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Samsung lawyer couldn't tell iPad and Galaxy Tab apart from 10 feet away - Page 5

post #161 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's the first accurate statement you've made in over 650 posts.

Congratulations.

Yes us being evil is accurate.

Evil now equals not 100% pro-Apple. You guys even jump down the throats of Apple fans who disagree with any aspect of Apple policies or products.
post #162 of 194
Why are various judges all around the world ruling mostly in Apple's favor mostly and against Samsung? Are all these judges corrupt and in the pocket of Apple? Are all these judges secret Apple fanboys and hardcore Mac users?

Get a life Fandroids. Just admit that Samsung is in the wrong. Wake up and smell the coffee and put down the Android kool-aid that is apparently causing your brains to melt, severely diminishing your mental capabilities and reducing your thought processes to that of a vegetable.
post #163 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Why are various judges all around the world ruling mostly in Apple's favor mostly and against Samsung? Are all these judges corrupt and in the pocket of Apple? Are all these judges secret Apple fanboys and hardcore Mac users?

Get a life Fandroids. Just admit that Samsung is in the wrong. Wake up and smell the coffee and put down the Android kool-aid that is apparently causing your brains to melt, severely diminishing your mental capabilities and reducing your thought processes to that of a vegetable.

Again. Since some people are ridiculously dense. No one supports Samsung. Most of us feel patent laws need reforming and as such that includes Apple patents

And judges around the world mostly throw Apples claims out. -_- if you want to look at it that way.
post #164 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Again. Since some people are ridiculously dense. No one supports Samsung. Most of us feel patent laws need reforming and as such that includes Apple patents

And judges around the world mostly throw Apples claims out. -_- if you want to look at it that way.

Really?

Samsung's devices are banned in Germany.

Samsung's devices are banned in Australia.

US judge made it clear that Samsung copied Apple - and if Apple can demonstrate the validity of their patents (which is presumed under US law unless proven otherwise), then Samsung will lose there.

ITC has largely sided with Apple.

Even in the Netherlands which you like to brag about, the court found that Samsung infringed Apple's patents.

While it is true that Apple has used multiple claims in many of these courts and not all claims were accepted, they don't need to win EVERY claim. As long as the product is banned, Apple wins.
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post #165 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Really?

Samsung's devices are banned in Germany.

Samsung's devices are banned in Australia.

US judge made it clear that Samsung copied Apple - and if Apple can demonstrate the validity of their patents (which is presumed under US law unless proven otherwise), then Samsung will lose there.

ITC has largely sided with Apple.

Even in the Netherlands which you like to brag about, the court found that Samsung infringed Apple's patents.

While it is true that Apple has used multiple claims in many of these courts and not all claims were accepted, they don't need to win EVERY claim. As long as the product is banned, Apple wins.

If I file a dozen or so claims against a company and only 1 is held (but not won just under further review) did I win anything?

Germany injunction I will never agree with...sure it's legal, but the drawing they held up against the Tab and the 6 design criteria are overly broad...hence why most other cases seem to dismiss them (Hell I wouldn't be shocked if Apple was shocked it worked in Germany, as someone said they probably threw it in there to see if it would work...and it did)

The Australian one is under further review...and I wouldn't be shocked if it ends up being permanent, I don't know enough about the patents though what I know of them I don't agree.

Bounceback? I agree. Touchwhiz should be banned altogether and I'm shocked that hasn't happened. Hell they should definitely be forced to modify their designs on smartphones as the inspiration from Apple is too thick.

But anything that seems bad for the industry as a whole is bad IMO...the industry is bigger than Apple...and a monopoly on a super minimal tablet? Can't agree. And a monopoly on multi-touch? I cannot agree.

If the Samsung cases had no negative impact on the entire industry, Android or otherwise, I'd be all for it, but looking at the bigger picture? I can't be.

Also I'm speaking of the design patents...which have only held up in ONE case, all others have thrown them out so far.
post #166 of 194
I cannot really acknowledge this as any kind of valid test. Of course we do not know the actual details, so any discussion questioning the validity of the test can be met with a different set of assumptions that changes the direction of discussion.

Still, from head on, as someone mentioned before, the aspect ratios are different. Add that all you have to do is look to see which one has a home button and which one does not. Of course lighting and other conditions can make the home button more or less difficult to see from ten feet away. But even that is not the crux of the issue with the judge using this as a definitive test.

