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Apple Q4 2011 earnings disappointment attributed to iPhone transition 'hiccup' - Page 2

post #41 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Apple exceeded the guidance estimates they gave last quarter. It only delivered less than the wall street crystal ball gazers guessed at. In my book thats 'double winning'

Stock price is based on expectations of earnings more than company guidance for earnings, so you have the incorrect baseline for promoting an escalating stock price.

Did Apple do bad? No. Did they do what would be required to push the stock price up to $450 in the next month? Doesn't seem like it. Where will the stock be at the end of the year? Million dollar question.
post #42 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I think you're right, and it's become obvious... iPhone 4S sales have been disappointing so far.

4 millions on a weekend disappointing?
Really?
post #43 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I think you're right, and it's become obvious... iPhone 4S sales have been disappointing so far.

Be sarcastic all you want. The earnings call was not about 4S. You're either stupid or being deliberately obtuse. It's above you to ever admit even a single Apple misstep. If they fart, you'd think it's a quaint new scent.

Is it not possible to examine a company from more than one perspective? Are you so intellectually limited so you cannot admit this is the biggest dip in iPhone sales ever? Clearly, Apple has tacitly admitted to this themselves. So are you saying they are lying?

I can enjoy my iPhone 4, 4S, Galaxy S and still see good and bad in Apple and Samsung. Can you?
post #44 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

4 millions on a weekend disappointing?
Really?

It's a defensive attempt at sarcasm. He has never been good at it and never will be.
post #45 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

This is the biggest ever dip in iPhone sales ever (both in absolute numbers and in %?). This is the real disappointment (as opposed to not meeting analyst predictions). The cause is clear.

I really wish people would stop with the blatant falsehoods.

iPhone sales didn't dip. In fact, they were 21% over the same quarter in the previous year which is the way that cyclical businesses are typically measured.

And, as someone else pointed out, if the iPhone 4 launch were just 14 days earlier, the entire story would have been different. Doom and gloom over a 14 day window is absurd - especially when all the other news was so positive.
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post #46 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Be sarcastic all you want. The earnings call was not about 4S. You're either stupid or being deliberately obtuse. It's above you to ever admit even a single Apple misstep. If they fart, you'd think it's a quaint new scent.

Is it not possible to examine a company from more than one perspective? Are you so intellectually limited so you cannot admit this is the biggest dip in iPhone sales ever? I can enjoy my iPhone 4, 4S, Galaxy S and still see good and bad in Apple and Samsung. Can you?

I wasn't talking about this report... I was answering your damn post. Read your post... read my reply (complete with sarcasm tags)... and get back to me.

[here... I'll even help you... you talked about some stupid ass chaos theory for Apple's customers... now read my reply]

We all know who you are... nobody takes you seriously... all we ever do is laugh at your weak attempt to slander Apple.
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post #47 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Take a pill, dude. Are you going to bring up the nuclear disaster in Japan too?

Yes, Apple is clearly one of the most successful companies in the world and Wall Street calls it having "disappointing results".

If people have to take a pill to deal with this then something is out of whack.

The lies of Wall Street and the western global financial system is finally out in the open.

Just by debt restructuring Apple could buy one or two small European countries.

And get this... Apple actually has innovations, ie. value creation that has income flowing in from around the world, not just shuffling money around or printing money which is crippling the US.

Time to wake up. At least that is what Steve would've wanted. Whether wilfully or not, leaving a legacy of $80billion in real reserves has also made another final statement to how he wanted to change the world.
post #48 of 93



None of the ANALysts seem to have come to this conclusion.
post #49 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

4 millions on a weekend disappointing?
Really?

Actually, yes. They were expecting iPhone 5, and 13 million iPhone 3G customers in U.S. to jump into the queue within the first week. Didn't happen. I am interest to see to if by this Christmas 3GS users hasn't upgrade their handsets in large enough number. Wall Street's ballpark number right now is 8 million. That is what they are going to tell their clients, no matter what Apple say. Jobs can shove stock analysis aside, Cook cannot.

Numbers reported from gray markets in SEA aren't good either. Less RAM, same camera, don't recognize Thai, Chinese and Malay speech yet. iPhone 4 was almost too successful and we don't have large pool of 3GS users to draw on like US does. Most of them already left for Android which keep releasing new ones with 30% discount and more of everything every 10 months.

