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Inside Apple's iPhone 4S: 'S' is for Siri voice recognition - Page 3

post #81 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I will never understand why people obsess so intensely about having the ability to turn on and off things like Wi-Fi and Bluetooth without having to go to the "extreme" of opening up the standard settings app.

This is also the number one refrain of those who jailbreak their phones when asked for the reason why they do it (to have access to an app that allows quick changes of these settings). Why the f*ck would anyone want to spend all day fiddling with the network settings on their phone, turning them on and off etc. ? Do. Not. Get.

As far as I can see, the only reasonable answer is to save battery life, but I've never met anyone who had any kind of problem with the iPhone battery. It literally almost never runs out. I don't think mine has gone below 60% on any of the three iPhones I've owned, ever.

WTF are all you people doing that burns your battery so much that you have to pain yourselves with turning this crap on and off all day long? Don't you have better things to do with your time?

Strong language, but not a clue. I'll help you a bit.
Sometimes your at the edge of a wifi area, this means that signal strength will fluctuate wildly but wifi is usable and much faster than 3G most of the time. When the signal drops to low it means that Internet access is ultra slow, at this point you switch wifi off.
When the wifi signal has recovered you switch wifi on. Etc. etc.
Battery life is a big problem, I have to charge my iPhone 3GS almost evey day and its most of the time below 50%, maybe you never use your phone?

J.
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post #82 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

My guess is that companies will pay big bucks to Apple to be the "chosen one". Likely there will be a way to change the default setting too, like the way the default search engine is chosen in modern web browsers.

The vast majority of users would stick with the default Apple and third-party apps/services.

It will probably work in the same way as the 'ask google' and 'ask bing' questions.
If you mention the apps name within the question, Siri will answer within the context of that app, otherwise the default context will be used.

J.
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post #83 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

They can probably have Siri on the iPhone 4. It seems that the heavy lifting of Siri is done in the cloud.

I think it is too early to tell if an A4 on the iPhone 4 can support Siri in a way acceptable to Apple.

The A5 is roughly 2-7 times as powerful as the A4. Additionally, Phil said that the iPhone 4S has a DSP that could improve performance in voice detection, analysis, and presentation -- don't know if the iP4 or iPad 2 have this DSP.

I have posted elsewhere, that I believe that the Voice Translation (Nuance) and Voice Analysis (Siri) are done on the iPhone 4S itself. (as well as execution of some simple Siri tasks).

Tasks requiring the Internet are preformed on Apple's Servers -- back ending to other servers as needed).

The Voice Response provided is delegated to built-in iOS voice routines.


I don't believe that you could realize the seamless interactive "feeling" of Siri as demoed if all the work was done on the server (A lot of bytes are involved in Voice Translation and Voice Analysis).

And, there'd be little need to do so... we've already seen that Voice Translation (Nuance) and Voice Analysis (Siri) can be done on the iPhone 4.
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #84 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssls6 View Post

to me it will always be "iPhone 4 Steve"

This dude twitted on the 10/6/11:
@stalkertard: hey @apple, how about if IPhone4S = "IPhone 4 Steve" and you donate a small portion of the proceeds towards cancer research?

I don't think Apple responded (yet). The idea is just awesome IMHO.
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post #85 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

It will probably work in the same way as the 'ask google' and 'ask bing' questions.
If you mention the apps name within the question, Siri will answer within the context of that app, otherwise the default context will be used.

J.

Interesting. Do you think that it will be difficult or impossible to change the default?
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post #86 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

locate captain picard ...

Find me some good porn.
oneof52
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post #87 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukei View Post

You can imagine because Siri needs an Internet connection to function.

Does it? I wouldn't know. It seems odd that i'd need connectivity just to say, "wake me up in one hour. Stupid, even. Do we know that for sure?
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post #88 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

Does it? I wouldn't know. It seems odd that i'd need connectivity just to say, "wake me up in one hour. Stupid, even. Do we know that for sure?

The intelligent processing takes place on the back end not the phone. Quote marketing email from Apple "Siri is available only on iPhone 4S and requires Internet access."

It was in the key note and would fit in with the way other apps like this work.
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post #89 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think it is too early to tell if an A4 on the iPhone 4 can support Siri in a way acceptable to Apple.

The A5 is roughly 2-7 times as powerful as the A4. Additionally, Phil said that the iPhone 4S has a DSP that could improve performance in voice detection, analysis, and presentation -- don't know if the iP4 or iPad 2 have this DSP.

I have posted elsewhere, that I believe that the Voice Translation (Nuance) and Voice Analysis (Siri) are done on the iPhone 4S itself. (as well as execution of some simple Siri tasks).

