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In depth review: Apple's iPhone 4S running iOS 5 - Page 2

post #41 of 61
10/19/11 at 11:52am
if any OEM is going to offer just one size for a smartphone, it has to be small. because that is optimal for portability and everyone can use it whatever their practical considerations about pockets and whatever else. this is what Apple has been doing.

but the Android OEM's usually offer a range of models with screen sizes from small to large. which enables them to also satisfy those who prefer and can readily use larger phones. best for browsing a lot obviously.

Apple certainly knows this. it offers more than one size for MacBooks and iMacs after all. so i do expect an iP5 that has a larger screen next year. along with the new A6 chip and 4G etc., since it can have a larger battery too. but the iP4S will stay in production as the smaller model.

big question is when. probably in the Spring if the A6 is ready, alongside the iPad 3 that will also need the A6 for a retina display. why not?

(btw, the iPod touch is now overdue for a major update too.)
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post #42 of 61
10/19/11 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

IN terms of important advantages of other systems that are changed in new model (page 1) you forget to mention the notifications system. This was a major complaint that was fixed in iOS 5.

Actually that section mentions "its modal notifications system" as being one of the top three things addressed in iOS 5.
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post #43 of 61
10/19/11 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I'd bet my house if the 4S was available with the current screen size as well as a 4" (almost) edge-to-edge version that the 4" version would sell better.

You are missing an accounting of some peripheral realities. First off, adding a 4" screen that goes "edge to edge" is easy to produce in Photoshop, but a little more difficult to engineer in the real world. Plus you have to develop the tools (or the skilled workforce) to produce such a device.

Then you have to consider how that feature will impact production. Will it be possible to find a reliable source of those screens? Will manufacturing issues derail production or hold back the volume of devices that can be produced, or change the speed at which production can be increased (if you've underestimated demand) or decreased (if you've overshot)? Or will you be stuck with nonstandard parts you can't sell (like HP)?

When you take your arm-chair punditry into the real world, you have to account for actual issues, which is why people doing the work at Apple make money while you earn nothing for contributing your uninformed opinions in comments on a review.

Sure, Apple may have attracted additional buyers with a bigger screen. But it also may not have attracted enough new buyers to make the change worth it, and may have actually alienated buyers who don't want a big screen. Those are variables you don't account for.

Does it make two iPhone 4S models, normal and bigger? That would result in doubling the inventory SKUs that Apple has to ship around and manage at every retail store and through every channel partner. Run out of big or end up with too many? Now you're losing money operationally on top of all the work you put into engineering a slightly bigger screen.

It would also tend to make production more expensive, forcing Apple to lose the profit margins that support the hiring of brilliant engineers and the production of world-class software. Sure, Android licensees crank out all manner of screen sizes, but a) they're not making much money, if any (Motorola LOST money last quarter) b) their software is problematic and poorly conceived (browse the web next to an iPhone and this gets pretty obvious quick; Android is not as optimized for any hardware, and hardware fragmentation only makes that problem increasingly difficult to solve c) these phones aren't even supported through their 2 year life span.

When you throw out remedies, filter them for reality to make sure what you are recommending is not worse than the status quo.
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post #44 of 61
10/19/11 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Alternatively, you can set Siri to activate when you raise the phone to your mouth, but that didn't seem to always work in testing...

It didn't work because that's not how it's supposed to work. It activates when you raise the phone to your HEAD like you are making a phone call. It uses the accelerometers and proximity sensors to detect that it has been placed against your head, not held in front of you face. Against the head is, by the way, the best position for the noise canceling to work.
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post #45 of 61
10/19/11 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

No thanks, I'll wait for iPhone 5

Same here.
Mac Pro 5,1: 12 x 2.93GHz / 64 GB / ATI 5870 / 1.5+2+2+2+3TB / ACD 30" + 20"
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Mac Pro 5,1: 12 x 2.93GHz / 64 GB / ATI 5870 / 1.5+2+2+2+3TB / ACD 30" + 20"
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post #46 of 61
10/19/11 at 12:40pm
Or go right to X like FCP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

6 is just a bad number, no good comes from it.

Apple should skip 6, and go to 7. That would really confuse people.
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post #47 of 61
10/19/11 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

This article only serves to confirm that I don't need a 4s. I will just keep the 4 until next release and I'll probably jail break my 3Gs for use when traveling abroad.

