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Democrats and Lefists: F*CK DEMOCRACY!

post #1 of 63
Thread Starter 
WSJ has James Taranto noting the troubling trend with links o'plenty to the various claims and demands.

However before we get to that, let's hit a nice link found via Slashdot.org about four Democratic NY State Senators who think that free speech is a bit overrated and something the government ought to grant when you're allowed to speak.


Free speech, voting, these are big problems for the political left.

Quote:
"I think we ought to suspend, perhaps, elections for Congress for two years and just tell them we won't hold it against them, whatever decisions they make, to just let them help this country recover. I really hope that someone can agree with me on that," North Carolina's Gov. Beverly Perdue said yesterday. "You want people who don't worry about the next election."

Yes, worrying about elections, being represented, etc. Those are all things we ought to forgo.

Quote:
To solve the serious problems facing our country, we need to minimize the harm from legislative inertia by relying more on automatic policies and depoliticized commissions for certain policy decisions. In other words, radical as it sounds, we need to counter the gridlock of our political institutions by making them a bit less democratic. . . .

Perhaps the most dramatic example of this idea is the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB), created as part of the recent health care reform legislation. The IPAB will be an independent panel of medical experts tasked with devising changes to Medicare's payment system. In each year that Medicare's per capita costs exceed a certain threshold, the IPAB is responsible for making proposals to reduce projected cost growth. The proposals take effect automatically unless Congress specifically passes legislation blocking them and the president signs that legislation.

IPAB is also affectionately known as "Death Panels." We need more groups of bureaucrats that make binding decisions that automatically become legislation with no due process.

Quote:
If the president really wants to lead from the front, he should summon the Democratic and Republican leadership, along with all 12 members of the House-Senate deficit "supercommittee," to join him at Camp David and tell the world that they are not coming back without a Grand Bargain--one that offers some short-term jobs stimulus, a credible long-term debt reduction plan with entitlement cuts and tax reform that increases revenues.

We will put you all in a room and you can't leave until you agree with me. Apparently none of this is scary to those who want to occupy things with no particular agenda.

Why is Democracy suddenly so bad, especially from those who declared Bush would be a tyrant and declared he wouldn't step down nor hold elections? It is suddenly bad because it is pretty clear they are going to lose the majority of those elections and the presidency in 2012. When you can't have power via the ballot box, then suddenly the ballot box is very bad in their minds. If they could just hurry up and set up a bunch of unaccountable committees who make binding decisions that require votes to overturn and reject, then they could march off on their merry way content to know that a representative government and the rights of other people are something they never need fear.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #2 of 63
Paul Ryan had a good critique of Jeffery Sachs latest book. It seems the people just can't be trusted to elect those that make decisions about taxes and spending.

America's Enduring Ideal
Jeffrey Sachs is only the latest in a long line of thinkers to reject the values of our commercial republic.
post #3 of 63
As usual, this thread is deliberately misrepresentative of the sentiment of the majority of Liberals, all of whom you abhor, regardless of their position. So since the majority of Liberals oppose anti-democratic measures such as these, would you say that the majority of Liberals are correct on this issue?
post #4 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

As usual, this thread is deliberately misrepresentative of the sentiment of the majority of Liberals, all of whom you abhor. So since the majority of Liberals oppose anti-democratic measures such as these, would you say that the majority of Liberals are correct on this issue?

I think a good number of liberals are conflicted with freedom and democracy. It's easy to find inconsistencies in their ideals. They love freedom until it means freedom for all and then they want to carve out exceptions.
post #5 of 63
I think a good number of conservatives are conflicted with freedom and democracy. It's easy to find inconsistencies in their ideals. They love freedom until it means freedom for all and then they want to carve out exceptions.

Seriously, what's the point of this thread?

Is war compatible with Freedom? Oh, freedom for Americans is good, Freedom for foreigners, bad? I see. Sounds really consistent to me.

The "war on drugs": more freedom or less freedom?

The war on immigration: more freedom or less freedom?

What about laws against abortion: More freedom, or less freedom?

Laws against same sex marriage: More freedom, or less freedom?

Seems you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and you just like criticizing Liberals. One might expect you to put a little thought into your posts once in a while. Maybe try harder next time?

Hypocrites, the both of you.

I say most Conservatives support freedom and democracy, despite the examples I've posted where many don't.

