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post #41 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Karma is actually the Law of Cause and Effect. Where the mysticism comes into it is the artificial construct of magnification of one action causing a threefold return of action, without any scientific validation of such a result.

If you punch me the odds are I'll deck you beck. Whether I knock you out and then two other actions come along to counter your initial action is not something one can scientifically verify will happen.

The initial cause may have your perceived original effect, but you have no control over the effect(s) resulting in your causal action.

I think people are getting way out of their field of expertise here.
FWIW, Karma is not a cosmic system of justice, but simply translates to your own 'doing'.
There is nothing but a single, unified existence in which we're all 'god' playing a multitude of parts in a cosmic game of hide and seek. If we are all god, then anything you do, you're doing to yourself.
Its been corrupted to mean cosmic payback.
post #42 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The reason for the `Church' centers around availability of space to hold a service. People read far too much into it.

This is probably true. Memorial services are for the benefit of the living, and Steve had an affinity for Palo Alto, but not for religious reasons.

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post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Karma is actually the Law of Cause and Effect. Where the mysticism comes into it is ...

This the mysticism part of Buddhism:
Quote:
from buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm
Every birth is conditioned by a past good or bad karma, which predominated at the moment of death. Karma that conditions the future birth is called Reproductive Karma. The death of a person is merely a temporary end of a temporary phenomenon. Though the present form perishes, another form which is neither the same nor absolutely different takes its place, according to the potential thought-vibration generated at the death moment, because the Karmic force which propels the life-flux still survives. It is this last thought, which is technically called Reproductive (janaka) Karma, that determines the state of a person in his subsequent birth. This may be either a good or bad Karma.

As unlikely as the Christian belief in resurrection.

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post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Could be he was agnostic....

Agnosticism deals with knowledge and knowledge only, it does not mean "unsure" like people seem to think it means, it is the position that the nature of reality cannot be truly known. One can be agnostic and also atheist or theist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I think you are reading a lot in there.

Also, it's much easier to read into your comments the fact that you seem to think there is something "wrong" with being an atheist.
Methinks thou dost protest too much.

There's nothing wrong with atheism. It's not a disease, it's the triumph of reason over superstition. I would maintain that there is more to admire about atheists than non-atheists.

respect given!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Non-theist is the most accurate description.

Atheism is based on reason and logic.
Buddhism (no offence to Buddhists), still has a lot of mysticism/ritual in it and in many places the Buddha himself is revered as a god.

Karma for instance is an irrational, magical concept.

There are several sects of Buddhism, and I know at least one is textbook atheistic (meaning no belief in a deity of any kind) superstition does not negate atheist except in its materialistic form.

As with theism, atheism is a broad brush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Most intellectuals are atheists, so it's surprising to think Steve might have believed in magic and the like. I suspect he was more interested in the meditation and calm aspects of budhism rather than any illogical belief in super powers and fairy tales.

Whatever he believed in though, holding a christian ceremony with all the unpleasant baggage that entails seems a perverse and disrespectful way to see him off.

I doubt he had a Christian ceremony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Buddhism has it's fountain of knowledge from Hinduism.

How anyone can classify it as Atheism truly seems to miss the roots of it's origin.

Same reason we don't call Catholicism and other Christian sects Pagan.
post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

That's still a very different thing from being atheist. Atheism is a religion, it's staking a position of faith in "not", rather than just not thinking about it one way or the other.

It's NOT a religion because "faith" is not the reason for denying the existence of a deity. It's rather a question of philosophy.

Society often reverses the burden of proof when talking about religion. The burden of proving the existence of something falls on the shoulders of those who made the claim, otherwise you wouldn't be able to tell your kids that fairies, Santa and the Easter Bunny don't exist and be right, since there is no way to prove that they don't.

Also, I always thought Steve practiced a Buddhist lifestyle, not the religion proper. In my point of view, he was either an atheist, an agnostic, or a deist, but a theist he was not.

