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Apple quietly updates MacBook Pro lineup with faster CPUs, graphics - Page 2

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

Great, no way to hold back Lion and all it's OD bugginess now, I predict 3 people will want a new laptop by noon tomorrow. Sometimes working in IT sucks.

I am not sure what you are referring to here (OD bugginess ). I know I for one, would appreciate an explanation.

Not really sure I grok your post at all dude. \

jOhn
post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

That's a nice graphics upgrade. The 6770M will be able to play the latest games (Deus Ex, Rage) at very respectable settings. I know because I have an older iMac with slightly worse graphics and it plays them just fine.

Apple's pages show a weird graphics performance DECREASE:
(old on top)
http://imgur.com/lAvek

The Fine Print seems to offer the same Test scenario for Half Life E2, so why has it dropped form X3 to X2 performance? Will there be better battery life? (reviews showing 2.5 hours on the discreet graphics) or are the charts just wrong???

FIne print from apple.com for old and new pages below:


NEW
Testing conducted by Apple in October 2011 using preproduction 2.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i7based 17-inch MacBook Pro units and preproduction 2.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i7based 15-inch MacBook Pro units with AMD Radeon HD 6770M.

2.53GHz Intel Core i5-based 17-inch MacBook Pro systems with NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M and 2.66GHz Intel Core i7-based 15-inch MacBook Pro systems with NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M were production units.

All systems were configured with 4GB of RAM.

Tested at native resolutions using Half-Life 2: Episode Two v(4295)(420), Call of Duty 4 v(1.7.1), and Portal 2 v(4710)(620), with 4x anti-aliasing and high graphics quality. Half-Life 2: Episode Two timedemo test file: Storm. Call of Duty 4 timedemo test files: Timedemoambush, Timedemobog, and Timedemopipeline. Portal 2 timedemo test file: Laser stairs. MacBook Pro continuously monitors system thermal and power conditions, and may adjust processor speed as needed to maintain optimal system operation.




OLD
Testing conducted by Apple in February 2011 using preproduction 2.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i7based 17-inch MacBook Pro units and preproduction 2.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i7based 15-inch MacBook Pro units with AMD Radeon HD 6750M.

2.53GHz Intel Core i5based 17-inch MacBook Pro systems and 2.66GHz Intel Core i7based 15-inch MacBook Pro systems with NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M were production units.

All systems were configured with 4GB of RAM. Tested at native resolutions using Portal v(4295)(400) and Half Life 2 Episode 2 v(4295)(420) with 4x antialiasing and high graphics quality. Half Life 2 Episode 2 timedemo test file: Storm. Portal timedemo test file: Mydemo1.

MacBook Pro continuously monitors system thermal and power conditions, and may adjust processor speed as needed to maintain optimal system operation.
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post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I wish they would offer a higher res, non reflective screen as an option on the faster 13"

Yeah! I was thinking the same thing, also since we're talking MacBook Pro they should add a dedicated video card 256MB at least for the high end 13"

zenga
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post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenga View Post

Yeah! I was thinking the same thing, also since we're talking MacBook Pro they should add a dedicated video card 256MB at least for the high end 13"


Combination of heat in a small space and battery life for why we don't see that happen.
post #45 of 75
As expected but a bit early.

The real news will come this winter when Apple releases the iPad 3 and the MacBook Air with iOS on it with an A6 inside. So what will they call it since it is no longer a Mac?
post #46 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

LOL! Been watching Little Britain as well, have you?

Cheers,
PhilBoogie

It's been awhile. I should rewatch the series when the US shows go back in hiatus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

As expected but a bit early.

The real news will come this winter when Apple releases the iPad 3 and the MacBook Air with iOS on it with an A6 inside. So what will they call it since it is no longer a Mac?

With the Mac App Store this allows Apple to change up the architecture with a new SDK and a few months notice, but I assume they still call it a Mac.
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post #47 of 75
Great. Now, since the hardware has been modestly tweaked, very likely Snow Leopard will not boot these models and Lion is being shoved down our throats. I understand the business model, but more and more users will be pissed that they cannot have the alternative of Snow Leopard to support Rosetta, avoid autosave/versioning, etc. Let's hope there's an ample supply of the now-discontinued models available for quite some time.
post #48 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSolu View Post

Great. Now, since the hardware has been modestly tweaked, very likely Snow Leopard will not boot these models and Lion is being shoved down our throats. I understand the business model, but more and more users will be pissed that they cannot have the alternative of Snow Leopard to support Rosetta, avoid autosave/versioning, etc. Let's hope there's an ample supply of the now-discontinued models available for quite some time.

