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Genius Bar iPhone policies tightened to make AppleCare+ more attractive - Page 2

post #41 of 64
10/11/11 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

So it begins. Jobs dies, and within months, Apple reverts to a company run by MBAs and retards.

Ignoring your personal insults, don't you think customers have been wanting coverage for accidental damage? I do. This is going to make a lot of people very happy.
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post #42 of 64
10/11/11 at 10:45pm
I must be missing something.

If you don't buy AppleCare+ and have an incident, it costs you $200 (in
round figures) to get a replacement phone.

If you do buy it and have an incident, it costs you the $100 for the
plan plus another $50 when you get service, for a total of $150.

So, if I have an incident, I save $50.
If I don't have an incident, I lose the $100 I paid for the plan.

This doesn't add up. The odds of an incident would have to be better than 2/3 in order to make the purchase worthwhile.

I think I'll self-insure. Again.
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post #43 of 64
10/11/11 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickRS View Post

I must be missing something.

If you don't buy AppleCare+ and have an incident, it costs you $200 (in
round figures) to get a replacement phone.

If you do buy it and have an incident, it costs you the $100 for the
plan plus another $50 when you get service, for a total of $150.

So, if I have an incident, I save $50.
If I don't have an incident, I lose the $100 I paid for the plan.

This doesn't add up. The odds of an incident would have to be better than 2/3 in order to make the purchase worthwhile.

I think I'll self-insure. Again.

1) An incident is accidental damage, not a default with the product covered under warranty.

2) You didn't factor in having two incidents. ($100+$50+50=$200 v. $200+$200=$400)

3) You didn't factor in having 2 years of warranty support over 1 year without AppleCare+.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #44 of 64
10/11/11 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

If you order one online and it comes with a defect, you have to take it to the Apple store in your city to get it replaced. They treat it as a used phone and replace it with a second used phone even though it's a brand new phone.

As someone else tried to point out, refurbished does not equal "used"

I know of no electronics company that replaces with new by default as part of the standard warranty.

Although the second iPod classic I had a problem with was replaced with a new on since they didn't have anything else in stock, so it just depends.

And as othersnalso tried to point out, rfurbished devices get allot more personal attention than the mass produced "new" and also haven't necessarily been in another customers hands. Indeed, the majority of Macs on the Apple online refurb site are BTO that were cancelled or returned unused.
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post #45 of 64
10/11/11 at 11:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) An incident is accidental damage, not a default with the product covered under warranty.

2) You didn't factor in having two incidents. ($100+$50+50=$200 v. $200+$200=$400)

3) You didn't factor in having 2 years of warranty support over 1 year without AppleCare+.

1) Sure, of course. Didn't think otherwise.

2) So, I'm thinking that the odds of an incident -- accidental or defect -- is going to be ... what ... less than 10%? That means the probability of having two incidents would be 1%. So, you're right, I didn't take it into account, mostly because I estimated that it's impact on the value equation would be almost insignificant.

3) I'm looking at the odds of an accident / defect within two years, which I still think is pretty small.

You could argue my 10% figure is too low, but my point is that the figure has to get awfully high before the value equation would be in your favour, probably > 50%.
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post #46 of 64
10/11/11 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickRS View Post

1) Sure, of course. Didn't think otherwise.

2) So, I'm thinking that the odds of an incident -- accidental or defect -- is going to be ... what ... less than 10%? That means the probability of having two incidents would be 1%. So, you're right, I didn't take it into account, mostly because I estimated that it's impact on the value equation would be almost insignificant.

3) I'm looking at the odds of an accident / defect within two years, which I still think is pretty small.

You could argue my 10% figure is too low, but my point is that the figure has to get awfully high before the value equation would be in your favour, probably > 50%.

It's likely it's small, but consider the price difference over the previous AppleCare plan for the iPhone. What is it, like $40? For me that makes it worthwhile, plus it will help with the resale value of the device when I sell it right after the 6th gen. iPhone arrives.

Also, I'll likely stop using a Bumper since I know that dropping it will only cost me $49. That's a $30 savings I've paid about every 3 months to replace. I'm really rough with my gadgets.
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post #47 of 64
10/11/11 at 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama View Post

Maybe if they didn't make the phone out of glass it wouldn't break so easily.

If you are that rough on it, even if the case was solid metal (never mind that now it's useless with no display) if you are knocking it around enough to break the gorilla glass you would still likely scramble something else on the inside.

Here's a radical thought - how about if people take responsibility and treat it like the expensive, precision piece of equipment it is?

