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Google, T-Mobile petition ITC to allow Android to freely infringe Apple's iOS - Page 3

post #81 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuniverse View Post



Yes, twins.

That's a flawed comparison. You're using one manfacturer's one to represent the entire Android community. Why couldn't you use an HTC phone screen shot? Oh, right that defeats the argument entirely. And twins is an exact copy....but I don't see an Android market icon on ANY iOS device. Nor do I see allshare. Also, why can't you use a more recent iteration of the Galaxy S....like the Galaxy SII? Also, the iPhone doesn't have captacative buttons.
post #82 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Can you tell me just 3 things Apple has done "wrong" in the past 5 years?

Not necessarily my opinion, but people didn't like:

1. The removal of FireWire on the MacBook in 2008 (resulting in a 1600+ user reply thread):
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._firewire.html

2. Discontinuation of the Xserve
(http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...n_31_2011.html

3. FCPX
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...essionals.html
Android seems to be an illiterate product, as they only have numbers to show for.
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post #83 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuniverse View Post



Yes, twins.

so that's Android huh? I swear that's touchwhiz...and the App Drawer of TouchWhiz to boot.

(the same TouchWhiz even Android fans complained about being too iOS like -_-)
post #84 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Not necessarily my opinion, but people didn't like:

1. The removal of FireWire on the MacBook in 2008 (resulting in a 1600+ user reply thread):
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._firewire.html

2. Discontinuation of the Xserve
(http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...n_31_2011.html

3. FCPX
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...essionals.html

hmmm, that was a stupid question in retrospect considering I knew people had issues with those three things. lol.
post #85 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, yes, i'm sure you'd be very happy if no one pointed out what a weasilly liar you are. Apparently you can't construct a single sentence without misrepresenting facts.

no, you can counteract my points with counterpoints however often you want. It's the name calling I cannot stand.
post #86 of 119
Since I still have my Vibrant....once the iPhone 4S arrives...I'm gonna put on some love music on (would "Sexual Healing" be appropriate?), close the bedroom door and see what happens.
post #87 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

Also, why can't you use a more recent iteration of the Galaxy S....like the Galaxy SII?

Ok, here's one of the Galaxy S II. It's not twins, but it is a similar clone of the iPhone UI in one specific aspect. I bet Apple has an issue with Samsung making it look this way exactly, hence the lawsuit. And the subsequent name-calling.

They even copied the metal bezel around iPhone 4. They just made it black instead of silver. Also, the icons are noticeably similar as well. Contacts, Phone, Music Hub, wow, those look similar, where have I seen those before? They didn't even bother to change the color of the background of the icons.
post #88 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Yeah that's a bit Orwellian. Keep your hands of my Droid, thanks. It can do tons of stuff even iPhone 4S with iOS can NOT do. Stuff I like. Like Flash. I can do things you are not allowed to do because Apple said so. Freedom of the market..what? How is yanking an open source OS from the market freedom of the market?

First of all, Google is trying to have their cake and eat it too. On the one hand, they pat themselves on the back at keynotes and say that they are the top platform. Yet, on the other hand, they are trying to make Apple out to be the top dog and themselves out to be the underdogs in the market. Google can't have it both ways.

Also, I don't care if Android is an open-source OS. It doesn't change the fact that certain technologies may be infringing on someone else's intellectual property. It's not okay to rip off someone's IP and give it away under the guise of an open-source license.

Google's argument sounds like this: "Listen ITC, we know Goliath has rights, but he's just too powerful. If you were to protect his rights, he would run roughshod over everybody else. So in the interest of the pubic, you should lock him up and throw away the key."
post #89 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

no, you can counteract my points with counterpoints however often you want. It's the name calling I cannot stand.

See, the problem there is that you're very prone to respond to posts with some variant on "LOL fan boys are pathetic" or "You people make me laugh" or "this forum is full of fools." etc.

I guess you figure you're being discreet because you don't address people directly, but name calling is name calling. In fact, i would say constant appeals to how "you people" or "fanboys" or "Apple people" or "this forum" is foolish and easily duped is far worse than simply taking an individual poster to task, because it erodes the general civility and sense of community that a board like this ideally exhibits.

Worse still, hiding behind generalized insults while bemoaning same if anyone takes you on directly is cowardly. If you don't like being called a weasel, either lay off the "Ha ha I'm amused by the losers" shit or deal with people directly so they can respond.

