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Samsung attempting to block sales of Apple's iPhone 4S in France, Italy

post #1 of 67
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Almost immediately after Apple unveiled its new iPhone 4S, rival Samsung announced it will file injunctions in France and Italy requesting that the courts block the sale of the new iPhone.

Samsung announced the moves on the company's official global blog, revealing that separate preliminary injunction filings would be filed Wednesday in Paris, France, and Milano, Italy.

"Samsung's preliminary injunction requests in France and Italy will each cite two patent infringements related to wireless telecommunications technology, specifically Wideband Code Division Multiple Access (WCDMA) standards for 3G mobile handsets," the company said.

It continued: "Apple has continued to flagrantly violate our intellectual property rights and ride free on our technology. We believe it is now necessary to take legal action to protect our innovation."

Wednesday's move comes as no surprise, as reports from last month indicated that Samsung was planning legal action against Apple's next-generation iPhone before the device was even announced. Rumors ahead of Apple's iPhone 4S event suggested Samsung would file suit in Europe against whatever handset was eventually unveiled.

Samsung promised on Wednesday that it intends to file new injunctions against Apple and the iPhone 4S in other, unnamed countries after "further review."

"The infringed technology is essential to the reliable functioning of telecom networks and devices and Samsung believes that Apple's violation as being too severe and that the iPhone 4S should be barred from sales," the company said.



Barring any court in junctions similar to the ones Apple won against Samsung in Australia and Germany, Apple plans to launch its iPhone 4S next Friday, Oct. 14. While Samsung has sought to ban the handset in Italy, that country is not among the launch list of the U.S., Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the U.K.

Apple has said the iPhone 4S will roll out to 22 more countries by the end of October, including Italy. Other countries on that list are Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland.
post #2 of 67
Jokers
post #3 of 67
Is anyone else getting to the point where they feel that IP is more of a problem than a benefit?

Seriously, why doesn't Apple just go buy some patents for some required wireless technology (shouldn't be hard as there seems to be about a million different patents on the necessary parts of any wireless device) and then Apple and Samsung can sue and block each other into oblivion.

This is getting beyond stupid.
post #4 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Samsung's preliminary injunction requests in France and Italy will each cite two patent infringements related to wireless telecommunications technology, specifically Wideband Code Division Multiple Access (WCDMA) standards for 3G mobile handsets," the company said.

It continued: "Apple has continued to flagrantly violate our intellectual property rights and ride free on our technology. We believe it is now necessary to take legal action to protect our innovation."

Companies need to protect their valuable IP from copycats. Samsung had no choice.
post #5 of 67
Should be fun. Guess Samsung are pissed off that they will no longer be making money supplying as many parts (CPU/FLASH potentially displays) to Apple and won't get an early look at future products to 'inspire' their design team (AKA the bloke in the back office with the carbon paper).

How does EU law stand on trying to strong-arm a competitor into paying extortionate fees for 'essential' technology standards and won't Apple be covered by Qualcomm who design and manufacture the chipsets.
post #6 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

How does EU law stand on trying to strong-arm a competitor into paying extortionate fees for 'essential' technology standards and won't Apple be covered by Qualcomm who design and manufacture the chipsets.

This reminds me something.... Yes, this was said when Nokia sued Apple
post #7 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Companies need to protect their valuable IP from copycats. Samsung had no choice.

Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #8 of 67
Patent law is a joke.

I say that as an electronics engineer working in semiconductor SoC design. Everyone's product, design and architecture infringes on everyone else's patents. Proving infringement is extremely difficult, as is defending ones IP.

The only winners are the legal profession.
post #9 of 67
Samsung is even copying Apple's legal moves.
post #10 of 67
From FOSSPATENTS

Today's announcement by Samsung states that the petitions to be filed today in France and Italy "will each cite two patent infringements related to wireless telecommunications technology, specifically Wideband Code Division Multiple Access (WCDMA) standards for 3G mobile handsets". Very importantly, Samsung's announcement declares those patents to be "essential", which is an incredibly important term in connection with industry standards. If those patents are indeed essential to the standard, then Samsung as a participant in the relevant standard-setting process has an obligation to grant licenses to everyone, including Apple, on FRAND (fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory) terms. Apple already accuses Samsung in other jurisdictions, including but not limited to the U.S., of failing to honor those obligations.

This is what the FRAND issue comes down to: if those patents are essential, then there are two questions to be analyzed by a court: Does Apple have to pay? And if so, how much can Samsung ask for under a FRAND framework? But an injunction can only be justified if and when Apple refuses to pay a FRAND royalty that it owes in the binding opinion of a court of competent jurisdiction.