And for those who already carrying 4, they read specs and said 'Half a memory, same of everything, 5 weeks waiting list and no 0% interest for 10 months? No thanks.'
post #50 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

data:image/jpg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/

Whoa, something's wrong. Repost it.
post #51 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota_Steve View Post

It's a good strategy. I hold some long also. But for some quick returns on cash, very nice. Better than a bank.

I'll stretch that to 395.
post #52 of 93
@ConradJoe Do you always look at the Matrix in code?
post #53 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

Actually, yes. They were expecting iPhone 5, and 13 million iPhone 3G customers in U.S. to jump into the queue within the first week. Didn't happen. I am interest to see to if by this Christmas 3GS users hasn't upgrade their handsets in large enough number. Wall Street's ballpark number right now is 8 million. That is what they are going to tell their clients, no matter what Apple say. Jobs can shove stock analysis aside, Cook cannot.

Numbers reported from gray markets in SEA aren't good either. Less RAM, same camera, don't recognize Thai, Chinese and Malay speech yet. iPhone 4 was almost too successful and we don't have large pool of 3GS users to draw on like US does. Most of them already left for Android which keep releasing new ones with 30% discount and more of everything every 10 months.

And for those who already carrying 4, they read specs and said 'Half a memory, same of everything, 5 weeks waiting list and no 0% interest for 10 months? No thanks.'

Umm... I'm from Malaysia and trust me people will be buying as many iPhone 4S as is shipped into Malaysia. Malay speech recognition is not that important since the iPhone users will speak a variety of accented English, Malay is hardly ever spoken formally in daily use by younger people, and Cantonese-speaking people will form a non-trivial portion of Malaysian iPhone users.

BTW what are you talking about regarding the specs? The iPhone 4S camera is much better, the still and flash pictures are great, video is stabilised and 1080p, it still has 512MB of RAM and now an A5 chip. It also now has a much better antenna compared to the standard iPhone 4. It's a joy to use the iPhone 4S without a case because there is almost no reduction in signal, whereas the iPhone 4 definitely had the "weak spot" issue. Plus, the white iPhone 4S is a good reason to upgrade to a white iPhone if people haven't yet, it's nice. And, iOS5 is silky smooth on the iPhone 4S.

I agree though, the language Apple needs to add next is Mandarin. Sorry, Europeans.
post #54 of 93
Ah I see. So Seri can be turn off for non-English market and you won't miss much.

Still, I still stand by my old point that those who want iPhone 4 in Thailand at least has done so already. All 3 main carriers have them and scalpers brought them over from Hong Kong and Mainland in huge number. No restriction or shortage to speak of. And 3Gs now pile in trade-in stalls for the price of entry-level Android.

Us have 13 million 3GS supposedly waiting for the contract to expire. We don't have them here. I just don't see where buyers will come from this year, honest.
post #55 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

Stock price is based on expectations of earnings more than company guidance for earnings, so you have the incorrect baseline for promoting an escalating stock price.

That's where the logic fails. If the stock price is to be based on an expectation of future earnings, then the blowout $37 M guidance given by Apple for the 4th quarter should have increased the stock price, not decreased it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

{4 M iPhone 4S sales were disappointing?} Actually, yes. They were expecting iPhone 5, and 13 million iPhone 3G customers in U.S. to jump into the queue within the first week. Didn't happen.'

That's nonsense. It was the fastest selling phone of all time (by far). In fact, it appears to be the fastest selling standalone electronic product of all time. Apple sold twice as many as the number of iPhone 4 phones sold in the first weekend - in spite of all the complaints about it not being a real upgrade. How many more would they have sold if it was the iPhone 5? or iPhone 2,000? or iPhone superdeluxpeachykeenphone?

Calling the 4S a disappointment is ridiculous.
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post #56 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I really wish people would stop with the blatant falsehoods.

iPhone sales didn't dip. In fact, they were 21% over the same quarter in the previous year which is the way that cyclical businesses are typically measured.

And, as someone else pointed out, if the iPhone 4 launch were just 14 days earlier, the entire story would have been different. Doom and gloom over a 14 day window is absurd - especially when all the other news was so positive.