And yes, I've singled you out (as I'm sure you'll get cranky about) because you seem like a pretty bright guy (I don't even bother with the throng of "LOL Apple sux" lads that we seem to never be rid of). You claim to be refuting disinformation, but that's self aggrandizing bullshit. Calling people fanboys and rolling your eyes and sighing heavily is just irritating and adds nothing to the thread beyond inflaming attitudes. Unless that's what you want, you could bring far more to the boards by just making your observations on the relative merits of various technologies without the snark.
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post #90 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Ok, here's one of the Galaxy S II. It's not twins, but it is a similar clone of the iPhone UI in one specific aspect. I bet Apple has an issue with Samsung making it look this way exactly, hence the lawsuit. And the subsequent name-calling.

They even copied the metal bezel around iPhone 4. They just made it black instead of silver. Also, the icons are noticeably similar as well. Contacts, Phone, Music Hub, wow, those look similar, where have I seen those before? They didn't even bother to change the color of the background of the icons.

Okay, now that's a better argument that they made it more similar. But they did change it some on the Galaxy SII (Touchwiz 4.0/App drawer has your wallpaper instead of black).

The issue I have is everyone's attacking Samsung when I've seen people do MORE blantant copying (LG's icons look closer to iPhone).

Then again, if Apple decided to come out with a TV...I can see them taking cues from Samsung.

Damn, why can't Apple and Samsung just COMBINED to make one SUPER POWER? MUHAHAHHAH!
post #91 of 119
I hate anything on Android that's not on Touchwiz. Especially HTC's Sense (I've gotten into a few argumetns with HTC fanbois). I like simple click stuff. Not all these fancy swyping!
post #92 of 119
I am still waiting for jragosta to answer the twin os issue.
Where is she/he?
post #93 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

See, the problem there is that you're very prone to respond to posts with some variant on "LOL fan boys are pathetic" or "You people make me laugh" or "this forum is full of fools." etc.

I guess you figure you're being discreet because you don't address people directly, but name calling is name calling. In fact, i would say constant appeals to how "you people" or "fanboys" or "Apple people" or "this forum" is foolish and easily duped is far worse than simply taking an individual poster to task, because it erodes the general civility and sense of community that a board like this ideally exhibits.

Worse still, hiding behind generalized insults while bemoaning same if anyone takes you on directly is cowardly. If you don't like being called a weasel, either lay off the "Ha ha I'm amused by the losers" shit or deal with people directly so they can respond.

And yes, I've singled you out (as I'm sure you'll get cranky about) because you seem like a pretty bright guy (I don't even bother with the throng of "LOL Apple sux" lads that we seem to never be rid of). You claim to be refuting disinformation, but that's self aggrandizing bullshit. Calling people fanboys and rolling your eyes and sighing heavily is just irritating and adds nothing to the thread beyond inflaming attitudes. Unless that's what you want, you could bring far more to the boards by just making your observations on the relative merits of various technologies without the snark.

Pay attention to what I respond to. I never make the first comment. Always reactionary. Plus I've made it quite clear that an Apple fan isn't the same as a fanatic just as a Christian isn't a fundamentalist.

Besides you are more vile towards anyone who doesn't worship Apple than I will ever be to apple fans. Ever.
post #94 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Ok, here's one of the Galaxy S II. It's not twins, but it is a similar clone of the iPhone UI in one specific aspect. I bet Apple has an issue with Samsung making it look this way exactly, hence the lawsuit. And the subsequent name-calling.

They even copied the metal bezel around iPhone 4. They just made it black instead of silver. Also, the icons are noticeably similar as well. Contacts, Phone, Music Hub, wow, those look similar, where have I seen those before? They didn't even bother to change the color of the background of the icons.

Still the app drawer -_-

Hey you can have someone place the icons on the screen in grid pattern too. Or download a third party launcher and find a fan made iPhone skin and then boom...clone.

Edit: not sure why I'm arguing as touchwhiz is inspired by iOS. My argument goes to those who say Android is an iOS clone which is shocking considering they don't look alike o.O

Newer touchwhiz isn't as iOS like as it was.

Also Apple doesn't own metal around phones. It's been done before.
post #95 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

I am still waiting for jragosta to answer the twin os issue.
Where is she/he?

What twin OS issue? And what makes you think that I care what you are waiting for?
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post #96 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

That's a flawed comparison. You're using one manfacturer's one to represent the entire Android community. Why couldn't you use an HTC phone screen shot? Oh, right that defeats the argument entirely. And twins is an exact copy....but I don't see an Android market icon on ANY iOS device. Nor do I see allshare. Also, why can't you use a more recent iteration of the Galaxy S....like the Galaxy SII? Also, the iPhone doesn't have captacative buttons.

