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Samsung Galaxy Nexus screen held back by subpar subpixels

post #1 of 195
Thread Starter 
Though the new Samsung Galaxy Nexus sports a 720p HD display, its 4.65-inch screen is said to be held back by cheaper technology that gives it a lower pixel density and poorer color accuracy than Apple's Retina Display found on the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4.

The Galaxy Nexus features a display branded "Super AMOLED" by Samsung, which is less than the "Super AMOLED Plus" screen featured on the already-available Galaxy S II smartphone. The removal of "Plus" from the name references that the screen uses a cheaper PenTile OLED, despite the fact that it has more pixels per inch, according to FlatPanelsHD.

The less expensive panel on the Galaxy Nexus means that individual pixels must share subpixels on the screen, which undercuts the 315 pixel-per-inch density of the Galaxy Nexus display.

"A PenTile OLED panel was recently introduced with the Samsung Galaxy Note, and we were not impressed," the site said. "In real world PenTile means loss of details and sharpness, as well as a bluish/greenish tint around letters (depending on the background color)."

By calculating the "real" pixel density of the display with the PenTile subpixel sharing, the Galaxy Nexus is said to have a pixel-per-inch number of about 200, which is just slightly higher than the Super AMOLED Plus screen on the Galaxy S II.

"So, the HD Super AMOLED display in the new Galaxy Nexus is not as awesome as it sounds -- unfortunately," author Rasmus Larsen wrote. "And the reason that people do not call it a Retina display should seem much more obvious to you now that you know the underlying technical architecture."

The pixel density numbers of the Galaxy Nexus are also affected by the fact that the new flagship Android device has a large 4.65-inch screen to fill. For comparison, the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 feature a display more than an inch smaller diagonally, at 3.5 inches.



Apple made the term "Retina Display" part of its marketing with the launch of the iPhone 4 in 2010. The name was chosen because Apple says the individual pixels are so small and densely packed that they cannot be seen by the human eye. The iPhone 4 and its follow-up, the newly released iPhone 4S, feature a pixel-per-inch density of 326.

There were rumors that Apple's latest iPhone would sport a slightly larger screen, running edge-to-edge on a device with about the same size as the iPhone 4. But those rumors proved to be false, as the iPhone 4S sports the same form factor and same display as the iPhone 4.

Rumors have suggested that Apple will bring its branded Retina Display to the iPad with its third-generation model starting in 2012. One report claimed the new high-resolution displays are 2,047 by 1,536 pixels packed into the same 9.7-inch screen size as previous iPad models.

Rather than embrace AMOLED screens like many Android device makers, including Samsung and its new Galaxy Nexus, Apple has instead chosen to stick with LCD screens for its Retina Displays. Those LCD screens feature in-plane switching (IPS), which allow for picture and color accuracy at extreme viewing angles.
post #2 of 195
Quote:
which allow for picture and color accuracy at extreme viewing angles.

...but relatively poor black-levels.
post #3 of 195
I new the minute I saw that headline that this was written by DED.

Oh wait, never mind. Apparently the problems with Android are not just the conspiracy cocktails of one person, but fetid, gravid and endemic.
post #4 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

...but relatively poor black-levels.

There are always tradeoffs and compromises with such young technology.

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post #5 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

There are always tradeoffs and compromises with such young technology.

"I want it all, I want it all, I want it all....."

Quoting people that have used the device...

"The panel looks downright gorgeous, with unbeatable viewing angles, remarkably crisp text and graphics and a beautiful feel as one swipes across it"

Find a single bad first impression of the screen. Tip: You can't. It's still super amoled. Even when compared side by side with any iphone 4.

Pentile Matrix has better outdoor performance, white performance, and better battery life. At that PPI, you would have to put it under a microscope to see subpixels.

Not sure why this article is trying to imply that the iphone4's screen is any better.... I sure hope everyone has compared things like black performance between an iphone's LCD display and any amoled display

It's fun to watch you guys dig to the bottom of the barrel to try and find something wrong with it.