Can you at least be honest and say most Liberals do support freedom and democracy? I don't think you can. Prove me wrong.
post #6 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

As usual, this thread is deliberately misrepresentative of the sentiment of the majority of Liberals, all of whom you abhor, regardless of their position. So since the majority of Liberals oppose anti-democratic measures such as these, would you say that the majority of Liberals are correct on this issue?

I do believe the majority oppose Democracy because they do not believe in majority rule. Likewise it doesn't matter whether the majority believes in this manner when they believe an enlightened and authoritarian minority ought to control the majority. They constantly create exceptions to rights using strange and absurd reasoning. Their concept of rights is not consistent and appeals to politically expedient mob rule. They have a created a false history of utopia and the fall from it caused by various -isms and act no better than religious fanatics. Their authoritarian intentions seek to remove more decisions and rights from the majority daily be it, whether to own a dog, whether you can shop at a Walmart, or whether you can buy your son a happy meal.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I do believe the majority oppose Democracy because they do not believe in majority rule. Likewise it doesn't matter whether the majority believes in this manner when they believe an enlightened and authoritarian minority ought to control the majority. They constantly create exceptions to rights using strange and absurd reasoning. Their concept of rights is not consistent and appeals to politically expedient mob rule. They have a created a false history of utopia and the fall from it caused by various -isms and act no better than religious fanatics. Their authoritarian intentions seek to remove more decisions and rights from the majority daily be it, whether to own a dog, whether you can shop at a Walmart, or whether you can buy your son a happy meal.

It would have been nice of you to respond to my point. Instead, you maintain the deliberately misleading premise of this thread, which is the idiotic assertion that Liberals hate America.
post #8 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I think a good number of conservatives are conflicted with freedom and democracy. It's easy to find inconsistencies in their ideals. They love freedom until it means freedom for all and then they want to carve out exceptions.

Seriously, what's the point of this thread?

Is war compatible with Freedom? Oh, freedom for Americans is good, Freedom for foreigners, bad? I see. Sounds really consistent to me.

The "war on drugs": more freedom or less freedom?

The war on immigration: more freedom or less freedom?

What about laws against abortion: More freedom, or less freedom?

Laws against same sex marriage: More freedom, or less freedom?

Seems you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and you just like criticizing Liberals. One might expect you to put a little thought into your posts once in a while. Maybe try harder next time?

Hypocrites, the both of you.

I say most Conservatives support freedom and democracy, despite the examples I've posted where many don't.

Can you at least be honest and say most Liberals do support freedom and democracy? I don't think you can. Prove me wrong.


Honestly, you and trumpt both have good points. Clearly the majority of liberals don't want to "eff" Democracy, just as there are "conservatives" that seemingly have contempt for democracy. That being said, trumpt offers good examples of Democrats--some even considered "mainstream"--who are clearly proposing some very undemocratic things. And in general, the people running the Democratic Party right now are for more big government, more control, and less freedom. I think that's the point.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #9 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It would have been nice of you to respond to my point. Instead, you maintain the deliberately misleading premise of this thread, which is the idiotic assertion that Liberals hate America.

You're blind spot is part of the problem. I've re-quoted your prior post to show you the problem and see if you can be helped pass that blind spot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

As usual, this thread is deliberately misrepresentative of the sentiment of the majority of Liberals, all of whom you abhor, regardless of their position.

There's no proof for this assertion and worse still, in your mind, declaring someone hates another person means that they are no longer allowed participation in the process, aka no democracy for you. You can't give equal access to hate can you? You shouldn't give due process to hate right? So hate is what you instinctively assign to any disagreement because by default it is what allows you to deny rights.

Quote:
So since the majority of Liberals oppose anti-democratic measures such as these, would you say that the majority of Liberals are correct on this issue?

The majority do not appear to oppose such measures. The majority of liberals are nothing but various minority interest groups trying to steal autonomy, power and money away from everyone else. By minority I don't mean skin color, I mean their interests and their reasoning for assigning themselves victim status assigning hate to others are not held by the majority of people. Their reasoning seldom makes sense and amount to a small polite mob trying to distract you while they rob you blind.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #10 of 63
Thread Starter 
Let's take away the votes of Supreme Court judges.

I'm sorry, what was somebody saying about this being the exception rather than the rule?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #11 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Let's take away the votes of Supreme Court judges.