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post #46 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I don't have anything to base this on either, but I always got the impression that while Steve may have dabbled in Buddhism when he was younger, that religion of any kind was not something that he was very concerned with.

That's still a very different thing from being atheist. Atheism is a religion, it's staking a position of faith in "not", rather than just not thinking about it one way or the other.

I'm very excited to get the biography when it comes out to see how much of that kind of personal stuff is revealed.

oh my how could I miss this.

Just a question.

Is theism a religion?

Naturalistic atheism (the main "Sect" of atheism it seems) is hardly religious in any way. Those who define themselves as such follow no doctrine, no dogma, have no ceremonies, nothing in common beyond a belief in a natural universe.
post #47 of 81
Sounds like a nice memorial and how Steve touched the lives of a lot of people, even among his peers and contemporaries.

It is a shame that all the kind remarks and warm remembrances come after the fact. It's like when you lose a family member and opine that you wished you told them you loved them more often.

Rest well Steve.
/
/
/

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post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

This is probably true. Memorial services are for the benefit of the living, and Steve had an affinity for Palo Alto, but not for religious reasons.

Thanks for weighing in on this. It seemed that many in the thread were equating a memorial with a funeral. The funeral, whatever form it took, occurred last week. From what I have heard I assume he was buried and not cremated, which kind of surprised me. Although he may have been cremated and his ashes interred. At least there is nothing to suggest that there was any of that cryogenic stuff. That would have been creepy and out of character from the little I know of him.
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post #49 of 81
You are correct Jobs was a buddhist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I would have assumed Jobs would have had a Buddhist ceremony, but I'm not 100% sure if he even was one. He certainly did not sound like a "Christian"... he sounded more like an atheist.
post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I would have assumed Jobs would have had a Buddhist ceremony, but I'm not 100% sure if he even was one. He certainly did not sound like a "Christian"... he sounded more like an atheist.

Because I doubt you could identify one from speech in general conversation.
post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Highly offensive to whom?

So now I am required to withhold my faith just because you are an atheist? I am talking about them, not you - so if you are not one of them, you have no right to feel offended; I am just expressing my views.

Chill out, Sir.

You have repeatedly indicated that if someone isn't following the Christian faith that there is something wrong with them. That is a ridiculously and highly offensive point of view. By definition ones faith can not be any more right nor wrong than anybody else's.
post #52 of 81
If I had to guess, at least a couple segments will be made public...


Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

My guess is there is and the Jobs family will control distribution. It will probably be sent to the attendees and people on the guest list who were unable to attend the private ceremony.

Note that Steve and Laurene Jobs have been very private people and limited public access to their personal lives.

It would be totally out of character if the family released a public video of a private, invitation-only event.
post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Is theism a religion?

Only if you use the phrase "belief system" with "religion" interchangeably.

A belief becomes a religion when there is some sort of organized system of behaviors, symbols, etc. that unites the believer with a group of other people who have the same beliefs.

Believing that there is some sort of deity (or deities) isn't a religion. However, if you perform certain rituals, read certain passages from a book, sing particular songs, go to a specific location where like-minded individuals congregate, then yes, it's a religion, whether it be dancing around a particular tree in the forest, or muttering a few words, standing up and down in unison and eating a cracker.

True religion is an institutionalized system.
post #54 of 81
This has often been referred to as the public memorial. It was not public. It was by invitation only, and the media couldn't get anywhere near it. I fully understand the family and close friends having a small private memorial. That was entirely appropriate. None of us needed to intrude in that. But I regret that this larger memorial was not televised so that the millions of us who thought so much of this incredible man could share and hear some of the wonderful things that were said.

It is common to televise the "public" memorial services of famous people. If they didn't want to televise it live, they could have made a video available afterwards. Maybe we'll be allowed to see the memorial at the Apple campus but I doubt it.