Blatant lie?

Note that you're the one deliberately adding the qualifier of year over year comparison, which is not what I stated. To twist someone else's words and call them a blatant liar is juvenile and amateurish libel. But I understand well that's your schtick.

This is the biggest dip in iPhone sales ever from quarter to quarter. Why dance around it?
post #57 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

Ah I see. So Seri can be turn off for non-English market and you won't miss much.

Still, I still stand by my old point that those who want iPhone 4 in Thailand at least has done so already. All 3 main carriers have them and scalpers brought them over from Hong Kong and Mainland in huge number. No restriction or shortage to speak of. And 3Gs now pile in trade-in stalls for the price of entry-level Android.

Us have 13 million 3GS supposedly waiting for the contract to expire. We don't have them here. I just don't see where buyers will come from this year, honest.

Do you mean iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S? I'm sure there's a lot of demand in Thailand for iPhone 4S. Scalpers I don't think have enough to supply Thailand to the level that everyone is happy with enough iPhone 4S supply.
post #58 of 93
Perhaps jrgosta and Apple][ put their entire life savings in Apple stock and bet on AAPL hit $500. They will say anything to keep the day of reckoning when AAPL dip below $300 away.
post #59 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I wasn't talking about this report... I was answering your damn post. Read your post... read my reply (complete with sarcasm tags)... and get back to me.

[here... I'll even help you... you talked about some stupid ass chaos theory for Apple's customers... now read my reply]

We all know who you are... nobody takes you seriously... all we ever do is laugh at your weak attempt to slander Apple.

Slander Apple? First of all, you don't understand the definition of slander.

Second, I'm one of the few around here who posts sentiments pro and against Apple and Android. But I understand why those with biased view should laugh at balanced perspectives. I get that, to you, those who do not wear blinders must look silly.
post #60 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Here's the real irony. Apple has $80 billion dollars. That's *real money*, not the made up stuff Wall Street plays with. Due to the fractional reserve system Apple itself can be an $800 billion dollar bank.

I don't think that you really understand fractional reserve banking. How can Apple be an "$800 Billion dollar bank" with only $80 billion in capitalization?

Fractional reserve? Explain please, if you can.
post #61 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Just by debt restructuring Apple could buy one or two small European countries.



Apple has no debt to restructure.

Why do you say this sort of stuff? Fractional reserve? Restructure debt?

There has got to be stuff you know more about than this financial stuff. Chill.
post #62 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Apple has no debt to restructure.

Why do you say this sort of stuff? Fractional reserve? Restructure debt?

There has got to be stuff you know more about than this financial stuff. Chill.

Maybe he implied that Apple should restructure so as to incur some debt. Be open-minded to occasional, if unintended, brilliance.
post #63 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

Perhaps jrgosta and Apple][ put their entire life savings in Apple stock and bet on AAPL hit $500. They will say anything to keep the day of reckoning when AAPL dip below $300 away.

That's as silly and amateurish as what they are saying.
post #64 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's where the logic fails. If the stock price is to be based on an expectation of future earnings, then the blowout $37 M guidance given by Apple for the 4th quarter should have increased the stock price, not decreased it.




Har! Logic!

What if the expectation was that the guidance would be $40M?

Can you explain your logic?
post #65 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I agree though, the language Apple needs to add next is Mandarin. Sorry, Europeans.

It's coming in 2012. Or, as Siri will then say, 它在2012年的到來
post #66 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Do you mean iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S? I'm sure there's a lot of demand in Thailand for iPhone 4S. Scalpers I don't think have enough to supply Thailand to the level that everyone is happy with enough iPhone 4S.

4, not 4S. There are lots of demand but they are still finite numbers. The real limits of demand was price though. 4 came out in Oct 2010 with ฿23,000 for 16GB model. ฿18,000 used.

For Thailand market, ฿19,000 turned out to be a magic number of threshold price Thai buyers are willing to pay, be it cash or 0% interest over 10 months. Samsung Galaxy S2 arrived with that number and basically set the price ceiling here. BB Torch 9860, Bold 9900 and HTC EVO 3D came in at ฿20,000 and now gone. Unbelievable, but it is.

