or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Miramax CEO says Apple a bigger threat to movie industry than piracy
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Miramax CEO says Apple a bigger threat to movie industry than piracy

post #1 of 74
Thread Starter 
Apple's domination of the digital media marketplace is more of a threat to movie companies than piracy, according to Miramax CEO Mike Lang.

Lang argued at the MIPCOM entertainment media event in Cannes this week that in order for movie companies to survive, there must be parity in the digital distribution marketplace, adding that iTunes is hurting competition.

"Piracy really is not the bigger issue for our company or for our library," Lang said. "It's been a lack of exploitation, just not getting it out there."

With Apple's domination of media distribution through its iTunes online store, Lang said the electronics maker is hindering movie companies from distributing their catalogs to a wider audience. The Miramax chief believes that more competition is healthy for both creators of media and the end consumer, as it drives prices down and allows for more content to be available in more places.

Lang also pointed out that the movie industry as a whole needs to not let iTunes dominate distribution as it does with the music industry. While music companies were fighting piracy battles in court, Apple slowly amassed an overwhelming presence in the digital music market and now has the largest online catalog with up to 20 million tracks.

"Apple is the strongest company in the music industry, and because there was not enough competition, and still to this day is not enough competition, as an industry it can't then influence packaging, merchandising, all the things that are vital," Lang said. "As the movie business we have to be very cognizant of that."

He thinks the film industry needs to take note of the lessons learned by the music industry and try to foster cross-platform competition instead of focusing on one channel of distribution.

"That's why we did our deal with Netflix, and why we also did our deal with Hulu," he said. "We want multiple players to be successful."

Chief Content Officer of NetFlix Ted Sarandos, left, talks with Miramax CEO Mike Lang, right, at MIPCOM | Source: mipworld

Miramax inked a deal with Netflix in May, that allows the movie rental company to stream "several hundred" of the studio's movies through its service. The company also signed with online video streaming site Hulu in June to allow streaming of hundreds of commercial-free movies on Hulu Plus, as well as 15 commercial-sponsored videos that are rotated every month.

"It's really important as an industry that we try to allow multiple players in markets around the world," Lang said.
post #2 of 74
Add in Apple's refusal to add Blu-ray or HDMI I can see why.
post #3 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

With Apple's domination of media distribution through its iTunes online store, Lang said the electronics maker is hindering movie companies from distributing their catalogs to a wider audience.

How exactly is Apple hindering movie distribution with iTunes?

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply
post #4 of 74
He means:

"In order for profits to survive there must be parity within the digital distribution markets"
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #5 of 74
I don't believe Apple has any exclusivity with iTunes movies- I see the same movies available at Amazon, etc...
The only thing "hindering movie companies from distributing their catalogs" is their own ineptitude.
post #6 of 74
We should all start to really, really hate Miramax. They are worse then Dell.

Apple is the only company capable of SAVING the movie industry, and Miramax is too stupid to understand. How dare they!

They cling to their tired old ways, kicking and screaming as Apple tries to gently coax them towards profitability, but like spoiled children, they think they know better.
post #7 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

he means:

"in order for our inflated profits to survive on our terms only there must be parity within the digital distribution markets, which we really define to be nobody else can have any influence on what we want to charge"

tftfy
.
Reply
.
Reply
post #8 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

With Apple's domination of media distribution through its iTunes online store, Lang said the electronics maker is hindering movie companies from distributing their catalogs to a wider audience. The Miramax chief believes that more competition is healthy for both creators of media and the end consumer, as it drives prices down and allows for more content to be available in more places.

This is one of the most inane statements I've seen for a long time. Apple is the leader in distributing movies electronically (along with, perhaps, Netflix). Without Apple, there'd be a lot LESS electronic distribution than there is now. Just how is Apple hindering them from distributing their catalogs? Has this executive not learned of the Internet? Apple doesn't own or control the Internet. Then there's Amazon. Netflix. Walmart (or did they drop theirs?). Google. Seems like every month or so, someone else has emerged to take on Apple in this arena.

I would love to see this exec explain how Apple is hindering distribution. I would also laugh my head off if Apple actually publicly confronts him because of his stupidity.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #9 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

With Apple's domination of media distribution through its iTunes online store, Lang said the electronics maker is hindering movie companies from distributing their catalogs to a wider audience. The Miramax chief believes that more competition is healthy for both creators of media and the end consumer, as it drives prices down and allows for more content to be available in more places.

Yeah, Apple's profiteering while there is no competition in phones or set top boxes is why other movie rental companies are able to offer rental movies so much cheaper - but with nobody using Android phones, TiVos, cable boxes etc there's no-one to rent them.