If the exclusion of the public was at the request of the family, I respect that. They certainly have that right. None of us can fully appreciate their loss, but that's not to say that we haven't felt a great loss in Steve's passing. I shared the shock and sadness of millions around the world. I wish I could have heard the heartfelt words spoken at this public memorial. Maybe we will eventually. I hope so.

In the meantime, I join millions in celebrating Steve Jobs wonder life.
post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

oh my how could I miss this.

Just a question.

Is theism a religion?

Naturalistic atheism (the main "Sect" of atheism it seems) is hardly religious in any way. Those who define themselves as such follow no doctrine, no dogma, have no ceremonies, nothing in common beyond a belief in a natural universe.

I'd say it's a category on which other religions fit into, but can also be a by itself

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post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Karma for instance is an irrational, magical concept.

Generally, I like your posts.

But you really should stay away from concepts about which you are clueless.

That said, it's not the first time that it has defied the understanding of even smart people.
post #57 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Buddhism has it's fountain of knowledge from Hinduism.

How anyone can classify it as Atheism truly seems to miss the roots of it's origin.

Agreed.
post #58 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Generally, I like your posts.

But you really should stay away from concepts about which you are clueless.

That said, it's not the first time that it has defied the understanding of even smart people.

Oh, here we go... If it's considered irrational by rational people, certainly it must be beyond their level of comprehension, there's no way they are correct, no sir.

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post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Agreed.

Hmm? Hinduism in itself is a mish-mash of multiple beliefs and schools of beliefs. Hinduism itself possesses an atheistic branch

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post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

This the mysticism part of Buddhism:


As unlikely as the Christian belief in resurrection.

The Karma [Law of Cause and Effect] dictates the raising and lowering of one's state of ascension to a higher plane of existence [pure energy, to go to the extreme] and with each incarnation 1.) one relives lessons they failed to overcome in their previous culmination of lives, a.) by either maintaining the past life's accumulated level of awareness without overcoming those lessons [unknown to them and only exposed through experience] , 1b.) they evolve in other areas [new experiences without knowing these are important levels of evolution] while still failing in areas prior to this current [keeping them in a wait state], 2.) or they manage to overcome lessons and thus cut ties with past life experiences allowing them to evolve.

All of it presumes one must meditate and though a path of introspection raising upon the planes [each state of yoga has a specific chakra and awareness attributed to it] of singularity one can reach the state of Samadhi and ``understand'' their Way, their True Will, their purpose in life and to do that purpose.

Jnana, Raja, Kharma and Bhakti Yoga, along with Hatha Yoga teach anyone basic principles of inner illumination. Besides better conditioning the body through improved circulation, better flexibility [stronger tendons, ligaments, etc], and the ability to control the breath you tend to become a more centered and purpose driven individual.

It's also free from Dogma.

Whether one reincarnates or not as the Law of Conservation of Energy still holds true regarding Enery and Matter, the precepts of taking ownership of your actions is a universal principle that no Dogma can take claim of creating and thus dictating how one can repent their actions of the past.
post #61 of 81
Can we NOT make this a religious argument?

It's obvious no one here really has any clue as to what faith Steve Jobs chose to follow, if at all.

I'll bet he wouldn't care less what any of us thought about it either.

If people want to speculate, fine.

Just don't be a pathetic sissy and start crying about how you got "offended" by some comment.

If you're that easily offended, 1. Toughen the hell up. 2. Shut the hell up.




I use to enjoy reading comments here at AI (occasionally posting myself). I chose AppleInsider to be my primary source for Apple related rumors and such because the community here would inspire thoughtful debates and could articulate them as such.

I don't see that very often anymore.
post #62 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCad View Post

This has often been referred to as the public memorial. It was not public. It was by invitation only, and the media couldn't get anywhere near it.

Where is it been referred to as "public"? No one here has referred to it as a public event; the original post specifically said "invitation only".

As a matter of fact, I think every article I've encountered has specifically mentioned that this was a private/invitation only memorial service. No one is saying it was public even though there are quite a few people in tech forums who seem to feel entitled to media coverage as though it were a public event.