I'm sorry, what was somebody saying about this being the exception rather than the rule?

Wow she's pretty fucking stupid.
post #12 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The majority do not appear to oppose such measures. The majority of liberals are nothing but various minority interest groups trying to steal autonomy, power and money away from everyone else. By minority I don't mean skin color, I mean their interests and their reasoning for assigning themselves victim status assigning hate to others are not held by the majority of people. Their reasoning seldom makes sense and amount to a small polite mob trying to distract you while they rob you blind.

You once again prove that you know less about the Liberal voter than Obama knows about successful negotiation techniques.
post #13 of 63
Too Much of a Good Thing
Why we need less democracy.
Peter Orszag
post #14 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It would have been nice of you to respond to my point. Instead, you maintain the deliberately misleading premise of this thread, which is the idiotic assertion that Liberals hate America.

I am a Liberal and I love America. This notion Liberals hate America is completely narrow minded!
post #15 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You once again prove that you know less about the Liberal voter than Obama knows about successful negotiation techniques.

Well sure I provided all these links to quotes and example and you provided a snarky bit of name calling, but what does that matter in the long run. You're still in that workers paradise of Hong Kong and I'm still actually here living with the consequences of those liberal voters who ban chocolate milk, puppies and demand intact foreskins for all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

I am a Liberal and I love America. This notion Liberals hate America is completely narrow minded!

Marv, go find your meds before you get banned for racism again.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #16 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Well sure I provided all these links to quotes and example and you provided a snarky bit of name calling, but what does that matter in the long run. You're still in that workers paradise of Hong Kong and I'm still actually here living with the consequences of those liberal voters who ban chocolate milk, puppies and demand intact foreskins for all.

How many links did you provide that represent either the official position of the Democratic or Green Party (or any other party you consider to be "Liberal")? That's right. Zero. But go ahead an lump us all in together with the LINOs that are currently in office. I wouldn't expect any more from someone such as yourself.
post #17 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

How many links did you provide that represent either the official position of the Democratic or Green Party (or any other party you consider to be "Liberal")? That's right. Zero. But go ahead an lump us all in together with the LINOs that are currently in office. I wouldn't expect any more from someone such as yourself.

Wow, talk about a double standard. Gabby Giffords get's shot and any guy who posts on a forum anywhere is suddenly the entire Tea Party for you but posting quotes, from actual elected leaders who belong to an organized party and even the actual leaders and legislation proposed all represents nothing to you.

It has to be part of the 2012 party platform or it doesn't exist.

Barack Obama declaring certain elements are holding guns to the heads of the American people, that doesn't exist. The Vice President declaring they are terrorists means nothing. The governor of a state, well that's nothing right?

What nonsense!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #18 of 63
All those years when Mrs Thatcher was calling Nelson Mandela a "terrorist" and the ANC a "typical terrorist organisation" and Ronald Reagan vetoed sanctions on apartheid South Africa and defended it again and again, and evil liberals like me were marching in our thousands to bring democracy to South Africa...

...only now to learn that it's evil liberals like me who are against democracy and Righteous Upstanding Conservatives who are for it.

Meanwhile, prominent American conservatives get all dewy eyed about the times when only male property owners could vote...

Well! You see. All liberals are shitheads and bastards, because you have a couple of links, and although I have a couple of links showing you that Team Conservative has its own idiots, they don't count, because [fill in trumptman evasion and moral cowardice here]
post #19 of 63
You know who my favorite liberal was? Reagan. Why? Because scumbags like those who identify with the Tea Party would've burned him alive today. And a roasted Reagan is a good Reagan.

See what I did there? I can say stupid, idiotic, moronic, and utterly brain dead things that are designed to do nothing but inspire hate and derision.

Congratulations Trump. I'm sure you're proud.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #20 of 63
There are more chickens than people in the world.
post #21 of 63
This looks like one of those WTF threads we have downstairs.

It reminds of a certain fragment of a speech:

Quote:
Corona veniet Delectis! Victory shall come to the worthy!

Today, democracy, liberty and equality are words to fool the people. No nation can progress with such ideas. They stand in the way of action. Therefore, we abolish them.

In the future, each man will serve the state with absolute obedience. Let him who refuses beware!