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post #6 of 195
But wait for "Super AMOLED qHD 3D PLUS F.ART" it will be the next big thing!
Seriously, can we already drop these stupid "new" screen names. It's getting ridiculous.
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post #7 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Quoting people that have used the device...

"The panel looks downright gorgeous, with unbeatable viewing angles, remarkably crisp text and graphics and a beautiful feel as one swipes across it"

Find a single bad first impression of the screen. Tip: You can't. It's still super amoled. Even when compared side by side with any iphone 4.

Pentile Matrix has better outdoor performance, white performance, and better battery life. At that PPI, you would have to put it under a microscope to see subpixels.

Not sure why this article is trying to imply that the iphone4's screen is any better.... I sure hope everyone has compared things like black performance between an iphone's LCD display and any amoled display
post #8 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

I new the minute I saw that headline that this was written by DED.

Oh wait, never mind. Apparently the problems with Android are not just the conspiracy cocktails of one person, but fetid, gravid and endemic.

The problem with the Nexus display is not technically a "problem with Android." This time.

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post #9 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

I new the minute I saw that headline that this was written by DED.

Non sequitur. Stick to the topic.
post #10 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Quoting people that have used the device...

"The panel looks downright gorgeous, with unbeatable viewing angles, remarkably crisp text and graphics and a beautiful feel as one swipes across it"

Find a single bad first impression of the screen. Tip: You can't. It's still super amoled. Even when compared side by side with any iphone 4.

Pentile Matrix has better outdoor performance, white performance, and better battery life. At that PPI, you would have to put it under a microscope to see subpixels.

Not sure why this article is trying to imply that the iphone4's screen is any better.... I sure hope everyone has compared things like black performance between an iphone's LCD display and any amoled display

It's fun to watch you guys dig to the bottom of the barrel to try and find something wrong with it.

Less pixels per inch.
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post #11 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

...but relatively poor black-levels.

Actually not.

The contrast levels on IPS screens are absolutely amazing and better than any other screen by a country mile with the one exception of AMOLED. To characterise the excellent although admittedly "second best" contrast of Apple's screens as "poor" is extremely misleading at best.
post #12 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Actually not.

The contrast levels on IPS screens are absolutely amazing and better than any other screen by a country mile with the one exception of AMOLED. To characterise the excellent although admittedly "second best" contrast of Apple's screens as "poor" is extremely misleading at best.

Using that same logic, to label the pixel density or color accuracy as worst is "extremely misleading at best" as well.

What that site doesnt know is OLED's inherent nature of color reproduction produces in excess of NTSC's standard broadcast levels.

Most LCD's only product at max around 82% of the color gamut of a NTSC color gamut.

AMOLED's produce 100% of the NTSC color gamut.

That site has absolutely NO credibility nor does it have any documented scientific evidence to suggest otherwise.

The picture in the comparison is that of the OLD Pentile display and not the NEW Pentile display.

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post #13 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Less pixels per inch.

Galaxy Nexus is at 315
Iphone is at 326

\ huge difference.

amoled will outperform the LCD any day

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post #14 of 195
Typo:

" One report claimed the new high-resolution displays are 2,047 by 1,536 pixels packed into the same 9.7-inch screen size as previous iPad models."

2048x1536 would be double the current iPad resolution.

MM>Yes 326 vs 315 are both over the magic 300 mark, but the shared sub pixels makes for a less accurate picture. I'll reserve judgment till I can actually see the 2 in person side by side, but PenTile = bad
post #15 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Galaxy Nexus is at 315
Iphone is at 326

\ huge difference.

amoled will outperform the LCD any day

Not in precise colour reproduction it won't, especially pentile.
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post #16 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

I new the minute I saw that headline that this was written by DED.
.

Who or what is DED?
post #17 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Less pixels per inch.

315~ compared to what? 326? anything over 300 is invisible to the naked eye...according to some people. I don't know for fact.
post #18 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


I'll reserve judgment till I can actually see the 2 in person side by side, but PenTile = bad

This anyone can agree with.