Siri seems like another hobby. Could be entertaining but I see it as no better than all the other voice recognition systems out there. I could not put up with all the mistakes. Too frustrating. If a desktop application was that flaky it would have the worst reputation ever. It would be like someone who was proficient in Photoshop having to use MS Paint. Not worth it for me.

I am loving siri so far. I am getting all of the to dos I usually forget en route. I find the accuracy is much higher than the voice commands on my android. And you can actually use punctuation in the dictation. It is a win for me.

But if you are currently on an iphone 4 I'd say wait longer. That is a lot of money to blow for nominal improvements over what you have.
jaded mac user
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jaded mac user
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post #48 of 61
10/19/11 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

It didn't work because that's not how it's supposed to work. It activates when you raise the phone to your HEAD like you are making a phone call. It uses the accelerometers and proximity sensors to detect that it has been placed against your head, not held in front of you face. Against the head is, by the way, the best position for the noise canceling to work.

So you're saying the phone doesn't respond when you raise it to your face, only when you raise it to your face? Thanks for that awesome bit of troubleshooting.

The problem is that it doesn't always work at all, not whether its raised "properly."
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post #49 of 61
10/19/11 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

So you're saying the phone doesn't respond when you raise it to your face, only when you raise it to your face? Thanks for that awesome bit of troubleshooting.

The problem is that it doesn't always work at all, not whether its raised "properly."

No. I said it works when you raise it to your head, like you are making a phone call (you know...next to your ear). The AI post says it is supposed to work when you raise it to your mouth. It's not the same.
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post #50 of 61
10/19/11 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

No. I said it works when you raise it to your head, like you are making a phone call (you know...next to your ear). The AI post says it is supposed to work when you raise it to your mouth. It's not the same.

How does the phone know that is your mouth and not your ear?

"Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple.." Lenovo X1 Carbon is out..bye bye MBAir

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"Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple.." Lenovo X1 Carbon is out..bye bye MBAir

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post #51 of 61
10/19/11 at 6:31pm
It knows because the proximity sensors are located next to the ear speaker. the microphone, on the other hand, is on the bottom. So the only way you could "fool" the proximity sensors with your mouth would be to hold the earpiece to your lips, but then you wouldn't be talking toward the microphone, and the noise canceling wouldn't work well because it's built to work best when the phone is held against your head. Nobody is going to try to talk into the earpiece.
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post #52 of 61
10/19/11 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

You are missing an accounting of some peripheral realities. First off, adding a 4" screen that goes "edge to edge" is easy to produce in Photoshop, but a little more difficult to engineer in the real world. Plus you have to develop the tools (or the skilled workforce) to produce such a device.

Then you have to consider how that feature will impact production. Will it be possible to find a reliable source of those screens? Will manufacturing issues derail production or hold back the volume of devices that can be produced, or change the speed at which production can be increased (if you've underestimated demand) or decreased (if you've overshot)? Or will you be stuck with nonstandard parts you can't sell (like HP)?

When you take your arm-chair punditry into the real world, you have to account for actual issues, which is why people doing the work at Apple make money while you earn nothing for contributing your uninformed opinions in comments on a review.

Sure, Apple may have attracted additional buyers with a bigger screen. But it also may not have attracted enough new buyers to make the change worth it, and may have actually alienated buyers who don't want a big screen. Those are variables you don't account for.

Does it make two iPhone 4S models, normal and bigger? That would result in doubling the inventory SKUs that Apple has to ship around and manage at every retail store and through every channel partner. Run out of big or end up with too many? Now you're losing money operationally on top of all the work you put into engineering a slightly bigger screen.

It would also tend to make production more expensive, forcing Apple to lose the profit margins that support the hiring of brilliant engineers and the production of world-class software. Sure, Android licensees crank out all manner of screen sizes, but a) they're not making much money, if any (Motorola LOST money last quarter) b) their software is problematic and poorly conceived (browse the web next to an iPhone and this gets pretty obvious quick; Android is not as optimized for any hardware, and hardware fragmentation only makes that problem increasingly difficult to solve c) these phones aren't even supported through their 2 year life span.

When you throw out remedies, filter them for reality to make sure what you are recommending is not worse than the status quo.

Everything you've mentioned is irrelevant.

The review states the fact that a majority of Android phones sold have crap small screens and uses this fact to make the failed logic jump that this means users don't want bigger screens in their phones. I called BS on this.