I do not think that most common consumers can tell the difference between the tablets on the market. For that matter, consumers who have not done a lot of research, and are not steeped in a given industry cannot tell the difference between specialty products in general. If I had a Dodge Challenger and a Dodge Charger out in my front yard and brought my wife outside, put her at an angle where she could not read any brand badges or names, and asked her to tell me which was which, she could not do it. If I ran that test using a Dodge Challenger and a Chevy Camaro, same result. Or what if I had a Suzuki GSX-R1000 and a Yamaha R1 in my yard and asked passersby to tell me the difference, with no badging visible. A Droid Bionic and a Nokia N900? Two HDTVs from different manufacturer's? A Blackberry Playbook and the Dell Streak 7? No, consumers could not tell the difference between those two 7" tablets from 5 feet away. Mainly because, if they have looked at any tablet for any length of time, they have likely only looked at an iPad. As a matter of test validity, what makes ten feet the magical distance anyway? Is that how far away consumers stand when they are in a store trying to decide which tablet to buy? No. Is that the average distance that a user stands away when using a tablet? No.

Most consumers cannot tell the difference between most mobile tech devices from 5 feet away unless they can see the brand name or unless the device is one that they have owned before, or currently own. Again, unless it is a product category they have heavily researched, or unless they are part of the tech-geek community, which, of course, at that point, means that they are not the average consumer.

I field too many questions a day, both online and off, from the layman to believe that average consumer America, understands how to visually differentiate between one tablet and another from ten feet away. Sure, it can be argued that the lawyers should have been studied enough to be able to do so, but I do not think it is reasonable to demand that the average consumer should be able to do so from ten feet away. The earlier poster who feels that you should be able to differentiate the devices without being intricately familiar with the details I feel is being unreasonable, for a class of devices that is designed around having, for the most part, little to no fixtures on the chassis. let's even say that the devices were on, and there was a widget on the Galaxy Tab's screen. I would not expect the average consumer walking into a store to understand that that device was not an iPad from ten feet away without walking up to it and reading the details, unless it had Samsung branding emblazoned all around it, which of course, most tablet kiosks do. It sort of begs the question: if someone, if some company, Apple and others included, expect their devices to be recognizable within the constraints of this judge's test, why do there need to be six foot banners above every kiosk or section of an electronics store where these devices are on display? I think it is because it is recognized and understood that without being beat over the head with the brand name, most average consumers do not know the difference between these devices from a visual inspection only, even from less than 10 feet away.

The whole validity of this test, and the defense of it ass some kind of smoking gun that proves that the designs are too close, is questionable. In my own opinion, it is completely useless, because I would not expect most people, who do not frequent sites like this or other tech sites on a daily basis, to be able to pass this test. Again, this is just my opinion; I understand that there are a lot of others who feel differently and I respect those opinions. I own an iPad, and an iPhone, and have owned a MacBook and MacBook Pro. I believe in the value of Apple products and see them as useful, and believe in the advantages that my iPad has over other devices I have used and owned. But I do not believe this test exercises anything resembling a real-world consumer scenario
- Vr/JLM Jr.
post #167 of 194
A first-post giant wall of text that ISN'T hiding some stupid spam link?!

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post #168 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

If I file a dozen or so claims against a company and only 1 is held (but not won just under further review) did I win anything?

Of course. If you're charged with 100 counts of murder and they only prove one, that's enough to send you to the electric chair. You wouldn't be any more dead with 3 counts or 100.

Apple accomplished its objectives. That's exactly what they wanted to do. They don't really care WHICH arguments are the ones that won the case for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Germany injunction I will never agree with...sure it's legal, but the drawing they held up against the Tab and the 6 design criteria are overly broad...hence why most other cases seem to dismiss them (Hell I wouldn't be shocked if Apple was shocked it worked in Germany, as someone said they probably threw it in there to see if it would work...and it did)

No one really cares whether you agree with it or not. It's dishonest to simply ignore it because you don't agree. There is an injunction right now. You were wrong when you said that Samsung keeps winning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

The Australian one is under further review...and I wouldn't be shocked if it ends up being permanent, I don't know enough about the patents though what I know of them I don't agree.

Doesn't matter. There is an injunction right now. You were wrong when you said that Samsung keeps winning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Bounceback? I agree. Touchwhiz should be banned altogether and I'm shocked that hasn't happened. Hell they should definitely be forced to modify their designs on smartphones as the inspiration from Apple is too thick.