Garbage
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
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« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
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post #22 of 63
In addition to the other valid criticisms of this ridiculous thread, the most obvious fallacy is the idea that to say, "we need a little less democracy than we have now", which first of all is not the view of the majority of Liberals, is equivalent to "fuck democracy". It's not even close to the same thing. The lies from a few of the less intelligent people on the right just never cease, or perhaps they are actually so ignorant that they really believe in such polarized ideas, and are unable to see that it's not an "either/or" issue.

First of all, there can never be "complete freedom" unless there is absolute anarchy. You will never have the freedom to drive the wrong way on a one way street, for instance, even if no one is ever hurt by your action.

Secondly, you can never have complete democracy, as the minority require protection. This is one of the fundamental ideals of the USA, which is not an absolute Democracy, nor should it be.

Third, you cannot have true equality without restricting both freedom and democracy for some of the people.

To think otherwise is infantile.
post #23 of 63
Well, largely this is the same group that thinks if evolution has a single flaw, the bible is instantly correct.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #24 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Well, largely this is the same group that thinks if evolution has a single flaw, the bible is instantly correct.

Of course that view is ridiculous. I mean really.

The validity of evolution in no way correlates to the validity of the Bible. They are separate subjects.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #25 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Of course that view is ridiculous. I mean really.

The validity of evolution in no way correlates to the validity of the Bible. They are separate subjects.

Unfortunately, the majority of Christians in America would appear to disagree with you. Perhaps you can help us to educate your ignorant peers.
post #26 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

All those years when Mrs Thatcher was calling Nelson Mandela a "terrorist" and the ANC a "typical terrorist organisation" and Ronald Reagan vetoed sanctions on apartheid South Africa and defended it again and again, and evil liberals like me were marching in our thousands to bring democracy to South Africa...

...only now to learn that it's evil liberals like me who are against democracy and Righteous Upstanding Conservatives who are for it.

Meanwhile, prominent American conservatives get all dewy eyed about the times when only male property owners could vote...

Well! You see. All liberals are shitheads and bastards, because you have a couple of links, and although I have a couple of links showing you that Team Conservative has its own idiots, they don't count, because [fill in trumptman evasion and moral cowardice here]

Well now you can have fun with a tonton evasion MJ because per him it doesn't matter what the leaders say or do. It doesn't count unless it is part of the party platform. Of course as someone who has a disability related to quantifiers, you might need a little help understanding the difference. I watched your video and the point is totally misleading. His point is very valid, that if you are going to be equal under government, you can exempt certain people remains true. Landownership gets you "skin in the game" a type of responsibility you can't avoid in terms of taxation. The dependency rate is growing ever higher in the U.S. and those who can sit back and do nothing but vote themselves more money while having no responsibility are indeed a troubling concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

You know who my favorite liberal was? Reagan. Why? Because scumbags like those who identify with the Tea Party would've burned him alive today. And a roasted Reagan is a good Reagan.

See what I did there? I can say stupid, idiotic, moronic, and utterly brain dead things that are designed to do nothing but inspire hate and derision.

Congratulations Trump. I'm sure you're proud.

I've heard people claim this a few times, must be some little meme floating around out there. There's never been an attempt to substantiate it at all of course. It isn't as if the people in the party today reject Reagan or talk badly about him and what he did. Reagan supported lower taxes, a strong military, spoke against universal healthcare, and supported state's rights. Can you name what specifically supports your claim here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

In addition to the other valid criticisms of this ridiculous thread, the most obvious fallacy is the idea that to say, "we need a little less democracy than we have now", which first of all is not the view of the majority of Liberals, is equivalent to "fuck democracy". It's not even close to the same thing. The lies from a few of the less intelligent people on the right just never cease, or perhaps they are actually so ignorant that they really believe in such polarized ideas, and are unable to see that it's not an "either/or" issue.

First of all, there can never be "complete freedom" unless there is absolute anarchy. You will never have the freedom to drive the wrong way on a one way street, for instance, even if no one is ever hurt by your action.

Secondly, you can never have complete democracy, as the minority require protection. This is one of the fundamental ideals of the USA, which is not an absolute Democracy, nor should it be.

Third, you cannot have true equality without restricting both freedom and democracy for some of the people.

To think otherwise is infantile.