If the review stated that it didn't really matter what the hardware was in the 4S because people will buy it by the millions anyway, and by not raising the bar too high Apple will make billions more profit from its customers I wouldn't have said anything.
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post #53 of 61
10/19/11 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

I've got to say that I am really of two minds when it comes to screen size. When I'm holding the device, I'd like the screen to be a little larger...when I have it in my pocket, I want the device to be a little smaller

I think a lot of people would agree with you. The balance is in finding the right size.
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post #54 of 61
10/19/11 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

So according to Dilger logic the iPhone can't have a larger screen because Android sells a whole heap of BoGo pieces of shit?

I'd love to know since when BoGo pieces of shit have been the bar Apple should aim for.

I'd bet my house if the 4S was available with the current screen size as well as a 4" (almost) edge-to-edge version that the 4" version would sell better.

I for one like the information - it shows that the 'droid crowd talks about screen size like a magic bullet. It is clear here that most 'droid phones are the same or less in screen size as the iPhone. So the "advantage" in needing a larger screen is a figment of the 'droid population as many chose to get phones of lessor screens than the iPhone. When we hear of the massive over take of 'droid swamping the iPhone it is clear that most of this swarm of phones can not take advantage of the ice cream treat that Google has released. This is good data and puts it all in perspective - versus this oddly "all our 'droids" are the same in competition with the iPhone. It ain't so.
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post #55 of 61
10/19/11 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacKrazyinKC View Post

I for one like the information - it shows that the 'droid crowd talks about screen size like a magic bullet. It is clear here that most 'droid phones are the same or less in screen size as the iPhone. <==logic fail occured here==> So the "advantage" in needing a larger screen is a figment of the 'droid population as many chose to get phones of lessor screens than the iPhone.

I've highlighted above where you have made an incorrect assumption.

You can't make a call on what people want or is or isn't an "advantage" based on sales. Mac vs PC sales or Ferrari vs Toyota Corolla sales case in point.
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post #56 of 61
10/21/11 at 9:24pm
Okay back to my years with the Noid err I mean Droid. One word: CLUNKY! I have had every single sidekick from the black and white to the LX and finally switched to the G1 when it came out and then to the G2.

The G1 was a pretty nice phone for what it was. It had nice form factor, and a nice design for the slide out keyboard, the little part that stuck out on the bottom where the home keys were was kind of odd and the OS was only okay, but other than that it was pretty good. Then they came out with the G2(that took less than a year for them to discontinue) and the bigger screen. When you first see it, your reaction is "Yeah" then you hold it and it's terrible. It just does not fit right in the hand. Now this could have been just my G2, but i did not like it. It was like going back to the sidekicks again, which were great for their time, but are clunky by design.

The iPhone 4 design, feels so much nicer. It's smooth and feels right, I would be happy forever with the current screen if all the phones feel this good to hold. If they do go larger I will trust them to be able to keep the feel as good as it is.
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post #57 of 61
10/22/11 at 4:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Just curious, would you have bought if Apple just slapped the iPhone 5 name on this model?

What makes it so compelling to wait for a phone that nobody knows anything about? Do you know for sure what features it will have?

What are you using now?

You don't have to answer, just asking.

I dont feel comfortable buying a phone thats not 4G capable. I'm currently using an Evo and I enjoy the speed and large screen. Battery life is somewhat iffy but with a car charger it's almost a non-issue. I know many people say that 4G infrastructure isn't in place yet blah blah blah. I live in Lafayette, LA and I get a 4G signal throughout most of the city. If I have to swith to 3G when I go out of town I feel like a turtle. I'd be willing to say that I know for sure it will have 4G and a larger screen, at the very least. I had a 3GS that broke internally and I miss it, mostly because of the iTunes integration.
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post #58 of 61
10/26/11 at 3:31pm
There is no point of an iPhone with 4G. 4G signal is barely available across the globe.

I am very, very satisfied with the new 4S. Everything works instantly! Takes incredible photos, not so much videos. Image stabilization needs working on, I hope it's improvable...

Speaker is much louder and clearer. Vabriation hugely improved, very, very subtle and elegant. Doesn't make any noise anymore. Feelable in my front jeans pocket.

Obviously the screen could be (am/o)LED based... Though I'm staying with iOS. I can't use android. It's weak.