That description fits Samsung's products, as well. Obviously, the German and US judges felt that the similarity was more than coincidental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

But anything that seems bad for the industry as a whole is bad IMO...the industry is bigger than Apple...and a monopoly on a super minimal tablet? Can't agree. And a monopoly on multi-touch? I cannot agree.

That's only your opinion. Many other people think that innovation is better for the industry than blatant copying. Apple has certainly done well with innovation. It is likely that other companies would do well, also. The industry CLEARLY benefits if companies are encouraged to innovate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

If the Samsung cases had no negative impact on the entire industry, Android or otherwise, I'd be all for it, but looking at the bigger picture? I can't be.

Sorry, but your view amounts to "anyone should be able to steal anything they want because it's better for the industry". That just doesn't fly. Innovation is what drives the industry ahead - and innovation is encouraged when companies can benefit from it rather than sitting idly by and watching their innovations stolen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Also I'm speaking of the design patents...which have only held up in ONE case, all others have thrown them out so far.

Yeah, you keep doing that. You make blanket statements that are absolutely false and then when cornered on it, you try to spin it in some completely unrelated direction.

The fact is that Apple is winning cases left and right while Samsung is consistently getting slapped down. Could that change in the future? Sure. But today, Apple has won something important in every jurisdiction - including the Netherlands which you keep bragging about.
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post #169 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuxidamas View Post

brilliant post omitted for space
- Vr/JLM Jr.

Good post.
post #170 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Of course. If you're charged with 100 counts of murder and they only prove one, that's enough to send you to the electric chair. You wouldn't be any more dead with 3 counts or 100.

Apple accomplished its objectives. That's exactly what they wanted to do. They don't really care WHICH arguments are the ones that won the case for them.



No one really cares whether you agree with it or not. It's dishonest to simply ignore it because you don't agree. There is an injunction right now. You were wrong when you said that Samsung keeps winning.



Doesn't matter. There is an injunction right now. You were wrong when you said that Samsung keeps winning.



That description fits Samsung's products, as well. Obviously, the German and US judges felt that the similarity was more than coincidental.



That's only your opinion. Many other people think that innovation is better for the industry than blatant copying. Apple has certainly done well with innovation. It is likely that other companies would do well, also. The industry CLEARLY benefits if companies are encouraged to innovate.



Sorry, but your view amounts to "anyone should be able to steal anything they want because it's better for the industry". That just doesn't fly. Innovation is what drives the industry ahead - and innovation is encouraged when companies can benefit from it rather than sitting idly by and watching their innovations stolen.



Yeah, you keep doing that. You make blanket statements that are absolutely false and then when cornered on it, you try to spin it in some completely unrelated direction.

The fact is that Apple is winning cases left and right while Samsung is consistently getting slapped down. Could that change in the future? Sure. But today, Apple has won something important in every jurisdiction - including the Netherlands which you keep bragging about.

When you can find where I said Samsung keeps winning I'll take you a bit more seriously.

And obviously this is just my opinion. I make that quite clear by how utterly subjective I am in my posts.

And no. A basic previously used design of a rounded rectangular device that never went into production is not innovation. The actual iPad is.

Also the Netherlands patents are up for review. No one won there yet.

But being that this entire thread is based on visual similarity the courts there (and Australia) disagreed with Apple. Hence my "bragging"
post #171 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

If I file a dozen or so claims against a company and only 1 is held (but not won just under further review) did I win anything?

Germany injunction I will never agree with...sure it's legal, but the drawing they held up against the Tab and the 6 design criteria are overly broad...hence why most other cases seem to dismiss them (Hell I wouldn't be shocked if Apple was shocked it worked in Germany, as someone said they probably threw it in there to see if it would work...and it did)

The Australian one is under further review...and I wouldn't be shocked if it ends up being permanent, I don't know enough about the patents though what I know of them I don't agree.

Bounceback? I agree. Touchwhiz should be banned altogether and I'm shocked that hasn't happened. Hell they should definitely be forced to modify their designs on smartphones as the inspiration from Apple is too thick.

But anything that seems bad for the industry as a whole is bad IMO...the industry is bigger than Apple...and a monopoly on a super minimal tablet? Can't agree. And a monopoly on multi-touch? I cannot agree.

If the Samsung cases had no negative impact on the entire industry, Android or otherwise, I'd be all for it, but looking at the bigger picture? I can't be.

