Friends, family & colleagues of Steve Jobs spoke at 'moving' memorial - Page 2

I think people are getting way out of their field of expertise here.
FWIW, Karma is not a cosmic system of justice, but simply translates to your own 'doing'.
There is nothing but a single, unified existence in which we're all 'god' playing a multitude of parts in a cosmic game of hide and seek. If we are all god, then anything you do, you're doing to yourself.
Its been corrupted to mean cosmic payback.

This is probably true. Memorial services are for the benefit of the living, and Steve had an affinity for Palo Alto, but not for religious reasons.

This the mysticism part of Buddhism:

As unlikely as the Christian belief in resurrection.

Agnosticism deals with knowledge and knowledge only, it does not mean "unsure" like people seem to think it means, it is the position that the nature of reality cannot be truly known. One can be agnostic and also atheist or theist.


respect given!


There are several sects of Buddhism, and I know at least one is textbook atheistic (meaning no belief in a deity of any kind) superstition does not negate atheist except in its materialistic form.

As with theism, atheism is a broad brush.


I doubt he had a Christian ceremony.


Same reason we don't call Catholicism and other Christian sects Pagan.

It's NOT a religion because "faith" is not the reason for denying the existence of a deity. It's rather a question of philosophy.

Society often reverses the burden of proof when talking about religion. The burden of proving the existence of something falls on the shoulders of those who made the claim, otherwise you wouldn't be able to tell your kids that fairies, Santa and the Easter Bunny don't exist and be right, since there is no way to prove that they don't.

Also, I always thought Steve practiced a Buddhist lifestyle, not the religion proper. In my point of view, he was either an atheist, an agnostic, or a deist, but a theist he was not.

oh my how could I miss this.

Just a question.

Is theism a religion?

Naturalistic atheism (the main "Sect" of atheism it seems) is hardly religious in any way. Those who define themselves as such follow no doctrine, no dogma, have no ceremonies, nothing in common beyond a belief in a natural universe.

Sounds like a nice memorial and how Steve touched the lives of a lot of people, even among his peers and contemporaries.

It is a shame that all the kind remarks and warm remembrances come after the fact. It's like when you lose a family member and opine that you wished you told them you loved them more often.

Rest well Steve.
/
/
/

Thanks for weighing in on this. It seemed that many in the thread were equating a memorial with a funeral. The funeral, whatever form it took, occurred last week. From what I have heard I assume he was buried and not cremated, which kind of surprised me. Although he may have been cremated and his ashes interred. At least there is nothing to suggest that there was any of that cryogenic stuff. That would have been creepy and out of character from the little I know of him.

You are correct Jobs was a buddhist.

Because I doubt you could identify one from speech in general conversation.

You have repeatedly indicated that if someone isn't following the Christian faith that there is something wrong with them. That is a ridiculously and highly offensive point of view. By definition ones faith can not be any more right nor wrong than anybody else's.

If I had to guess, at least a couple segments will be made public...

Only if you use the phrase "belief system" with "religion" interchangeably.

A belief becomes a religion when there is some sort of organized system of behaviors, symbols, etc. that unites the believer with a group of other people who have the same beliefs.

Believing that there is some sort of deity (or deities) isn't a religion. However, if you perform certain rituals, read certain passages from a book, sing particular songs, go to a specific location where like-minded individuals congregate, then yes, it's a religion, whether it be dancing around a particular tree in the forest, or muttering a few words, standing up and down in unison and eating a cracker.

True religion is an institutionalized system.

This has often been referred to as the public memorial. It was not public. It was by invitation only, and the media couldn't get anywhere near it. I fully understand the family and close friends having a small private memorial. That was entirely appropriate. None of us needed to intrude in that. But I regret that this larger memorial was not televised so that the millions of us who thought so much of this incredible man could share and hear some of the wonderful things that were said.

It is common to televise the "public" memorial services of famous people. If they didn't want to televise it live, they could have made a video available afterwards. Maybe we'll be allowed to see the memorial at the Apple campus but I doubt it.