The supply issue only exists in 2010. From Jan 2011, so many scalped iPhone entered a country that every gray market shops have them on cash and carry basis since Feb. Even today you can get one just put the cash down, like so. There are THAT many.

I do not know if 'official' iPhone 4S can crack it with 4GB memory for ฿19,000 and 1-year contract for ฿650++ every month with Galaxy S2 draw the line in the sand at ฿18,900 with no contract, and 10-months payment now available for every smart phone above ฿6,000. So buy one and get 20-Baht prepaid SIM card and you are on your way.

For us Asians who has credit cards and have no qualms about paying by installments for 10 months; pay one-tenth the price and you carry the phone out the door, that is enough of an incentive to jump.
post #67 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

That's as silly and amateurish as what they are saying.

If only it wasn't true. AAPL are being treated like they are gold and oil future now. And subject to the same speculation forces.
post #68 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I don't think that you really understand fractional reserve banking. How can Apple be an "$800 Billion dollar bank" with only $80 billion in capitalization?

Fractional reserve? Explain please, if you can.

Let's say Apple says tomorrow, we are becoming a bank, nothing else. It has $80 billion in capital. It can now start giving out loans to people, businesses, governments, and so on. Let's say someone signs up for a $100,000 loan. The moment they sign up for that loan, Apple can then register that as an asset. $100,000 owed to Apple plus interest income.

Now, you might say, well, okay, if Apple loaned $100,000 then Apple must have had that $100,000 set aside for it, right? Wrong. Apple only needs to set aside 10% (or less, depending on how you fudge things). So Apple needs to only set aside $10,000. As the process continues, because Apple only needs to really "have" 10% of what they are loaning out, potentially they can loan out $800billion. Once they have loaned out that amount, that is registered as their assets, because that's what people will owe them, $800billion, plus interest income coming in every day. Boom! $800billion bank.

I don't even come close to understanding the full complexity of it. My example above is the most basic explanation of the system.

This is really a secret that the bankers do not want you to know, and is nowhere near even being taught in school. How fast TrainA arrives ahead of TrainB? That's for babies compared to the concepts of fractional reserve and "money as debt".

Banking is the biggest scam perpetrated in our lifetime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sKwwAaCU

(See the YouTube video in the post below if the above seems too "long")
post #69 of 93
The process of money creation as described by the Federal Reserve itself, if anyone thinks these are just wacko anarchists:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Modern_Money_Mechanics

A translation of which, goes something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWl7Mb49vSk
post #70 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

If only it wasn't true. AAPL are being treated like they are gold and oil future now. And subject to the same speculation forces.

That is, of course, nonsense. Apple's share price is not predominantly based on speculation. If you look at virtually any measure of corporate valuation (such as price/earnings ratio, profit growth, etc), Apple's stock is significantly undervalued compared to the rest of the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Let's say Apple says tomorrow, we are becoming a bank, nothing else. It has $80 billion in capital. It can now start giving out loans to people, businesses, governments, and so on. Let's say someone signs up for a $100,000 loan. The moment they sign up for that loan, Apple can then register that as an asset. $100,000 owed to Apple plus interest income.

Now, you might say, well, okay, if Apple loaned $100,000 then Apple must have had that $100,000 set aside for it, right? Wrong. Apple only needs to set aside 10% (or less, depending on how you fudge things). So Apple needs to only set aside $10,000. As the process continues, because Apple only needs to really "have" 10% of what they are loaning out, potentially they can loan out $800billion. Once they have loaned out that amount, that is registered as their assets, because that's what people will owe them, $800billion, plus interest income coming in every day. Boom! $800billion bank.

I don't even come close to understanding the full complexity of it. My example above is the most basic explanation of the system.

This is really a secret that the bankers do not want you to know, and is nowhere near even being taught in school. How fast TrainA arrives ahead of TrainB? That's for babies compared to the concepts of fractional reserve and "money as debt".

Banking is the biggest scam perpetrated in our lifetime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sKwwAaCU

You're leaving out the biggest part of the picture - which really explains things. If Apple has $80B in cash, they could leverage that by using money from the Federal reserve for the loans. So if they loan someone $100,000, to use your example, $10 K of that would come out of Apple's cash and the Fed would loan them the remaining 90%. Again, it's not that simple, but it amounts to leverage - the same kind of leverage that allows you to buy a $200,000 house with only $20,000 down.
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post #71 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That is, of course, nonsense. Apple's share price is not predominantly based on speculation. If you look at virtually any measure of corporate valuation (such as price/earnings ratio, profit growth, etc), Apple's stock is significantly undervalued compared to the rest of the market.

