Unlocked iPhone 4S coming in November, won't work with CDMA carriers - Page 2

Except for one problem.. Apple will not unlock your iPhone if it is locked to AT&T. AT&T will not unlock your iPhone if it is locked to AT&T. An AT&T iPhone will only work with AT&T. If you ever used international roaming you will know that a few minutes of talk time (local or international) is so expensive that it is more feasible to pay for an unlocked iPhone and use local carriers instead of roaming.

I don't think this is accurate. This is the exact same verbiage on the iPhone 4 and even keeps referring to the iPhone 4 and not iPhone 4S.

"The unlocked iPhone works only on supported GSM networks, such as AT&T in the U.S. When you travel internationally, you can also use a micro-SIM card from a local GSM carrier. The unlocked iPhone 4 will not work with CDMA carriers such as Verizon Wireless or Sprint."

I think they just copy and pasted it and a more accurate update will be coming later. We will see.

Yes. You can turn off cellular data under iOS network setting.

What about roaming ?

I have an iPhone 4 on T-Mobile (Netherlands), when visiting the US it means i can only roam using AT&T since they use GSM on the same frequencies as the civilized world. Since the 4S also has CDMA does this mean I can roam using CDMA networks ? Since I can roam on networks I'm not subscribed to when abroad I would expect it to behave the same on CDMA even if I'm not a subscriber.

Can you explain this a little more. Will Apple stores stock the iPhone 4s in 4 versions - AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, and GSM unlocked? Or, is it just one version that is either left unlocked, or "prepared" for the carrier contract you pick?

I have researched this on Apple website. Basically, when you buy an iPhone 4S unlocked you will not be able to use it with CDMA networks. This is clearly stated in their unlocked iPhone section:


I was hoping with an unlocked iPhone 4S we will have the ability to switch between CDMA and GSM carriers, at least in the States. But that will not happen. It doesn't matter for me anyway because Verizon and Sprint sucks where I live.

This is all a bit complicated.

So: A cdma VZ or Sprint phone can get the gsm slot unlocked after 30 - 60 days and you can use it as a world phone yes?

Will an unlocked (or locked) gsm phone be able to be turned into a cdma network phone if you want?

Can you use a unlocked gsm phone on ATT without a data plan? The data plan is 30 a month, the subsidy for a contract phone is 450, about 15 months of data plan depending on the tier.

How difficult is it to unlock a gsm ATT phone and then reuse / relock it when you return?

Yes - its the site thats not been updated - its the same verbage.

Yeah, I noticed this is well. But all the other battery stats seem to be better or at least the same. Seems like the combination of the new processor, world-mode chip, and intelligent switching antennae are just as efficient in use, but don't power down to the lower levels that the iPhone 4's chips can.

The U.K. site also says that the unlocked 4s will not work on CDMA networks.

According to the specs Apple released, battery life will not be decreasing except for standby time (which is not an issue for the moderate to heavy users you're talking about) and WiFi internet use. All other battery life projections are noticeably better for the 4S.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7...parison-chart/


So you have to jailbreak the phone before you go overseas and then restore it when you return. Saving $400 would be worth that much inconvenience - at least for me.

That would be my assumption. They would certainly have to have at least 3, for each carrier. I'm not sure if they carry unlocked in stores (felt like it was online) Either way it's not coming till November anyway. The actual hardware components are all the same. It's the firmware that varies.

That's kind of disappointing that you can't use it on one of our prepaid carriers like Virgin Mobile or Cricket. I guess if you travel internationally it might be worth not having to jailbreak and unlock, or for AT&T customers this path makes more sense if you're not eligible for an upgrade for a while. I wonder if it will still only be EDGE on T-Mobile.

Yes, since it doesn't support the 1700MHz 3G band. I'm told that if you have Straight Talk with a Nokia e71 that the SIM will support 3G on the unlocked iPhone but can't confirm that.

Finally an unlocked world* iPhone!


* Does not apply to T-Mobile USA 3G service or any US-based CDMA service.

1) For all the times I've seen internet petition and soapbox grandstanding over Apple not supporting stupid crap like matte displays this is an issue that needs to be dealt with in the US. Hopefully this new quasi-world mode iPhone 4S will make lawmakers see just how fractured and silly the carrier locking is in the US. I take no issue with locking a phone whilst on contract but I should be able to get the vendor and/or carrier to unlock my device once my contract is fulfilled.

2) So the Verizon and Sprint iPhones will have all four GSM '2G' bands unlocked and all but the UMTS '3G' bands used in the US unlocked, by default?