If only the competitors renting movies at half the price were able to rent directly to iphones and AppleTVs, then prices would go down everywhere. If only Amazon had a movie tablet too!

He can't really believe that can he?
post #10 of 74
It just doesn't add up. Hulu and Netflix streaming aren't even the same kind of service, the business model is very different. I doubt those services are paying as much as Apple does for the most equivalent offering. I also doubt that Apple is preventing them from dealing with other services, which I'm pretty sure would be illegal. One of the lines even implies that Apple isn't doing enough for them, which contradicts the suggestion that Apple has too much control. If you want someone to nanny your product at their expense, then you're implicitly giving up control.
post #11 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

He means:

"In order for profits to survive there must be parity within the digital distribution markets"

They've got to make money, too. If they don't then quality will suffer. The cheapest TV they can make are reality shows, that's part of why there's so many and they mostly suck. Movies will get worse, less original, and good indies will be harder to fund even when the economy recovers.

I think everything should be rentable through my Apple TV, at least moviewise. It's like a blockbuster in your house. As for TV, I think we've all been getting screwed on cable and it had better change soon or else they're in for some trouble.
post #12 of 74
"Lang also pointed out that the movie industry as a whole needs to not let iTunes dominate distribution as it does with the music industry"

Sure...Maybe they should go give away their rights to Amazon, so Amazon can offer multiple plays WITHOUT paying them anything, unlike Apple, who worked for years to come up with a system and deal they are happy with.
post #13 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

tftfy

1000% improvement and spot on.


I don't know why he would discuss Netflix as a shining example of opening up distribution.

1. Netflix streaming is missing a whole lot of movies
2. The minute they raised pricing and split off DVD Rental their stock tanked.
3. Even iTunes Movie pricing is too high. I've never ordered anything but a rental and
i'm a guy with 330 movies on the shelf.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #14 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

He means:

"In order for profits to survive there must be parity within the digital distribution markets"

There you have it... I would add that he probably means gross and extreme as adjectives for his profit also. Any distribution that the studios agree to that is profitable up front is profitable.

This guy mouths that they want competition and lower prices, but since they dictate price, availability and rights location availability, they can't be really concerned about Apple unless the guy really means that the prices Apple sells at are below their tremendous "Are you shitting me" level of profit. I guess whatever else is going on, Apple must be concerned with keeping prices low, otherwise this goofball would not be running his mouth

Misdirection and obfuscation seem to be the order of the day for these studio execs.
post #15 of 74
As other have pointed out, there are plenty of platforms for media owners to use to get their product to consumers. What really irks him is that, because Apple/itunes is the biggest game in town, the studios have to agree to Apple's terms in order to get access to Apple's user base.

What he really wants is for more platforms to become viable so that Apple will have less leverage during negotiations of licensing deals.
post #16 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

They've got to make money, too. If they don't then quality will suffer. The cheapest TV they can make are reality shows, that's part of why there's so many and they mostly suck. Movies will get worse, less original, and good indies will be harder to fund even when the economy recovers.

I think everything should be rentable through my Apple TV, at least moviewise. It's like a blockbuster in your house. As for TV, I think we've all been getting screwed on cable and it had better change soon or else they're in for some trouble.

You think movies are good now? We're doomed....
post #17 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

You think movies are good now? We're doomed....

True Grit was excellent.

Great films have always been rare.
post #18 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

They've got to make money, too. If they don't then quality will suffer. The cheapest TV they can make are reality shows, that's part of why there's so many and they mostly suck. Movies will get worse, less original, and good indies will be harder to fund even when the economy recovers.

Most of the best movies I have seen are made with the same amount of money they budget for food services on a blockbuster. Throwing money at a movie may make it profitable, but it won't make it good. I'd be happy to see more cheaply made films with great ideas and creativity and fewer formulaic and franchise sequels. Screw the studios. And screw Lang and the whores he rode in on.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
post #19 of 74
Apple may be a threat, but that's not Apple's fault. The competition has just been incapable of creating something that even comes close to Apple's offering.
post #20 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Has this executive not learned of the Internet?

Here's some quotes:

We believe that cross-platform is key to growing the digital transactions [movie] business, Lang told his audience in Cannes. We believe that all [the] different platforms can be complementary and co-exist together.

Apple is the strongest company in the music industry, and because there was not enough competition, and still to this day is not enough competition, as an industry it cant then influence, packaging, merchandising all the things that are vital, he said. As the movie business we have to be very cogniscant of that. Thats why we did our deal with Netflix, and why we also did our deal with Hulu. We want multiple players to be successful Its really important as an industry that we try to allow multiple players in markets around the world Our goal as an industry should be to have as many as possible, and may the best service win.