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011...e-4s-over.html

That's what it is all about. Not just if Apple infringes, but if Samsung is asking fair terms for this 3G patent that is part of a standard.
post #11 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post

Is anyone else getting to the point where they feel that IP is more of a problem than a benefit?

Seriously, why doesn't Apple just go buy some patents for some required wireless technology (shouldn't be hard as there seems to be about a million different patents on the necessary parts of any wireless device) and then Apple and Samsung can sue and block each other into oblivion.

This is getting beyond stupid.

Patents that are required wireless technology aren't supposed to be used as weapons in a patent lawsuit in the first place. Any patents that's foundation of a standard should be licensed under FRAND principle.

Samsung threatening to sue Apple over using those patents are just a classless, petulant child type of move.
post #12 of 67
Good old Florian

Quote:
From a public interest point of view, that's a much more critical issue than the availability of a few LTE 4G devices during this year's Christmas selling season. There may not be an equivalent in France and Italy to the American concept of an amicus curiae brief, but in order to avoid the impression of being hypocrites, Verizon and T-Mobile should at least voice their concern in public and look for other ways to support Apple's defense against this rampant abuse of standards-related patents.
post #13 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

Patents that are required wireless technology aren't supposed to be used as weapons in a patent lawsuit in the first place. Any patents that's foundation of a standard should be licensed under FRAND principle.

Samsung threatening to sue Apple over using those patents are just a classless, petulant child type of move.

So Nokia was wrong suing Apple?
post #14 of 67
What goes around comes around.

Maybe Apple could sue Samsung for "slavishly" copying its sue-happy tactics.
post #15 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post

Is anyone else getting to the point where they feel that IP is more of a problem than a benefit?

Seriously, why doesn't Apple just go buy some patents for some required wireless technology (shouldn't be hard as there seems to be about a million different patents on the necessary parts of any wireless device) and then Apple and Samsung can sue and block each other into oblivion.

This is getting beyond stupid.

With all do respect, this dustup is not about stupidity, it's about the outright thievery of Apple's IP by Samsung, and their refusal to cease and desist.

That being said, isn't it fun watching Samsung slowly strangle themselves! How absurd that the iPhone 4S infringes on some major Samsung IP. Please!

In my book, Galaxy phones are the next Zune, soon to be quietly put down, the same way Microsoft did it.
post #16 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Companies need to protect their valuable IP from copycats. Samsung had no choice.

Of course they do. They are claiming that the patents are essential - so they need to be licensed under FRAND. Apple has no problem paying FRAND license fees - see the Nokia settlement where they agreed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars.

What Apple will NOT agree to is companies trying to use FRAND patents as weapons to attack companies they don't like. That is not permitted under FRAND rules, anyway. So Apple simply wants Samsung to follow FRAND rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John F. View Post

From FOSSPATENTS

Today's announcement by Samsung states that the petitions to be filed today in France and Italy "will each cite two patent infringements related to wireless telecommunications technology, specifically Wideband Code Division Multiple Access (WCDMA) standards for 3G mobile handsets". Very importantly, Samsung's announcement declares those patents to be "essential", which is an incredibly important term in connection with industry standards. If those patents are indeed essential to the standard, then Samsung as a participant in the relevant standard-setting process has an obligation to grant licenses to everyone, including Apple, on FRAND (fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory) terms. Apple already accuses Samsung in other jurisdictions, including but not limited to the U.S., of failing to honor those obligations.

This is what the FRAND issue comes down to: if those patents are essential, then there are two questions to be analyzed by a court: Does Apple have to pay? And if so, how much can Samsung ask for under a FRAND framework? But an injunction can only be justified if and when Apple refuses to pay a FRAND royalty that it owes in the binding opinion of a court of competent jurisdiction.

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011...e-4s-over.html

That's what it is all about. Not just if Apple infringes, but if Samsung is asking fair terms for this 3G patent that is part of a standard.

Exactly. This is exactly like the Nokia case where Nokia tried to use FRAND patent to bludgeon Apple. Apple's response was "we're willing to pay your normal FRAND license fees, but no more". Same thing here.
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post #17 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Exactly. This is exactly like the Nokia case where Nokia tried to use FRAND patent to bludgeon Apple. Apple's response was "we're willing to pay your normal FRAND license fees, but no more". Same thing here.