Good god, the whining about the fragility of the iPhone is not only rediculous but downright pathetic. If you are that big of an irresponsible jackass I guess you should pay out the butt for a total replacement plan.
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post #48 of 64
10/11/11 at 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

It's my humble opinion that people buy the $199 phone not realizing that'll it cost >$600 to replace. The other possibility could be they bought something they can't afford to replace if lost, stolen or broken.

All the more reason for them to take better care of it in the first place.

Being an irresponsible idiot shouldn't be Apples problem, nor is providing thieving assholes who think nothing of misrepresenting themselves to get free replacements good customer service. It's just rewarding bad behavior

The change is long overdue...
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post #49 of 64
10/11/11 at 11:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickRS View Post

If you don't buy AppleCare+ and have an incident, it costs you $200 (in round figures) to get a replacement phone.

$200 for which phone? The cheapest 4S is $400?

Closer to $900 for the 64GB? The costlier the phone, the better the potential deal.

If you can afford to pay full price for a replacement and you are reasonably responsible with your stuff, self insuring almost always makes more sense.

Which reminds me, I probably need to drop collision on my older car - a Mac Pro costs more than I would get if it were to be totaled
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post #50 of 64
10/12/11 at 12:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

$200 for which phone?

I'm just going by the information being quoted in this thread that Apple will replace a phone for $199. I don't have first hand experience with that because I have yet to have an accident or warranty issue (touch wood).
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post #51 of 64
10/12/11 at 5:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post

Quit buying refurbs from Cowboom. Apple's refurbs have the EXACT SAME warranty as new and applecare is able to be purchased for them just the same.

Are you sure about that. When my Airporty Express inevitably broke and I took it to the genius bar the guy said I could either buy a service model (assume this meant referd) from them that was £10 cheaper but would only have a 3 month warranty or buy a new one with a year warrenty.
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post #52 of 64
10/12/11 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post

So when is AppleCare+ coming to the UK?

Do you really need it? I had a discussion with someone on here before about the price of it compared to home insurance, with the biggest difference being the exess your pay on a claim.

In Apple's exchange rate $99 tends to equal £99. So if we assume it's the same figures and it cost £99 for Applecare+ and the £49 to make a claim it will cost you £143 for the new phone if you need it.

With home insurance adding personal possession cover for any item up to £2500 costs £24, but the claim will cost £200 in excess. So the new phone if you need it will cost £224 and would be a brand new phone.

So if you make a claim Home insurance will cost you £81 more but if you don't make a claim will cost you £75 less. Which in some ways makes the AppleCare sound better, but you also need to take into account with the home insurance you've covered everything your family owns up to the value of £2500, so that could be an iPod, MacBook, your partners iPhone as well as yours.

Personally im against things like AppleCare as your not really that likely to make a claim. Depending how you do break it in the first year you can probably get it fixed under warranty and if you insured everything individually it would cost a fortune. Not to mention at the end of the 2 years, how much is the phone really worth and don't you want a new one anyway?
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post #53 of 64
10/12/11 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Do you really need it? I had a discussion with someone on here before about the price of it compared to home insurance, with the biggest difference being the exess your pay on a claim.

call me paranoid but I would never file such a trivial claim against my home insurance...
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post #54 of 64
10/12/11 at 10:02am
A lot of credit cards will double the manufacturers' warranty period on purchases for up to an additional year. Anybody have any luck with using these programs? Of course accidental damage is excluded, but for other stuff I would think it's a free option to get a 2 year warranty.
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post #55 of 64
10/12/11 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickRS View Post

I must be missing something.

If you don't buy AppleCare+ and have an incident, it costs you $200 (in
round figures) to get a replacement phone.

If you do buy it and have an incident, it costs you the $100 for the
plan plus another $50 when you get service, for a total of $150.

So, if I have an incident, I save $50.
If I don't have an incident, I lose the $100 I paid for the plan.

This doesn't add up. The odds of an incident would have to be better than 2/3 in order to make the purchase worthwhile.

I think I'll self-insure. Again.


Very simple principle -- only pay to insure what you cannot reasonably afford to lose.
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post #56 of 64
10/12/11 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No, I'm talking about replacing *new* phones with *used* phones.

If you order one online and it comes with a defect, you have to take it to the Apple store in your city to get it replaced. They treat it as a used phone and replace it with a second used phone even though it's a brand new phone.

