. Plus MS's customer support for the Zune was abysmal. With Apple you can just walk into their stores and get something fixed with little problems. MS would be smart to try and put their Zune software on all platforms, but I don't see that happening.

I guess the days of dedicated music players are seeing an end. The Classic might go the way of the Dodo as well tomorrow. This is unfortunate as I like having a dedicated music player versus a smartphone. I guess we can settle on the iPod Touch for now.

What was important about the iPod is that it was cool, it formed a software ecosystem, it signed the deal with the record labels, and suddenly you could choose from millions of tracks. Aside from the iPod Touch, which will survive, the old music-only players are not selling (much) anymore. Time to retire it for the top sellers: phones and touch devices. Still play music. (Nano will survive, and the iTouch.)

The Zune was indeed not a bad music player, but by the time they got to a real model that did probably outclass the iPod in many ways, the days of the music player were dying. They might win the abandoned market for a few years at best.
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post #49 of 61
10/3/11 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

I am sure Balmer had something to do with the "squirting" name. So stupid.

I agree. These other companies need to learn that there will always be someone on top but that they can still make a profit with a smaller segment of the market. Instead they play the "me too" game and fail.

Jobs said it best years ago. Microsoft, for the most part, makes good products. Their problem is that they simply have no class. I have to agree with that statement.

I won't dispute your idea that Microsoft has no class, but what Jobs said was that Microsoft has no taste.
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post #50 of 61
10/3/11 at 4:02pm
Even cheap feature phones you buy for £20 out of the Argos catalogue can play music now and do a pretty good job of it too. Think about it, if you have a feature phone from the past 3 years then you already have music and video in your pocket with SD Card expansion. iPod touch is more capable than a Zune by a country mile and an iPod classic holds so much media its borderline insane - factor in the iTunes eco system and you're left wondering why you would buy a Zune at all. The only reason I can think of is nerds wanting to try something new for the hell of it and people who are "Anything But Apple".

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #51 of 61
10/3/11 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm glad they don't. I'd rather own my music than pay monthly for the rest of my life to listen to stuff I don't own.

Assuming an 70 year life span from 15 - 85 years old:

70 years * 12 months * $10 a month = $8400 for a lifetime of unlimited music listening.

Or you can buy around 8400 songs (12 songs a CD) or 700 CDs.

Which is more music 700 CDs worth of music or millions of song?
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post #52 of 61
10/3/11 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Assuming an 70 year life span from 15 - 85 years old:

70 years * 12 months * $10 a month = $8400 for a lifetime of unlimited music listening.

Or you can buy around 8400 songs (12 songs a CD) or 700 CDs.

Which is more music 700 CDs worth of music or millions of song?

1) You know a lot of 85yo people buying lots of new music?

2) When you own the music you can store it and convert it and move it, and keep it on any device you want. With a subscription plan you are locked into a specific service that may not work on all your devices, is locked and may not have all the media you wish it to have, much like Netflix streaming which is something that people are more likely to use once before moving on, unless music.
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post #53 of 61
10/3/11 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

I won't dispute your idea that Microsoft has no class, but what Jobs said was that Microsoft has no taste.

Yep, my mistake.
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post #54 of 61
10/3/11 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) You know a lot of 85yo people buying lots of new music?

2) When you own the music you can store it and convert it and move it, and keep it on any device you want. With a subscription plan you are locked into a specific service that may not work on all your devices, is locked and may not have all the media you wish it to have, much like Netflix streaming which is something that people are more likely to use once before moving on, unless music.

Over a person's life they can have multiple subscriptions on various hardware. It doesn't have to be just from MS. My point is that a person will have more choices of music with a subscription over a period of time versus just buying CDs or files.

Okay and what are you going to do with those music files when you are dead and buried?
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post #55 of 61
10/3/11 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Assuming an 70 year life span from 15 - 85 years old:

70 years * 12 months * $10 a month = $8400 for a lifetime of unlimited music listening.

Or you can buy around 8400 songs (12 songs a CD) or 700 CDs.

Which is more music 700 CDs worth of music or millions of song?

Why pay anything at all?
Spotify = Free (and the premium service is the same price with offline storage and iPhone support)
Grooveshark = Free
Pandora = Free
Buying a CD for a one off cost of £4.99 = unlimited listening without paying a fee every month + any device + any time + any where.
Not getting a new album one month, all you're doing is listening to music you've listened to before = $10 anyway!
Stopping subscription = not being able to listen to any of the music you listened to before - tough sh*t, get over it.

Zune Pass = Renting. Good for long term? Hell no.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #56 of 61
10/3/11 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Over a person's life they can have multiple subscriptions on various hardware. It doesn't have to be just from MS. My point is that a person will have more choices of music with a subscription over a period of time versus just buying CDs or files.

Okay and what are you going to do with those music files when you are dead and buried?

Its not more choice of music, its the same choice of music, except you are renting the media, not owning it. See the points I made in my other post.

What are you going to do with your subscription when you are dead and buried? Did you really think that would be a valid point?

... at night.

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post #57 of 61
10/3/11 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Over a person's life they can have multiple subscriptions on various hardware. It doesn't have to be just from MS. My point is that a person will have more choices of music with a subscription over a period of time versus just buying CDs or files.

Here's is a scenario for you. I have exactly 700 albums I love. I spend 35 years my life only using a subscription service, with 35 years left. Then I have to because the player I like doesn't support the service or the service is completely dead because it's not nearly as popular as some wish it to be start buying my music. Now how much will cost me? You see how your situation is an ideal that simply doesn't exist in real life for the majority.

Quote:
Okay and what are you going to do with those music files when you are dead and buried?

I'd be dead, why the frak would I care.
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post #58 of 61
10/3/11 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm glad they don't. I'd rather own my music than pay monthly for the rest of my life to listen to stuff I don't own.

Well you also get to keep 10 songs at the end of each month. Plus If you think about it 15 a month equals $180 per year x that by 70 years equals $12,600 for unlimited access to over 13+ million songs, this is also obviously assuming there is no inflation. The Zune Pass, most likely even with inflation, is still cheaper for 70 years then it is to buy/own 13+ million songs permanently. Increase the price by ten times and it would still be cheaper with the Zune Pass.
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post #59 of 61
10/3/11 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) You know a lot of 85yo people buying lots of new music?

2) When you own the music you can store it and convert it and move it, and keep it on any device you want. With a subscription plan you are locked into a specific service that may not work on all your devices, is locked and may not have all the media you wish it to have, much like Netflix streaming which is something that people are more likely to use once before moving on, unless music.


Theoritically #2 is true going into the future but lets say Zune Pass or some other subscription service still exists going into the future, it is still cheaper. I think it is unreasonable to expect that subscription music services won't exist in one form or another for the next 70 years. You can play a whole bunch of scenarios out, for example with own music what happens if you can't convert it to a different format that new media players only support and you don't have a CD or you do but optical drives no longer exist and or the CD rot has taken place. What then? Well the answer is that you are forced to rebuy the music in the new format.

There are pros and cons/risks to everything, I think it is fair to say though that movie and music subscriptions are cheaper in the long run than owning but you carry the risk that in the future you may not necessarily have the same access that owning may grant you.
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post #60 of 61
10/3/11 at 9:29pm
  • hmm
  • Keylogger
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightzero View Post

But...I don't want a Zune. I just want to...sing....

Stop that stop that! You're not going to do a song while I'm here.
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post #61 of 61
10/4/11 at 3:58am
The reason Zune was off the web site for a while was due to the fact the entries on the web site had a predetermined level of sales requirement to be on the site. Someone had to go in to the database and reset the level to zero for the Zune to show up.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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