Here's a link to a picture on Samsung's site:-



Besides, the court cases involve the similarities rather than the differences.
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post #97 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Here's a link to a picture on Samsung's site:-



Besides, the court cases involve the similarities rather than the differences.

Come to think of that pic reminds me of the LG Chocolate. OH, THE GOOD 'OL DAYS!
post #98 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

Come to think of that pic reminds me of the LG Chocolate. OH, THE GOOD 'OL DAYS!

Ah, remember when the RAZR was new? It was THE phone. All sorts of fanciness and features. Then the Chocolate came out and it had a TOUCHSCREEN. I mean, gasp, man. It's the FUTURE(ish).

Good times, good times.

Amazing how relative "good" looks nowadays, huh?

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post #99 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Ah, remember when the RAZR was new? It was THE phone. All sorts of fanciness and features. Then the Chocolate came out and it had a TOUCHSCREEN. I mean, gasp, man. It's the FUTURE(ish).

Good times, good times.

Amazing how relative "good" looks nowadays, huh?

Lolz. I remeber wanting the RAZR so badly....just a couple years ago. Now that phone is so DATED. Wow.

I can usually tell how old a movie is now just by the phones they use!
post #100 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

Lolz. I remeber wanting the RAZR so badly....just a couple years ago. Now that phone is so DATED. Wow.

I can usually tell how old a movie is now just by the phones they use!

Lol. I never wanted the razr or any Motorola phone. The thinness was cool but the buttons and ui sucked. Motorola always sucked at ui. The followup razresque phones were hideous too.
post #101 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

Come to think of that pic reminds me of the LG Chocolate. OH, THE GOOD 'OL DAYS!

Really?

The one released AFTER the iPhone.



I'm not seeing it.

Chalk and cheese.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...=IQFRRS#x0y594
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post #102 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Really?

The one released AFTER the iPhone.



I'm not seeing it.

Chalk and cheese.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...=IQFRRS#x0y594

You're not seeing what? Did anyone claim that THAT phone was a copy of the iPhone?

I don't think that ANYONE has claimed that EVERY phone that came out after the iPhone was a copy. But the fact that one phone is different doesn't mean that none of the phones are copies. It does, however, prove that it IS possible to make a phone that looks different than the iPhone - which effectively negates the "but there's only one way to make a phone" argument.
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post #103 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You're not seeing what? Did anyone claim that THAT phone was a copy of the iPhone?

I don't think that ANYONE has claimed that EVERY phone that came out after the iPhone was a copy. But the fact that one phone is different doesn't mean that none of the phones are copies. It does, however, prove that it IS possible to make a phone that looks different than the iPhone - which effectively negates the "but there's only one way to make a phone" argument.

What are you and hill on about?

He was just saying it reminds him of it (that's allowed right?) More than the iPhone.

Also I don't give a damn of the iPhone was the first icon based os phone (it wasn't) no one should have a monopoly on icon grids.

However Samsung touchwhiz is too inspired by iOS. No real Android fan with a brain disputes that.

The "only one way" strawman you alluded to pertains to the tab and the injunction due to it's similarity to a drawing of a non existent product that shares a form factor with many pre iPad tablets.
post #104 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

First of all google did not copy iOS it is really sad some people are to ignorant to understand that. First of all the way the two OSs operate is totally different. Google uses a virtual machine called Dalvic very similar to java in order to interact with the soft ware and the hardware. iOS does not use a virtual machine to interact with software and hardware it is more direct on soft ware communicates with the machine language.

The next thing that is completely different about the OSs is the user interface. iOS goes the way of have no home screen and having the user doing everything directly from the app drawl. Android however does it a differently. Android does it similar to how Blackberry OS and Windows mobile have done it for years. Android has an App drawl that all the apps are placed in. Then it has a seperate homescreen that the user interacts with. this home screen contains the shortcut to applications and widgets this is similar to those previous OSs.

What happened was Android was being developed to compete with the then current heavy weights of the industry and was taking the best things from those OSs and makign android with it. At that time smartphones where keyboard based. Then the iPhone was Released and the demand for smartphones shifted. People did not want the keyboard based any more so as demand shifted so did did the androids offerings. Instead of offering an OS that would not even be desirable to consumers android was made touch orientated and DID COPY MULTITOUCH AND PINCH TO ZOOM however most of the things in the Os where virtually the same. Android being touch based does not make it an iOS copy. Having the grid of Icons is not because that was around far before iOS. If you use them both you will see the differences are vast.

Uh, what's an "App drawl"?

You are the ignorant one because you cannot see the difference between patents and trade dress.

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post #105 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Here's a link to a picture on Samsung's site:-



Besides, the court cases involve the similarities rather than the differences.