Also I'm speaking of the design patents...which have only held up in ONE case, all others have thrown them out so far.

I can't really disagree with anything you said there, but I'd add a couple of observations.

In the German case, Apple brought a number of complaints to the court, of which the drawing was just one. The fact that the court only upheld the complaint relating to the drawing is odd or not, depending on your point of view, but that they then banned the device based only on that is somewhat perverse. But we can't blame Apple for not withdrawing the complaint or asking for a lesser judgement just because it was the only one upheld.

In the multitouch dispute, it does not appear that Apple is going after the whole concept - just certain specific implementations that they do believe patentable and patented.
post #172 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuxidamas View Post

I cannot really acknowledge this as any kind of valid test. Of course we do not know the actual details, so any discussion questioning the validity of the test can be met with a different set of assumptions that changes the direction of discussion.

Still, from head on, as someone mentioned before, the aspect ratios are different. Add that all you have to do is look to see which one has a home button and which one does not. Of course lighting and other conditions can make the home button more or less difficult to see from ten feet away. But even that is not the crux of the issue with the judge using this as a definitive test.

The judge didn't use it as a definitive test. If you read the press reports, the judge had already pointed out her concern that the Samsun device appeared to be a close copy. The lawyer stunt was simply to highlight the concerns the judge already had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuxidamas View Post

I do not think that most common consumers can tell the difference between the tablets on the market. For that matter, consumers who have not done a lot of research, and are not steeped in a given industry cannot tell the difference between specialty products in general. If I had a Dodge Challenger and a Dodge Charger out in my front yard and brought my wife outside, put her at an angle where she could not read any brand badges or names, and asked her to tell me which was which, she could not do it. If I ran that test using a Dodge Challenger and a Chevy Camaro, same result. Or what if I had a Suzuki GSX-R1000 and a Yamaha R1 in my yard and asked passersby to tell me the difference, with no badging visible. A Droid Bionic and a Nokia N900? Two HDTVs from different manufacturer's? A Blackberry Playbook and the Dell Streak 7? No, consumers could not tell the difference between those two 7" tablets from 5 feet away. Mainly because, if they have looked at any tablet for any length of time, they have likely only looked at an iPad. As a matter of test validity, what makes ten feet the magical distance anyway? Is that how far away consumers stand when they are in a store trying to decide which tablet to buy? No. Is that the average distance that a user stands away when using a tablet? No.

Most consumers cannot tell the difference between most mobile tech devices from 5 feet away unless they can see the brand name or unless the device is one that they have owned before, or currently own. Again, unless it is a product category they have heavily researched, or unless they are part of the tech-geek community, which, of course, at that point, means that they are not the average consumer.

I field too many questions a day, both online and off, from the layman to believe that average consumer America, understands how to visually differentiate between one tablet and another from ten feet away. Sure, it can be argued that the lawyers should have been studied enough to be able to do so, but I do not think it is reasonable to demand that the average consumer should be able to do so from ten feet away. The earlier poster who feels that you should be able to differentiate the devices without being intricately familiar with the details I feel is being unreasonable, for a class of devices that is designed around having, for the most part, little to no fixtures on the chassis. let's even say that the devices were on, and there was a widget on the Galaxy Tab's screen. I would not expect the average consumer walking into a store to understand that that device was not an iPad from ten feet away without walking up to it and reading the details, unless it had Samsung branding emblazoned all around it, which of course, most tablet kiosks do. It sort of begs the question: if someone, if some company, Apple and others included, expect their devices to be recognizable within the constraints of this judge's test, why do there need to be six foot banners above every kiosk or section of an electronics store where these devices are on display? I think it is because it is recognized and understood that without being beat over the head with the brand name, most average consumers do not know the difference between these devices from a visual inspection only, even from less than 10 feet away.

The whole validity of this test, and the defense of it ass some kind of smoking gun that proves that the designs are too close, is questionable. In my own opinion, it is completely useless, because I would not expect most people, who do not frequent sites like this or other tech sites on a daily basis, to be able to pass this test. Again, this is just my opinion; I understand that there are a lot of others who feel differently and I respect those opinions. I own an iPad, and an iPhone, and have owned a MacBook and MacBook Pro. I believe in the value of Apple products and see them as useful, and believe in the advantages that my iPad has over other devices I have used and owned. But I do not believe this test exercises anything resembling a real-world consumer scenario
- Vr/JLM Jr.