I read that the trade off was because they hadn't yet perfected an RGB version of that HD screen that wasn't also a complete battery drain.
post #19 of 195
I just don't understand the level of hypocrisy around here. The iPhone does very well from a user experience perspective in spite of the fact that its specs are generally (though not always) inferior to high end Android phones. Whenever specs (processor speed, camera MP, screen size, NFC, etc.) are brought up to imply that the iPhone is behind the curve, the ensuing ruckus could wake the dead. Clearly you all agree that lower specs don't necessarily diminish the quality of a well-designed product. With that in mind, why pan this display, which none of you have seen, when by all accounts it will lead to a wonderful user experience?
post #20 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Galaxy Nexus is at 315
Iphone is at 326

\ huge difference.

amoled will outperform the LCD any day

Here is an analysis of subpixel density by Anandtech. The Nexus has about 2/3ds subpixel density of the iphone. Granted, the screen is about 60% bigger. So it is a trade off depending on what you like and what you see with your eyes. Personally, I want a 4" screen on any high end phone. iphone is too small for my taste and Android is too big. Maybe the iPhone 5 next summer. Good thing I have an iPad to curb my gadget lust.
post #21 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Not in precise colour reproduction it won't, especially pentile.

Super AMOLED doesn't produce natural colors, but neither does iPhone's IPS display.

Undersaturated != Natural.

http://www.displaymate.com/iPhone_4_ShootOut.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I read that the trade off was because they hadn't yet perfected an RGB version of that HD screen that wasn't also a complete battery drain.

They also have to save something for SGSIII.
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post #22 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

...but relatively poor black-levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Actually not.

The contrast levels on IPS screens are absolutely amazing and better than any other screen by a country mile with the one exception of AMOLED. To characterise the excellent although admittedly "second best" contrast of Apple's screens as "poor" is extremely misleading at best.

Actually, he didn't characterize it as "poor". He characterized it as "relatively poor". As in, "in relation to" a Super AMOLED. I would certainly classify a contrast ratio of 800:1 as "relatively poor" in comparison to 100,000:1, wouldn't you?
post #23 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I just don't understand the level of hypocrisy around here. The iPhone does very well from a user experience perspective in spite of the fact that its specs are generally (though not always) inferior to high end Android phones. Whenever specs (processor speed, camera MP, screen size, NFC, etc.) are brought up to imply that the iPhone is behind the curve, the ensuing ruckus could wake the dead. Clearly you all agree that lower specs don't necessarily diminish the quality of a well-designed product. With that in mind, why pan this display, which none of you have seen, when by all accounts it will lead to a wonderful user experience?

"Specs" refer to features or numbers that are represented on a spec sheet, but really only tell part of the story as far as real world performance is concerned. Ghz, RAM, MPs are perfect examples of "specs". So is as-of-yet impractical features such as NFC. Humans tend to gravitate to specs, as they allow us to quantify which is "best" and fall back on heuristic crutch arguments, like "8MPs is better than 5"... which could be correct, but doesn't necessarily correlate specifically with the number of MPs. But it looks good on paper, and makes our decisions "easier".

Arguing about the quality of the display does not fit the "specs" argument, unless you start splitting hairs about the number of PPI (326 vs 315). It's perfectly fair to analyze the quality, color accuracy, etc. It's important to note, however, that, much like screen size, much is subjective to the person, and there is not exactly one right or wrong answer.

Not having uses a SUPER AMOLED+ (seriously?) screen, I can't form a subjective decision. All I know is that, to me, the 4S's display is absolutely perfect, and I don't really see how you could improve upon it. If Samsung's display really is "better" is likely a marginal difference at best.
post #24 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by XideXL View Post

Actually, he didn't characterize it as "poor". He characterized it as "relatively poor". As in, "in relation to" a Super AMOLED. I would certainly classify a contrast ratio of 800:1 as "relatively poor" in comparison to 100,000:1, wouldn't you?