If this is being "often referred to" as a public memorial, please provide sources. I'm not seeing anything and I think you're making this up yourself.

Note that forum comments don't count. Real articles on real news sites only. Let's see your sources.
post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Only if you use the phrase "belief system" with "religion" interchangeably.

A belief becomes a religion when there is some sort of organized system of behaviors, symbols, etc. that unites the believer with a group of other people who have the same beliefs.

Believing that there is some sort of deity (or deities) isn't a religion. However, if you perform certain rituals, read certain passages from a book, sing particular songs, go to a specific location where like-minded individuals congregate, then yes, it's a religion, whether it be dancing around a particular tree in the forest, or muttering a few words, standing up and down in unison and eating a cracker.

True religion is an institutionalized system.

My point was to point out how ridiculous it is to call something broad like atheism a religion. Theism is a broad brush. It is a belief in God or gods. Nothing more or less.
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

I'd say it's a category on which other religions fit into, but can also be a by itself

Theism cannot be a religion in and of itself just as a vehicle cannot be a car in and of itself.
post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Hmm? Hinduism in itself is a mish-mash of multiple beliefs and schools of beliefs. Hinduism itself possesses an atheistic branch

Join the clueless crowd.
post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Oh, here we go... If it's considered irrational by rational people, certainly it must be beyond their level of comprehension, there's no way they are correct, no sir.

So, explain to us why "they are correct"?

(Unless, of course, you're clueless overall on this issue, as I just noted.)
post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The Karma [Law of Cause and Effect] dictates the raising and lowering of one's state of ascension to a higher plane of existence [pure energy, to go to the extreme] and with each incarnation 1.) one relives lessons they failed to overcome in their previous culmination of lives, a.) by either maintaining the past life's accumulated level of awareness without overcoming those lessons [unknown to them and only exposed through experience] , 1b.) they evolve in other areas [new experiences without knowing these are important levels of evolution] while still failing in areas prior to this current [keeping them in a wait state], 2.) or they manage to overcome lessons and thus cut ties with past life experiences allowing them to evolve.

All of it presumes one must meditate and though a path of introspection raising upon the planes [each state of yoga has a specific chakra and awareness attributed to it] of singularity one can reach the state of Samadhi and ``understand'' their Way, their True Will, their purpose in life and to do that purpose.

Jnana, Raja, Kharma and Bhakti Yoga, along with Hatha Yoga teach anyone basic principles of inner illumination. Besides better conditioning the body through improved circulation, better flexibility [stronger tendons, ligaments, etc], and the ability to control the breath you tend to become a more centered and purpose driven individual.

It's also free from Dogma.

Whether one reincarnates or not as the Law of Conservation of Energy still holds true regarding Enery and Matter, the precepts of taking ownership of your actions is a universal principle that no Dogma can take claim of creating and thus dictating how one can repent their actions of the past.

Dude, i'm I am really happy you chose to share that with us since we love you. If had said that your real life friends they would be taking you away in hand cuffs on your way to the looney bin.

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post #68 of 81
Yes +1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCad View Post

This has often been referred to as the public memorial. It was not public. It was by invitation only, and the media couldn't get anywhere near it. I fully understand the family and close friends having a small private memorial. That was entirely appropriate. None of us needed to intrude in that. But I regret that this larger memorial was not televised so that the millions of us who thought so much of this incredible man could share and hear some of the wonderful things that were said.

It is common to televise the "public" memorial services of famous people. If they didn't want to televise it live, they could have made a video available afterwards. Maybe we'll be allowed to see the memorial at the Apple campus but I doubt it.

If the exclusion of the public was at the request of the family, I respect that. They certainly have that right. None of us can fully appreciate their loss, but that's not to say that we haven't felt a great loss in Steve's passing. I shared the shock and sadness of millions around the world. I wish I could have heard the heartfelt words spoken at this public memorial. Maybe we will eventually. I hope so.

