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Android, Windows Phone bosses downplay Apple's Siri threat

post #1 of 223
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Google Android boss Andy Rubin and Microsoft's Windows Phone head Andy Lees have both publicly criticized Apple's new Siri voice assistant and questioned its usefulness.

Apple announced Siri alongside the iPhone 4S, billing it as one of the most exciting features for the new handset. The Cupertino, Calif., company built the virtual personal assistant feature into its new phone after purchasing Siri for $200 million last year.

According to a recent report, the Siri team at Apple is one of the largest software teams at the company. Siri's unique personality and sense of humor has even inspired the creation of numerous websites and blogs detailing its creative responses.

Though initial reviewers have called Siri the "standout feature" of the iPhone 4S, Rubin and Lees don't appear to view it as much of a threat, based on comments they recently made at AllThingsD's AsiaD conference in Hong Kong.

Rubin, who currently serves as Google's senior vice president of mobile, said in an interview on Wednesday that he doesn't "believe that your phone should be an assistant.

Your phone is a tool for communicating. You shouldnt be communicating with the phone; you should be communicating with somebody on the other side of the phone, he added.

According to the executive, who is a former Apple employee, it still remains to be seen whether customers will take to talking to a phone and not another person. Well see how pervasive it gets, said Rubin. He did point out, however, that one of the co-founder of Android had worked on a cellphone speech company. Google itself has already built a measure of voice recognition functionality into Android, though the technology is not as advanced as Siri.

This isnt a new notion, he said. In projecting the future, I think Apple did a good job of figuring out when the technology was ready to be consumer-grade.



On Thursday, Microsoft's Lees said that he didn't think Siri was "super useful," as reported by Engadget. He also touted Windows Phone 7's own voice recognition implementation as harnessing "the full power of the internet, rather than a certain subset," because it uses Bing for its voice search feature.

It's unclear what exactly Lees meant by the comment, however, as Siri allows users to run searches on Google, Bing and Yahoo, in addition to providing access to a set of services, including Wolfram Alpha, Wikipedia and Yelp.

According to the report, Lees implied that Microsoft would avoid having its users speak commands to their phones in public.



While Apple's competitors may doubt Siri's usefulness, millions of customers have already voted with their wallets. During launch weekend, Apple sold a record 4 million iPhone 4S units. Company executives have said they are confident that the new device will set an all-time high for iPhone sales in the current quarter, which ends in December.
post #2 of 223
And in a few months they will bring their own Siri-like assistant. What a bunch of tools.

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post #3 of 223
Rubin doesn't sound like he's dissing it, just offering his opinion...he may be wrong, sure, but he isn't offensive or even dismissive.

Lees on the other hand?
post #4 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

And in a few months they will bring their own Siri-like assistant. What a bunch of tools.

They both already have Siri-like features...Siri is an advancement of that tech...likely Google will add open API's or something to allow for the inputting of calendar events etc, but I doubt it'd be as fun as Siri is. Maybe not even as natural.

something like "Mark event, Friday at 12pm, Lunch with Deborah."
post #5 of 223
I agree with most of it I suppose. Apple's purchase of Siri was a great decision. Especially the deep integration it has. I however would not use this in public, and would probably laugh / shake my head at anyone who does when I finally see it happen.

I would however use it to send a text to someone while driving.

A lot of these features have been available on Android for quite a while. As in, with a single button press, I can tell my phone to call anyone, to send a text message, or to start voice navigation.

Everything else that Siri has is usually just a glorified Google search.

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post #6 of 223
Quote:
Your phone is a tool for communicating. You shouldnt be communicating with the phone; you should be communicating with somebody on the other side of the phone, he added.

I'm sorry, but this is one of the stupidest statements I've ever read. That's quite some spin. Really? So these new fangled phones are only for calling people now? We 'communicate' with the phone every time we use it. If we can get a variety of tasks done faster by voice than by touch, that's not a good thing? I know he doesn't really believe in his comment and it's just PR, but thats what I can't stand. Google has always been big on voice. He's saying bullshit for the sake of saying bullshit, which makes it very difficult to respect anything else he has to say.
post #7 of 223
Quote:
Your phone is a tool for communicating. You shouldnt be communicating with the phone; you should be communicating with somebody on the other side of the phone, he added.