I think this happens mostly because they don't seem to have any mechanism for sending back a defective phone through the mail, or at least if they do, they don't tell their customers about it. If you buy it in the store and it's defective when you open it up they just open up another new one but when you get it delivered, you don't get that opportunity because it's just some UPS delivery guy and he doesn't have any other new ones to give you if your's is defective anyway.

It's the main reason I didn't order an iPhone 4S this time. The last two iPhones I ordered online showed up defective and it was a huge holy nightmare of about 3 months duration each time to finally get them to replace it with a new phone instead of a used one. This year I'm waiting a month and buying it in the store as I just don't need the stress of arguing with Apple customer support.

If you order one online and it's defective, return it for a refund. Then buy another one. You CAN do a iPhone swap in a store if you ask a manager to do it instead of making a genius appt. If they want to do a service swap, just ask them to return it for a gift card and then buy another phone. As long as you are in your first 30 days, you can return the phone for any reason. That is as long as you bought it from Apple.
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post #57 of 64
10/12/11 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevenson View Post

It does state in the terms and conditions that the device may be new or reconditioned. It is at Apple's discretion. That being said, don't expect the people replacing your device to know the difference, they don't. Some are new, others are reconditioned. According to Apple, both have the same finished-goods standards.

Check all the phone companies... They all offer "like new" replacements outside of the return period. Why do you expect something different?

Actually, I have found that Apple's replacement phones are better than other handset manufacturers. Nokia in the 90's replaced my phone 3 times and they all looked like crap. The faces were scratched and the lcds were not very bright like my new phone. You could tell it was a refurb. Most service iPhones are identical in quality than new ones. In fact I have seen some new iPhones out of the box look worse than service parts. Just don't be in a hurry to check your phone when you buy it or exchange it. If you have an issue with it, tell them!! Apple's credo is they want you to buy their products for life, not for one time only. Just follow the golden rule.
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post #58 of 64
10/12/11 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

All the more reason for them to take better care of it in the first place.

Being an irresponsible idiot shouldn't be Apples problem, nor is providing thieving assholes who think nothing of misrepresenting themselves to get free replacements good customer service. It's just rewarding bad behavior

The change is long overdue...

The affect on the bottom line is not as cut and dried as the ethics themselves. While a customer may push the boundaries of what they're rightfully entitled to, bending over backwards may just win them as a long-term repeat customer, as well as generate good word of mouth, making the temporary loss worth it.

The trick is to find the optimal balancing point and in practice, it varies by customer. A regular Apple customer who's bought multiple computers, phones, ipods over the years.., yeah I'd probably replace their toilet-ed phone if it was my decision to make.
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post #59 of 64
10/12/11 at 12:24pm
It's a phone. A small device that gets pulled out of pockets and carried around several times a day. A device that gets dropped, A LOT, even by people who are incredibly careful. If you made a phone that gets smashed when I drop it, you're damn right it's YOUR FAULT for making it so fragile, and I absolutely do expect a free replacement without needing any supplemental coverage.
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post #60 of 64
10/12/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

It's a phone. A small device that gets pulled out of pockets and carried around several times a day. A device that gets dropped, A LOT, even by people who are incredibly careful. If you made a phone that gets smashed when I drop it, you're damn right it's YOUR FAULT for making it so fragile, and I absolutely do expect a free replacement without needing any supplemental coverage.

You have quite a sense of entitlement, and no sense of responsibility. If you drop it, it's your fault.
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post #61 of 64
10/12/11 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

It's a phone. A small device that gets pulled out of pockets and carried around several times a day. A device that gets dropped, A LOT, even by people who are incredibly careful. If you made a phone that gets smashed when I drop it, you're damn right it's YOUR FAULT for making it so fragile, and I absolutely do expect a free replacement without needing any supplemental coverage.


In that case, the supermarket owes me a bottle of ketchup and a few eggs.
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post #62 of 64
10/12/11 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naboozle View Post

In that case, the supermarket owes me a bottle of ketchup and a few eggs.

Most supermarkets will replace things like that anyway.
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post #63 of 64
10/12/11 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

You have quite a sense of entitlement, and no sense of responsibility. If you drop it, it's your fault.

No it isn't, it's a design flaw. A phone that is not designed to withstand being dropped is defective.
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post #64 of 64
10/13/11 at 5:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

call me paranoid but I would never file such a trivial claim against my home insurance...

Why? It's what it's there for and what you pay for. Also it's not like you get any discount for not making claims. I think it's quite possibly one of the most paid for services that nobody claims against. Probably why in comparison the up front cost is so cheap.
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