You are not helping your case. Keep repeating the mantra of AAPL in undervalued and has more to run only convinced me that I am right. You are betting BIG on the stock.
post #72 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

You are not helping your case. Keep repeating the mantra of AAPL in undervalued and has more to run only convinced me that I am right. You are betting BIG on the stock.

Actually, no, I'm not. Apple represents about 3% of my retirement portfolio and is not even close to my largest holding. It's only about 1% of my entire net worth.

It's not just me saying it - have a look at Fortune Magazine:
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/...8217;t-matter/

Apple is trading at 8 times projected 2012 earnings - or only 5 times cash-adjusted projected 2012 earnings. That is absolutely absurd given Apple's margins and growth rates. Can you name ANY other company with comparable profit and sales growth which is trading at that level?

Furthermore, they make a strong case as to why the analysts were out of line with their projections.
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post #73 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You're leaving out the biggest part of the picture - which really explains things. If Apple has $80B in cash, they could leverage that by using money from the Federal reserve for the loans. So if they loan someone $100,000, to use your example, $10 K of that would come out of Apple's cash and the Fed would loan them the remaining 90%. Again, it's not that simple, but it amounts to leverage - the same kind of leverage that allows you to buy a $200,000 house with only $20,000 down.

Yup, it kinda has to do with leverage.

But as I understand it, Apple doesn't have to get that remaining 90% from the Fed... It doesn't even exist. If they loan someone $100,000, it is the borrower that owes $100,000, hence Apple "having" $100,000 even though they actually only have $10,000.

Common sense tells us that, but wait a minute, the borrower must have $90,000 from somewhere since Apple only really "gave them" $10,000. So perhaps the Fed has printed $90,000 of notes for Apple, and Apple gave $10,000 of their own notes.

This is all a fallacy. As low as 3% of all the money supply in the US exists as physical currency.

Hence, even assuming Apple has $10,000 reserve of the loan in physical notes, the $100,000 loaned to the borrower in reality doesn't even exist as physical cash.

Printed notes are no longer relevant in today's world, they are merely instruments of debt used for extremely minor transactions. Whatever cash we use for day to day use is simply a relic of the past, for the human sensation of the touch of money, and the seeming "quickness" or "security" of exchanging bills and notes instead of credit or debit cards. Think about what makes up most of commerce - credit cards, cars, houses, gadgets, phone bills, salary... Almost all of that in modern economies never even have any physical printed-note basis to them.

With Apple's $100,000 loan, it just created $90,000 out of thin air. Even the $10,000 it has as reserves is an instrument of someone else (another bank usually) that has *promised to pay* Apple $10,000. If Apple's $10,000 is US Dollar Bills then yes, the Fed owes them $10,000. If that money, as it is now, is from various sources, then the Fed may not even be involved at all. Bottom line, the $90,000 that Apple can create out of thin air from a $10,000 reserve does not involve the Fed nor anything at all... It just, creates money by nature of the $100,000 loan being made.

The Fed creates money to start with by depositing say $1 million in a bank. (see the YouTube video above). Because that's how it "seeds" a bank so that that bank can then increase the money supply to about $10 million. That's only the green and blue lines in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...ney_supply.svg because by nature of the system that red line increases at a much higher rate.

The banking system is so twisted and inbred once you realise its true nature it is both eye-opening but also truly sickening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation
post #74 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Let's say Apple says tomorrow, we are becoming a bank, nothing else. It has $80 billion in capital. It can now start giving out loans to people, businesses, governments, and so on. Let's say someone signs up for a $100,000 loan. The moment they sign up for that loan, Apple can then register that as an asset. $100,000 owed to Apple plus interest income.

Now, you might say, well, okay, if Apple loaned $100,000 then Apple must have had that $100,000 set aside for it, right? Wrong. Apple only needs to set aside 10% (or less, depending on how you fudge things). So Apple needs to only set aside $10,000. As the process continues, because Apple only needs to really "have" 10% of what they are loaning out, potentially they can loan out $800billion. Once they have loaned out that amount, that is registered as their assets, because that's what people will owe them, $800billion, plus interest income coming in every day. Boom! $800billion bank.

