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Samsung Galaxy Nexus screen held back by subpar subpixels - Page 4

post #121 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

For every iPhone sold it is one smartphone not sold by an android manufacturer, ie. Samsung.

You mistake the smartphone market with a zero-sum game. But it is not. Instead, it is a growing market.

Different dynamics apply.
post #122 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mock Turtleneck View Post

Thanks SamsungInsider! A++ article as usual! /s

But seriously, PhoneArena just published a detailed comparison of different screens so why not have a look yourselves?

Here's a zoomed in image depicting the "sharpness" capability of various screens:



Using the OP's logic, the Galaxy Note (which uses the same AMOLED HD display) should have a "real" ppi of 190, instead of 285 due to its PenTile display . If the Galaxy S2 has an actual ppi of 217 which is slightly denser than that of the Note, then why do the letters in the latter device appear to be much sharper?

Despite its extremely high contrast ratio and ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS color display, AMOLED is still not perfect as it suffers from blue degradation over time and cases of burn-ins. But publishing misleading articles like this is just low.


I'm no expert in what to look for in magnified screens, but it looks to me like the "Galaxy Note" is the best, with the iPhone coming in second.

Which technology is in the upper left-hand corner? It looks better than both the Galaxy S2 and the iPhone. Which phone is the Galaxy Note?
post #123 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's not hard to understand. It's just that I'm smart enough to realize that your use of "Everyone" is incorrect. See, for example:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/21/t...us-not-a-plus/

But you're using a biased site that increasingly bashes anything not Apple. What does that prove? Honestly, if Apple did the same thing then they'd ignore it. Happens all the time.
post #124 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

By "stepping up their game" do you mean "blatant copying?!?

Of course you won't read anything like that on AI or DF. Those sites only publish the TRUTH. All other web sites are LIARS!

Google is EVIL!

Adobe is LAZY!

Samsung are THIEVES!

HTC are RAPISTS!

Nokia EATS KITTENS!

You are a LIAR!

Oh, and a PAID TROLL!


(Just trying to get into the mood of acceptable posting practices here - did I forget any of the standard requirements?)

Microsoft is ...
post #125 of 195
To me, the screens are kind of even. I, for one, prefer better color saturation. I prefer to best of both worlds, but that's not reality. Using my 4S, the screen is MUCH too small for me and would make the sacrifice of pixel density for a bigger screen with more saturation.

However, going from my 4S back to my Galaxy S (Vibrant), my eyes hurt. I can litterly see the pixes on my Galaxy.
post #126 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

that is probably also the reason why Retina is nowhere to be found on the specs sheets of neither Galaxy Note nor Galaxy Nexus."

Isn't "Retina Display" a trademarked marketing term invented by Apple?

Maybe that is why they don't use it - it is Apple's property?
post #127 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

But wait for "Super AMOLED qHD 3D PLUS F.ART" it will be the next big thing!
Seriously, can we already drop these stupid "new" screen names. It's getting ridiculous.

TOO FUNNY
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post #128 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

But you're using a biased site that increasingly bashes anything not Apple. What does that prove? Honestly, if Apple did the same thing then they'd ignore it. Happens all the time.

What it proves is that your claim that EVERYONE thinks the Nexus has the best screen is false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Ask anyone who has switched from a 3.5" screen to something larger. People love it.

There is no down side to having a larger phone unless you're wearing your sister's jeans.

As always, you are making blanket statements that just aren't true. First, there IS a downside. It's larger, doesn't fit as well in your pocket, and is harder to operate one-handed.

As for "people love it", that's undoubtedly true for SOME people. Others can't stand it because of the size. We'll know whether more people prefer a 4.5" screen or a 3.5" screen after the sales figures are out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

There are several videos and articles by Tech sites demonstrating that sunlight legibility of the newer Samsung AMOLED screens is on par with that on the iP4.

This video demonstrates that at about the 5 minute mark near the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziMl6zrv0RI

Please don't confuse the phandroids with facts. Their heads will explode and then someone will have to clean up the mess.
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post #129 of 195
Is it true that Apple's A5 chipset and their "Retina" displays were made and are manufactured by Samsung and LG ?
Two of the best features of my iPhone 4S are made by Samsung, LG? OMG....!!

