Steve Jobs told biographer he 'cracked' the secret to a simple HDTV - Page 3

It's worth noting that an Apple TV has been rumoured for release in late 2011 or early 2012. The biography was initially going to be release in early 2012 and Jobs health may have prevented it from being announced in Q3.

Well, no. Apple authorizes all sorts of products designed to work with the ipod in its "Made for iPod" program. Same deal would apply here, except it would be called something like "Made for AppleTV".


Well, no again. Program content synopses, schedule listings and reviews are content anyone can buy. TiVo does this, packages it in their own interface, and sells it to subscribers. Some others, like Zap2It, AOL, and Yahoo!TV, do this as well but make their revenue in ads. The cable companies only control that interface if you let them.


A very important but underrated reason why Apple will NOT make the whole TV. Just about anything else Apple makes at this point, a buyer can carry out of the store. Let Sears or Best Buy deal with the space needed to display TVs and then the hassle of their subsequent delivery. Yuck.

Some times I get the feeling that people don't understand how large Apple is or the scope they have.

30 thousand employees. Stores in multiple countries.

1000s of Engineers

LCD panels...Apple knows about LCD panels as they buy just about more than any other single company.

When you look at the constituent elements needed for a Display Apple's has everything but the panel plant.

Not really. Everyone and their brother chided Apple for not including an FM tuner on the iPod (and I would assume iPhone) because you just had to listen to radio. Now, there is things like TuneIn Radio bypassing that spectrum.

I doubt Apple is going to go backwards and include a tuner in such an television. Already, many broadcasters are offering their wares on the Internet. Why wouldn't Apple tap into that?

Because something would be left out? Something big and popular? Like the Beatles were from iTunes?

"Made for iPod" means that there is a periphery for a whole widget called an iPod. That is waaay different than letting another company make the tv (widget) and apple just does the software (periphery). As for floor space for the tv's, Apple could have floor models and an off site warehouse for stock. Buy your tv and it gets delivered (maybe even set up) by a "media genius.". I doubt anybody is looking forward to lugging a 50" tv home in a sedan and it's not like the tv will cost a couple hundred bucks.

Yep!!

Yep. This is happening people, accept it!

As I read your post and think about it, that does sound rather intriguing... and attractive.

To be honest, giving spoken commands to my mobile iDevice doesn't intrigue me nearly as much as being able to command my TV without searching for the remote and then having to turn on the light to see which buttons I'm pushing.

I have an old version of Tivo on my DirecTV (so much better than what DirecTV offers in a DVR that I refuse their upgrade offers). I can imagine Siri married to a Tivo-like (season passes, searches by title, star, keyword, etc.), iOS based guide. I'm sitting here rubbing my credit card... having impure thoughts.

Hopefully this rumor has some basis or the concept gains momentum and turns into a product that many of us could justify buying.

This is the reason I became a member here and stopped being (just) a lurker. You folks say things that make me think... and it's nice to be able to respond.

I could definitely see an improved Apple TV, but think Apple would have to do something REALLY different to compete against Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, etc. if anyone could pull this off it's Apple...

No, but you would update it as often as you did your old desktop.

Many years ago I was talking to a TV salesman who knew little about computers. It was back in the days of expensive plasma TVs and desktop computers. He was lamenting that people would spend $3000 every couple of years to replace their computer, but would balk at doing the same thing with their TV.

Maybe Apple will finally usher in that era.

But the real answer is that you'll take the old TV and put it in the kid's playroom, older OS and all, just like you do now with your old TV sets.

And what would this have to do with an Apple television?

The HDTV industry is currently in a mode where they are tossing everything up on the wall and trying to see what sticks.

I "got" that 120Hz made pictures more fluid ...but couldn't see the point of 240hz and beyond
I "got" that local dimming was the "in" thing even though my eyes couldn't see a big diff.
I "got" that Avatar was great in 3D but I wasn't about to pay extra for goggles at home.

The reason why people aren't upgrading their sets is because there haven't been any major updates to technology other than larger panels. We've been sold on hz and widgets and 3D but that's just not getting consumers to scrap older tech that still works.

New ideas are needed IMO.

Nope.


Apple would lose 1 billion or more in the first quarter alone after an HDTV launch. It's idiotic.

Especially one you can talk to. Although how it would hear you over a full volume Lady Gaga I'm not too sure about.

Or the quote was taken out of context and what he was talking about was basically the same Apple TV plug in box we have now. or perhaps a software they were going to consider licensing to Samsung etc, but not actually make a full tv.