Is that contrast ratio use the same calculation as Plasma TVs? I know my Samsung plasma has a "2,000,000:1" contrast ratio... But it's not really any noticeably different than a Samsung LCD with a much "lower" contrast ratio; I had read its not a universal calculation.

Or perhaps it's that 800:1 is so good, that "1,000,000:1" isn't as noticeably better than you'd think. Can you really detect that blacks are 1,250x more black?
post #25 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I just don't understand the level of hypocrisy around here. The iPhone does very well from a user experience perspective in spite of the fact that its specs are generally (though not always) inferior to high end Android phones. Whenever specs (processor speed, camera MP, screen size, NFC, etc.) are brought up to imply that the iPhone is behind the curve, the ensuing ruckus could wake the dead. Clearly you all agree that lower specs don't necessarily diminish the quality of a well-designed product. With that in mind, why pan this display, which none of you have seen, when by all accounts it will lead to a wonderful user experience?

Look at everyone's impression of the device. Every single person that has had hands on time with this device say it's absolutely gorgeous and incredibly responsive.

That's all we have to go off right now since nobody on this board has actually touched or seen this in person. Just saying... The people that CAN judge it have said nothing but good things about it.

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post #26 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

Is that contrast ratio use the same calculation as Plasma TVs? I know my Samsung plasma has a "2,000,000:1" contrast ratio... But it's not really any noticeably different than a Samsung LCD with a much "lower" contrast ratio; I had read its not a universal calculation.

Or perhaps it's that 800:1 is so good, that "1,000,000:1" isn't as noticeably better than you'd think. Can you really detect that blacks are 1,250x more black?

Easily. Show a completely black image on your iphone, and compare it to a completely black image on any amoled android.

The difference is huge.

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post #27 of 195
Should have added the word 'Superior' to the first sentence.

"... gives it a lower pixel density and poorer color accuracy than Apple's Superior Retina Display


without that, it just sounds boring.
post #28 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

"Specs" refer to features or numbers that are represented on a spec sheet, but really only tell part of the story as far as real world performance is concerned. Ghz, RAM, MPs are perfect examples of "specs". So is as-of-yet impractical features such as NFC. Humans tend to gravitate to specs, as they allow us to quantify which is "best" and fall back on heuristic crutch arguments, like "8MPs is better than 5"... which could be correct, but doesn't necessarily correlate specifically with the number of MPs. But it looks good on paper, and makes our decisions "easier".

Arguing about the quality of the display does not fit the "specs" argument, unless you start splitting hairs about the number of PPI (326 vs 315). It's perfectly fair to analyze the quality, color accuracy, etc. It's important to note, however, that, much like screen size, much is subjective to the person, and there is not exactly one right or wrong answer.

Not having uses a SUPER AMOLED+ (seriously?) screen, I can't form a subjective decision. All I know is that, to me, the 4S's display is absolutely perfect, and I don't really see how you could improve upon it. If Samsung's display really is "better" is likely a marginal difference at best.

To me it sounds like we agree totally. The article was talking about the PPI and the subpixel count, both of which are numbers describing and object (the very definition of a specification). Just in case we aren't in agreement, my point was that the lower PPI that the article and some of the readers were trashing probably will not actually lead to an inferior user experience. My other point is that too many readers and authors on this site are blind to their hypocrisy. We agree, don't we?
post #29 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstring View Post

Should have added the word 'Superior' to the first sentence.

"... gives it a lower pixel density and poorer color accuracy than Apple's Superior Retina Display


without that, it just sounds boring.

Inferior works too. It's LCD...

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post #30 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

Is that contrast ratio use the same calculation as Plasma TVs? I know my Samsung plasma has a "2,000,000:1" contrast ratio... But it's not really any noticeably different than a Samsung LCD with a much "lower" contrast ratio; I had read its not a universal calculation.

Or perhaps it's that 800:1 is so good, that "1,000,000:1" isn't as noticeably better than you'd think. Can you really detect that blacks are 1,250x more black?