How does one have a "little less democracy?" That's like saying let's be a little bit pregnant. It is hilarious to watch you declare anyone who disagrees with you to be an anarchist while what you are advocating for is totalitarian and authoritarian rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Well, largely this is the same group that thinks if evolution has a single flaw, the bible is instantly correct.

Yes and this comes from the same group that can't see any other type of proof beyond scientific as relevant.

BTW, those Democracy loving Democrats have started using the nuclear option in the Senate. Let's just fast-forward to 2012 when any rule changes passed by Republicans with 50+1 will now be endorsing emperors and kings.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #27 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

How does one have a "little less democracy?" That's like saying let's be a little bit pregnant.



You're not serious. You're not really that ignorant are you? You're pulling my leg. You're deliberately trying to appear stupid now.

Let me give you a clue. The US is nowhere close to a 100% democracy. It never has been. It's also not a 100% non-democracy. There are Democratic elements in place, though they are not the mainstay of our system, which is representative republic.

So obviously, there are degrees of democracy. Do you disagree with that? Seriously?
post #28 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Well now you can have fun with a tonton evasion MJ because per him it doesn't matter what the leaders say or do. It doesn't count unless it is part of the party platform. Of course as someone who has a disability related to quantifiers, you might need a little help understanding the difference. I watched your video and the point is totally misleading. His point is very valid, that if you are going to be equal under government, you can exempt certain people remains true. Landownership gets you "skin in the game" a type of responsibility you can't avoid in terms of taxation. The dependency rate is growing ever higher in the U.S. and those who can sit back and do nothing but vote themselves more money while having no responsibility are indeed a troubling concern.

Of course, things were much better when property owners were the only people who hd the power to vote.

This is perfectly all right to say, because he is on your side.

Thatcher and Reagan thought Mandela was a terrorist and the ANC was a terrorist organisation. Liberals marched in their tens of thousands for democracy in South Africa.

And this thread is despicable, provocative bullshit that makes anyone who writes in it a little bit sadder, and the world a bit shitter. You dont care how shit things get, or who angry you make people, as long as you win. Youre actively making your country shitter, spreading hate, making solutions more difficult.

You have no conscience.
post #29 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post



You're not serious. You're not really that ignorant are you? You're pulling my leg. You're deliberately trying to appear stupid now.

Let me give you a clue. The US is nowhere close to a 100% democracy. It never has been. It's also not a 100% non-democracy. There are Democratic elements in place, though they are not the mainstay of our system, which is representative republic.

So obviously, there are degrees of democracy. Do you disagree with that? Seriously?

Listen the phrase is yours so please feel to inform of what you mean. I don't call considering forgoing elections to be "a little less democracy." I don't consider calls to have unelected committees make policies that instantly carry the force the force of law rather than being recommendations for Congress to be a little less Democracy. I don't consider declaring the Supreme Court rulings to be vacated after they are made to be a little less Democracy. They all stink of authoritarianism.

If you can't see the issues here then you are part of the problem.

The looters are increasingly upset that their policies and lifestyle choices don't bring about prosperity. The rationalizations for theft will become ever more strident. This "protest" shows their reasoning perfectly. We want to lay on our asses and make demands that the movers of the world must meet. By sitting on our asses we are superior and by making all the things we need, they are greedy, evil and corrupt.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #30 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post



You're not serious. You're not really that ignorant are you? You're pulling my leg. You're deliberately trying to appear stupid now.

Let me give you a clue. The US is nowhere close to a 100% democracy. It never has been. It's also not a 100% non-democracy. There are Democratic elements in place, though they are not the mainstay of our system, which is representative republic.

So obviously, there are degrees of democracy. Do you disagree with that? Seriously?

And this guy is a teacher. I hope it's not social studies.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #31 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

And this guy is a teacher. I hope it's not social studies.

And what are you exactly?

I mean I only had to be cleared with an FBI background check, cleared by a credential commission, and oh yes, hired by thoughtful educated people to have my position.

What have you done that involved anything besides calling someone names that you'd even care to share?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #32 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I don't call considering forgoing elections to be "a little less democracy."

And I don't consider taking away the right to marry who you want, or to travel without having an anal probe, or to walk down the street without being stopped and asked for your 'papers' or your entire family bombed and killed because you live next to an outspoken Islamic extremist 'a little less freedom'.