1) System Preferences » Time Machine » Options » Uncheck Lock Documents should will turn off the accidental changes to documents that support Auto Save.

2) if you have PPC apps that haven't been updated at this point you can't reasonably fault Apple. It's been over 6 years since they announced the transition. SIX YEARS!!! And they completed the entire transition to Intel in just over a year which means it's been over 5 years since all new Macs were Intel-based. FIVE YEARS!!! I wouldn't trust a SW vendor that has been that lax to update their software and can't imagine how many users from the PPC days there would be in comparison to those that have found Macs since the transition.
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post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSolu View Post

support Rosetta

Anyone who needs software discontinued for six years won't be caught off guard by Lion.

Quote:
avoid autosave/versioning

OH NO! Apple's making things easier and changing a paradigm that should never have existed in the first place! I'm instantly opposed!

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post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

The real news will come this winter when Apple releases the iPad 3 and the MacBook Air with iOS on it with an A6 inside. So what will they call it since it is no longer a Mac?

1) We're talking probably late March or April (if they stick to prior iPad schedules), so it would be spring, not winter

2) I don't buy the MBA becoming an ARM device running OS X or iOS personally. As low power as the ARM chips are tho, you could potentially produce something that had both intel and arm chips and allow for an iOS environment that ran on top of OS X, but again, I don't see a touchscreen laptop working out well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wouldn't trust a SW vendor that has been that lax to update their software and can't imagine how many users from the PPC days there would be in comparison to those that have found Macs since the transition.

Some of us came from a PC and had software that was dual system (I'm specifically thinking Diablo II here, but I'm sure there are other examples of companies who support both sides) and when I bought my Mini in August I was disappointed when I was going to download the software for D2 only to find that it was entirely PPC code and thus would not run on Lion. I don't expect a game company to completely re-do software that is a decade old just to support Lion tho. Diablo III comes out early next year and I have Torchlight till then
post #51 of 75
Bizarre, it's not even marked as "New" on the Online Store. Stealthiest upgrade yet.
post #52 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Bizarre, it's not even marked as "New" on the Online Store. Stealthiest upgrade yet.

They don't always mark the speed bumps as new.
post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Why not have a major event like they did with the iPhone? The changes to the MacBooks are comparable to the changes made to the i4.

Because one is a flagship product and the other is not.
Because one update was more significant than the other, and more significant than you sarcastically implied.
Because one product is in a still fast-growing market and the other is in a mature market.
Bacause ...

Pick up your game, dude. You used to make good points, even when I disagreed.
post #54 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

I am not sure what you are referring to here (OD bugginess ). I know I for one, would appreciate an explanation.

Not really sure I grok your post at all dude. \

jOhn

D is next to S on the keyboard. I'm sure he meant to refer to OS bugginess. But I am not seeing any real bugginess in OSX 10.7.2 so I can't explain any further what he might mean.
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post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

With no mention of the update, Apple on Monday improved its MacBook Pro lineup with slightly faster Intel processors, as well as new graphics processors and larger hard drives in some models.


[Whispering] Shhhhhh....

These "new" MacBook Pros have OPTICAL DRIVES! (Sorry; I should keep my voice down.)

Apple's MacBook page doesn't give a hint of the minor spec bump that does not include Bluetooth 4.0, and the lone ThunderBolt port is the only way to get video-out.

OH! And Shhhhhhh! The standard configs use...gulp...HARD DRIVES! SSD in an expensive option.

The only Mac Apple wants any attention for is the MacBook Air, so Shhhhhh!

And don't bet a large amount that there will ever be a new Mac Pro. It doesn't mesh with the ensemble. Shhhhhh....
post #56 of 75
Okay I know these are just bumps but would be really nice if they had upgraded bluetooth to 4.0. Just seems strange with everything else getting it. After I can't see them releasing anything new in this area till at least March or April next year.
post #57 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elderloc View Post

Okay I know these are just bumps but would be really nice if they had upgraded bluetooth to 4.0. Just seems strange with everything else getting it. After I can't see them releasing anything new in this area till at least March or April next year.

i was thinking the same thing about bluetooth and i was sure when they update MacBooks bluetooth will also be updated to 4.0 instead of 2.1…
let's hope for the next year's model when they update 13" MacBooks with ivy bridge quad core and bluetooth 4.0

my way or the highway...

Macbook Pro i7 13" with intel SSD 320 series and 8GB RAM, iPhone 5, iPad 3 (Retina)

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my way or the highway...