You clearly do not understand trade dress and copyright issues. The major factor to be considered is whether an average consumer would be confused. If a lawyer who has been involved with the product extensively for 6 months or more is confused, then it is even more likely that an average consumer would be confused.

Samsung just lost a large chunk of their legal arguments. They can really no longer claim that their tablet isn't a close copy of the iPad. if they do, they'll get this incident thrown back in their faces. So one of their major legal arguments is gone. And it's a VERY bad thing when you have to drop one of your major legal arguments.

Furthermore, Samsung just lost an ENORMOUS amount of credibility on the world stage. They are now a laughingstock among those studying intellectual property issues. This will haunt them for years. And that lawyer might as well apply for a job at Wal-mart.
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post #173 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I can't really disagree with anything you said there, but I'd add a couple of observations.

In the German case, Apple brought a number of complaints to the court, of which the drawing was just one. The fact that the court only upheld the complaint relating to the drawing is odd or not, depending on your point of view, but that they then banned the device based only on that is somewhat perverse. But we can't blame Apple for not withdrawing the complaint or asking for a lesser judgement just because it was the only one upheld.

In the multitouch dispute, it does not appear that Apple is going after the whole concept - just certain specific implementations that they do believe patentable and patented.

Oh okay (about multitouch) that makes sense then.

honestly I expected the trade-dress complaints to be upheld easily considering how much Samsung apes Apple more so than the design one, especially on the Tab. The Galaxy S I thought would be the smoking gun, especially the Galaxy S Vibrant for T-mobile USA.
post #174 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

When you can find where I said Samsung keeps winning I'll take you a bit more seriously.

And obviously this is just my opinion. I make that quite clear by how utterly subjective I am in my posts.

And no. A basic previously used design of a rounded rectangular device that never went into production is not innovation. The actual iPad is.

Also the Netherlands patents are up for review. No one won there yet.

But being that this entire thread is based on visual similarity the courts there (and Australia) disagreed with Apple. Hence my "bragging"

Your bragging is ridiculous.

Apple won a preliminary injunction in Germany.

Apple won a limited victory in the Netherlands. Samsung will be able to work around it, but it's still a victory for Apple.

Apple won a preliminary injunction in Australia.

And Apple appears to be well on the way to winning in the U.S.

Meanwhile, how is Samsung doing on getting the iPhone and iPad banned in Europe and elsewhere? Oh, yeah. Zero success.

Then, of course, is the PR battle which Samsung just handed to Apple by hiring stupid lawyers.

Bragging about ANYTHING that Samsung is doing is absolutely ridiculous.
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post #175 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Your bragging is ridiculous.

Apple won a preliminary injunction in Germany.

Apple won a limited victory in the Netherlands. Samsung will be able to work around it, but it's still a victory for Apple.

Apple won a preliminary injunction in Australia.

And Apple appears to be well on the way to winning in the U.S.

Meanwhile, how is Samsung doing on getting the iPhone and iPad banned in Europe and elsewhere? Oh, yeah. Zero success.

Then, of course, is the PR battle which Samsung just handed to Apple by hiring stupid lawyers.

Bragging about ANYTHING that Samsung is doing is absolutely ridiculous.

Excuse my language but where the fuck am I bragging at all?
post #176 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Excuse my language but where the fuck am I bragging at all?

Your own words:
Quote:
"But being that this entire thread is based on visual similarity the courts there (and Australia) disagreed with Apple. Hence my "bragging""
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post #177 of 194
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post #178 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Your own words:

It's in quotes for a reason genius.
post #179 of 194
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post #180 of 194
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post #181 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Google does not pay me. Does Apple pay you?
Also evil seems to have a different meaning in Apple fan land than reality.
Also I've never seen anyone say Android is good. Being technology Android is incapable of being good or evil. Unless you mean good as in a quality sense in which case I'm allowed to hold that opinion.
And please tell me how I'm evil. I'd love to know your criteria on such a distinction.
Must be easy to ignore arguments when you so easily dehumanize those who disagree.

You appear to be losing your cool Absolute!

Conradjoe is in your camp.
post #182 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

You appear to be losing your cool Absolute!

Conradjoe is in your camp.

Lol. Poe's law.
post #183 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

I think (or at least hope) that ConradJoe's post was made in irony.

Those quick to use the term "shill" often overlook the logical extension of their imaginings:

The only people who care what's written in this tiny corner of the Internet are those who frequent this place; no else imagines that what happens here has any consequence in the outside world at all.