Tasks requiring the Internet are preformed on Apple's Servers -- back ending to other servers as needed).

The Voice Response provided is delegated to built-in iOS voice routines.


I don't believe that you could realize the seamless interactive "feeling" of Siri as demoed if all the work was done on the server (A lot of bytes are involved in Voice Translation and Voice Analysis).

And, there'd be little need to do so... we've already seen that Voice Translation (Nuance) and Voice Analysis (Siri) can be done on the iPhone 4.

I find it hard to believe that Apple can squeeze a DSP into the A5, given that it has two cores and a dual core graphics engine. Also, from a programming perspective, it creates an extra layer of complexity.

Phil Schiller referred not to a DSP but rather ISP - image signal processing. IMO - that's a gimmick name for software that analyzes how to auto-focus, how to set exposure time, etc.

As for A5 itself, it does not have a DSP but has instead DSP extensions in its instruction set (for audio and video encoding and decoding, for example). This is not an A5-specific feature, but rather standard part of the ARM architecture as of a couple of years ago.

I didn't say that the 4S did not do any of Siri work (but their website does indicate internet access is required, as someone above mentioned). But go back to keynote and you'll see that the dictation demo required uploading to the server. In other words, the task of translating speech to text (with no context analysis required) was carried out in the cloud. Does this mean the Nuance engine is not resident on the device? I don't know. The evidence is still scarce, but what's available so far suggests the heavy lifting is indeed in the cloud.
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post #90 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Interesting. Do you think that it will be difficult or impossible to change the default?

I don't know. Your guess is probably as good as mine.

J.
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post #91 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

Does it? I wouldn't know. It seems odd that i'd need connectivity just to say, "wake me up in one hour. Stupid, even. Do we know that for sure?

It absolutely does, according to Apple. We know that for sure.
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post #92 of 141
10/10/11 at 1:57pm
These things drain your battery, can cause radio interference, and are accessed quite frequently by many people. It doesn't really make sense to have to do, for example: Settings>Wi-Fi>Off>Settings>Brightness>(Slider)>Settings>Gener al>Bluetooth>On, etc. etc.

Honeycomb does this quite well. You tap on the "menu bar" where those symbols are, and a pop-up menu gives you access to all of those things in one place. I've always thought a quick settings menu for the top 4 or 5 settings would be a good addition to iOS. I would probably use it just as frequently as Spotlight, Voice Control, or any of the other functions that get their own dedicated space/button.
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post #93 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I will never understand why people obsess so intensely about having the ability to turn on and off things like Wi-Fi and Bluetooth without having to go to the "extreme" of opening up the standard settings app.

This is also the number one refrain of those who jailbreak their phones when asked for the reason why they do it (to have access to an app that allows quick changes of these settings). Why the f*ck would anyone want to spend all day fiddling with the network settings on their phone, turning them on and off etc. ? Do. Not. Get.

As far as I can see, the only reasonable answer is to save battery life, but I've never met anyone who had any kind of problem with the iPhone battery. It literally almost never runs out. I don't think mine has gone below 60% on any of the three iPhones I've owned, ever.

WTF are all you people doing that burns your battery so much that you have to pain yourselves with turning this crap on and off all day long? Don't you have better things to do with your time?

Not only do these things drain your battery, but they can cause radio interference (any radio), they can cause unnecessary connections (Bluetooth), be inappropriately bright/dim (Brightness), and are accessed quite frequently by many people. It doesn't really make sense to have to do, for example: Settings>Wi-Fi>Off>Settings>Brightness>(Slider)>Settings>Gener al>Bluetooth>On, etc. etc.

Honeycomb does this quite well. You tap on the "menu bar" where those symbols are, and a pop-up menu gives you access to all of those things in one place. I've always thought a quick settings menu for the top 4 or 5 settings would be a good addition to iOS: Brightness, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Network/Airplane Mode, Orientation Lock.

I would probably use it just as frequently as Spotlight, Voice Control, or any of the other functions that get their own dedicated space/button. Put it to the "left" of the multitasking tray and Music controls and I'd be happy.
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post #94 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

Does it? I wouldn't know. It seems odd that i'd need connectivity just to say, "wake me up in one hour. Stupid, even. Do we know that for sure?

Yea, that'd be silly. In the absence of cloud connectivity, maybe Siri could just give it its best shot?! That would be disappointing if even the OLD functionality of Voice Control were absent due to network connectivity.