Well, would they actually improve the performance of the HDTV substantially every 3 years like those computers? I don't think that's sustainable, even with the most brilliant of engineers. Some of the best sets from 3-4 years ago are still chart toppers today.

Making people buy a whole new HDTV just because the internals no longer support software updates, like old iphone models, that I can't get behind.

I guess you could say the buzz out there has been about Apple working on a HDTV.

Sonos CEO says this of Apple's potential entry.


Interview with Sonos CEO John McFarlane

McFarlane says



Especially if iTunes starts pushing this HD+ format

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...e_service.html

I agree with Tallest, sorry, Ireland.

There will be an external box that replaces your cable box, or accepts input from it. It will have SIRI and wll be the third iteration of the AppleTV. It will not have permanent DVR storage, but will have enough temporary storage for a few days's worth of programming. It will also have on-demand capability that is far more advanced than the current Apple TV.

http://allthingsd.com/20100601/d8-vi...tv-is-a-hobby/

The simplest user interface you can imagine? That would be just one action, selecting the show you want to watch and it automatically starts playing. And since the TV is out of reach, pointing with your hand would be the most natural thing.

So I can imagine just sitting back on the couch and pointing at the screen, and it has a webcam that can read my arm movements, like MS is doing with games. I can't imagine much simpler than that, but Steve probably did!

And? I'm assuming Apple will have solidified many agreements with the content providers.

But there is no way in hell Apple will be in the IDTV business.

It has everything to do with an Apple branded HDTV.... Big picture man. The race to dominate the living room...



New ideas are very much needed. But IMO, home theater entertainment has is an over-saturated market.

I agree with you, they are throwing all kinds of crap at the wall to see what sticks (3D, YouTube/Netflix integration, Facebook integration, etc.). One of the reasons for this is that there is nothing new with televisions. Like I said in a previous post, televisions are nothing more than a stupid device whose soul purpose is to display a picture. At the end of the day, there is nothing more than that.

My two biggest problems with Apple entering this market is that one; it is a mature, saturated marketplace that does not offer the growth potential like other up and coming markets (i.e., the smart phone market pre-iPhone) and two its not a market were people will upgrade frequently. How often does one buy a new TV? Every 5-7 years? It definitely longer than the PC refresh rate.

The race to win the living has always been about content not LCD panels...

Considering the X360 isn't a TV and hooks up to a TV, I still fail to see why the X360 would be relevant to Apple releasing an HDTV. IF Apple were to release a TV, which I still doubt, i would think you could still hook an X360 and most other things up to it as well. I can't see people buying any TV unless it allowed most, if not all, of the devices they already have attached to their current TV to be attached as well. I don't think most people would be willing to toss their older TV attachments away just to have an Apple or any other company's TV.

Its relevant because it is another interface for the TV that won't change with Apple's potential offering. In fact, devices like the XBOX and PS3 would actually dilute the Apple experience... And that is the point of this discussion. If Apple can't control everything aspect of a device (both UI and hardware) there offering simply can't compete.

Nobody should care about the box itself only the content displayed on it (interface, shows, movies, games, etc.) . Your HDTV is like your computer monitor attached to your Mac Mini... A necessary accessory. But that is it.

Why would anyone want an integrated AppleTV with an HDTV is beyond me. Do you really think Apple will support an integrated AppleTV accessory for the life of the TV?

IMO, the cable companies, television studios, and movie studios have no use for Apple. There is no reason why they would threaten their monopolies in dealing with Apple.

The video linked previously sums it up.. The cable companies business model has to change. Once it does, then Apple could introduced some really awesome technology on the scene, but not until the cable companies change....

...

If you think Apple's will release a set top box with Siri I can't help you.

I also don't agree that Siri would work on the Apple TV. You can't fight the audio stream.

Huh, this seems to be a four way war now.

Apple will release an HDTV.
Apple will release an HDTV with Siri.
Apple will release a new Apple TV.
Apple will release a new Apple TV with Siri.

I'm in the third camp. Where are you?

Actually, I'll just do a poll in the Future Hardware forum.

Except that content is King- of which Apple doesn't have and Hollywood will never give.
Therefore half- baked at best.
And still no 7.1 audio 1080P etc etc

Also Amazon seems closer to this already with their cloud Kindle Fire model.

You can't possibly know what Hollywood will and won't give Apple.

The lack of 1080p now doesn't set that in stone for all eternity.

Would you go backward from a 720P to 480? Thunderbolt to FIREWIRE.?
1080P is the industry HD benchmark except at Apple.

Based on history Hollywood has already given Amazon Hulu and Netflix more. This is why you cannot buy 1080P at iTunes. Hollywood wants to control content and will NOT let Apple take control.