If the exclusion of the public was at the request of the family, I respect that. They certainly have that right. None of us can fully appreciate their loss, but that's not to say that we haven't felt a great loss in Steve's passing. I shared the shock and sadness of millions around the world. I wish I could have heard the heartfelt words spoken at this public memorial. Maybe we will eventually. I hope so.

In the meantime, I join millions in celebrating Steve Jobs wonder life.

I'd say it's a category on which other religions fit into, but can also be a by itself

Generally, I like your posts.

But you really should stay away from concepts about which you are clueless.

That said, it's not the first time that it has defied the understanding of even smart people.

Agreed.

Oh, here we go... If it's considered irrational by rational people, certainly it must be beyond their level of comprehension, there's no way they are correct, no sir.

Hmm? Hinduism in itself is a mish-mash of multiple beliefs and schools of beliefs. Hinduism itself possesses an atheistic branch

The Karma [Law of Cause and Effect] dictates the raising and lowering of one's state of ascension to a higher plane of existence [pure energy, to go to the extreme] and with each incarnation 1.) one relives lessons they failed to overcome in their previous culmination of lives, a.) by either maintaining the past life's accumulated level of awareness without overcoming those lessons [unknown to them and only exposed through experience] , 1b.) they evolve in other areas [new experiences without knowing these are important levels of evolution] while still failing in areas prior to this current [keeping them in a wait state], 2.) or they manage to overcome lessons and thus cut ties with past life experiences allowing them to evolve.

All of it presumes one must meditate and though a path of introspection raising upon the planes [each state of yoga has a specific chakra and awareness attributed to it] of singularity one can reach the state of Samadhi and ``understand'' their Way, their True Will, their purpose in life and to do that purpose.

Jnana, Raja, Kharma and Bhakti Yoga, along with Hatha Yoga teach anyone basic principles of inner illumination. Besides better conditioning the body through improved circulation, better flexibility [stronger tendons, ligaments, etc], and the ability to control the breath you tend to become a more centered and purpose driven individual.

It's also free from Dogma.

Whether one reincarnates or not as the Law of Conservation of Energy still holds true regarding Enery and Matter, the precepts of taking ownership of your actions is a universal principle that no Dogma can take claim of creating and thus dictating how one can repent their actions of the past.

Can we NOT make this a religious argument?

It's obvious no one here really has any clue as to what faith Steve Jobs chose to follow, if at all.

I'll bet he wouldn't care less what any of us thought about it either.

If people want to speculate, fine.

Just don't be a pathetic sissy and start crying about how you got "offended" by some comment.

If you're that easily offended, 1. Toughen the hell up. 2. Shut the hell up.




I use to enjoy reading comments here at AI (occasionally posting myself). I chose AppleInsider to be my primary source for Apple related rumors and such because the community here would inspire thoughtful debates and could articulate them as such.

I don't see that very often anymore.

Where is it been referred to as "public"? No one here has referred to it as a public event; the original post specifically said "invitation only".

As a matter of fact, I think every article I've encountered has specifically mentioned that this was a private/invitation only memorial service. No one is saying it was public even though there are quite a few people in tech forums who seem to feel entitled to media coverage as though it were a public event.

If this is being "often referred to" as a public memorial, please provide sources. I'm not seeing anything and I think you're making this up yourself.

Note that forum comments don't count. Real articles on real news sites only. Let's see your sources.

My point was to point out how ridiculous it is to call something broad like atheism a religion. Theism is a broad brush. It is a belief in God or gods. Nothing more or less.

Theism cannot be a religion in and of itself just as a vehicle cannot be a car in and of itself.

Join the clueless crowd.

So, explain to us why "they are correct"?

(Unless, of course, you're clueless overall on this issue, as I just noted.)

Dude, i'm I am really happy you chose to share that with us since we love you. If had said that your real life friends they would be taking you away in hand cuffs on your way to the looney bin.