I think his quotes indicate that he has heard of the Internet. And some more stuff too.
post #21 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrobratt View Post

What he really wants is for more platforms to become viable so that Apple will have less leverage during negotiations of licensing deals.

True, many of his comments support your statement. If there's one thing that every Hollywood exec knows about Apple, it's that "They killed the music industry.... but they won't kill us".
post #22 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It just doesn't add up. Hulu and Netflix streaming aren't even the same kind of service, the business model is very different. I doubt those services are paying as much as Apple does for the most equivalent offering. I also doubt that Apple is preventing them from dealing with other services, which I'm pretty sure would be illegal. One of the lines even implies that Apple isn't doing enough for them, which contradicts the suggestion that Apple has too much control. If you want someone to nanny your product at their expense, then you're implicitly giving up control.

Perhaps that is the issue. The studios get one big check from Netflix to stream all of their movies. Good movies subsidize the bad. Apple on the other hand, rents/sells individual movies - and probably pays the studios for each rental or sale. There's no hiding how a bad movie might not be profitable. Some movies may not be generating any revenue. That might irk producers of those bad films.
post #23 of 74
You cannot blame free enterprise for naturally selecting a winner.

Apple succeeded because they built the proverbial better mousetrap. Now that that's done the Execs want to employ some good ole socialism and make everything "even"

Sorry...that's not making much sense and nor does it show vision. Pundits said iTunes Store wouldn't work because people wouldn't pay for something they could get for free.

A decade later its been proven largely because of Apple's efforts and now the Execs want to renegotiate?

I personally feel like the biggest threat to the movie industry is lack of quality content worth paying for. People are simply spending their money elsewhere.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #24 of 74
Ironically, until last December the largest shareholder of Miramax was Steve Jobs.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply
post #25 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrobratt View Post


What he really wants is for more platforms to become viable so that Apple will have less leverage during negotiations of licensing deals.

Bingo. And the reference to piracy is that the more legit channels there are, the lesser a problem it becomes. He learned lessons from the music industry.
post #26 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by stompy View Post

True, many of his comments support your statement. If there's one thing that every Hollywood exec knows about Apple, it's that "They killed the music industry.... but they won't kill us".

The issue is usually conceptualized as limited distribution being a major problem, and Apple, WRT the music industry, is dominant. Apple didn't kill the industry, but limited distribution choices are seen as bad for the industry. The limited distribution did little to counter piracy, and still does little.

There's a grain of truth there, but the issues are, of course, much more complex.
post #27 of 74
hmmm...let's see...

i stopped purchasing music when it started getting crappy. since having iTunes, i've purchased only a few albums/songs.

haven't even touched movies on iTunes.

maybe the movie industry should start making a quality product instead of the shit they're serving up.

oh yeah, i have a monthly streaming membership to neflix. it was fine for about a month. everything i'm interested in seeing is via dvd-through-the-mail. quite frankly, netflix's streaming service isn't really all that.
post #28 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Ironically, until last December the largest shareholder of Miramax was Steve Jobs.

Did he sell his position or did someone else acquire more?
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
post #29 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by iKol View Post

Add in Apple's refusal to add Blu-ray or HDMI I can see why.

Apple TV has an HDMI port so does the Mac mini. The Macbook range and iMacs have mini DP/thunderbolt which support adaptors to connect to HDMI displays and pass audio.

As for Blu Ray, it makes no difference to me. 95% of media I consume is digital and I have a PS3 for Blu Ray playback if I need it. It doesn't hurt Apples sales and as far as I can see they are actively phasing out optical drives across the Mac range. I honestly can't remember the last time I put an optical disc into my iMac.
post #30 of 74
There was/is lots of competition... the problem with most of them was they based their business model on 'free' music. Somehow, this didn't work as a business model. What Apple did was break the world into the concept of micro-transcations... .99 cents for a song, a few bucks for a movie... when the world was screaming for Napster, Limewire and the like to remain free.

Now, they make billions on apps, songs, and music - and ya, they take their cut, but everyone else is making money too.

You'd think the 'industry' would be happy that someone is getting users to pay for content...
post #31 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proximityeffect View Post

I don't believe Apple has any exclusivity with iTunes movies- I see the same movies available at Amazon, etc...
The only thing "hindering movie companies from distributing their catalogs" is their own ineptitude.

EXACTLY.

Apple isn't dominating because they're doing backhanded deals the way Microsoft did with Windows. Apple simply created a really simple platform to pair up with their really simple media players. Apple was doing "A buck for a song that'll play anywhere" while the rest of the industry was doing things like "$10 for a certain number of downloads that'll only play on our media player but maybe not on your computer and you lose them all the day you stop subscribing, not to mention that you lose any unused downloads at the end of the month, and..."