"Apple relies on Samsung for chips despite patent wars" : UK Times
http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/23308...-iphone-4s.htm

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-n...e-A5-processor

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/07...by-lg-samsung/
post #130 of 195
@jragosta

Um, I'm so confused right now. When did I say EVERYONE thinks the Nexus S screen is the best screen?
post #131 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Non sequitur. Stick to the topic.

It's not a non sequitur.

DED is ruining AI.

Also in those pics the iPhone 4 zoom level is much smaller than the Android screens! Fail.
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post #132 of 195
Who the hell is DED?
post #133 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

Who the hell is DED?

daniel eran dilger aka DED, AKA Slash Lane, and a host of other names he uses.

Basically take the worst type of comment troll and give him a press badge.
post #134 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

What it proves is that your claim that EVERYONE thinks the Nexus has the best screen is false.

Since you apparently can't click a link. Engadget LOVED the screen. They're quoting a site that hasn't used the nexus. And he said that everyone LOVED the screen, not that they said it was the best.

Quote:
As always, you are making blanket statements that just aren't true. First, there IS a downside. It's larger, doesn't fit as well in your pocket, and is harder to operate one-handed.

You're making statements that just arn't true. an iphone (or ipod touch) isn't "snug" in my pockets, nor is my 3.7 inch droid incredible, or the 4.3 inch Thunderbolt. This device (as constant hands on have verified) feels a lot smaller than it really is because it's thin and they made the bezel smaller and removed physical buttons. You know.. Kinda like how all those pictures made their way around earlier this year showing how you could fit a 4" screen in an existing IP4 sized form factor?

Quote:
As for "people love it", that's undoubtedly true for SOME people. Others can't stand it because of the size. We'll know whether more people prefer a 4.5" screen or a 3.5" screen after the sales figures are out.

And this argument is pointless because the same can be said about smaller screens, except it can't because if someone wants iOS they MUST choose that form factor, which skews the numbers.

Quote:
Please don't confuse the phandroids with facts. Their heads will explode and then someone will have to clean up the mess.

As opposed to you, who simply pretends they don't exist.
post #135 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and you completely missed my argument. My argument was that it will be a fail because it's the best that Samsung can do and I believe it won't be enough in the end game to help Samsung to compete effectively with Apple... even though you believe that Samsung is only trying to compete with other Android phone manufacturers. For every iPhone sold it is one smartphone not sold by an android manufacturer, ie. Samsung. The business models of the two companies may be different but the end result is the same... making money. How can it not matter to either company if the other company is taking sales from them... no matter which OS is in the phone. [eventually the smartphone market will be saturated just as wireless in the US is today... how do you pull customers away from the competition... reputation, service, marketing, features. It sounds as if you are trying to say that because Apple and Samsung have different business models they don't want each others customers... what?!]

Just to let you know... Solipsism is right. Thread after thread is filled with Android fans saying exactly what he is trying to relay to you. Hell, I tried to say it to you and you started some crap about subsets etc.

... but you must be right because you said so.

Oh, and by the way... the very first comment in this thread was an attack on the iPhone 4S black levels. C'mon... does that sound like an Apple fan defending the iPhone 4S... give me a break.


1) The Nexus isn't the best Samsung can do. It's very comparable to the (existing) Gs2 phones, and there's already other devices in the pipeline. To samsung, the best they can do are phones they put touchwiz on, EG the Galaxy S2, the S3 when they announce it, or the upcoming Note.

2) I didn't say samsung was only competing with Android phones. I said that there wouldn't be a single android phone to beat the iphone because if someone wants iOS, they get an iphone. If someone wants android they MIGHT get a samsung, or an HTC, or an LG, or a Motorola, or a (insert the dozens of other manufacturers there) If you can't see the difference, I don't know what else to tell you. Samsung and Apple are going after the SAME people, Google isn't. And even samsung is taking a different approach, one that IS making them record breaking profits. Again, if you can't see the fact that samsung approaches phone releases differently, I'd invite you to open your eyes. This isn't rocket science, but it's a common fallacy that people on this site just don't seem to get. They fall into the trap of believing that the ONLY way for a company to succeed is if they do everything like Apple, and that no other business plans are feasible. The financial results of HTC and Samsung beg to differ.

3) Solipsism isn't right, not this time. He's right about a lot of things, but he has this problem where he instantly assumes that every person who prefers something other than iOS is secretly the same person and they secretly hold the same view. This is called Stereotyping. You apparently have it to. I don't confuse him with Hill60, even though they both love apple. He shouldn't do the same to me, and neither should you. You made a generalization about all android fans, one that a lot of the most vocal on this forum don't even qualify for.

