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Apple's free iMessage expected to undermine carriers' high-profit SMS business - Page 2

post #41 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Note: When sending an iMessage to a compatible contact the send button is blue otherwise its green for SMS. Also, enable delivery receipts and you know that they have received the message pretty quickly after you sent it.

When sending an iMessage (blue send) if the other user is not in a data zone you get a message delivery failure. You can choose to send again (for 'free' with iMessage or choose to send as SMS. It doesn't fail then send it as an SMS without your consent.

You won't pay unless you choose to.

This is actually better than WhatsApp b/c you'll get instant notification if your iMessage doesn't go through. That way you can decide to send it via SMS for important messages. As for WhatsApp, it could be minutes or hours later before you realize that your friend never received your message. Every time that happens in WhatsApp, I end up sending another SMS to make sure my message is received.
post #42 of 139
Unless I'm reading this wrong, the article states iOS 5 is arriving on Tuesday the 12th but the 12th is Wed, right? Apple said the 12th didn't they?
post #43 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Except the iPad and iPod touch.

almost as ridiculous as google+ not supporting ipod touch
post #44 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscaskey View Post

I keep seeing this every time I open mail, just installed the new Mac OS 10.7.2

Possibly 'message' coming to Lion? Or just something I've missed? Someone may know something..


Your growl mail plugin is out of date. You can download the patcher from growl mail which will allow it to run.

You need the UUID patcher http://code.google.com/p/growlmail/d...r.zip&can=2&q=
post #45 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuniverse View Post

Our family has 5 lines on AT&T. We lowered the plan to 700 min. Between 5 lines, i know that sounds too little, but we also added $30 unlimited texting which covers all 5 lines ($6 per line for unlimited texting), but the kicker is that you get unlimited mobile minutes from ANY carriers.
Most people use mobile phones now days, so I thought this would be a good plan. What do you guys think?

I guess this is one way for carriers (in this case AT&T) to lure customer to texting plan.

I already had the unlimited Data, Minutes and Text, So I talked to AT&T, about dropping Unlimited Minutes to 700 Minutes and all I was going to save was $40.00 a month, plus I call a lot of landlines and they eat up your minutes so not worth it for me.
post #46 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuniverse View Post

Our family has 5 lines on AT&T. We lowered the plan to 700 min. Between 5 lines, i know that sounds too little, but we also added $30 unlimited texting which covers all 5 lines ($6 per line for unlimited texting), but the kicker is that you get unlimited mobile minutes from ANY carriers.
Most people use mobile phones now days, so I thought this would be a good plan. What do you guys think?

I guess this is one way for carriers (in this case AT&T) to lure customer to texting plan.

I did the exact same thing as you. We had the 1400 minute plan and lowered it to 700. I was worried about going over, but my last bill showed that we only used 205 minutes on 4 lines and we've already accumulated something like 4000 rollover minutes, which would cover us for any overages (but we haven't come close to it yet). I guess we call a lot more mobile phones than I thought and I never give a second thought about using my phone worrying we'll go over.
post #47 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

I just did the same thing. We were at 2100 minutes, but with unlimited nights and weekends, the A List, free AT&T mobile to mobile (now All mobile to mobile) we were hardly putting a dent in that limit. I figure even if we do go over during the holidays, the surplus of 13,000 rollover minutes we've racked up should keep us out of overage territory. Heck, in the last billing cycle, the total talk time for all 5 lines was something like 350 minutes, which just a few years ago wouldn't have been enough for even my wife's line. Text usage, on the other hand... yeah I don't even look at that anymore. Even though it's unlimited, it still blows me away just how many texts we rack up in a 30 day period.

Unless it's changed in the past few months, bear in mind that when you switch to a new plan, you lose all of your accumulated rollover minutes except for an amount equal to your new plan. So if you went from 13,000 rollover minutes on a 2100 minute plan to a 700 minute plan, you'll only have 700 rollover minutes.

I lost something like 9,000 rollover minutes, but the free mobile to any mobile saves me so many minutes, I've quickly built back up to a ton of rollover minutes.
post #48 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

An SMS message offers the user the ability of sending short bursts of text of up to 160 characters. Report author Jenna Wortham noted that, at rates as high as 20 cents per sent and received message, a user would end up paying $1,500 to send 1MB of text data. The same amount of data costs just 1.25 cents on a $25 per month 2GB data plan.

What an insanely stupid comparison.

Who in the world would spend $1500 on sending 1 MB of text data? AT&T offers unlimited texting for something like $20 a month for the entire family on family plan.