So if someone were a paid troll, the only company who would benefit from such payment would be AppleInsider themselves, since such posts contribute to repeat visits.

Does anyone here really believe AI pays people to come in here and stir the hornet's nest?

If there are paid trolls at all that's the most plausible answer.

Not at all. Who is incredibly eager to sway public opinion in their favor? Who is starting to look very bad as far as PR? Who has lots of money to spend? Who has shown a blatant disregard for everyone's intellectual property but their own?

You could answer all of those questions with either "Samsung" or "Google".
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post #184 of 194
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post #185 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Who believes this tiny corner of the Internet tucked away in AI's pages matters to anyone beyond AI themselves and a handful of regulars?

Has anything posted here ever made any significant different in consumer buying habits, or even the buying habits of those who read these forums?

Mr. Ragosta, if you aspire to write in a forum that matters, I'm afraid you've found the wrong venue. You might consider a blog, or a Facebook page....

So why do you post here?

And even if it's not important, I happen to enjoy slapping you Android shills around.
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post #186 of 194
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post #187 of 194
Google should have patented the windowshade notification and multitasking. I have an iPad 2 and just installed iOS 5. The copying from Android is rampant. And to be honest, it's all an improvement.

jragosta and anonymouse you have good posts. I'm not attacking you, just sticking up for Android. I'm no Fandroid, or not exclusively anyway. I'm an Apple fan and an Android fan, and I even like a lot of new things Microsoft is doing. Best tool for the job. For example I am not one of those nutballs that think everything should be open source and we should get rid of all patents. That's obviously silly and will never happen anyhow.

I know Samsung is trying to make phones that look similar to iPhones. But the thing is, I don't think anyone would be fooled. It's like trying to copy Coke, which was a good example and I agree with. NOTHING tastes like Coke that I've ever tried. And I loooove Coke. Coke Zero mmm. So, the typical customer buying an Apple product is looking for the Coke taste. They are not buying it for the can and to look cool while drinking out of a Coke can. They want the Coca-Cola taste. The equivalent is the Mac OS GUI experience. People buying an Android phone, are similar, in that they want Android. They want some of the features Android offers that iPhone does not. (And/or since it's cheaper). They'd buy a Samsung phone whether or not it looks like an iPhone. It just so happens the iDevices are attractive to look at and Samsung copied them.

While it's kind of pathetic Samsung couldn't create its own look, I think Apple is taking it a bit far with all this lawsuit crap. All this crap does it raise prices for ALL of us! For our products, a fraction of which goes toward paying frickin lawyers for both sides. Screw the lawyers, let's keep our money going to the engineers that make great stuff. And their families. Both Apple and Samsung make great stuff. If Apple wants to continue to lead the market, they should continue to out-innovate everyone else. And I give it to them, when they first came out with the iPhone it was a BIG deal. It started "apps", it started multitouch, and awesomely, they told carriers what to do not the other way around. iPhone undoubtedly paved the way for Android. And Eric S. did probably steal some intellectual property from those AAPL meetings. Google does owe Apple in a way, and that is why now that I think about it, Apple definitely deserves to steal back some ideas from Google (like the windowshade Notifications).

I really like my Droid and I think it has some cool things no one else has as a platform. It actually syncs extremely well with a Mac once a few things are set up. I just want to spread this info to anyone else here who has a Mac, so they know that if they get a Droid, it actually works with their Mac.

But jrag...if you know a way to get me on Google's payroll as a shill lemme know.
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #188 of 194
Today's Dilbert takes a jab at all of this.

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-10-18/
post #189 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Google should have patented the windowshade notification and multitasking.

I don't need to go any further. You have no credibility. Multitasking was around long before Google even existed. For that matter, it was probably around before Google's founders were even born.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #190 of 194
To all those who believe that the iPad's form factor is synonymous with Tablet form factors in general, the following image says it all.

post #191 of 194
It is sad to see Apple using mindless patents to force competitors out of their way. It is even worse seeing judges agreeing with this approach. In the end this will be bad for all of us.

Sadly, most people on this forum don't have the brains to understand the underlying issues.

I will take the time to give an example.

The form factor is driven by what is possible from a technology point of view. Thinner devices weren't possible just a few years ago. Smaller devices result in similar looking devices. I mean I have yet to see an Android or iPad device that isn't rectangular... At the same time all manufacturers go for less buttons and rounded corners. Again that is driven by common aesthetics and not by copying each other.