If Apple said so, why they didn't wanted that a court to decide what amount they had to pay Nokia and settled out of court? Because they knew that Nokia was in strong positioin than them?
post #18 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Poor Conradjoe. Never known the comfort of a woman's touch, forced to work out his deep sense of inadequacy and rage with listless internet trolling. Wipe the Cheetos dust from your chin and resolve to do better. I know you can!

Your parents must be proud of you also.
post #19 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Poor Conradjoe. Never known the comfort of a woman's touch, forced to work out his deep sense of inadequacy and rage with listless internet trolling. Wipe the Cheetos dust from your chin and resolve to do better. I know you can!

Personal attacks are off-topic in this forum. Please don't make other posters into an object of attack.
post #20 of 67
I agree, Samsung should demanding Apple instead to release iPhone 5 instead of this fudge of an update cooked up Mr Cook
post #21 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Companies need to protect their valuable IP from copycats. Samsung had no choice.

I guess no one else picked up on the mockery lol.

Good post Joe.
post #22 of 67
They should just wipe out any tech patents that are obviously needed for progress. Technology builds off itself like learning math.
post #23 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarges View Post

I agree, Samsung should demanding Apple instead to release iPhone 5 instead of this fudge of an update cooked up Mr Cook

Agreed- I want Siri with the fringe on top.
post #24 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

They should just wipe out any tech patents that are obviously needed for progress. Technology builds off itself like learning math.

ain't that the truth.
post #25 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

They should just wipe out any tech patents that are obviously needed for progress. Technology builds off itself like learning math.

Agreed!

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post #26 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Companies need to protect their valuable IP from copycats. Samsung had no choice.

Hmm. Except they are wasting the courts time. They know Apple is already paying these fees through their chipset maker. They are simply trying to make a publicity stunt and generate a buzz for their S2 which is now on it's last legs.
post #27 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Hmm. Except they are wasting the courts time. They know Apple is already paying these fees through their chipset maker. They are simply trying to make a publicity stunt and generate a buzz for their S2 which is now on it's last legs.

And how do you know they paying it through chipset makers?
post #28 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Should be fun. Guess Samsung are pissed off that they will no longer be making money supplying as many parts (CPU/FLASH potentially displays) to Apple and won't get an early look at future products to 'inspire' their design team (AKA the bloke in the back office with the carbon paper).

Maybe they continue to do with what they are best at, making their iPhone clones bigger and bigger.

No seriously, although I am absolutely sure apple will win this battle in the end, I am wondering at what price. This whole legal battle will consume so much money, that could be spent for more innovation. I really hope this is ending soon.
\
post #29 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

They should just wipe out any tech patents that are obviously needed for progress. Technology builds off itself like learning math.

While I don't necessarily agree with wiping all the patents, this is still the smartest comment I have ever read on this site. I hope you don't mind if I borrow that "Technology builds on itself like learning math" line, do you?
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post #30 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarges View Post

I agree, Samsung should demanding Apple instead to release iPhone 5 instead of this fudge of an update cooked up Mr Cook

Everything but the outside of the thing got a major overhaul, and you're unhappy. Unreasonable expectations will make your whole life miserable. Did you want a change in the case shape? You obviously didn't hear Jobs talking about one of the interesting bonuses of the 3GS's smooth launch: there were already a million cases available, because the phone was the same shape as the 3. Did you expect LTE? Surely you didn't. I'm in one of the AT&T LTE cities, but most people aren't. Apple didn't launch 3G when a few people could get it. They launched 3G when most people could get it, and when the chips were compact and power efficient. Apple never gets pushed into doing things before they're ready. And certainly not by people whose expectations were set by rumors sites. You need to learn to read these kinds of things and keep a proper perspective about what's actually likely and what's not--otherwise you might want to consider eschewing these kinds of sites, because they'll just make you upset. The iPhone 4S is an excellent phone. Outstanding processor, stunning camera, and amazing antenna tech. And as far as that antenna goes, don't stamp your foot too hard demanding they change the case next time. They may have just gone and done something they think is optimal. That antenna trick is pretty neat.

Cheers.
post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicNReason View Post

While I don't necessarily agree with wiping all the patents, this is still the smartest comment I have ever read on this site. I hope you don't mind if I borrow that "Technology builds on itself like learning math" line, do you?

Haha no I don't mind.
post #32 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Beige View Post

With all do respect, this dustup is not about stupidity, it's about the outright thievery of Apple's IP by Samsung, and their refusal to cease and desist.

That being said, isn't it fun watching Samsung slowly strangle themselves! How absurd that the iPhone 4S infringes on some major Samsung IP. Please!