Now, if the only people you are texting are iPhone users, then maybe you could drop the texting plan, but in reality that's unlikely to be the case. So you will probably still have to have your text messaging plan in place - and won't really save any money (at least not until there's a way to integrate this with SMS).
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post #49 of 139
Somebody answer this: Is it free between iOS users OR is it free between iOS 5 users.

Big difference if the latter. My boss has iOS 3 on his 3G and probably will for life.
post #50 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

Somebody answer this: Is it free between iOS users OR is it free between iOS 5 users.

Big difference if the latter. My boss has iOS 3 on his 3G and probably will for life.

Presumably you mean for the life of the phone, not the life of your boss Because yes, it'll be for iOS 5, which won't go onto a 3G even if he wanted it to. He'll need to upgrade the handset.

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post #51 of 139
How much data is iMessage likely to eat up. If it's just texting, so no MMS would you expect it to be pretty much unnoticeable?

I have the option between a £15 month plan with texts/mins and 1GB of data or £25 with same mins/texts and unlimited data.
post #52 of 139
The writing...er I mean texting is on the wall. IMessage is just the latest salvo against such outrageous pricing by the telecom companies.

IMessage like facetime will be cool between Apple users(which is what I am)...but i actually use Yahoo Messenger to send and recieve FREE SMS messages to all my friends non apple cell phones. I use this all the time. It's really great and FREE.

With things like yahoo messenger, twitter and now iMessage...why would anyone willingly pay $20 to AT&T for unlimited texting? Ha! What a joke. Or .20cents per text? Even MORE of a joke. When you could text for free. Why would anyone hand over their hard earned money to these greedy telcom companies who are charging a 4,000% mark up from what sending a text really costs them?

It's not like you have to hack/jailbreak your device or something. There are plenty of FREE alternatives.
post #53 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordoftheflatbush View Post

So Whatsapp should sue Apple for stealing their app

And RIM should sue Whatsapp for stealing theirs...
post #54 of 139
I think it's great that Apple is starting this, but if every company has their own messaging service and none of them are cross platform then the wireless carriers are still going to get away with the ridiculous texting plans they have. This would be a great chance for some cooperation between Apple, Google and Microsoft to effectively kill text message price gouging.
post #55 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



The New York Times reports that the forthcoming service is being perceived as a threat to mobile operators.

...


However, Apple devices only account for 5 percent of texting traffic each year,


Somehow, ISTM that even if all the iDevices suddenly stopped using SMS services (which ain't ever gonna happen), 5% is not much of a "threat".

The stats show that iOS device owners send an average amount of text messages: iOS has about 5% of the phone market, and their owners send about 5% of text traffic.
post #56 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neves View Post

... i don't even understand the concept of unlimited nights and weekends.....hope this solves my issue...


My guess is that it will not solve your issues. They strike me as more fundamental than choice of software.
post #57 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

A lot of Blackberry users are running away from RIM. They know that they're on a dead end platform with no future, so they have to make a choice and quite a few of them are ending up on iOS.

Extrapolating from the recent stats, less than a third of them are going to iOS. More than twice as many seem to be headed to Android.
post #58 of 139
I just don't see this gaining that much traction since it only talks to other iOS (5) devices. You're still going to need to send and receive texts from people who aren't on iOS so the vast majority of people who do texting are still going to need to pay for a texting plan. I guess in some cases going to a cheaper text plan could save a bit of cash, but ATT only offers all or none, and with other companies I suspect many people are on the cheapest one anyway and the difference between the cheapest and the next one up isn't much. And having no texting plan doesn't stop incoming texts unless you specifically have them blocked (assuming all the companies support that).

This just seems like facetime all over again - stuff like this doesn't get used unless it can connect with EVERYONE, not just Apple users. Will they update this to connect with all phones at some point or just leave it to die like all the other proprietary Apple tech?
post #59 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

I just don't see this gaining that much traction since it only talks to other iOS (5) devices. You're still going to need to send and receive texts from people who aren't on iOS so the vast majority of people who do texting are still going to need to pay for a texting plan. I guess in some cases going to a cheaper text plan could save a bit of cash, but ATT only offers all or none, and with other companies I suspect many people are on the cheapest one anyway and the difference between the cheapest and the next one up isn't much. And having no texting plan doesn't stop incoming texts unless you specifically have them blocked (assuming all the companies support that).

This just seems like facetime all over again - stuff like this doesn't get used unless it can connect with EVERYONE, not just Apple users. Will they update this to connect with all phones at some point or just leave it to die like all the other proprietary Apple tech?