Macbook Pro i7 13" with intel SSD 320 series and 8GB RAM, iPhone 5, iPad 3 (Retina)

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post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Anyone who needs software discontinued for six years won't be caught off guard by Lion.

OH NO! Apple's making things easier and changing a paradigm that should never have existed in the first place! I'm instantly opposed!

Ooh careful now. I'll give you the Rosetta point in a heartbeat, but suggesting that Lion's autosave/versions implementation is good is where I draw the line. On the contrary they are pretty scary; they make it hard to on-the-fly edit files for different dissemination channels, they at best confuse and at worst cause corruption when involving different drive formats, and most importantly, they firmly wrest control away from the user.

Yes the paradigm makes sense, but only in the post-PC era with new tasksets - present day desktop work tasksets just do not work that way. I've yet to have a positive encounter with autosave in Lion.

Directly on the thread topic, it was nice to see these updates coming quietly, especially with the base 15" GPU up. I have to wonder what if anything is in store for the 13" MBP going ahead though. Ivy Bridge should be seriously exciting whatever happens though!
post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macs2InfinityAndBeyond View Post

These "new" MacBook Pros have OPTICAL DRIVES! (Sorry; I should keep my voice down.)

The only Mac Apple wants any attention for is the MacBook Air

Apple is still dependent on other suppliers before making any major upgrades. They have thrown down the gauntlet in front of Intel to get them to lower the power consumption of their chips and Ivy Bridge coming next year is where we see Intel attempt to meet the challenge.

If they succeed, the 2012 MBP should ditch the optical, have a slimmer enclosure and have quad-core chips running at under 35W TDP and quite possibly SSD-only, although I suspect it will start out as a setup like the iMac with SSD + HDD so not MBA thin but the large size will allow better tapering.
post #60 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

D is next to S on the keyboard. I'm sure he meant to refer to OS bugginess. But I am not seeing any real bugginess in OSX 10.7.2 so I can't explain any further what he might mean.

When I first read OD my brain was thinking it was the Microsoft directory system, but that's AD - Active Directory. Apple does have something called Open Directory, but I have no experience with it.

Either way it sounds like an issue that some companies will see and the rest of us will not.
post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartiNZ View Post

Ooh careful now. I'll give you the Rosetta point in a heartbeat, but suggesting that Lion's autosave/versions implementation is good is where I draw the line. On the contrary they are pretty scary; they make it hard to on-the-fly edit files for different dissemination channels, they at best confuse and at worst cause corruption when involving different drive formats, and most importantly, they firmly wrest control away from the user.

Yes the paradigm makes sense, but only in the post-PC era with new tasksets - present day desktop work tasksets just do not work that way. I've yet to have a positive encounter with autosave in Lion.

Directly on the thread topic, it was nice to see these updates coming quietly, especially with the base 15" GPU up. I have to wonder what if anything is in store for the 13" MBP going ahead though. Ivy Bridge should be seriously exciting whatever happens though!

Something I do every day: open a report from yesterday or last week or last month, make some changes and Save as... a new document.

The Snow Leopard way:
Click on File : Open Recent : document name
Edit
Click Save as...

The Lion way:
Leave the application you're currently in
Use Finder or Spotlight to locate the old document
Use Finder to duplicate
Use Finder to rename it
Open new copy
Edit

I like the Snow Leopard way much better and so should Apple because it reduces the need to know where the document is stored. They seem intent on obfuscating the file system yet a Lion user must know exactly where their files are.

I choose to stay with Rosetta because I have better things to do with my money than send it to Apple and other software companies to replace stuff that still works fine.

I'll never be able to make full use of the features in Photoshop 7. Buying a newer version with even more features I'll never use would be stupid.

The hardware updates were small enough not to disrupt the supply chain much, but large enough to keep up with "inflation". I like the GPU change in the 15".

I hope Apple chooses to make MacBook Air style SSDs standard across the product line next year. A relatively small SSD boot drive paired with a high capacity hard drive would really be the best of both worlds for MBP and iMac users. Even the MacPro, if they choose to keep making one, would benefit from the change. SSD in slot(s) on the motherboard would free up all 4 drive bays for RAID.
post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Something I do every day: open a report from yesterday or last week or last month, make some changes and Save as... a new document.

The Snow Leopard way:
Click on File : Open Recent : document name
Edit
Click Save as...

The Lion way:
Leave the application you're currently in
Use Finder or Spotlight to locate the old document
Use Finder to duplicate
Use Finder to rename it
Open new copy
Edit.