Side Note: The reason there are so many "android fans" here is because of DED and his intentionally gutter-born articles. The headlines are great for SEO, I'll give him that, but because they're so great with SEO, they draw a lot of attention. The quality of his "journalism" and his unveiled opinions are usually reserved for the forums of some corner of the internet without a decent moderator. AI gives him top billing. You reap what you sow.

4) That wasn't an attack. That was someone pointing out there were tradeoffs (believe it or not, that IS a tradeoff of LCD) They didn't say the screen sucked, or attack apple for it. You're reading into it. This "argument" started with Mr. Angry posting his usual, poorly and selectively researched trash and publishing it under one of his well known pseudonames
post #136 of 195
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post #137 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Side Note: The reason there are so many "android fans" here is because of DED and his intentionally gutter-born articles. The headlines are great for SEO, I'll give him that, but because they're so great with SEO, they draw a lot of attention. The quality of his "journalism" and his unveiled opinions are usually reserved for the forums of some corner of the internet without a decent moderator. AI gives him top billing. You reap what you sow.



Good points.
post #138 of 195




Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I'm no expert in what to look for in magnified screens, but it looks to me like the "Galaxy Note" is the best, with the iPhone coming in second.

Which technology is in the upper left-hand corner? It looks better than both the Galaxy S2 and the iPhone. Which phone is the Galaxy Note?

The Galaxy Note ( which you state is the best) is the one using the newer Pentile display technology of which this entire article was based on.

NOW, do you see the ridiculousness of this??

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post #139 of 195
On another note, I want the Galaxy Note. Gonna love that Super AMOLED PLUS/HD display. Good size too.

Also, are there no smileys in iOS texting?
post #140 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


The Galaxy Note ( which you state is the best) is the one using the newer Pentile display technology of which this entire article was based on.

NOW, do you see the ridiculousness of this??

Actually, ff they wanted a real comparison they should have spent the time to set up the camera to minimize moire (which is very bad on the iPhone screenshot) and really should have increased the letter size on the iPhone to match the others since the comparison is essentially useless otherwise. (Unless the goal was to see what the letter looks like at the same pixel size, which negates the density advantage, particularly with a bad picture.)

NOW do you see the ridiculousness of this??
post #141 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

On another note, I want the Galaxy Note. Gonna love that Super AMOLED PLUS/HD display. Good size too.

:sigh: The Galaxy Note does not have a Super AMOLED+ display.
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post #142 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

:sigh: The Galaxy Note does not have a Super AMOLED+ display.

THOSE DANG DIRTY APES.

I'mma slit my wrists now.
post #143 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post







The Galaxy Note ( which you state is the best) is the one using the newer Pentile display technology of which this entire article was based on.

NOW, do you see the ridiculousness of this??

Yes. The new high rez pentile display seems to be nothing short of excellent.

But what accounts for the green hue? None of the others have it.
post #144 of 195
It looks like the first display to finally be close to the iPhone 4/4S will actually surpass it with a "real" count of 495ppi, not a "false" count of sub-pixel trickery.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5002/t...n-of-2560x1600 As Kristian Vättö mentions, what's the point of a 6.1" display? It's too large for a smartphone and too small for a tablet. It might just be a concept that gets the densest pixels in the largest possible display or it might be for some other use, like a car's console display where such 6.1" might be ideal. Either way, I'm glad Apple is doing to the display industry what it did to the smartphone market. Perhaps next year Android-based devices will catch up to Apple's iPhone 4 introduced 1.5 years ago.
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post #145 of 195
Arguing over which screen is better, the iPhone or the Nexus, is like arguing over which car performs better, a Fiat 500 or a Smart. They are both so tiny it hardly matters. If we were comparing tablet screens or notebook screens it might make sense, but on a phone, I'm sure they are both good enough.

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post #146 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Naw. The proof is in the pudding.

All 3 current high-end display technologies have advantages and disadvantages.

Pentile has its disadvantages. But there is no denying that (according to the people who have, like, actually seen one) the Nexus has a screen which looks GREAT.

Apple's screen tech is good for many reasons.

Super AMOLED Plus is also a good technology, and has many advantages.