The movie studios need to make sure they think of the consumer first. If they make consumers happy, they'll make money. If they act greedy, consumers will get their content elsewhere. Until recently, if consumers wanted music, they either had to buy from Apple or steal. Remember when record labels didn't even want us importing our CDs? They acted like greedy pigs. They deserve to fail.

Sadly, it looks like the movie studios are learning the wrong lessons from the failures of record labels. And I'm not surprised.
post #32 of 74
With all the integration coming with OS5, the handwriting is on the wall for the movie industry and what this MIRAMAX executive sees portends great growth for Apple.

There just isn't a credible competitor who can keep pace with the constant innovation coming out of Cupertino. Just when phones seem near competitive... Siri comes along and moves the bar higher.

iPads... no competition.... with an update in the works on top of it.

Apple TV, it's a coming... so if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen..... HP sure got the message, along with many others
post #33 of 74
This guy is an idiot. iTunes does not dominate the movie distribution business by any stretch of the imagination. It sounds like he is saying "apple dominates the music business so therefore they dominate the movie business". There is no comparison. (And although there was no competition in the early days of online music, there are plenty today, but they don't offer what the public wants)

The true threat to online movies is Netflix, because they bundle so many movies for a low monthly price. It makes each individual movie seem very low cost. Apple on the other hand is forced to charge $5/movie rental, which makes the movies seem very valuable/costly.

And who did they make a deal with? Netflix, making their movie catalog less valuable... This guy is stupid.

If they want to bump up movie rentals, allow more than 24 hours to finish watching a movie for God's sake. With those ridiculous rental terms, you pretty much have to watch the entire movie all in one sitting.
post #34 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by iKol View Post

Add in Apple's refusal to add Blu-ray or HDMI I can see why.

???
BlueRay is a disc and HDMI is a device connection.
Perhaps you mean 1080p vs 720p?

1080 is gonna be about +4 times the file size of 720 and definitely not a 4x improvement in quality.
And it depends on the source. If the original is not recorded in 1080/HD, then there will be no quality gain, just a larger download.
post #35 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's domination of the digital media marketplace is more of a threat to movie companies than piracy, according to Miramax CEO Mike Lang.

Apple's domination is a threat to movie distributors, but not to the industry. Apple gets rid of the middle men, who are unnecessary in Internet distribution. In music, this has meant that artists can distribute their works directly on iTunes, without signing with a record company. They only need to pay middle men who actually add value. For other media, such as books and magazines, Apple has insisted that they get a cut if it's distributed through iOS. This is very bad for companies that exist only to distribute these media, since they are unnecessary in this picture.

Exactly the same thing is true in the movie industry. Obviously Apple has to make sure the movie producers stay healthy so it has content to sell, and it wants to keep its customers happy, so they buy devices: it must balance the interests on both sides. Apple has no interest in putting anyone out of business other than the middlemen. Miramax, which distributes independent and foreign films, is a middle man.
post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

He means: "In order for profits to survive there must be parity within the digital distribution markets"

Bang on.

What a prick. Are HMV and Tower threats as well?

http://www.mafiaa.org/


Quote:
Originally Posted by stompy View Post

If there's one thing that every Hollywood exec knows about Apple, it's that "They killed the music industry.... but they won't kill us".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondYourFrontDoor View Post

You'd think the 'industry' would be happy that someone is getting users to pay for content...

What a moroon.
post #37 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

And it depends on the source. If the original is not recorded in 1080/HD, then there will be no quality gain, just a larger download.

Since we are talking about movies, the majority of them would have been on film, so will be recording in excess of 1080
post #38 of 74
Great. Cheers Lang.

He don't mind we go to the piracy route. Cheaper for us, less threat to them. Work both ways.

Had iTunes not exist, there will be multiple shops people need to go to and they all will be incompatible with each others and to multiple devices. Not to mention multiple standards and file formats. Greed is what they are. Otherwise all movies and albums will be available everywhere at the same price range and at the same time. Why do we need multiple licences, agreements and availability discrepancies all over the world?

So they can squeeze out every penny they can get? Piracy it is then.
post #39 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Did he sell his position or did someone else acquire more?

Neither. Steve Jobs was an indirect shareholder through his Disney shares, Disney owned Miramax and they sold it last year.
post #40 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Most of the best movies I have seen are made with the same amount of money they budget for food services on a blockbuster. Throwing money at a movie may make it profitable, but it won't make it good. I'd be happy to see more cheaply made films with great ideas and creativity and fewer formulaic and franchise sequels. Screw the studios.

Hey, we got us enough here for a posse!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPod + iTunes + AppleTV
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Miramax CEO says Apple a bigger threat to movie industry than piracy