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Combined Mac and iOS shipment growth would make Apple world's second largest PC maker

post #1 of 42
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iPad and Mac shipments both outgrew the Windows PC market in CYQ3 2011, and if combined would boast a 99% growth rate and make Apple the second largest PC maker in the world.

In a report released on Tuesday, analyst Horace Dediu of asymco contrasts Apple's Mac OSX's 27.7% growth rate with Windows-based systems' 2.5% for the third quarter of 2011. He added that if iPads were included with Mac OS X, Apple's "computer" shipment growth rate would be 99%, making it the world's number two PC maker with 15% market share, falling just short of HP's 15.7%.

Apple sold a record 11.2 million iPad units in the quarter ending in September seeing a 166% unit growth, doubling the company's PC shipment growth despite a record-breaking 4.89 million Macs shipped.

During Apples Oct. 18 quarterly earnings conference call, Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook admitted that iPad sales cannibalized Mac sales but that iPad growth is coming primarily at the expense of Windows PCs.

With cannibalization like this, I hope it continues, Cook said.

By comparison, Windows PC makers are seeing "low-end disruption," or losses in market share over the last three years, with the most affected companies being smaller OEMs, which decreased 10.5% to around 30% share. Larger manufacturers like HP, Acer and Dell lost 2.6%, 3.9% and 3.4% share respectively, while Lenovo saw a 4.48% growth over the same period.

While small "other" OEMs have seen a decrease in share in the low-end PC industry, similar small companies are growing in the mobile phone sector as communication moves up market, which he calls "new market disruption." The "other" phone OEMs grew from 15% to 24% in the same quarter.

The analyst sees Apple taking advantage of the "low-end disruption" in the PC sector with the iPad, and "new market disruption" in the mobile phone market with its iPhone line.



Dediu suggested that the company's Mac business continues to grow alongside iOS devices is because its PC line consists of 74% portables," with products like the MacBook Pro and Air being largely unmatched" and having "a near monopoly in their target price.

Although Apples Mac line has continued to see a higher growth rate than PCs for more than 20 quarters, Windows still holds the 82% of the market, followed by iOS with 10.5%, OS X with 4.7% and Android with around 3%.
post #2 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

iPad and Mac shipments both outgrew the Windows PC market in CYQ3 2011, and if combined would boast a 99% growth rate and make Apple the second largest PC maker in the world.

He added that if iOS devices were included with OSX, Apple's "computer" shipment growth rate would be 99%


So are we talking about all iOS devices or just the iPad? It wouldn't make much sense to include the iPod Touch or the iPhone if we're talking about being the largest 'PC' manufacturer (and TBH, including iPads is a bit of a stretch even though it does make sense).
post #3 of 42
And HP who are the only ones ahead of Apple are really serious about the PC business ... Oh wait a minute ...
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #4 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post


So are we talking about all iOS devices or just the iPad? It wouldn't make much sense to include the iPod Touch or the iPhone if we're talking about being the largest 'PC' manufacturer (and TBH, including iPads is a bit of a stretch even though it does make sense).

I was told by someone at a store last week that the iPad is not a computer ..
post #5 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post


So are we talking about all iOS devices or just the iPad? It wouldn't make much sense to include the iPod Touch or the iPhone if we're talking about being the largest 'PC' manufacturer (and TBH, including iPads is a bit of a stretch even though it does make sense).

Just the iPad. HP shipped 16.6 million PCs. Apple shipped 11.2 million iPads and 4.9 million Macs. AI's headline is misleading.

I don't think it's a stretch at all. I use my iPad as a laptop replacement. I'm starting to wish I had Xcode on there.
post #6 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post


So are we talking about all iOS devices or just the iPad? It wouldn't make much sense to include the iPod Touch or the iPhone if we're talking about being the largest 'PC' manufacturer (and TBH, including iPads is a bit of a stretch even though it does make sense).

My thoughts exactly.

I too was confused about whether the stat was about Mac and iPad or Mac and all iOS. I agree that considering it appropriate to aggregate sales of the Touch with sales of Mac Pros is maybe a bit overbroad.

Including iPads may be a stretch, or it may be appropriate. I think that history will teach us, as things progress. The iPad may well be a transition device to a new class of electronic wonderment. It may be the new form factor for personal computers.

We don't know yet.

But including iPads in with Macs makes a certain amount of sense even now, I think, if it is indeed true that iPad sales displace Mac and PC sales. If so, they can (and maybe should) be considered together.

The most interesting analysis, however, would slice and dice things in many different ways, so we could see all the differences. Too often these stories concentrate on a single way of looking at the data, or only a few highlights, rather than giving lots of perspectives.
post #7 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

And HP who are the only ones ahead of Apple are really serious about the PC business ... Oh wait a minute ...

That really is a sad commentary on the industry. Sad but true.
post #8 of 42
So am I to understand that iOS has cannibalized OSX?
OSX is really only 4.7%?
post #9 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post

I was told by someone at a store last week that the iPad is not a computer ..

I was told by someone at a store last week that the iMac is not a computer...
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post #10 of 42
Imagine how large that number becomes when you include all the Mac, iPad and iPhone clones on the market.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #11 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I was told by someone at a store last week that the iMac is not a computer...

That's not even the same thought. \ You know what I meant. The iPad is "not" a computer.
post #12 of 42
That is one bizarre chart.
post #13 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post

That's not even the same thought. \ You know what I meant. The iPad is "not" a computer.