Yes +1!

I dunno about creepy. I hear Walt Disney's frozen head is hidden away in the Disney Vault, along with that racist cut of "Song of the South".

This is the Internet: All arguments are religious. Especially the ones about Apple.

hahaha, loved your comment.

I also really enjoyed this thread, and reserve my answer for tomorrow when I hope it will still be active.

I really enjoyed your post, although I found the last sentence a bit obfuscated. But thanks for an eloquent summation of buddhism and yoga that reflects my views too, with the disclaimer of course that these principles, a lot of the time only remain in theory, as in practice buddhism and yoga cater for a lot of people's religious and existential needs, and is thus, predictably subverted or reinterpreted at will to control people and exercise power.

IMO, this entire thread is "Off Topic", not "General Discussion" but it was started by Kasper... so....

On Sunday I had been aware of the brief tidbits in the press that Steve's memorial might take place at the Stanford Memorial Church on Sunday evening. We live just 1 mile away, and while out for a bike ride I just decided to ride through the Stanford inner campus late in the afternoon - just to see. It was clear the rumors would be prove to be correct. There were lots of (mostly) men in black suits getting themselves organized behind the Memorial Church and in the Stanford Quad, not for a wedding or church service, but as (I guessed) discrete security for a high-profile memorial.

Reconstructing the chronology after the memorial, I was lucky that I rode by about 30 minutes before they restricted access to the area, and no one bothered me. There were no cars at the Stanford Oval, which I had never seen before. There were candles (not yet lit) lining the path through the oval. Then I rode by the old Mudd Chemistry building towards the Cantor Arts Museum with the Rodin sculpture garden. Caterers, etc were busy setting up tables with umbrellas and lots of kerosene heaters on the lawn. It was clear everyone was doing what they could to make the memorial memorable and meaningful.

So....., why Stanford Memorial Church? With no insight into his family's wishes, I can only guess. The church is absolutely beautiful architecturally. Quite simply it's the most beautiful place around here, and its location in the center of a private university provides a plausible venue for a meaningful and thoughtful and celebratory memorial. There's no need to look any deeper than that. It's only 2-3 miles from their home, and the church is used for all kinds of events - as it should be. The stained glass windows, spectacular wooden arches and beautiful ceiling paintings cause the jaws to drop when anyone enters, regardless of their faith or heritage. The Dalai Lama has spoken in the church several times. It's also a great venue for intimate music - no amplification usually needed.

It's a beautiful and spiritual space for a memorial. I'm glad it was made available to them at this time. I'm glad their memorial could be privately held without incident or publicity or gawkers or the Westboro Baptist Church. In general the residents around here respected the Jobs family's privacy while Steve was alive, and I'm glad that the local community (Palo Alto and Stanford) supported them during Steve's passing and memorial with continuing empathy and respect for their privacy. Even though I obviously wasn't there, I am sure it was a beautiful memorial in a spectacular venue.

It's very sad, but Steve would've wanted all of us to live. Don't let another day go by without doing something positive. No death that I've experienced has touched me as deeply as Steve's and none have given me the clarity about my own life that I now have. I am going to stop letting the years slip away and I'm going to chase my dreams harder than ever. That's what Steve did and he's been my inspiration. Thanks Steve. You are missed, but never forgotten.

@Wanderer, thanks for the description from the bicycle pov.

How so? Seems to me it was started off the rails by none other than you.

Somehow this thread has taken a strange turn! (I mean all this religious speculations)

So thank you two for staying on topic!!



I can only say, I am feeling exactly the same thing. Every time I'm working on one of my Mac's I feel a stab.

Yes, but then where do the plain "I believe that there's a deity and he interferes in our lives, period" crowd fits in?




Maybe I should wait until you explain how you know he's "clueless"? So far mdriftmeyer's explanation of Karma is all we've got, and it proves absolutely nothing.

It's off topic, not "General Discussion".