In my book, Galaxy phones are the next Zune, soon to be quietly put down, the same way Microsoft did it.

Oh, I completely agree that this all started with what appears to be the most blatant case of design copying that I have ever seen by a major company.

However, all of this (not just this one case) is getting really stupid. Apple sues HTC for IP violations, Nokia sues Apple, Samsung sues Apple, Google spends billions on IP and hands it out for other companies to sue Apple. Apple spends billions to bolster their defensive patent portfolio. AND SO ON AND SO ON!

This has all been done before. It was called the Cold War, and in the end both major participants ended up broke.

It is stupid when I go to any technology news site and over half of the news is about who is suing whom for some IP infringement. How many billions of dollars that could have been spent to "promote the progress of science" have been spent on lawyers?

At what point does all of this not only fail to promote the progress of science, but actually work to retard the progress of science? And when that happens at what point is it the government's responsibility to call this stuff unconstitutional and wipe it out?

This is what is what I consider stupid.
post #33 of 67
Lots of posts here from people who probably didn't ever break a sweat inventing something or invest in a business.

To "wipe out any tech patents that are obviously needed for progress' is one of the more juvenile things I've heard. Unless you want government sponsored R&D and free IP for all areas of our life, private enterprise will expect to have its often substantial investments protected and/or remunerated. Else why invest the time and money?

The focus should be more on FRAND obligations (defining standards and the renumeration by licensee's to the patent holders), issuance of trivial patents, and patent sitters. The age old challenge is who makes these decisions?

R&D leads to innovation, innovation leads to market differentiation, and market differentiation helps build profitable companies that, if they are wise, invest back in R&D. And so on. Unless you can figure out how to live in a utopian world where all is done freely for the good of the masses, expect that companies will protect their IP equity. And they actually must when confronted with serious violations, or they diminish their defense as time passes.

I have no idea what Samsung is claiming now, but if legitimate, Apple should pay - one question might be how much changed with the iPhone 4s vs past iterations when no claims where made by Samsung. But there is so much behind the scenes that we would never hear about that speculation here is fairly wild.
post #34 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

Everything but the outside of the thing got a major overhaul, and you're unhappy. Unreasonable expectations will make your whole life miserable. Did you want a change in the case shape? You obviously didn't hear Jobs talking about one of the interesting bonuses of the 3GS's smooth launch: there were already a million cases available, because the phone was the same shape as the 3. Did you expect LTE? Surely you didn't. I'm in one of the AT&T LTE cities, but most people aren't. Apple didn't launch 3G when a few people could get it. They launched 3G when most people could get it, and when the chips were compact and power efficient. Apple never gets pushed into doing things before they're ready. And certainly not by people whose expectations were set by rumors sites. You need to learn to read these kinds of things and keep a proper perspective about what's actually likely and what's not--otherwise you might want to consider eschewing these kinds of sites, because they'll just make you upset. The iPhone 4S is an excellent phone. Outstanding processor, stunning camera, and amazing antenna tech. And as far as that antenna goes, don't stamp your foot too hard demanding they change the case next time. They may have just gone and done something they think is optimal. That antenna trick is pretty neat.

Cheers.

Spot on! IMHO apple may more or less stick to the marvelous design of IP4 for even more than the next year. The design is so far beyond anything on the marked, that they may use their resources to design some entirely new product line.
post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by iKol View Post

Agreed- I want Siri with the fringe on top.

It will be available starting October 14th... but only in Oklahoma.
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post #36 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarges View Post

I agree, Samsung should demanding Apple instead to release iPhone 5 instead of this fudge of an update cooked up Mr Cook

waambulance?
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post #37 of 67
Quote:
Exactly. This is exactly like the Nokia case where Nokia tried to use FRAND patent to bludgeon Apple. Apple's response was "we're willing to pay your normal FRAND license fees, but no more". Same thing here.

Nokio tooks those clowns from Apple to court...and guess what...they WON a settlement. Period.
post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

waambulance?

waambulance can't help there.
post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post

Nokio tooks those clowns from Apple to court...and guess what...they WON a settlement. Period.

You win a judgement. You don't "win" a settlement. A settlement is a decision that is decided to be mutually advantageous, as it spares both parties more legal fees and removes the "chance" element (you never know what a judge will decide if it goes to court).
post #40 of 67
Samsung claims the iPhone 4 [S] brutally murdered its room mate the iPhone 4 in Italy, and has the DNA evidence to prove it.
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