Apple isn't Hulu. Apple isn't Amazon. Apple isn't Netflix.


Too late.

Everybody and their brother chided Apple for not including an FM tuner on the iPod? Really? Then why did the iPod quickly become #1 - and stay there for a long time? In reality, it was a small number of people who think they're smarter than Apple who were complaining about lack of a tuner.

Besides, the two situations are different. Even by the time the iPod came out, there were a lot of portable players that didn't have radios. Sony had a walkman that played CDs and no radio. The radio is not essential to what the device was made to do - play mp3 tunes downloaded from your computer.

For a TV, the picture (ahem) is different. It's hard to imagine what good a TV would be if it didn't play TV shows off the air or off cable. If you simply want to play stuff that you have on iTunes, you don't need a TV - you simply need a monitor hooked up to your computer. How well have monitors sold compared to TVs? Not very well.


I agree. And all of that is compounded by the fact that 3D, at least, is a significant backward step for many people. Not only do you need goggles (which is inconvenient and clumsy), but a significant percentage of people can't see 3D on the TV - and may even get headaches from trying.


I'm not sold on the idea of an Apple HDTV. I'm starting to see that it's not entirely out of the question, although I think they could get there just as easily by selling and licensing a card to TV manufacturers. But that aside, I'm curious how the heck you managed to come up with that figure. Let's see your detailed P&L projections and the marketing research to support them.

Or are you just playing 'analyst' and pulling numbers out of your rear?


That would be awesome.
How about: "What baseball games are playing tonight?" or "What sitcoms are playing?"

However, I could see a couple of problems:

1. Microphone sensitivity and noise reduction would be an issue. You're telling it what to do from across the room - possibly while the TV is already playing.
2. How do they filter out fake signals? For example, you're watching "How I Met Your Mother" and Robin says "let's watch 'Friends'". There has to be a way to filter that out.
3. With a remote, only one person can control it at a time. I could picture that voice activation could turn into a shouting match.

I suppose it might be possible to deal with #1 and #2 by programming it to automatically ignore any sound coming through the system, but it still sounds like quite a challenging technological problem.

Ballparking based on adding up all the factors inherent in creating something like this. You have to guess for R&D and some of it, but it's fairly close.

And I don't mean negative 1 billion revenue, I mean 1 billion LESS revenue than they were expecting otherwise, but even that's sounding WAY too optimistic.

I agree it's too late for apple to get the vast trove of Hollywood content necessary to launch a film streaming service now that SJ is gone. He couldn't even get it even when he was around- not that he didn't try.
Content is King.

No, too late for Apple to not take control of the industry.

I'm not so sure about that. If it's a television, then you control the input so you can play your xbox, finish and change the input like any other TV except maybe you do it with Siri-like voice commands instead of a remote. Also, there is a possibility for picture-in-picture. If you're playing your console and stuck in a game, pause it, call up siri for another, smaller screen and get a walkthru from youtube or vimeo then resume game.

If there's ever any revolutionary innovation in TV, it will be a fundamental change in the business modelprobably in the TV network/movie studio business model. The hardware and software will be incidental.

That's absurd.

So if Apple released an HDTV, they're going to sell $1 B less iPads, iPods, iPhones, and Macs? Ridiculous.

Or maybe you mean that they'll sell $1 B less HDTVs than they think they will sell. That's equally ridiculous. You're going to estimate the same $1 B deficiency whether they project $20 in sales or $20 trillion? Wouldn't it require you to know their estimate before you could guess how much they'd miss by?

Finally, of course, is the issue of who knows more about their markets. If Apple WERE to decide to release an Apple HDTV, it would be on the basis of their belief that they could make it work. Who do you think has been more successful at judging the markets over the past 15 years - you or Apple?

To add to the bolded point, Apple tends to shoot for a certain percentage of an established market to measure success. For example, Steve Jobs said he would be ecstatic if Apple captured 1% of the cell phone market. If Apple decided to release an HDTV, I'm pretty sure its executives have determined not only cost and price point but also how much minimum share it needs to survive (even at "hobby" status).

Uh no


Uh, NO.

I mean to say that the first quarter after the release of an HDTV, Apple would take in at least $1 billion less in revenue than projected prior to the release of said HDTV.

For example, Apple expects 35 billion in revenue this quarter, without an HDTV. If they were to release an HDTV this quarter, I figure they'd wind up with at MOST 34 billion.


Me, given that I'm judging the market as one that has always had razor-thin margins and where a TV $2,000 more than its counterparts at the same size won't sell, regardless of how good it is.