"Play workout playlist"
"Sorry, there is no 3G or Wi-Fi connection available".
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post #95 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:06pm
iPhone 4S:

Siri
Speed
Shots (photography)
Sprint
Steve
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post #96 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukei View Post

Making/Receiving Email and making/receiving phone calls? My iPhone 4 lasts until about 15:00 until it needs a recharge. But I agree I'd rather do that than spend time turning wifi etc on/off!

I have had days it doesnt even last till 3. I was eying those extender battery packs the other week... but they make the phone so big.

Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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post #97 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukei View Post

The intelligent processing takes place on the back end not the phone. Quote marketing email from Apple "Siri is available only on iPhone 4S and requires Internet access."

It was in the key note and would fit in with the way other apps like this work.

Thanks for the response. Still seems odd for tasks requiring less "intelligence.". Ah well. Still love it.
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post #98 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

Yea, that'd be silly. In the absence of cloud connectivity, maybe Siri could just give it its best shot?! That would be disappointing if even the OLD functionality of Voice Control were absent due to network connectivity.

"Play workout playlist"
"Sorry, there is no 3G or Wi-Fi connection available".

Exactly.
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post #99 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I've heard these sorts of claims many times in the past. Voice recognition and AI have been "the next big thing" since maturation of the GUI.

I hope that Apple has actually pulled it off this time around.


I find it interesting that Apple calls it Beta. Likely that will be used to deflect some critics of Siri's performance.

That, or they plan to continue maturing it.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #100 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Strong language, but not a clue. I'll help you a bit.
Sometimes your at the edge of a wifi area, this means that signal strength will fluctuate wildly but wifi is usable and much faster than 3G most of the time. When the signal drops to low it means that Internet access is ultra slow, at this point you switch wifi off.
When the wifi signal has recovered you switch wifi on. Etc. etc.
Battery life is a big problem, I have to charge my iPhone 3GS almost evey day and its most of the time below 50%, maybe you never use your phone?

J.

I had the iPhone 3GS for a year, and I can definitely say that it had the shortest battery life of all iPhone models. The original iPhone had the best battery life: I usually charged it once every 2-3 days. The iPhone 4 has a much better battery life than the 3GS; I don't have to charge it every day.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #101 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:42pm
Where is the support for http://Startpage.com Apple? A search engine that actually respects the end-user's privacy!
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post #102 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

The original iPhone had the best battery life: I usually charged it once every 2-3 days.

Really? I suspect that the adage that "use your smart phone like a dumb phone, get good battery life. Use your smart phone like a smart phone, charge often" applies
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post #103 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

It absolutely does, according to Apple. We know that for sure.

This is my sad face.
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post #104 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:54pm
On battery life - experience varies because we all live and work in spaces with different signal strengths. So to argue passionately about this is moot.

One issue that is not often discussed - iPhones occasionally go into a hot loop - the battery heats up for no apparent reason and is drained of >75% of its power within an hour. If you read enough fora on the internet, you'll see this problem raised by a number of users.
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post #105 of 141
10/10/11 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

This is my sad face.

This is me patting your head, saying "there, there".

Don't give up yet. Very little info is available. But what's available so far won't do anything for your little sad face.
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post #106 of 141
10/10/11 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

I'd love to simply be able to say, "wifi off," and "bluetooth off."

Siri, please enable bluetooth whenever I am in my car. Disable it when I am not.

Set and forget.
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post #107 of 141
10/10/11 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

I have had days it doesnt even last till 3. I was eying those extender battery packs the other week... but they make the phone so big.

I have the Mophie Battery Pack. Was about $80-$90 but it gets the job done with a minimal increase in size. Also has a look akin to the 4's design making it more attractive than other packs.
You can't spell appeal without Apple.
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You can't spell appeal without Apple.
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post #108 of 141
10/10/11 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

"Siri, find porn."

Siri: "Maybe you could give me something that was actually challenging?"


How about a more suitable question:

"Siri, find the nearest strip club to my present location"
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post #109 of 141
10/10/11 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I had the iPhone 3GS for a year, and I can definitely say that it had the shortest battery life of all iPhone models. The original iPhone had the best battery life: I usually charged it once every 2-3 days. The iPhone 4 has a much better battery life than the 3GS; I don't have to charge it every day.

I charge my wife's iPhone 4 every day... it's down to about 20% - 30% battery life at the end of the day. She uses it alot for her contracting business and my 2 yr old son plays Treehouse videos or Angry Birds on it as well (when he's not on our iPad2).

Side note - Battery Doctor Pro is a great app to monitor your battery health.
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post #110 of 141
10/10/11 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macminiwii View Post

I wish this worked on my iPad2. I would love to have Siri do task for me. Crap \

I wish Apple would make a statement either way, from a hardware perspective there doesn't seem to be any reason Siri wouldn't run on iPad 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by some internet dude View Post

Way to copy Android Apple even the notification bar. LOL
Mite as well go all the way and put Android on there.