I'm in a wait and see mode on how this will impact my messaging plan. I think most of mine go to IOS users so going to a pay-per could make sense. I do know one thing - I won't be frustrated anymore with my parents sending a message then 5 typo corrections in 5 different messages.
post #60 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

I just don't see this gaining that much traction since it only talks to other iOS (5) devices. You're still going to need to send and receive texts from people who aren't on iOS so the vast majority of people who do texting are still going to need to pay for a texting plan. I guess in some cases going to a cheaper text plan could save a bit of cash, but ATT only offers all or none, and with other companies I suspect many people are on the cheapest one anyway and the difference between the cheapest and the next one up isn't much. And having no texting plan doesn't stop incoming texts unless you specifically have them blocked (assuming all the companies support that).

This just seems like facetime all over again - stuff like this doesn't get used unless it can connect with EVERYONE, not just Apple users. Will they update this to connect with all phones at some point or just leave it to die like all the other proprietary Apple tech?

People used to buy BB's just to get BBM because their friends and associates were using BBM. Apple doesn't need iMessage to sell more iPhones but it certainly won't hurt. As more people buy iOS devices, the more useful this becomes, the more people will buy iOS devices to stay connected, just as RIM benefited from BBM. But, RIM was dependent on BBM as a key selling point, where for Apple it is not nearly as important, yet.

Apple doesn't need iMessage to become a roaring success. iMessage simply becomes a nice extra for iOS users. And for a lot of iOS users, many/most of the people they text are also iOS users. I'd estimate that for me, 80% of the people I text use iPhones. Those on BB or Android, I can just use another IM app or email. trying to avoid carrier texting is very common. This just makes it a little easier for some.

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post #61 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Presumably you mean for the life of the phone, not the life of your boss Because yes, it'll be for iOS 5, which won't go onto a 3G even if he wanted it to. He'll need to upgrade the handset.

That doesn't answer my question, which is.

If I am on an iPhone with iOS 5 and someone else is on iOS 4, are messages I send or receive to/from them free? Or do we both have to have iOS 5. Or what?
post #62 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

That doesn't answer my question, which is.

If I am on an iPhone with iOS 5 and someone else is on iOS 4, are messages I send or receive to/from them free? Or do we both have to have iOS 5. Or what?

The new Messages app is only in IOS 5. I've heard no rumor or seen anything from the Dev side that indicates Apple will make it downloadable for iPhone Gen1 or Gen2.
post #63 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Extrapolating from the recent stats, it seems that less than a third of them are going to iOS and more than twice as many seem to be headed to Android.

There, I fixed that for you.
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #64 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

What an insanely stupid comparison.

Who in the world would spend $1500 on sending 1 MB of text data? AT&T offers unlimited texting for something like $20 a month for the entire family on family plan.

She's saying if you don't have a texting plan that would be your per\\text price compared to the data being sent. Some people don't have text plans and are willing to pay the $0.20 each.

Quote:
Originally Posted by regan View Post

With things like yahoo messenger, twitter and now iMessage...why would anyone willingly pay $20 to AT&T for unlimited texting? Ha! What a joke. Or .20cents per text? Even MORE of a joke. When you could text for free. Why would anyone hand over their hard earned money to these greedy telcom companies who are charging a 4,000% mark up from what sending a text really costs them?

It's not like you have to hack/jailbreak your device or something. There are plenty of FREE alternatives.

You have to be constantly connected to data and everyone isn't all the time. Or there are times when your connection isn't as strong and data transfer can take minutes to hours to go through. I use Kik with a couple of friends but sometimes I just need to SMS them to make sure a message gets through.
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post #65 of 139
I have the same number of phones and a 1400min plan and we did the same thing. We currently have over 10k min in our roll over due to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuniverse View Post

Our family has 5 lines on AT&T. We lowered the plan to 700 min. Between 5 lines, i know that sounds too little, but we also added $30 unlimited texting which covers all 5 lines ($6 per line for unlimited texting), but the kicker is that you get unlimited mobile minutes from ANY carriers.
Most people use mobile phones now days, so I thought this would be a good plan. What do you guys think?

I guess this is one way for carriers (in this case AT&T) to lure customer to texting plan.
post #66 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

The new Messages app is only in IOS 5. I've heard no rumor or seen anything from the Dev side that indicates Apple will make it downloadable for iPhone Gen1 or Gen2.

Then this will be a small pool of iOS users for at least the first year or so. Texts from my boss will still cost me 20 cents, because he will never replace his iPhone 3G.

Sigh.
post #67 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordoftheflatbush View Post

I like iMessage very much, but it has one disadvantage: its not cross platform. [...] I fear iMessage will be like iChat: great app but not really mainstream due to the fact its bound to the Apple platform only.