I don't even come close to understanding the full complexity of it. My example above is the most basic explanation of the system.

This is really a secret that the bankers do not want you to know, and is nowhere near even being taught in school. How fast TrainA arrives ahead of TrainB? That's for babies compared to the concepts of fractional reserve and "money as debt".

Banking is the biggest scam perpetrated in our lifetime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sKwwAaCU

(See the YouTube video in the post below if the above seems too "long")



You are confused. If Apple tried to lend out $800B, and only had $80B to fund the loans, Apple would go bankrupt immediately upon the $800B being spent. They would give checkbooks to their borrowers, with checking account balances in the aggregate of $800B, and as soon as $81B of checks were cashed, the rest of them would all bounce.

Yes, if a new bank exists with $80B in deposits, the money supply could grow by $800B. That is dependent upon the banking system as a whole being able to create money.

But nobody with assets of $80B can give somebody else $800B.

The concepts you need to understand are the differences between deposits and assets, and the multiplier effect of the commercial banking system as a whole. You need multiple banks to grow the money supply. Not just one bank.
post #75 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

You are confused. If Apple tried to lend out $800B, and only had $80B to fund the loans, Apple would go bankrupt immediately upon the $800B being spent. They would give checkbooks to their borrowers, with checking account balances in the aggregate of $800B, and as soon as $81B of checks were cashed, the rest of them would all bounce.

Yes, if a new bank exists with $80B in deposits, the money supply could grow by $800B. That is dependent upon the banking system as a whole being able to create money.

But nobody with assets of $80B can give somebody else $800B.

The concepts you need to understand are the differences between deposits and assets, and the multiplier effect of the commercial banking system as a whole. You need multiple banks to grow the money supply. Not just one bank.

Sorry, but you're the one who doesn't understand. Banks can borrow money from the Fed and can therefore loan out more money than they have.
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post #76 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Sorry, but you're the one who doesn't understand. Banks can borrow money from the Fed and can therefore loan out more money than they have.

Yes, banks can borrow money. We are not talking about Apple borrowing money. We are talking about Apple becoming a bank and lending out ten times what they have on hand. Sure - they can get more if they borrow. The banking system as a whole creates money. Individual banks do not.


Edit: If you can understand this passage from Wikipedia, the entire picture will become clear:

For an individual bank, the deposit is considered a liability whereas the loan it gives out and the reserves are considered assets. Deposits will always be equal to loans plus a bank's reserves, since loans and reserves are created from deposits. This is the basis for a bank's balance sheet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking

But the terms used in the passage need to be fully understood. Individual bank, deposit, liability, loan, reserves, assets. Without a clear understanding, it is easy to confuse the system as a whole with a new bank which has reserves of $80B.


Second edit:

Step one: Deposits at Apple Bank = $80B.

Step 2: Given a 10% reserve requirement, Apple is able to lend a total of $72B to third parties.

Translation:

Deposits ($80B) will always be equal to loans ($72B) plus a bank's reserves ($8B), since loans and reserves are created from deposits.
post #77 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Again - too defensive. iPhone sales were disappointing.

Yes, 17 million+ sales of a phone that is more than a year old, and which has been rumoured to be replaced for months is 'disappointing'. What frame of reference are we using here? Because at whatever angle you view it, from planet earth, that's an astounding number, compared to any other company and any other product in existence. But hey, this is Apple, and their numbers should match the magical, and random ones 'analysts' conjure up.
post #78 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Yes, 17 million+ sales of a phone that is more than a year old, and which has been rumoured to be replaced for months is 'disappointing'. What frame of reference are we using here?

The frame of reference is the expected rate of sales and the rate of increase in sales. HTH.
post #79 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Sorry, but you're the one who doesn't understand. Banks can borrow money from the Fed and can therefore loan out more money than they have.

Seriously dude, that's just not how banks work, even in today's world.
post #80 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

The frame of reference is the expected rate of sales and the rate of increase in sales. HTH.

I'd say it's really about sequential quarters.
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