I'm not following you. Lion apps still have Open Recent, and you can also Save As and then choose the location you wish to save a file.
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post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Apple is still dependent on other suppliers before making any major upgrades. They have thrown down the gauntlet in front of Intel to get them to lower the power consumption of their chips and Ivy Bridge coming next year is where we see Intel attempt to meet the challenge.

If they succeed, the 2012 MBP should ditch the optical, have a slimmer enclosure and have quad-core chips running at under 35W TDP and quite possibly SSD-only, although I suspect it will start out as a setup like the iMac with SSD + HDD so not MBA thin but the large size will allow better tapering.

I'm all for SSD and am growing impatient for prices to come down, but a 60GB SSD (SATA II) costs around $100, while a 2TB hard drive costs as low as $70, with 64MB cache, FireWire 800, USB 2 and eSATA.

Love 'em or hate 'em, the 1956 Winchester hard drives are still the best "game in town" for price/performance. (Even tho I don't like it.) Seagate and Hitachi have recently announced the first 4TB drives. (Although, I don't see the advantage over this.)

A Zero Striped Array R.A.I.D. might not be as fast as an SSD, but benchmarks have consistently shown a 90 to 100% speed increase over individual drives.

If consumers no longer have use for optical drives LET THE MARKETPLACE DECIDE!

Would it kill Apple to offer optical drives as BTO options?! If they get a paucity of BTO optical drive orders, then, by all means, eliminate the integrated optical drive.

Meanwhile, Windows desktops and notebooks are starting to offer optical drives with Blu-ray read and at reasonable price points and Blu-ray write (but at much higher price points).

This trend will only continue; prices will come down; and a distinct competitive disadvantage may beset the Mac.

I've already seen ads by Microsoft and others touting integrated Blu-ray drives as a prominent differentiating factor of PCs. (And that's BLU-RAY! let alone a lesser optical drive which Apple appears to be sunsetting.)

Meanwhile, ignoring Apple, several companies and a 19-company standards body (of which Apple is a part!!! ) is already feverishly working on Blu-ray's successor, HVD (and even more impressive optical storage technologies).

And Sony has found that the ever-increasing size of video games is closing in on the capacity of even Blu-ray, and 25GB does not lend itself to online downloads, so it is reportedly working on a higher capacity optical format for the upcoming PS4 that is backwards compatible with current Blu-ray.

Apple customers may someday be stuck starting downloads of terabytes of content at bedtime and hoping it's done the next morning.


post #64 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macs2InfinityAndBeyond View Post

while a 2TB

Speaking of which, you know that 4TB drive that Seagate sells but only in an external case?

Screw 'em. When is WD going to come out with their 5TB drive? They've had the tech to do it for over a year now!

Quote:
a distinct competitive disadvantage may beset the Mac.

So when's that supposed to set in? Because they said that in back in aught six when the first PCs started getting Blu-ray, but Macs have just sold MORE AND MORE units every year since.

Quote:
the ever-increasing size of video games is closing in on the capacity of even Blu-ray

No, that's just bad coding. Games today aren't any longer or any more detailed or more impressive than DVD or even CD-based ones. They just waste more space.

Quote:
Apple customers may someday be stuck starting downloads of terabytes of content at bedtime and hoping it's done the next morning.

Nope. Sweeping change will come long before that's necessary.

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post #65 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

The Lion way:
Leave the application you're currently in
Use Finder or Spotlight to locate the old document
Use Finder to duplicate
Use Finder to rename it
Open new copy
Edit

That's not how I do it... (At least this works in Pages):
Stay in pages
File->Duplicate
Edit
File->Save a version
Enter new filename

While it's certainly confusing at first (because it's different), now that I'm used to it I actually think it's a bit easier than the old way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm not following you. Lion apps still have Open Recent, and you can also Save As and then choose the location you wish to save a file.

Open Recent, yes. Save As... No, at least not in the Lion-aware apps I use (iWork). Save As has been replaced with Duplicate. The end result is the same thing, only Save As requires you to give it a file name. Duplicate does not (you enter the filename when you eventually save your work).
post #66 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by waytogobuddy View Post

Apple's pages show a weird graphics performance DECREASE:
(old on top)
http://imgur.com/lAvek

The Fine Print seems to offer the same Test scenario for Half Life E2, so why has it dropped form X3 to X2 performance? Will there be better battery life? (reviews showing 2.5 hours on the discreet graphics) or are the charts just wrong???

FIne print from apple.com for old and new pages below:

I don't know why Apple put that. I always use notebookcheck.net to compare mobile graphics.
post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I don't know why Apple put that. I always use notebookcheck.net to compare mobile graphics.


It isn't a contradiction. The previous generation is different in the two cases!
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post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm not following you. Lion apps still have Open Recent, and you can also Save As and then choose the location you wish to save a file.