Take a look at the earlier article referincing Apples domination in mobile web browsing. Adoption won't be an issue like it was with the Mac.

Even so, if they enhance iCat into iMessage on the Mac, I hope they do the same on Windows. And I would really love it if they released for Android and WP7 - or at least an API so others could.
post #68 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Somehow, ISTM that even if all the iDevices suddenly stopped using SMS services (which ain't ever gonna happen), 5% is not much of a "threat".

The stats show that iOS device owners send an average amount of text messages: iOS has about 5% of the phone market, and their owners send about 5% of text traffic.

However, the text traffic is more profitable than phone or data. The real threat would be if iMessage were to ever become an open standard. Apple promised FaceTime as an open standard at one point (although I wonder what happened to that). If iMessage became an open standard and spread to other platforms, it could become significant.

In fact, it almost has to do that to be of any use. I can't imagine many people using SMS for texting and switching to iMessage only when texting another iOS 5.0 user. Just too much of a pain to remember who is using what - and too little advantage. So I expect iMessage to either flop or spread outside of iOS 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post

She's saying if you don't have a texting plan that would be your per\\text price compared to the data being sent. Some people don't have text plans and are willing to pay the $0.20 each.

The example was someone spending $1500 on SMS. That's 7500 messages at $0.20. Do you know ANYONE who would send that many messages in a month who doesn't have a text plan? That would be inordinately stupid.

Even if there might be one or two people out there crazy enough to do it, it's silly to use such an extreme example. It just has no bearing in the real world and is the worst kind of fluff that tries to pass as journalism.

And the entire premise is flawed. If you can only message with other iOS 5 users, you will still need a text plan, anyway, so it probably won't save you any money (certainly not the people who already have unlimited text plans).
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post #69 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

Then this will be a small pool of iOS users for at least the first year or so. Texts from my boss will still cost me 20 cents, because he will never replace his iPhone 3G.

Sigh.

Send him the link showing the 3GS is "free".
post #70 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Take a look at the earlier article referincing Apples domination in mobile web browsing. Adoption won't be an issue like it was with the Mac.

I don't see it.

The problem is that many people don't know what phone their contacts are using. So you have to keep both SMS and iMessage handy all the time and there will be times when you choose the wrong one.

Now, if iMessage were so overwhelmingly fantastic that some inconvenience were justified, that would be one thing, but I can't see that it's superior enough to want to mess around with the hassle. Unless it becomes multi platform and catches on significantly, it will be DOA.
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post #71 of 139
This is what it does - not how it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

iMessage – How it works

The application is part of iOS 5, the company’s latest mobile platform version which will be released on Oct. 12. iOS 5 will be compatible with various iOS devices: iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPad, iPad 2 and third-generation and newer iPod touch models.

iMessage was unveiled at this year’s Worldwide Developer Conference in June at what turned out to be the last keynote the late Steve Jobs delivered. One report suggested that Apple’s carrier partners were unaware of the development of such an app, reportedly finding out about it at the same time as the general public.

The app will make instant text-messaging between iOS devices substantially cheaper, even free in some cases, as it only requires a wireless network or a 3G data plan to work. The service should draw special appreciation from users that send a significant amount of SMS messages to friends and family that live in other countries and also happen to own recent models of Apple's mobile offerings.

Unlike SMS messages, iMessage texts are not limited to 160 characters per message. In addition to text, the application lets users share photos, videos, locations and contacts. Also, all sent and received iMessages are securely encrypted.

The app supports multi-device use, so users can pick up chatting with their contacts across any of the iOS devices they own. iMessage features single and group messaging and offers text delivery notifications.

A recent code discovery in Apple’s iChat application suggests the company may be interested in bringing iMessage support to its OS X Lion chatting platform.

I want to know more about how it works. For example, how does iMessage know the other user I'm about to text has iMessage? Can iMessage used mobile numbers? How does it work exactly? The simple facts about it confuse me. Would someone care to clarify iMessage for me?

Found all I need to know: http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-...with-imessage/
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #72 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I can't imagine many people using SMS for texting and switching to iMessage only when texting another iOS 5.0 user. Just too much of a pain to remember who is using what - and too little advantage. So I expect iMessage to either flop or spread outside of iOS 5.

I was hoping iMessage would replace the iOS message app - it's still not clear if it does.

Quote:
And the entire premise is flawed. If you can only message with other iOS 5 users, you will still need a text plan, anyway, so it probably won't save you any money (certainly not the people who already have unlimited text plans).