Yes, because we all use our smart phones exclusively for talking to people.

I would say I spend about 50% of my phone time using Safari, 30% playing games and using 3rd party apps, 10% writing e-mails, 5% consuming media (music, movies, podcasts) and the other 5% actually talking to people.

However I do agree that within a year, these same companies will unveil a beefed-up Siri clone that they'll claim is superior to Apple's Siri, however by then the novelty will have worn off and people really won't care.
post #8 of 223
These guys have to put down Apple's advances and play up their own. That's their job.

That being said, their criticisms are lame and sound so hollow. I actually use Siri on a daily basis for anything from commanding Music to dictating text messages and messages in Facebook. I use it for Googling whatever search I need also. Siri is bad ass. That's all I can say.

Every time I talk to Siri, I think of Jarvis in Iron Man. I can't help but think this where this is going. I hope I get to see and use something that advanced in my lifetime.
post #9 of 223
We heard the same threat from Motorola back in 2007 when the iPhone debuted. Siri is Steve's last "One more thing."

Microsoft and Dragon Speaking have been at it for almost 20 years, and Apple comes along and does it in 3. If the iOS is the future of computing, then Siri is HAL 2000 in reality.
post #10 of 223
SIRI is still very young and not fully fleshed out. It will become more significant with time. It's not a game changer yet, but it has the potential.
post #11 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoanderson View Post

Yes, because we all use our smart phones exclusively for talking to people.

I would say I spend about 50% of my phone time using Safari, 30% playing games and using 3rd party apps, 10% writing e-mails, 5% consuming media (music, movies, podcasts) and the other 5% actually talking to people.

However I do agree that within a year, these same companies will unveil a beefed-up Siri clone that they'll claim is superior to Apple's Siri, however by then the novelty will have worn off and people really won't care.

I think the novelty of Siri is already starting to wear off (which is WAY sooner than I expected). I myself was all over the blogs looking at Siri's responses to random questions. My friend I believe put it best, "It was the most entertaining 10 hours of my life. I'm wondering if I'll ever use it again though."
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post #12 of 223
PDA = Personal Digital Assistant
Smartphone = A device that is a PDA and Phone with many/most now having cameras and media players.

Keyword? Anyone? Oh Yes, ASSISTANT! lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Rubin, who currently serves as Google's senior vice president of mobile, said in an interview on Wednesday that he doesn't "believe that your phone should be an assistant.
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post #13 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Rubin, who currently serves as Google's senior vice president of mobile, said in an interview on Wednesday that he doesn't "believe that your phone should be an assistant.”

Then lets see how long before Android OS gives you an assistant. Oh wait... they already do, just not one as advanced as Siri.

Quote:
“Your phone is a tool for communicating. You shouldn’t be communicating with the phone; you should be communicating with somebody on the other side of the phone,” he added.

Most asinine statement of 2011.

"Siri, what do sour grapes taste like?"

"I don't know. You'll have to ask Andy Rubin about that."

And here are some 4 year old examples of people high up in the tech industry downplaying the significance of a new paradigm entering the market:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U (video, 2 minutes)

http://www.electronista.com/articles...iphone.in.2007 (Let's not forget their claims that virtual keyboards suck)
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post #14 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

And in a few months they will bring their own Siri-like assistant. What a bunch of tools.

Andy and Andy don't have a clue. We all know Apple is slowly migrating IOS to the Desktop.

Imagine your Imac or Laptop with Siri Integration. Imagine Apple TV with Siri or more likely the often rumored 46 inch plus Apple flatscreen.

I can see it now a voice controlled entertainment center. Any one for:

- "record Toy Story"
- "set up recording for.....?
- "call Mom," via your TV

Apple didn't pay $200 million to embed Siri on a smart phone.