Warmongering Republicans and rightists: "Fuck freedom!"
post #33 of 63
Oh look, more Republican sponsored bills promoting the freedom of American citizens...to be arrested for planning to go to Amsterdam and legally purchase and consume marijuana there, or for being a doctor making plans to help with a needle exchange program in a foreign country.

Yup.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #34 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Oh look, more Republican sponsored bills promoting the freedom of American citizens...to be arrested for planning to go to Amsterdam and legally purchase and consume marijuana there, or for being a doctor making plans to help with a needle exchange program in a foreign country.

Yup.

Oh, Jesus, how lovely. Why do Republicans hate freedom?

Republicans: "Fuck freedom! Fuck liberty!"
post #35 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And I don't consider taking away the right to marry who you want, or to travel without having an anal probe, or to walk down the street without being stopped and asked for your 'papers' or your entire family bombed and killed because you live next to an outspoken Islamic extremist 'a little less freedom'.

Warmongering Republicans and rightists: "Fuck freedom!"

Can you do a little thinking beyond bumper stickers? Those evil papers, I suppose you don't care to require a license to drive a car or require a little piece of paper called insurance be mandatory to drive. I'm guessing not because you'd just have the government purchase the one state approved model per household and that'd be the end of it I guess. The anal probes don't just apply for paper, but for pets, chocolate milk, foreskins and whether you composted your food scraps for the people you claim would fix this.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Can you do a little thinking beyond bumper stickers? Those evil papers, I suppose you don't care to require a license to drive a car or require a little piece of paper called insurance be mandatory to drive. I'm guessing not because you'd just have the government purchase the one state approved model per household and that'd be the end of it I guess. The anal probes don't just apply for paper, but for pets, chocolate milk, foreskins and whether you composted your food scraps for the people you claim would fix this.

Why don't you do a little thinking before you comment? Technically, a police officer cannot stop you while you're driving, for no reason, and ask for your license and registration. The same should apply for residency documents.
post #37 of 63
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Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Why don't you do a little thinking before you comment? Technically, a police officer cannot stop you while you're driving, for no reason, and ask for your license and registration. The same should apply for residency documents.

That is no different from any bits of legislation you claim amount to having to "show your papers." I've not read that there is ever a case where your papers can just be demanded. You always have to be doing something wrong and then as part of questioning for doing something wrong, you can be asked for your residency paperwork. Talk about not thinking, do you even realize what you are saying?

Of course we all remember there are places where you don't have to be doing something wrong and can be asked for your paperwork at anytime. That would be called Hong Kong where you live where officials can make that demand at any time of you.

Don't you enjoy living in and supporting a police state there Tonton?

Of course you can come back to California and enjoy the new police state here as well. Governor Brown just signed laws where your daughter can't go use a tanning bed if she is under 18 even with your consent, but she can get the HPV virus immunization, get on the pill and have an abortion all without your consent assuming she is 12 years old.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #38 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

That is no different from any bits of legislation you claim amount to having to "show your papers." I've not read that there is ever a case where your papers can just be demanded. You always have to be doing something wrong and then as part of questioning for doing something wrong, you can be asked for your residency paperwork. Talk about not thinking, do you even realize what you are saying?

Of course we all remember there are places where you don't have to be doing something wrong and can be asked for your paperwork at anytime. That would be called Hong Kong where you live where officials can make that demand at any time of you.

Don't you enjoy living in and supporting a police state there Tonton?

Of course you can come back to California and enjoy the new police state here as well. Governor Brown just signed laws where your daughter can't go use a tanning bed if she is under 18 even with your consent, but she can get the HPV virus immunization, get on the pill and have an abortion all without your consent assuming she is 12 years old.

I'm making damn sure she gets the HPV shot this year (she's 13), and I think it should be mandatory, just like MMR and the like (I guess that's one place where I support Perry). This is a public health issue, and the fuckheads who are against it are not using their brains. We can eradicate this disease if it were mandatory. But, oh well, it really only affects women, and really only causes a slight increase in the chance for cervical cancer, so I guess it's not a priority for the Bible-thumping chauvinists in power. I'm sure there is at least one right winger who has said the following: "Those loose wimmin deserve to get this disease, just like those faggots deserve to get AIDS!"

Meanwhile, if m daughter is going on the pill or getting an abortion, it's my own damn fault for not teaching her better. I damn well want children her age to have that option if they have fuckhead parents who can't teach them correctly like Sarah Palin.