In the meantime, I join millions in celebrating Steve Jobs wonder life.
post #69 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Thanks for weighing in on this. It seemed that many in the thread were equating a memorial with a funeral. The funeral, whatever form it took, occurred last week. From what I have heard I assume he was buried and not cremated, which kind of surprised me. Although he may have been cremated and his ashes interred. At least there is nothing to suggest that there was any of that cryogenic stuff. That would have been creepy and out of character from the little I know of him.

I dunno about creepy. I hear Walt Disney's frozen head is hidden away in the Disney Vault, along with that racist cut of "Song of the South".

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post #70 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotRs View Post

Can we NOT make this a religious argument?

This is the Internet: All arguments are religious. Especially the ones about Apple.

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post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

This is the Internet: All arguments are religious. Especially the ones about Apple.

hahaha, loved your comment.

I also really enjoyed this thread, and reserve my answer for tomorrow when I hope it will still be active.
post #72 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The Karma [Law of Cause and Effect] dictates the raising and lowering of one's state of ascension to a higher plane of existence [pure energy, to go to the extreme] and with each incarnation 1.) one relives lessons they failed to overcome in their previous culmination of lives, a.) by either maintaining the past life's accumulated level of awareness without overcoming those lessons [unknown to them and only exposed through experience] , 1b.) they evolve in other areas [new experiences without knowing these are important levels of evolution] while still failing in areas prior to this current [keeping them in a wait state], 2.) or they manage to overcome lessons and thus cut ties with past life experiences allowing them to evolve.

All of it presumes one must meditate and though a path of introspection raising upon the planes [each state of yoga has a specific chakra and awareness attributed to it] of singularity one can reach the state of Samadhi and ``understand'' their Way, their True Will, their purpose in life and to do that purpose.

Jnana, Raja, Kharma and Bhakti Yoga, along with Hatha Yoga teach anyone basic principles of inner illumination. Besides better conditioning the body through improved circulation, better flexibility [stronger tendons, ligaments, etc], and the ability to control the breath you tend to become a more centered and purpose driven individual.

It's also free from Dogma.

Whether one reincarnates or not as the Law of Conservation of Energy still holds true regarding Enery and Matter, the precepts of taking ownership of your actions is a universal principle that no Dogma can take claim of creating and thus dictating how one can repent their actions of the past.

I really enjoyed your post, although I found the last sentence a bit obfuscated. But thanks for an eloquent summation of buddhism and yoga that reflects my views too, with the disclaimer of course that these principles, a lot of the time only remain in theory, as in practice buddhism and yoga cater for a lot of people's religious and existential needs, and is thus, predictably subverted or reinterpreted at will to control people and exercise power.
post #73 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotRs View Post

Can we NOT make this a religious argument?

It's obvious no one here really has any clue as to what faith Steve Jobs chose to follow, if at all.

I'll bet he wouldn't care less what any of us thought about it either.

If people want to speculate, fine.

Just don't be a pathetic sissy and start crying about how you got "offended" by some comment.

If you're that easily offended, 1. Toughen the hell up. 2. Shut the hell up.




I use to enjoy reading comments here at AI (occasionally posting myself). I chose AppleInsider to be my primary source for Apple related rumors and such because the community here would inspire thoughtful debates and could articulate them as such.

I don't see that very often anymore.

IMO, this entire thread is "Off Topic", not "General Discussion" but it was started by Kasper... so....

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post #74 of 81
On Sunday I had been aware of the brief tidbits in the press that Steve's memorial might take place at the Stanford Memorial Church on Sunday evening. We live just 1 mile away, and while out for a bike ride I just decided to ride through the Stanford inner campus late in the afternoon - just to see. It was clear the rumors would be prove to be correct. There were lots of (mostly) men in black suits getting themselves organized behind the Memorial Church and in the Stanford Quad, not for a wedding or church service, but as (I guessed) discrete security for a high-profile memorial.