Is it even possible that anybody, anywhere, besides Apple, has technology which is Good? Is it possible that technology that Apple did not choose could also be a good choice?

I don't know why you ask that last question, because it has nothing to do with Apple choosing it or not. I don't like it when companies use technical shortcuts to perpetuate marketing bullshit, period. Let me give you an example where Apple was accused of doing the same.

A few years ago, Apple was sued for using 6-bit color channels in their LCD displays, but advertising "millions of colors" which is technically only true when using 8-bit color channels. Other companies where doing this too, so it was a common lie. What they were doing was subpixel dithering to trick the eye into seeing "more" colors. Most people didn't know or care unless they were graphics artists (but then professional graphics artists use expensive wide-gamut calibrated displays from NEC or something like that). However, I took issue with Apple marketing what was technically a lie. At the pixel (a single RGB display unit) level, 6-bit LCDs could not really display millions of colors.

PenTile is no different. It's subpixel sharing between "pixels" (a term I put in loose quotes because they are no longer made from fully independent RGB subpixels). I'm not talking about the "Super PLUS" version, I'm talking about the non-PLUS variation referenced in the AI article. My distaste is for companies using subpixel tricks like these and then claiming inflated numbers (in the case of Apple, more colors, and in the case of Samsung, more pixels).

I am not saying that everyone will find PenTile ugly, nor did everyone object to the 6-bit color displays. Yes, there are visual artifacts associated with both tricks, but not everyone will care. But that's not the issue. The issue is that companies are inflating their color and pixel counts. And that's a con job.

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post #147 of 195
@Suddenly Newton.

Funny how we weren't called Apple fanboys when we didn't agree with the "millions of colours" advertising.
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post #148 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

@Suddenly Newton.

Funny how we weren't called Apple fanboys when we didn't agree with the "millions of colours" advertising.

The millions of what? Wacha talkin' 'bout?
post #149 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It looks like the first display to finally be close to the iPhone 4/4S will actually surpass it with a "real" count of 495ppi, not a "false" count of sub-pixel trickery.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5002/t...n-of-2560x1600 As Kristian Vättö mentions, what's the point of a 6.1" display? It's too large for a smartphone and too small for a tablet. It might just be a concept that gets the densest pixels in the largest possible display or it might be for some other use, like a car's console display where such 6.1" might be ideal. Either way, I'm glad Apple is doing to the display industry what it did to the smartphone market. Perhaps next year Android-based devices will catch up to Apple's iPhone 4 introduced 1.5 years ago.

500 ppi is borderline pointless (no pun intended). Apple set the mark right regarding pixel density.
post #150 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Arguing over which screen is better, the iPhone or the Nexus, is like arguing over which car performs better, a Fiat 500 or a Smart. They are both so tiny it hardly matters. If we were comparing tablet screens or notebook screens it might make sense, but on a phone, I'm sure they are both good enough.

It's like guys arguing over being 1'' vs 1.1''.....nevermind......

I'm jumping between my Vibrant and 4S and realized how both are too small to really enjoy a whole lot. Especially considering my rather large fingers take up half the screen in any case...
post #151 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm glad Apple is doing to the display industry what it did to the smartphone market. Perhaps next year Android-based devices will catch up to Apple's iPhone 4 introduced 1.5 years ago.

It's actually an LG display.

Anyway, LG already has a 4.5" smartphone with a 720p (326ppi) AH-IPS display.
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post #152 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post

It's actually an LG display.

Anyway, LG already has a 4.5" smartphone with a 720p (326ppi) AH-IPS display.

Don't tell me you've forgotten the investment Apple made to LG or overlooked the fact only Apple is using the 326ppi IPS panel. Apple investments are clearly paving he way for consumer innovation that was have happened much more slowly without them.
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post #153 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

[...] Apple has instead chosen to stick with LCD screens for its Retina Displays. Those LCD screens feature in-plane switching (IPS), which allow for picture and color accuracy at extreme viewing angles.

Apple was just granted a patent on their technique of bonding the IPS LCD screen to the touchscreen element above it. This technique allows for lower production cost. Maybe that's why the Samsungs of the world are so keen on trying to develop OLED screens. To avoid yet another patent smack down.

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post #154 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Apple was just granted a patent on their technique of bonding the IPS LCD screen to the touchscreen element above it.

That's exactly how Super AMOLED works.
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post #155 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

@Suddenly Newton.