And if I recall correctly, part of the Arizona law was that if you believed someone was undocumented, without any reason for such an allegation, you could inform the authorities, and they were required to check that person. How about if I call the DMV and said, I think Nicholas T. Rumpet doesn't have insurance, and they issue a traffic stop warrant for your car? Would you like that?

And just because there is one bad law in Hong Kong doesn't mean I have to accept it somewhere else. Actually there are a shitload of bad laws in Hong Kong, and I do my part to make sure things don't get worse (like the asinine health care reform proposal), and hopefully do get better (like universal suffrage for the CE, and elimination of the Functional Constituencies.
post #39 of 63
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Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I'm making damn sure she gets the HPV shot this year (she's 13), and I think it should be mandatory, just like MMR and the like (I guess that's one place where I support Perry). This is a public health issue, and the fuckheads who are against it are not using their brains. We can eradicate this disease if it were mandatory. But, oh well, it really only affects women, and really only causes a slight increase in the chance for cervical cancer, so I guess it's not a priority for the Bible-thumping chauvinists in power. I'm sure there is at least one right winger who has said the following: "Those loose wimmin deserve to get this disease, just like those faggots deserve to get AIDS!"

Understood, her body, your choice. For everyone else, their body and no choice. What was that you were saying about police states again?

How do they prove they had the mandatory HPV vaccination in your utopia tonton? Would it require showing any paperwork? Would you kick them out of public schools until they produce said paperwork? It's an old discussion but the HPV virus only deals with a few variants of the virus and is no where near 100% effective.

Quote:
Meanwhile, if m daughter is going on the pill or getting an abortion, it's my own damn fault for not teaching her better. I damn well want children her age to have that option if they have fuckhead parents who can't teach them correctly like Sarah Palin.

So I can strip you of your rights as a parents and assign them to the state if I believe you are a "fuckhead." Is that your reasoning here? Suppose I thought your child a bit too chubby. Can I demand the state step in and "teach them correctly" until her weight comes into line?

Quote:
And if I recall correctly, part of the Arizona law was that if you believed someone was undocumented, without any reason for such an allegation, you could inform the authorities, and they were required to check that person. How about if I call the DMV and said, I think Nicholas T. Rumpet doesn't have insurance, and they issue a traffic stop warrant for your car? Would you like that?

First I recall nothing like that and recall that it could only take place within routine traffic stops. If you have something that states different I'd love to read it. Second you just used this rationalization to excuse away "papers" in your prior post when I asked about paperwork like mandatory insurance and licenses....

Quote:
Technically, a police officer cannot stop you while you're driving, for no reason, and ask for your license and registration.

Now you come back around and declare that the police really don't need a reason because someone can just call and have them stop you for suspicion of not having insurance. Your reasoning just became, they can stop you to check on immigration papers under suspicion of not having your insurance papers.

SO which is it?
Quote:
And just because there is one bad law in Hong Kong doesn't mean I have to accept it somewhere else. Actually there are a shitload of bad laws in Hong Kong, and I do my part to make sure things don't get worse (like the asinine health care reform proposal), and hopefully do get better (like universal suffrage for the CE, and elimination of the Functional Constituencies.

One bad law? Are you serious? You complain a neighbor could report you in Arizona (don't think that is true but giving you good faith in your reasoning there) and then call the police being able to walk up to you and demand your paperwork and arrest you at any time related to it to merely be ONE BAD LAW. Per your reasoning it is an outright police state where you hold no rights because the government can demand and act on that demand at ANY TIME for ANY or even NO reason.

Also why do you give yourself the benefit of the doubt and condemn others for the same actions? Everyone here involved in the conversations do the same actions you do. They speak out against the bad laws, fight for the good ones, and try to participate and help shape the societies in which they live. The only thing different of course is their INTENTIONS per you and that makes it all right or wrong in your view.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #40 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Also why do you give yourself the benefit of the doubt and condemn others for the same actions? Everyone here involved in the conversations do the same actions you do. They speak out against the bad laws, fight for the good ones, and try to participate and help shape the societies in which they live. The only thing different of course is their INTENTIONS per you and that makes it all right or wrong in your view.

Which brings us around full circle to the asinine premise of this entire thread.
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