Reconstructing the chronology after the memorial, I was lucky that I rode by about 30 minutes before they restricted access to the area, and no one bothered me. There were no cars at the Stanford Oval, which I had never seen before. There were candles (not yet lit) lining the path through the oval. Then I rode by the old Mudd Chemistry building towards the Cantor Arts Museum with the Rodin sculpture garden. Caterers, etc were busy setting up tables with umbrellas and lots of kerosene heaters on the lawn. It was clear everyone was doing what they could to make the memorial memorable and meaningful.

So....., why Stanford Memorial Church? With no insight into his family's wishes, I can only guess. The church is absolutely beautiful architecturally. Quite simply it's the most beautiful place around here, and its location in the center of a private university provides a plausible venue for a meaningful and thoughtful and celebratory memorial. There's no need to look any deeper than that. It's only 2-3 miles from their home, and the church is used for all kinds of events - as it should be. The stained glass windows, spectacular wooden arches and beautiful ceiling paintings cause the jaws to drop when anyone enters, regardless of their faith or heritage. The Dalai Lama has spoken in the church several times. It's also a great venue for intimate music - no amplification usually needed.

It's a beautiful and spiritual space for a memorial. I'm glad it was made available to them at this time. I'm glad their memorial could be privately held without incident or publicity or gawkers or the Westboro Baptist Church. In general the residents around here respected the Jobs family's privacy while Steve was alive, and I'm glad that the local community (Palo Alto and Stanford) supported them during Steve's passing and memorial with continuing empathy and respect for their privacy. Even though I obviously wasn't there, I am sure it was a beautiful memorial in a spectacular venue.
post #75 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

I have been following Steve Jobs since 1978 and feel so sad. What a huge loss to the world. Each day since October 5th feels like a bad dream that never ends. I still can hardly believe he's gone.

It's very sad, but Steve would've wanted all of us to live. Don't let another day go by without doing something positive. No death that I've experienced has touched me as deeply as Steve's and none have given me the clarity about my own life that I now have. I am going to stop letting the years slip away and I'm going to chase my dreams harder than ever. That's what Steve did and he's been my inspiration. Thanks Steve. You are missed, but never forgotten.
post #76 of 81
@Wanderer, thanks for the description from the bicycle pov.
post #77 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

IMO, this entire thread is "Off Topic", not "General Discussion" but it was started by Kasper... so....

How so? Seems to me it was started off the rails by none other than you.
post #78 of 81
Somehow this thread has taken a strange turn! (I mean all this religious speculations)

So thank you two for staying on topic!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

I have been following Steve Jobs since 1978 and feel so sad. What a huge loss to the world. Each day since October 5th feels like a bad dream that never ends. I still can hardly believe he's gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htoelle View Post

[Q

Steve Jobs you have gone. You left behind some very big holes.

I can only say, I am feeling exactly the same thing. Every time I'm working on one of my Mac's I feel a stab.
post #79 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Theism cannot be a religion in and of itself just as a vehicle cannot be a car in and of itself.

Yes, but then where do the plain "I believe that there's a deity and he interferes in our lives, period" crowd fits in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Join the clueless crowd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Hinduism is a diverse system of thought with beliefs spanning monotheism, polytheism, panentheism, pantheism, monism, atheism, agnosticism, gnosticism among others;[63][64][65][66] and its concept of God is complex and depends upon each individual and the tradition and philosophy followed. It is sometimes referred to as henotheistic (i.e., involving devotion to a single god while accepting the existence of others), but any such term is an overgeneralization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

So, explain to us why "they are correct"?

(Unless, of course, you're clueless overall on this issue, as I just noted.)

Maybe I should wait until you explain how you know he's "clueless"? So far mdriftmeyer's explanation of Karma is all we've got, and it proves absolutely nothing.

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

Reply
post #80 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

How so? Seems to me it was started off the rails by none other than you.

It's off topic, not "General Discussion".

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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