That 2,000,000 : 1 on your TV is dynamic contrast ratio, which is a completely useless spec. TV manufacturers use it to fool customers.

However, iPhone's 800:1 and Super AMOLED's 100,000:1 are both values for static contrast ratios. And the difference is clearly visible.
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post #31 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post

That 2,000,000 : 1 on your TV is dynamic contrast ratio, which is a completely useless spec. TV manufacturers use it to fool customers.

However, iPhone's 800:1 and Super AMOLED's 100,000:1 are both values for static contrast ratios. And the difference is clearly visible.

Agreed.

Still, the easiest way to show this is putting a full black image on your devices when you compare them.

Difference is night and day

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post #32 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Quoting people that have used the device...

"The panel looks downright gorgeous, with unbeatable viewing angles, remarkably crisp text and graphics and a beautiful feel as one swipes across it"

Don't tell me, that was said by someone in cheerleader mode, just like Andy Rubin, who said about Siri:

"I dont believe that your phone should be an assistant. Your phone is a tool for communicating. You shouldnt be communicating with the phone; you should be communicating with somebody on the other side of the phone."

Here's an observation:
****
Gsheep can delude themselves just as much as iSheep.
***
***
Here's another perspective on Pentile displays: http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/20/the...8TechCrunch%29
post #33 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Galaxy Nexus is at 315
Iphone is at 326

\ huge difference.

amoled will outperform the LCD any day

It has a "real" ppi of 200... Thats the whole freaking point of the article.
post #34 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Agreed.

Still, the easiest way to show this is putting a full black image on your devices when you compare them.

Difference is night and day

About the ONLY time the blacker blacks are useful is watching movies. Otherwise its absolutely worthless.

And even then, on a screen so small, it barely makes any difference.
post #35 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I just don't understand the level of hypocrisy around here. The iPhone does very well from a user experience perspective in spite of the fact that its specs are generally (though not always) inferior to high end Android phones. Whenever specs (processor speed, camera MP, screen size, NFC, etc.) are brought up to imply that the iPhone is behind the curve, the ensuing ruckus could wake the dead. Clearly you all agree that lower specs don't necessarily diminish the quality of a well-designed product. With that in mind, why pan this display, which none of you have seen, when by all accounts it will lead to a wonderful user experience?

What is funny to watch is the response when iPhone hardware is shown to be superior to Android phones where the ASSUMPTION is always made that Android hardware HAS to be superior.

Why is that, is it because the OS is so shit?
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post #36 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Who or what is DED?

Daniel Eran Dilger, also known for roughlydrafted.com
post #37 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Easily. Show a completely black image on your iphone, and compare it to a completely black image on any amoled android.

The difference is huge.

Easily, show black text on a white background on an Amoled pentile display and compare it to the IPS LCD retina display of an iPhone.

The difference is huge!

Now the question is, do I spend more time looking at completely black images or looking at screens of text?
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post #38 of 195
post #39 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Daniel Eran Dilger, also known for roughlydrafted.com

Just to add context, Slash is one of his known aliases. Though even if it was unknown, DED's Title choices and wording style is fairly easy to spot.

That being said, there is a HUGE difference between LCD Pentile (or rather, what you see on the atrix, bionic, etc) and what you'll see on a AMOLED screen.

I have an AMOLED Incredible (the same basic screen as the Nexus 1). I don't notice the banding effect unless I put it side by side my old droid (which is LCD), but even then I have to look for it. Compare that to the Bionic, where the banding is a lot easier to spot.

And none of those screens are superAMOLED. Does it have as many sub pixels per inch as the iphone4? No. Does it matter? No. Every hands on (there are no real reviews yet) says that the screen looks amazing. I know that this is hard for some people to accept, but it is possible to have an amazing product without being the "first" in increasingly nonsensical areas.
post #40 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

I new the minute I saw that headline that this was written by DED.

Oh wait, never mind. Apparently the problems with Android are not just the conspiracy cocktails of one person, but fetid, gravid and endemic.

Slash Lane is DED to me.
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