I certainly wouldn't and can think of a number of ways to use Siri. Siri and the Iphone is only the beginning.
post #15 of 223
The intelligence of a mouse trying to understand the universe. Microsoft and Google are the mouse and Apple is the universe. I see SIRI as the future. Apple always looks to the future. Apple always works to innovate. Apple's 80 billion dollars proves it. Google and Microsoft can say all they want. That 80 billion dollars says enough. I predict SIRI will open doors for allot of people beyond the iPhone 4S in the future.
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post #16 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by santoanderson View Post

... However by then the novelty will have worn off and people really won't care.

qft
post #17 of 223
So the next thing they'll be telling us is that we should all go back to basic phone because THAT is all we need. Siri is outstanding for a first release. Honestly, it makes texting and email so cool. And I'm just starting to learn what it can do.
post #18 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I'm sorry, but this is one of the stupidest statements I've ever read. That's quite some spin. Really? So these new fangled phones are only for calling people now? We 'communicate' with the phone every time we use it. If we can get a variety of tasks done faster by voice than by touch, that's not a good thing? I know he doesn't really believe in his comment and it's just PR, but thats what I can't stand. Google has always been big on voice. He's saying bullshit for the sake of saying bullshit, which makes it very difficult to respect anything else he has to say.


I agree. These two companies are at odds. Why not commend Apple for the sake of be innovative. Why be negative. If these companies complemented each other there would not be such stupid statements like the one he made about communicating with your phone. I for one like the option to talk to my device. I get lonely.
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post #19 of 223
Ahh I think the statement made in this post by Google is so stupid. I have to make another post. It is a novelty. My God man. Thats like calling the iPhone a flash in the pan. A novelty. I can see people utilizing the iPhone 4s siri in ways that will dramatically enhance their life. I just wish I could afford one right now. I have the iPhone 4 and want this spectacular device to enhance my life. I am womanless and would love to have her (SIRI) in my life. I see the iPhone 5 dramatically utilizing SIRI in a more advanced way. Maybe we can see it on the iPad 3. But statements like Googles and Microsoft makes me see a arrogant person who thinks poorly of Apple just because he can. That makes me not like Google and I already dislike Microsoft greatly. Screw them and their self righteous attitude.
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post #20 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landcruiser View Post

So the next thing they'll be telling us is that we should all go back to basic phone because THAT is all we need. Siri is outstanding for a first release. Honestly, it makes texting and email so cool. And I'm just starting to learn what it can do.

I found myself setting up standard calendar events, and time/date and location reminders with it where I typically wouldn't have bothered to take the time. It even noted when there was an overlapping event. After using it for a day i found going back to my iPhone 4 to be difficult. I kept trying to get my iPhone 4 to access Siri. It's rough to have great technology taken away from you.
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post #21 of 223
Lay off Windows and Android bosses, people! In case you've forgotten, Apple is no stranger to such tactics. Remember when Steve Jobs said that 7-inch tablet makers should ship their tablets with a nail file? How about when he he went on AllThingsD and trashed Adobe and Flash?

It's how the game is played. Executives are supposed to talk up their product and their strategy. They're supposed to poke holes in competitor's products/strategies. As far as I'm concerned, Andy Rubin did his job as the Android boss. Whether he's right or not is irrelevant. It's his job to to say good things about his company's products and show how they're better than competitors' products.
post #22 of 223
Can't blame them really. Their companies are not innovative nor visionary. Several months from now they're going to start their photocopy machines anyway.
Just like how they dissed the iPad and ate their own words months later.
post #23 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

Lay off Windows and Android bosses, people! In case you've forgotten, Apple is no stranger to such tactics. Remember when Steve Jobs said that 7-inch tablet makers should ship their tablets with a nail file? How about when he he went on AllThingsD and trashed Adobe and Flash?

It's how the game is played. Executives are supposed to talk up their product and their strategy. They're supposed to poke holes in competitor's products/strategies. As far as I'm concerned, Andy Rubin did his job as the Android boss. Whether he's right or not is irrelevant. It's his job to to say good things about his company's products and show how they're better than competitors' products.

1) Apple still hasn't shipped Adobe Flash on iOS, Adobe has repeatedly struggled to get Flash to work on a handful of mobile devices, and Adobe is now focusing heavily on the core web code that made mobile Safari such a great browser on a mobile device.

2) When Apple releases a 7" iPad with the same version of iOS designed for the 10" iPad then you'll have a soapbox on which to stand.
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post #24 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by fila97 View Post

Can't blame them really. Their companies are not innovative nor visionary.

Says the guy defending the company that stole its new notification system.
post #25 of 223
Siri is cool, no doubt about it. It's flash, whizz-bang glory. $200M well spent. It's definitely selling iPhones to people who like shiny things.