I don't. I use email exclusively, and with the rise of the smartphone this is not as big a deal. If I need to text someone, I email their SMS address. When someone questions why I don't have SMS I just point out that $20 a month is $240 a year.

Just for texting.

Utterly rediculous. I'd rather pay for the "expensive" cellular data any day. People are just paying for convenience,vand the per month fee is low enough they just don't realize how outrageous it is!

I do agree that to really gain traction iMessage needs to At least be interoperable. I think a well designed iMesage app for Android, WP7 or Windows itself could be a good sales tool for iOS
post #73 of 139
"Samsung and Google are also reportedly working on similar services that would allow Android users to communicate via free messages instead of pricier SMS texts. Meanwhile, Microsoft is said to be readying its own instant messaging system for the Windows Phone platform."

google/android had it for years with google voice. which is completely cross platform via actual mobile numbers.
post #74 of 139
I really wish Apple would be using more open standards. I don't understand why Facetime took the place of iChat/Jabber, and I really don't understand why they can't make iMessages an (open) extension of Jabber.

The one time I tried WhatsApp I had to remove it within two days, as it killed the battery. Has it gotten better?
post #75 of 139
I think you missed the point.

The reference was made to show how much profit network providers make from SMS. They're suggesting that you could send around 7500 standard length SMS messages with 1MB of network data. A MB of data costs just $1.20 (based on the plan they outlined) but sending those 7500 texts at $0.20 would cost $1500.00....

That's effectively $1498.80 profit for every $1500 the networks make from SMS.
post #76 of 139
Here in the UK most tariffs now include unlimited SMS, but have limited data. My 3GS tariff has 500 SMS per month and unlimited data so it won't make any real difference to that, but if I want to upgrade to a 4S I'll have to choose a tariff with unlimited SMS and either 100MB, 500MB or 1GB data per month. So then iMessage will then actually work against me since it would use up part of my limited data allowance instead of unlimited SMS. Is it possible to restrict iMessage to only send via SMS?
post #77 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I don't see it. The problem is that many people don't know what phone their contacts are using. So you have to keep both SMS and iMessage handy all the time and there will be times when you choose the wrong one.

As long as iMessage is also the new iOS SMS client It's a one time setting in you contact for that person. Hardly a big deal.

If it's integrated. How stories in iMessage can continue to overlook reporting on this important point is boggling to me. I guess I can find out for myself tomorrow.

Quote:
Now, if iMessage were so overwhelmingly fantastic that some inconvenience were justified, that would be one thing, but I can't see that it's superior enough to want to mess around with the hassle. Unless it becomes multi platform and catches on significantly, it will be DOA.

And yet BB Messanger was a major driver for BB growth in the consumer space and a huge driver for younger BB users. Don't underestimate how important even a non-universal feature can be. Apple is fast eclipsing BB marketshare...

While iMessage in and of itself isn't enough, it's still part of a broader ecosystem that Apple provides. Along with iCloud, iMessage is a seminal feature of iOS 5 that will drive further adoption. It's the sum of the well integrated parts working together. Apple already has the chicken/egg thing solved when introducing a new standard. If if you are rout and it doesn't set the world on fire, it will stll be far from DOA.

And if the economy keeps tanking, people may finally start to pay attention to the outrageous SMS fees.
post #78 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Note: When sending an iMessage to a compatible contact the send button is blue otherwise its green for SMS. Also, enable delivery receipts and you know that they have received the message pretty quickly after you sent it.

When sending an iMessage (blue send) if the other user is not in a data zone you get a message delivery failure. You can choose to send again (for 'free' with iMessage or choose to send as SMS. It doesn't fail then send it as an SMS without your consent.

You won't pay unless you choose to.

Doesn't work like that on my iPhone. Tries as data then sends as SMS if it can't send as data. I could turn off "Send as SMS" I guess it then works as you say. But that's a right royal pain in the backside!

I use iPhone and BB. RIM would be wise to produce an iPhone App (they are doing an Android one) and charge for it. Might give them a few more months of life
post #79 of 139
Yeah, but a single 160 character text message is only 140 bytes of data. I'm guessing like most, a lot of texts will be just a handful of words so not even close to the 160 characters. I don't think iMessage will make any considerable impact on your data usage.
post #80 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

SMS is more expensive per message sent but data plans costs a lot more per month so average phone bills are going up; I therefore doubt carriers are complaining that much.

Except I do data instead of text and even at $10 more per month, it costs the carriers far more to provide me data then SMS.

Trust me, they care - SMS is a cash cow bigger than extended warranties at BestBuy!
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