Funny how we weren't called Apple fanboys when we didn't agree with the "millions of colours" advertising.

Or sheep.

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post #156 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Quoting people that have used the device...

"The panel looks downright gorgeous, with unbeatable viewing angles, remarkably crisp text and graphics and a beautiful feel as one swipes across it"

Find a single bad first impression of the screen. Tip: You can't. It's still super amoled. Even when compared side by side with any iphone 4.

Pentile Matrix has better outdoor performance, white performance, and better battery life. At that PPI, you would have to put it under a microscope to see subpixels.

Not sure why this article is trying to imply that the iphone4's screen is any better.... I sure hope everyone has compared things like black performance between an iphone's LCD display and any amoled display

It's fun to watch you guys dig to the bottom of the barrel to try and find something wrong with it.


samsung won't sell 4 million of these in the first 3 days....
post #157 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I'm no expert in what to look for in magnified screens, but it looks to me like the "Galaxy Note" is the best, with the iPhone coming in second.

Which technology is in the upper left-hand corner? It looks better than both the Galaxy S2 and the iPhone. Which phone is the Galaxy Note?

Indeed, except if it was the same picture used in the comparison why is it all green instead of white for the Galaxy Note?

Also, it's not really green, unless there's some ultra-high-res texture it's trying to display from the original image... you can see a kind of "crochet" patterning to the "green".

Don't get me wrong, I like the bigger (Super, Duper, Whatever) AMOLED screens for sheer impact from what little I've played around with it. But in the long run and for value of the device, I'll stick to iPhone for now. How good or bad the AMOLED is in the long run, I may never know.
post #158 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by apacheman View Post

Is it true that Apple's A5 chipset and their "Retina" displays were made and are manufactured by Samsung and LG ?
Two of the best features of my iPhone 4S are made by Samsung, LG? OMG....!!

"Apple relies on Samsung for chips despite patent wars" : UK Times
http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/23308...-iphone-4s.htm

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-n...e-A5-processor

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/07...by-lg-samsung/

Yea, Samsung is behind of at least 25% of iPhone parts. Samsung may also manufacture an unknown share of other 50% of iPhone parts which probably include processor and some LCDs and touchscreens and the bigger share of LCD shipments apparently come from LG.

So while iPhone software comes from Apple, the electronics are largely Korean.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/08/sam...phone-4-parts/

At some point Apple will have to follow the trend (latest Super AMOLED Samsung, Moto, Nokia phones) and move to AMOLED display technology. The Galaxy S3 expected to use Super AMOLED+ HD displays.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/10/d...z-dual-core-c/
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_iii-4238.php

LCD is running out of steam and soon it will be old tech.

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post #159 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

500 ppi is borderline pointless (no pun intended). Apple set the mark right regarding pixel density.

No way. Did you see the photos in the article comparing the screens?

High density can be used for many, many applications. If Apple had tech as good at this, my guess is that lots of folks would be crowing about it.

Instead, the response is "Apple's low-tech screen is 'Good Enough'". Twas ever thus.
post #160 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

Yea, Samsung is behind of at least 25% of iPhone parts. Samsung may also manufacture an unknown share of other 50% of iPhone parts which probably include processor and some LCDs and touchscreens and the bigger share of LCD shipments apparently come from LG.

So while iPhone software comes from Apple, the electronics are largely Korean.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/08/sam...phone-4-parts/

So? Who cares?

Samsung can not simply stop shipping to Apple. Even if their contract allows it (which isn't likely), their shareholders would revolt and file a class action suit against the management.

Furthermore, how do you know that Apple doesn't have a backup plan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

At some point Apple will have to follow the trend (latest Super AMOLED Samsung, Moto, Nokia phones) and move to AMOLED display technology. The Galaxy S3 expected to use Super AMOLED+ HD displays.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/10/d...z-dual-core-c/
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_iii-4238.php

LCD is running out of steam and soon it will be old tech.

Whether that's true or not, it's meaningless. Apple doesn't have to use LCD. They don't have to use AMOLED. They can use whatever they want. At any given stage of development, Apple chooses the components that best fit their needs and which offer the best balance of performance and cost. If that balance switches from LCD to AMOLED, then nothing at all stops Apple from making the switch.

Of course, the fact that Apple can shell out a few billion dollars for advance purchases and preferred availability might make that very uncomfortable for other phone manufacturers if it happens.
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