The problem with Siri in its current state is really quite obvious. It's just not good enough. It's a version of the uncanny valley -- unless you can make something 99.9% reliable it's a frustrating experience. There's a reason we aren't speaking our posts to AppleInsider -- we are typing it. And make no mistake, Dragon Naturally Speaking is a far more advanced speech-to-text technology than what's in Siri (it does, of course, lack the "AI").

There's a novelty factor here that is selling phones. Will it be something everyone can't live without a year from now? Not a chance. For the vast majority of people anyway.

The most useful features of it (dictating texts, etc) have been standard features in most smartphones for a while. The other parts of it are pure showmanship. Apple put a ton of effort into things like the little jokes it has because they know it'll give them publicity. They knew it'd drive sales. It's the superficial sugarcoating on the phone to give it something stronger to differentiate from the prior iPhone 4 (which is why it's artificially limited from running on anything other than the 4S).

Many of you think the world of it right now, but once the novelty wears off (and make no mistake, it will), you'll probably want to forget about all of this hype you bought into. It's just not good enough -- it's not consistent enough, it's not reliable enough. Even if it fails 1 out of 10 times to correctly do what I ask of it, that's too much for me and most people.

I'm not going to bother googling it, but there's tons of UX research into this. "Good enough", when it comes to predictability interfaces, is 99.9% accuracy. In my experience with Siri thus far, it's nowhere near that.

It's the same reason I don't dictate my posts here.
post #26 of 223
I think Apple scored big with Siri. It's a natural way to interact with the device. If someone wants to take a powernap, they don't have to fiddle with the controls on the phone. Instead, they can just say, "Wake me up in a half-hour."

Also, Siri is more than just voice interaction. Google's version of voice interaction is probably better than Voice Control. But there's a big difference between that and Siri. Voice control recognizes a specific set of commands. In order to give a voice command, you have to give the phone a specific set of instruction. Siri is so much more than that. It understands words spoken in context. For example, you can ask Siri, "Do I need my jacket today?" Siri will understand that you're trying to ask for the weather.
post #27 of 223
Anyone know how to get Siri working again on the phones older than a week? I'm mad Apple janked it from the AppStore and then made it broken. And what happened to the cool support for OpenTable???
post #28 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

I think Apple scored big with Siri. It's a natural way to interact with the device. If someone wants to take a powernap, they don't have to fiddle with the controls on the phone. Instead, they can just say, "Wake me up in a half-hour."

Also, Siri is more than just voice interaction. Google's version of voice interaction is probably better than Voice Control. But there's a big difference between that and Siri. Voice control recognizes a specific set of commands. In order to give a voice command, you have to give the phone a specific set of instruction. Siri is so much more than that. It understands words spoken in context. For example, you can ask Siri, "Do I need my jacket today?" Siri will understand that you're trying to ask for the weather.

It's funny that I keep hearing the "do I need my jacket today" example.

Try asking Siri "Text my wife I love her". Awkward moments will ensue.

Siri isn't nearly as intelligent as many of you think it is. It's certainly very well trained, if you follow the rails. Hey, try asking it "Do I need my jacket today?". I heard that works great.

The only difference between Google's voice commands/voice control and Siri is the attempted AI, which was actually from an old DARPA project that had its funding cut because it wasn't close to being good enough for military use. And I say attempted. How the AI is implemented is just a much more complex version of voice commands. It does speech to text then tries to use a bunch of predefined rules to break down the sentence and associate it with pre-existing commands, weighting each outcome with a probability. The problem is this does require training. Lots of it. Which is why the Siri team is supposedly so large.

But the other implication of this is simple: Siri will only be able to do what it was programmed to do. This is why Siri is pretty much braindead in Canada and Europe. It's only been trained extensively for the US.

On Android you can already say "Text Joe, I am going to be late. Sorry bud. Send." and it'll send. With Siri, you can now say "Hello Siri. How are you? Please text Joe that I will be late. Sorry bud."

Yeah, it's cool in demos and when you get your shiny new toy. But what's the longevity on that? Unless you like the sound of your own voice, you're going to learn to optimize Siri to do what you want quickly. And do you know what that will sound like?