Now, I can already hear some folks asking about the frame around the screen. Guess what? It is driven by what it is technical possible. The frame not only holds the screen in place it also allows for more interior space. At this time it is safe to assume that future devices will be frame less because our technology is moving forward.

Apple is making a lot of patent claims that are not in alignment with common belief. Most recently I saw one in which Apple claims to be the developer of click able links to dial a phone number. Seriously? Links have been developed by whoever came up with HTML. Oh, wait, these folks did the right thing. They made that public domain. Otherwise we would all pay for every freaking web page we are loading...

Common sense is needed. Sadly our judges are not knowledgeable when it comes to technology and so we will see many misjudgements.

Overall, this is bad news for customers.
post #192 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jst68 View Post

It is sad to see Apple using mindless patents to force competitors out of their way. It is even worse seeing judges agreeing with this approach. In the end this will be bad for all of us.

Sadly, most people on this forum don't have the brains to understand the underlying issues.

I will take the time to give an example.

The form factor is driven by what is possible from a technology point of view. Thinner devices weren't possible just a few years ago. Smaller devices result in similar looking devices. I mean I have yet to see an Android or iPad device that isn't rectangular... At the same time all manufacturers go for less buttons and rounded corners. Again that is driven by common aesthetics and not by copying each other.

Now, I can already hear some folks asking about the frame around the screen. Guess what? It is driven by what it is technical possible. The frame not only holds the screen in place it also allows for more interior space. At this time it is safe to assume that future devices will be frame less because our technology is moving forward.

Apple is making a lot of patent claims that are not in alignment with common belief. Most recently I saw one in which Apple claims to be the developer of click able links to dial a phone number. Seriously? Links have been developed by whoever came up with HTML. Oh, wait, these folks did the right thing. They made that public domain. Otherwise we would all pay for every freaking web page we are loading...

Common sense is needed. Sadly our judges are not knowledgeable when it comes to technology and so we will see many misjudgements.

Overall, this is bad news for customers.

1) You must not have the brains to understand the viewpoint of others if you've read this entire thread and concluded that everyone who doesn't agree with you apparently have no understanding of the issues at hand.
2) The HTML links you speak of are entirely different from Apple's patent. In the early days of HTML, you had to specifically tag info like phone numbers for them to have an action available. Apple's patent involves random data that is then translated to actionable events. Back then if you typed in a random number online without tags, you wouldn't have been able to "click to dial.".
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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post #193 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I don't need to go any further. You have no credibility. Multitasking was around long before Google even existed. For that matter, it was probably around before Google's founders were even born.

I know. Everyone copies everyone. I was not serious. My point is that most platforms have a lot of similarities. But almost all platforms have exclusive features or at least they are exclusive for a while before others copy it. Apple is usually the pioneer but not always. Have you used Android? The windowshade notification bar looks pretty familiar to me. I've been enjoying it for a year with my Droid. And while multitasking wasn't invented by Google, it was the first popular mobile phone OS that could multitask I think (maybe? I'm guessing.) In fact, Android seems to SCALE better, for power users, to do LOTS of things in lots of ways, all at once. Apple typically excels at this, but for once, I think they've tripped. MacOS X excels at managing lots of information and processes and making sense of chaos. iOS feels kludgey and leaden compared to Android at least to me. I think the standard buttons on the bottom, keyboard, and Notifications have really been my favorite things about Android.

Now ease up on the friendly fire, I'm on both teams here. How do I have no credibility, I have an iPad 2 and a Droid 2 Global, both top-tier for each platform. I'm pointing out similarities and how it highlights the escalating silliness of software patent lawsuits. I believe in patents. In fact I believe strongly in software patents. But lately the lawyers are just getting stupid with their broad interpretations of laughably generic patents. I'm just calling for a little more restraint of the legal eagle teams and for companies (Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc) to out-innovate each other instead of resorting to suing each other. Which will result in better and cheaper products for us. How about it?
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #194 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Furthermore, Samsung just lost an ENORMOUS amount of credibility on the world stage. They are now a laughingstock among those studying intellectual property issues. This will haunt them for years. And that lawyer might as well apply for a job at Wal-mart.

That lawyer is the former dean of Stanford's law school. She will remain highly employable despite this case.

There are some cases so weak that even an all-star team of lawyers cannot save them. Samsung's is one of those.
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