I'm not here to argue, I'm here to say that if you like high quality build device with a best user friendly interface :P go for the 4S. I mean it. Everything works instantly! It's like having SSD 500mb read/write speeds in your computer!
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post #59 of 61
10/26/11 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zYx View Post

There is no point of an iPhone with 4G.

Untrue. Well, now, maybe. But not next summer.

Quote:
4G signal is barely available across the globe.

In the places that it matters financially, however, it is. Available, that is.

Quote:
It's like having SSD 500mb read/write speeds in your computer!

That's something I'd like to know; what's the RW speed of the NAND chip in iDevices these days?

BECAUSE WE REALLY NEED A THUNDERBOLT INTERFACE.
Suddenly Newton
I actually use my phone. It's not some self-esteem crutch.
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Suddenly Newton
I actually use my phone. It's not some self-esteem crutch.
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post #60 of 61
10/27/11 at 4:52pm
Dan D There is a notion in your article that 4s is not much of an upgrade over iPhone4 ... and since iOS5 is also avail on older phones, 4s is not much added. This is somewhat like folks who bought iPad , then along comes iPad2 ... and you folks write same size screen, blah, blah blah.

But in reality the 4s and iPad2 are spectacular improvements in performance. Dual core vs single core CPU ... and you rarely mention the importance of the huge improvement of the GPU ... up to 7 times the performance. Then there is just a bare mention of the camera improvement. The new 8 meg camera has a much improved optics pkg... the software is awesome, and the picture quality rivals that of many higher end point and shoot. So much so that it is likely to have a major impact on people buying a point and shoot camera. Then, we have Siri ... not only a voice command scheme but a real assistance that does so much more. And there is so much more to come. The 4 doesn't even come close. Then the antenna improvements that iOS5 so nicely switches back and forth to optimize better signal quality. Almost nothing is mentioned about Bluetooth 4.0, the ultra low power wireless feature that will be amazing once there is more of the mating devices (which by the way are coming).
You don't even emphasize that 4s is a universal phone that can work on GSM and CDMA. Naturally the carriers will want to lock down their offerings for the world travelers, but that is a carrier issue, not the phone design issue.

I would recommend selling their 4 and upgrading to 4s and get on board with all the new and exciting features and performance improvements.

The fact that folks don't have to go out a buy new accessories, since all of the iphone 4 accessories fit the 4s perfectly.

Then there are those who comment they will wait for iPhone 5 and they don't even know what they are waiting for. So it goes.

I don't agree that staying with 4 is good enough since they got the upgrade iOS5. With the much better CPU and GPU in 4s you could make better recommendations.

Weak review. IMHO
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post #61 of 61
10/27/11 at 4:53pm
Dan D There is a notion in your article that 4s is not much of an upgrade over iPhone4 ... and since iOS5 is also avail on older phones, 4s is not much added. This is somewhat like folks who bought iPad , then along comes iPad2 ... and you folks write same size screen, blah, blah blah.

But in reality the 4s and iPad2 are spectacular improvements in performance. Dual core vs single core CPU ... and you rarely mention the importance of the huge improvement of the GPU ... up to 7 times the performance. Then there is just a bare mention of the camera improvement. The new 8 meg camera has a much improved optics pkg... the software is awesome, and the picture quality rivals that of many higher end point and shoot. So much so that it is likely to have a major impact on people buying a point and shoot camera. Then, we have Siri ... not only a voice command scheme but a real assistance that does so much more. And there is so much more to come. The 4 doesn't even come close. Then the antenna improvements that iOS5 so nicely switches back and forth to optimize better signal quality. Almost nothing is mentioned about Bluetooth 4.0, the ultra low power wireless feature that will be amazing once there is more of the mating devices (which by the way are coming).
You don't even emphasize that 4s is a universal phone that can work on GSM and CDMA. Naturally the carriers will want to lock down their offerings for the world travelers, but that is a carrier issue, not the phone design issue.

I would recommend selling their 4 and upgrading to 4s and get on board with all the new and exciting features and performance improvements.

The fact that folks don't have to go out a buy new accessories, since all of the iphone 4 accessories fit the 4s perfectly.

Then there are those who comment they will wait for iPhone 5 and they don't even know what they are waiting for. So it goes.

I don't agree that staying with 4 is good enough since they got the upgrade iOS5. With the much better CPU and GPU in 4s you are making good recommendations.

Weak review. IMHO
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