3) I really hope the SW-based, SIM card-less iPhone comes next year. Nothing would be as efficient than having virtual SIMs in your device at all times. If you jump from country to county you don't need to fiddle with little plastic chips and paperclip, but simply input your passcode and switch the country and carrier in Settings. Even better would have it prompt you for a switch of virtual SIM switch if it detects you're in a new country and you have a vSIM on the ready.




I'm thinking Apple is putting all the components in each model now so there will be a single HW version, not two. It's just the baseband that is locking out certain cellular features for different carrier destinations.



It seems shitty at first glance but it might be to keep people from buying up the lot of these pre-paid devices which I'm all for.



You get 1 hour more of '3G' talk time and 1 hour fewer of data over WiFi.

Based on the (assumed) Qualcomm chipset MDM6600 I would have thought those would be reversed. Glad to see that isn't the case.

Nah Apple is to lazy to program that, they will probably just leave everything as is. Thats probably why they aren't allowing the unlock of the CDMA, to much programing and not enough carriers.

Wow, some of you guys are totally missing what some of the people are asking. Yes we understand, there is no such thing as an unlocked CDMA phone. But there is such thing as a unlocked CDMA world phone.

THE REAL QUESTION IS:

Will the GSM side of the Verizon & Sprint iPhone 4S be unlocked, or have the capability of being unlocked by the carrier? Even if you have to be on contract with them for 30 days, will they allow you to contact them and have it unlocked? AT&T, so far, will not unlock under any circumstances, but Verizon and Spring just might.

AFAIK, if they DO, you will be able to use that phone on local US GSM carriers as well (AT&T and T-Mobile).

Are we sure it wont work with T-mobile 3G? I have to imagine that someone else in the world is using the same frequency for 3G. Maybe they built it in for future use *crosses fingers* Maybe unicorns are real?

World isn't' meant to be taken literally because you can't use such a device at the center of the Earth or the South Pole or floating on raft 500 miles from the nearest landmass. However, in the case of T-Mobile it's a moot point ince T-Mobile's coverage area is also well covered by AT&T, Sprint and Verizon.

Unless the FCC filing comes back and says it's a pentaband UMTS phone hat includes the 1700MHz band then it's a no go.

Even if the baseband processor chip supports the 1700MHz AWS band, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll work on T-Mobile USA. They still need to include a power amp for the frequency (which implies cost and real estate).

Remember, previous versions of the iPhone actually had circuitry that supported FM radio, however Apple never included the ancillary electronics to support FM radio reception.

First off never going to happen politically, there are too many telco lobbyists. They like the division. The industry is far bigger, and older than the iPhone 4s, it's not that important in the big picture to have lawmakers see anything. The issue has just as clearly been seen in Blackberries for years, look how many 8300 Curve Models were needed. And you don't have to wait that long. As I mentioned earlier Verizon will unlock the SIM slots for free once you get beyond the possible return window 30-60 days. In the bigger picture it's not that simple. You have different cellular technologies in use in different frequencies. There is no panacea to unite them all. In fact it will only get worse as each carrier is using LTE in a different frequency range.



You would be correct, that's how it works for all other world phones.


Carriers will never allow this to be that simple unfortunately. I think that's why as much as we've heard about it, it hasn't happened yet. I also wonder how good the security would be before hackers start spoofing and cloning that system.

Yeah, CDMA devices need to be activated for the carrier and if they weren't originally provisioned for the carrier, the MEID will not be accepted by the system (no matter how much hacking you do). You could in theory use the MEID of another Verizon phone and hack that into your iPhone 4S, but that's illegal (as having one phone pretending to be another would wreak havoc on a network if they were both on at the same time).

However, the upside to this is that the LTE standard requires all subscriber information to be stored in SIM cards like with GSM instead of the phone itself, which means you should be able to hot-swap all you want without any problems. Plus, Sprint just announced they are going LTE, and will also be required to use SIM cards like Verizon does currently with their LTE phones and devices.

Verizon 4G SIM support page: http://support.verizonwireless.com/f..._sim_card.html

I think you may have just answered your own question with your last statement. I doubt Verizon or Sprint want you to take what they see as their phone, unlock it, cancel your plan, and use it contract free on AT&T

Figure this: The iPhone 4S 16GB costs $199 on contract, $649 off. Verizon and Sprint's ETF is $350 with $5 deduction each month. After 30 days, say you're allowed to completely unlock your phone. Since you passed the first month, your ETF is now $345. You cancel your contract with the carrier. $199 initial contract price + $345 ETF = $544, so you just got a completely unlocked iPhone for $100 less than you would have outright, and the carrier no longer gets the rest of your over $2000 in contract fees.