The case is more than just about comparing photographs. But ... I was in a store today with the Samsung Galaxy SII in between a HTC and a LG Android phone. The three of them, when turned off, are indiscernible from 5 ft away (even though the sizes are slightly different).

It's fascinating how this shakes out. At the same time, it's silly to debate it so passionately here since no one is qualified to argue intelligently.
post #106 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

hmmm, that was a stupid question in retrospect considering I knew people had issues with those three things. lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Not necessarily my opinion, but people didn't like:

1. The removal of FireWire on the MacBook in 2008 (resulting in a 1600+ user reply thread):
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._firewire.html

2. Discontinuation of the Xserve
(http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...n_31_2011.html

3. FCPX
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...essionals.html

Forsaking Firewire, discontinuing Xserve may well be sound business decisions, despite incurring some customer wrath. One of Apple's tenets is that the customer does not know best. They have been proven right on this again and again.

FCPX may be a different story. As is Ping.
post #107 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

Uh, what's an "App drawl"?

You are the ignorant one because you cannot see the difference between patents and trade dress.

With all due respect, design patents and trade dress are in fact highly related. Consequently, emphasizing the *difference* between patents and trade dress as a means to attack someone does not make sense.
post #108 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

Uh, what's an "App drawl"?

I believe it's a reference to how Tim Cook talks about apps.
post #109 of 119
Here's a thought.

Apple realizes that the future is not in hardware. While there is growth and opportunity, the real future is in software, the cloud, apps, subscriptions, streaming data, Apple TV. So fast forward for a minute.......Apple wins their bans on the Asian hardware manufacturers running Android. They have few choices - 1)stop selling; not a viable option 2) dramatically redesign their smartphones to something very different to an iPhone look-a-like. this will take time, even years and they may never be able to get back into the game 3) agree to run iOS on all their phones and become part of the Apple ecosystem and abandon Google.

Could this be the main reason Google bought Motorola; did they see this in the cards???

What if all those Android phones became "iPhones" buying iTunes and 100MM's of apps from the Apple store, storing their data on iCloud and paying every year to do this.

Watch out Google!!! Apple's got your number.
post #110 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Yeah that's a bit Orwellian. Keep your hands of my Droid, thanks. It can do tons of stuff even iPhone 4S with iOS can NOT do. Stuff I like. Like Flash. I can do things you are not allowed to do because Apple said so. Freedom of the market..what? How is yanking an open source OS from the market freedom of the market?

The flash debate is over ... haven't you heard? Flash is dead on mobile devices. That's funny that you still consider Flash a desireable "feature". I just returned from vacation. But, unless things have changed dramatically while I was away, Flash on a mobile device is not a feature nor desirable on ANY mobile platform.
post #111 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcferr View Post

Here's a thought.

Apple realizes that the future is not in hardware. While there is growth and opportunity, the real future is in software, the cloud, apps, subscriptions, streaming data, Apple TV..

Says who?

Apple is selling an ecosystem - hardware, software, and content combined. All three are important, but most of their REVENUE comes from hardware. Software and content serve to get people to spend their money on hardware.
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post #112 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcferr View Post

Here's a thought.

Apple realizes that the future is not in hardware. While there is growth and opportunity, the real future is in software, the cloud, apps, subscriptions, streaming data, Apple TV. So fast forward for a minute.......Apple wins their bans on the Asian hardware manufacturers running Android. They have few choices - 1)stop selling; not a viable option 2) dramatically redesign their smartphones to something very different to an iPhone look-a-like. this will take time, even years and they may never be able to get back into the game 3) agree to run iOS on all their phones and become part of the Apple ecosystem and abandon Google.

Could this be the main reason Google bought Motorola; did they see this in the cards???

What if all those Android phones became "iPhones" buying iTunes and 100MM's of apps from the Apple store, storing their data on iCloud and paying every year to do this.

Watch out Google!!! Apple's got your number.

You don't pay attention to whats going on do you. Apple is just as likely to license out iOS as they are to license out MacOs Apple is a HARDWARE company. They make no money off of iOS. They make money off of people buying the iPhone for iOS. Think of iOS as the cheese on the string. No one is really interested in a string but put some good cheese on it and they will be grabbing on that string.

Second WTF is a iPhone look a like is this one



or maybe this one ...



Now that I look at it I could never tell the difference between those and this

post #113 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMcNerd View Post

The flash debate is over ... haven't you heard? Flash is dead on mobile devices. That's funny that you still consider Flash a desireable "feature". I just returned from vacation. But, unless things have changed dramatically while I was away, Flash on a mobile device is not a feature nor desirable on ANY mobile platform.