The whole point is that merely opening yesterday's report risks having it changed by Auto-save.

So instead of finding the document I want to update through Open Recent I have to lock yesterday's document and duplicate it first. In fact I have to lock absolutely everything I write once it's done so that merely opening it in the future doesn't cause Auto-save to change the Last Modified date.


Yes there's a big flaw in the old way. After I open yesterday's report and start making changes I could inadvertently hit Save instead of Save as... That's a bad thing that's happened to me a few times, but I can accept that because it was HUMAN ERROR.

Auto-save is the MACHINE thinking it knows what I want to do. It's supposed to do my bidding not try to think for me.
post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by waytogobuddy View Post

Apple's pages show a weird graphics performance DECREASE:
(old on top)

The Fine Print seems to offer the same Test scenario for Half Life E2, so why has it dropped form X3 to X2 performance? Will there be better battery life? (reviews showing 2.5 hours on the discreet graphics) or are the charts just wrong???

As waytogobuddy mentioned, does anyone have any insight as to why apple would change 3x faster to 2x faster in graphic performance? Aren't the graphic cards better in this new macbook pro refresh?
post #70 of 75
(Edit: Nevermind, mind wandered on to something else)
post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I don't know why Apple put that. I always use notebookcheck.net to compare mobile graphics.

It could be the previous Nvidia GPU MBP models had driver updates that improved performance, making the ATI improvements less stark.

So assuming Apple re-tested everything with latest updates and 10.7.1 or 10.7.2, this could lead to the more "realistic" graphs Apple is showing.

Especially with Valve's Source port to Macs, they did mention a lot of times drivers and stuff were quite unoptimised... Through this year though the situation has improved, especially in light, I think, of Valve moving the Mac to first-tier release status.

Notebookcheck.net is only a rough guide, since a lot of the benchmarks are AFAIK mostly if you're running Windows. Graphics drivers are always changing as well, especially for Windows. That's why I abandoned the PC and moved on to Xbox360. I just want to play the darn game, not update my graphic driver, update Windows, this, that, deal with glitches, etc. etc. etc!

Plus the PC industry never figured out a way to make a simple, elegant, powerful gaming PC that could sit nicely on your home theatre shelf and hook up easily to your HDTV at a non-ridiculous price point. The PC and PS3 are grotesque beasts compared to the latest Xbox360 slim... which isn't perfect but the best option IMO.
post #72 of 75
As soon as I saw this article, I went online to order a new MacBook Pro. Big mistake choosing the cheapest price. I sprung for the overnight priority shipping, and low and behold, the next day it had not shipped. Called MacMall - we needed to verify the ship to and payment method - ok - verified. 5:00pst rolls around, still hasnt shipped. I call - "sir, i will personally monitor this and call you back within 45 minutes and update you on the status". 3 hours, no call. I call them - "I'm sorry, I dont see a status change yet"..... why not admit that you dont have the damn thing in stock yet so you cant ship it. I will never purchase anything from them again. Guess i'm driving an hour to the apple store tomorrow. At least they wont lie to me!
post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjack2036 View Post

Stay away from Macmall

No, they're pretty much the best source out there. I'll go to them if I choose to.

Quote:
I will never purchase anything from them again.

Enjoy inconveniencing yourself.

Quote:
Guess i'm driving an hour to the apple store tomorrow. At least they wont lie to me!

You're joking, right? "Won't lie to me," that's a good one!

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post #74 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjack2036 View Post

As soon as I saw this article, I went online to order a new MacBook Pro. Big mistake choosing the cheapest price. I sprung for the overnight priority shipping, and low and behold, the next day it had not shipped. Called MacMall - we needed to verify the ship to and payment method - ok - verified. 5:00pst rolls around, still hasnt shipped. I call - "sir, i will personally monitor this and call you back within 45 minutes and update you on the status". 3 hours, no call. I call them - "I'm sorry, I dont see a status change yet"..... why not admit that you dont have the damn thing in stock yet so you cant ship it. I will never purchase anything from them again. Guess i'm driving an hour to the apple store tomorrow. At least they wont lie to me!

Well sorry to hear you had problems. You did make me glad that I ordered directly from Apple. I was one click away from ordering from MacMall. Then at the last minute I decided I wanted the hi-res display. So I ordered BTO form Apple and it shipped from China the next day. The downside is paying sales tax through Apple. The upside is a free printer after rebate.
post #75 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

It isn't a contradiction. The previous generation is different in the two cases!

Apple's fine print suggests otherwise.
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