"Text Joe, I am going to be late. Sorry bud. Send."
post #29 of 223
Quite often one will find Siri is more valuable than wasting time talking to people who have nothing valuable to say, and that includes ourselves.
post #30 of 223
Here we go again. Apple LEADS the pack and everyone else FOLLOWS with pointless comments. Steve would be proud.
post #31 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoleman1 View Post

Here we go again. Apple LEADS the pack and everyone else FOLLOWS with pointless comments. Steve would be proud.


Apple bought Siri. Siri was a spinoff of a government research project. Apple pulled Siri from the iOS store and aborted the almost-released Android version of it.

Let's not be victims of hyperbole. Apple bought a company with a product they knew would market very well, they killed it for other platforms, and they convinced everyone it was an "iPhone 4S feature" rather than just another app. Which is what it was for two years, and none of you apparently knew about.
post #32 of 223
I heard that the SIRI company that Apple bought has valuable patents. Supposedly a lot of fundamental AI research going back decades ended up in SIRI.

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post #33 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

I agree with most of it I suppose. Apple's purchase of Siri was a great decision. Especially the deep integration it has. I however would not use this in public, and would probably laugh / shake my head at anyone who does when I finally see it happen.

I would however use it to send a text to someone while driving.

A lot of these features have been available on Android for quite a while. As in, with a single button press, I can tell my phone to call anyone, to send a text message, or to start voice navigation.

Everything else that Siri has is usually just a glorified Google search.

What I like about google voice is that I speak three languages, two of them with heavy accents (well three actually - Australian is my mother language) but google voice / translate recognises them all. It took a bit of training to get it on all three but now it is used to my accent.

What it doesn't do is pick up commands in natural conversation. It picks up the words for search or a text message but does not pick up the command from them. That is a great bit of AI in Siri. Although I dont really have much use for it as I do not feel the need to use natural conversation to command a phone, but you have to admit it is something nice to play with for a while. Also interesting to see where it will be in 5 years from now.

There is a rumour that google voice will come to google TV this year. Amybe Siri will do the same.
post #34 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Most asinine statement of 2011.
"Siri, what do sour grapes taste like?"

"I don't know. You'll have to ask Andy Rubin about that."

I wish that could be added as an actual response...
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post #35 of 223
This is what happens when you change the game. And Rubin and Lees know it, otherwise they wouldn't be coming out against it.

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post #36 of 223
I feel really sorry for these guys, especially at something like AsiaD.

They get up on stage and try to show the unique experiences they are trying to create but at the end of the day it doesn't matter what they have or what they do because the bounds of the conversation are always set to whatever Apple's latest thing is.

The Asus interview was actually worse than these two. Jonney Shih was demoing their new Transformer (and was obviously very excited about it ) and the looks Mossberg was giving him were not far shy of contempt.

How would you feel trying to show your product to this guy?
post #37 of 223
The company that brought us Clippy dares to criticise Siri?
post #38 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

…the Siri team at Apple is one of the largest software teams at the company.

Unlike some other acquisitions, Apple has integrated the Siri software team into its own structure. This implies that Apple sees great potential and will put a lot of resources into advancing Siri development.

Don't forget, Scott Forestall has a background and strong interest in artificial intelligence.

I see Siri as another auditory interface and an extension of accessibility for a lot of people.

Most people are not geeks. To have a tool that can handle an initial ambiguity and move in the direction of preciseness (querying back to the user) should be a boon. I would think that the Siri team will be working hard at evaluating various feedbacks to extend and improve the tool.

Although Siri now requires full time internet access to servers to function, I am hopeful that techniques will be worked out to alleviate that problem so that Siri can be useful on an iPad and even OS X.

The current voice recognition available in OS X is old, limited, and incapable of handling accents and speech defects. I know because I can't use it at all.

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post #39 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

The company that bought us Clippy dares to criticise Siri?

There is an interesting point I hadn't thought of until your post. Clippit/Clippy had a visual character, Hal 9000 had a giant red eye as its visual counterpart, and many other AI in sci-fi have had at least a semblance of human visual characteristics, but Siri has nothing but a microphone symbol. This strikes me as unusual for SW being marketed as AI and a personal assistance. It certainly has personality but I'd think that it would be natural to want to add a visage to make it feel more human like.
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post #40 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

Apple bought Siri.

Google bought Android. And had a sneak peek of the iPhone pre-release.
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