The voice recognition part isn't new at all. It's just supposed to do it much better and be able to make sense of natural language. Once it ships to the public there will be plenty of opportunity to test it out and compare to the voice recognition on Android. If it's a big improvement in those two respects, I don't think anyone will care if it's a "copy".

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

They can probably have Siri on the iPhone 4. It seems that the heavy lifting of Siri is done in the cloud.

There was already Siri for that phone - the devs said they had to make compromises to get it to run on that hardware, while the 4S is able to run the full version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavok View Post

Siri, please enable bluetooth whenever I am in my car. Disable it when I am not.

Set and forget.

Good idea, but how would it know when you're in your car? Your house or work it can figure out from GPS, but a car changes location.
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post #111 of 141
10/10/11 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

There was already Siri for that phone - the devs said they had to make compromises to get it to run on that hardware, while the 4S is able to run the full version.

There is still compromise - the heavy lifting is done on the server side. That can be done regardless of the device.
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post #112 of 141
10/10/11 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

This is me patting your head, saying "there, there".

Don't give up yet. Very little info is available. But what's available so far won't do anything for your little sad face.

: ) thanks. I'm not too worried. I have great connectivity most places. Looking forward to getting the 4s when i'm eligible.
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post #113 of 141
10/10/11 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavok View Post

Siri, please enable bluetooth whenever I am in my car. Disable it when I am not.

Set and forget.

Lol.
"siri, manage my wifi and bluetooth, damn you.....ps...i love you."
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post #114 of 141
10/10/11 at 6:21pm
Majel Barrett voicepack, please.
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post #115 of 141
10/10/11 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

On battery life - experience varies because we all live and work in spaces with different signal strengths. So to argue passionately about this is moot.

One issue that is not often discussed - iPhones occasionally go into a hot loop - the battery heats up for no apparent reason and is drained of >75% of its power within an hour. If you read enough fora on the internet, you'll see this problem raised by a number of users.

Wow! I have not heard of that one. I would hazard a W.A.G. that they all had Tom Tom installed? That app eats ram and battery power like there is no tomorrow (even when idle in the background y.m.m.v) until you kill it using task manager. Maybe less apparent on the iPhone 4 but very noticeable on 3gs.
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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post #116 of 141
10/10/11 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

According to the link, Phil Schiller himself said that part of Siri is on the server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukei View Post

You can imagine because Siri needs an Internet connection to function.

We'll find out this week when we turn off Data in Settings then try to do something you can currently do with Voice Control on iOS 4.x, like placing a call or playing a track in the Music app.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #117 of 141
10/10/11 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I had the iPhone 3GS for a year, and I can definitely say that it had the shortest battery life of all iPhone models. The original iPhone had the best battery life: I usually charged it once every 2-3 days. The iPhone 4 has a much better battery life than the 3GS; I don't have to charge it every day.

Use the task manager to kill all apps that are not Apple apps. Then kill bluetooth and turn off 3g. I can reliably last 6 days which is one day longer then I would get with the original iPhone. It's not that the 3gs has a shorter battery life but that we have found more and more power intensive uses for it.
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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post #118 of 141
10/10/11 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

Use the task manager to kill all apps that are not Apple apps. Then kill bluetooth and turn off 3g. I can reliably last 6 days which is one day longer then I would get with the original iPhone. It's not that the 3gs has a shorter battery life but that we have found more and more power intensive uses for it.

There is no Task Manager in iOS. That's a Windows feature. I think you are referring to Fast App Switcher which simply lists all the apps you've previously accessed in the order you accessed them. Now you can remove them from FAS and if they had active processing they will be killed, but the multitasking offered to developers is controlled and you're not going to save RAM and CPU cycles by removing apps in that list that have been sitting there for awhile.

You can test this by restarting your device to see every app in that order as it was before the restart. Further proof it's a Fast App Switcher and not a Task Manager/Activity Monitor is that the app you are in will not be listed in the list until after you leave the app.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #119 of 141
10/10/11 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronster View Post

How about a more suitable question:

"Siri, find the nearest strip club to my present location"

Amusingly enough, living in the bible belt (Georgia), Siri would simply say every third exit off of i-75!
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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post #120 of 141
10/10/11 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

We'll find out this week when we turn off Data in Settings then try to do something you can currently do with Voice Control on iOS 4.x, like placing a call or playing a track in the Music app.

Looking forward to that. For whatever it's worth, Apple's website indicates that "Siri is available in Beta only on iPhone 4S and requires Internet access."
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