Everytime time I go to a flashy pron, it redirects me. In fact, half of the websites I got to redirect me to their mobile version. Flash is worthless if I can't get to a site that uses it.
post #114 of 119
Guess they should have thought about all of this before they ripped off Apple's IP.

Maybe Google should drop Android, buy WebOS and get back to work (keep the Android name, but change the guts).

Amazingly enough, it looks like WP7 is an example that it's possible to come up with a mobile OS without ripping off someone else's patents.

I know the devil is in the details, but overall, it appears that iOS, WebOS, whatever Blackberry has, and WP7 are all unique, and Android is the only one involved in theft.
post #115 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

Guess they should have thought about all of this before they ripped off Apple's IP.

Maybe Google should drop Android, buy WebOS and get back to work (keep the Android name, but change the guts).

Amazingly enough, it looks like WP7 is an example that it's possible to come up with a mobile OS without ripping off someone else's patents.

I know the devil is in the details, but overall, it appears that iOS, WebOS, whatever Blackberry has, and WP7 are all unique, and Android is the only one involved in theft.

Then again look at the sales of Windows Phone 7. PAPAPAPOW!
post #116 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

First of all google did not copy iOS it is really sad some people are to ignorant to understand that. First of all the way the two OSs operate is totally different. Google uses a virtual machine called Dalvic very similar to java in order to interact with the soft ware and the hardware. iOS does not use a virtual machine to interact with software and hardware it is more direct on soft ware communicates with the machine language.

The next thing that is completely different about the OSs is the user interface. iOS goes the way of have no home screen and having the user doing everything directly from the app drawl. Android however does it a differently. Android does it similar to how Blackberry OS and Windows mobile have done it for years. Android has an App drawl that all the apps are placed in. Then it has a seperate homescreen that the user interacts with. this home screen contains the shortcut to applications and widgets this is similar to those previous OSs.

What happened was Android was being developed to compete with the then current heavy weights of the industry and was taking the best things from those OSs and makign android with it. At that time smartphones where keyboard based. Then the iPhone was Released and the demand for smartphones shifted. People did not want the keyboard based any more so as demand shifted so did did the androids offerings. Instead of offering an OS that would not even be desirable to consumers android was made touch orientated and DID COPY MULTITOUCH AND PINCH TO ZOOM however most of the things in the Os where virtually the same. Android being touch based does not make it an iOS copy. Having the grid of Icons is not because that was around far before iOS. If you use them both you will see the differences are vast.

You do realize the lawsuits are not about how different Android is from iOS, the lawsuits are about the parts of iOS that HTC, Samsung, et. al. did steal from Apple. If the infringing parts were removed, the lawsuits would go away.
post #117 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

You do realize the lawsuits are not about how different Android is from iOS, the lawsuits are about the parts of iOS that HTC, Samsung, et. al. did steal from Apple. If the infringing parts were removed, the lawsuits would go away.

so then you retract your post above this one then?
post #118 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

Guess they should have thought about all of this before they ripped off Apple's IP.

Maybe Google should drop Android, buy WebOS and get back to work (keep the Android name, but change the guts).

Amazingly enough, it looks like WP7 is an example that it's possible to come up with a mobile OS without ripping off someone else's patents.

I know the devil is in the details, but overall, it appears that iOS, WebOS, whatever Blackberry has, and WP7 are all unique, and Android is the only one involved in theft.

and IP infringement isn't theft.
post #119 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMcNerd View Post

The flash debate is over ... haven't you heard? Flash is dead on mobile devices. That's funny that you still consider Flash a desireable "feature". I just returned from vacation. But, unless things have changed dramatically while I was away, Flash on a mobile device is not a feature nor desirable on ANY mobile platform.

It's more about having the option to view it.

Flash is far from dead. Whether anyone likes it or not. I myself prefer HTML5 over flash, but look at most web application and web video that isn't currently on youtube. It's still in flash.

On my Android devices I just set flash to load on demand, rather than all flash on all websites all the time. This way I can keep super fast page loading while still having the option to access anything I want. To most people, this is a desirable feature. If flash support gets added to ios via Apple, people would be ecstatic. BUT....
  • A fox sees some high-hanging grapes and wishes to eat them. When the fox is unable to think of a way to reach them, he surmises that the grapes are probably not worth eating, as they must not be ripe or that they are sour. This example follows a pattern: one desires something, finds it unattainable, and reduces one's dissonance by criticizing it.

Cognitive Dissonance. It affects everyone that brushes off Flash as if they don't want the ability to use it if they wanted to. The hardware is more than capable of running it

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