Sounds like CDMA is big opportunity for the Unlock/Jailbreak community...

I think the problem is with Verizon not going to activate your phone without you signing up for a 2 year contract at the same time.

Not really. It doesn't matter if it's "unlocked" if the carrier won't let you use the device. It's not like you can just swap SIMs and be in bed with someone else.

Jailbreaking does not mean unlock. Also depending on jailbreak to unlock you iPhone 4S means you are most likely to have hold off update and go through the jailbreak processes every time you restart your iPhone 4/4S. Good luck with that if you are on vacation. I don't want to carry my laptop every time I travel. I'd rather pay $400 and have a working iPhone.

So big it's never been hacked, yet GSM has been numerous times. CDMA may not be a lot of things, but it's always done well on the security front.

One thing, Sprint historically UNLOCKED their world phones. Verizon doesnt

Um..isn't that completely illegal?

Yep. Yep. Gonna say uh, yep.

At least, if National Treasure 2 (and common sense) taught me anything.

And Apple would need to do a credit check why now?

How exactly are you planning to unlock it on demand? Except for with the very earliest iOS4 versions, the iP4 has been completely blocked from exploit unlocks, except using the gevey SIM.

You are right though, for most americans, there isn't much benefit to getting an unlocked unit unless the travel a lot. For me in Canada, I had my iP4 unlocked by Apple so I can sell it for more money, since it will work with 3 national carriers and their 3 subsidiaries, the resale value goes up a lot. Since the US only really has AT&T a a fully compatible, national carrier, unlocks don't give as much benefit.

If one does buy an unlocked unit, chances are that some smaller CDMA carriers, like Cricket, will activate them on their networks.

I wonder the same thing, and was wondering if anyone can confirm whether Sprint or Verizon definitely unlocks world mode devices after a certain amount of time has elapsed. Also, I really don't understand why the factory-unlocked model can't be activated on CDMA carriers at all considering Sprint had some sort of settlement about subscribers being able to do what they will on their devices:

As part of a settlement in 2007, Sprint committed to allowing customers out-of-contract to take their devices with them to other CDMA carriers. Sprint also agreed to accept foreign CDMA devices from other carriers, but has failed to do so.
It is not completely clear if Sprints shutdown of Libertys BYOD program is a violation of the 2007 settlement. Sprint owns the network behind Liberty Wireless, and can impose restrictions on what plans Sprint devices can be used on.

I can't find the original article I stumbled across years ago but this link did quote a report that mentions it: http://www.prepaidreviews.com/blog/l...program-35971/


As mentioned above, I believe this has something to do with the large number of foreigners swarming Apple launches to buy up inventory meant for local distribution for later export. A credit check would at least stop tourists who do not have SSN/TINs from purchasing all the unlocked iPhones. Of course, those who are really determined will find ways around this but I think it'll have to involve paying an American to purchase for them. Thus, increasing their cost and mitigating any cost differential between the MSRP here and their local MSRP (which often translate to more when converter into USD).

Just to confirm, I did just that having pre-ordered the iPhone 4S unlocked from Apple.ca when they went live after midnight last night. Should arrive no later than October 14th. We even had the last iPhone available as unlocked from launch date.

Good to know, thanks. Hopefully Verizon will continue that practice with the 4S. I keep an old unlocked GSM phone around for when I travel because my primary phone was either locked (ATT) or incompatible (Verizon).

Are you able to select which connection to use if both are available? Despite what many think, there are in fact other countries where you can roam with a Verizon CDMA phone. Not many, but there are a handful. Hopefully in those cases it doesn't try to make you roam on your Verizon number! $$$

Verizon also announced in 2007 that they would open their network to any CDMA device that was qualified in their labs as being compatible with their network. "Any app, any device" was what they touted.

There is no technical reason for any CDMA capable device from working on either Sprint or Verizon. CDMA is sort of the opposite of GSM in terms of locking. With GSM, the devices are locked to accept only certain carrier's SIMs, but any device that can accept the SIM can get on the network. With CDMA, it is the network that is locked, so only devices that are 'registered' by the carrier are allowed. There is nothing preventing them from allowing any and all CDMA devices on their network, other than them denying access to any device ESN not on their list. Given Sprint agreed to this as a settlement and Verizon announced a policy to allow it, it is strange that they are now reneging.

If they were to both honour their obligations and policies, then any iPhone4S, whether purchased unlocked and full price or locked and on carrier subsidy from AT&T or other GSM carrier should be allowed on either Sprint or Verizon. I wonder if Apple agreed to implement some sort of firmware lock where CDMA is disabled if the phone activates with a SIM. That way Sprint and Verizon would be able to say it's not their fault.