You don't recall the years of comments that Macs aren't PCs? Your comment is the same rhetoric. So why aren't iPads PCs or computers? Are they not personal? Do they not compute?

Last year the complaint was that you had to use PC to activate and update the device. That's no longer true so what keeps Apple's tablet from a PC while decades of other tablets still get to be called PCs?

You actually have a definition to use that would make sense but you offered none so it looks like you're just mimicking someone's anti-Apple agenda.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #14 of 42
*Chuckles*

I posted this in a previous article about how iPad is ruling tablet for web usage and iOS is the leading mobile platform...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It's fantastic how quick and easy it is to recategorized devices depending on the statistic one is trying to peddle. The iPad is like the chameleon of consumer devices! This is how conversations go down on AI...


These PC OS platform statistics look terrible!
Well duh! OS platforms aren't important. Individual vendors are! Ah, that's a lot better! But these "largest PC vendor" stats don't look right. Apple isn't quite at the top!
You want to beef up those "largest PC vendor" stats, just include the iPad. Simple! Hang on... if the iPad is counted as a "PC" then what are we going to do with the "media tablet" stats?
No worries, just include the iPad there as well! Oh no! I've just realized iOS isn't the highest selling smart phone OS
Well duh! Individual vendors aren't important. OS platforms are! That makes heaps of sense! If only we didn't include the iPad as a PC and a media tablet we could create a new "mobile OS" category that iOS can win!
Well that's where you would be wrong! The iPad fits right in that statistic as well! It's quite obviously a media PC tablet mobile OS device computer Cool. So is Android's growth much higher than iOS at the moment?
Market share doesn't matter. It's all about how many apps your platform has Doesn't Android have a lot of apps as well?
Didn't I just tell you? It's all about the quality of apps your platform has Oh. Well that makes sense. Isn't Android getting a lot of quality apps now as well?
Who cares about that? Don't you even understand how much of the mobile industries profit ends up at Apple? It's more than every other company combined. 70% of the iPhone price is pure profit!!!!!! Doesn't that mean Apple over-charged me for my iPhone?
You don't understand the difference between cost and value. Well now I'm confused.
Fandroid.
post #15 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You don't recall the years of comments that Macs aren't PCs? Your comment is the same rhetoric. So why aren't iPads PCs or computers? Are they not personal? Do they not compute?

Last year the complaint was that you had to use PC to activate and update the device. That's no longer true so what keeps Apple's tablet from a PC while decades of other tablets still get to be called PCs?

You actually have a definition to use that would make sense but you offered none so it looks like you're just mimicking someone's anti-Apple agenda.

I've heard people say that any computer that doesn't run Windows is merely a toy. Apple is always claimed to be a company that sells very expensive but not very useful toys.
post #16 of 42
If they would just add a file manager capability to iOS and a shared file space for apps, iOS devices would arguably be PC's. Should be pretty simple to just create a Finder-like app ported from OSX and give apps permission to access at least a limited shared file space.
post #17 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I was told by someone at a store last week that the iMac is not a computer...

I was told by someone at a store last week that a fish isn't a tree.
post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Although Apples Mac line has continued to see a higher growth rate than PCs for more than 20 quarters...

While I'm sure you are just repeating something you read, that statistic always sounds like it was written intentionally to deceive. When the PC side grows by roughly 300 million units in 2010 and the Mac side grows by 20 million units, that is not higher growth.
post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelstuff View Post

While I'm sure you are just repeating something you read, that statistic always sounds like it was written intentionally to deceive. When the PC side grows by roughly 300 million units in 2010 and the Mac side grows by 20 million units, that is not higher growth.

You've failed to understand that it's about percentage. You've also failed to understand that a single PC vendor within all vendors selling PCs will obviously sell less units than the whole, which should have a been a red flag that you're not reading the data correctly.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by X38 View Post

If they would just add a file manager capability to iOS and a shared file space for apps, iOS devices would arguably be PC's. Should be pretty simple to just create a Finder-like app ported from OSX and give apps permission to access at least a limited shared file space.

Never. Gonna. Happen.

It was a conscious decision for iOS to NOT have a file manager.
post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... that iPad sales cannibalized Mac sales but that iPad growth is coming primarily at the expense of Windows PCs. ...

And it is exactly the low end of the PC market that used to be responsible for the market (and mind) share with price-minded buyers (families and company projects, even schools, on a tight budget).

But with the iPad, Apple now is undercutting a large part of that market. Except for the power typists, the iPad more than fulfills the needs of those consumers.

Maybe Apple should advertise (and detail) more the potential of using an iPad with bluetooth keyboards.

The fact that iOS5 also removes the need of a "master" computer to run iTunes, will further simplify the "system management" aspect of owning a computing device.
post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post

I was told by someone at a store last week that the iPad is not a computer ..

The iPad is a computer, but the iPad is not a PC
post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post


I don't think it's a stretch at all. I use my iPad as a laptop replacement. I'm starting to wish I had Xcode on there.

Precisely why it's not a "computer". When people say computer, depending on who those people are, they may mean " a machine to access email and facebook and youtube" or "a general purpose machine capable of creating new programs". iPad is not the latter, but definitely fits the bill for the first category of people...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #24 of 42
iPad is a great thin client anyway.

Just setup your Lion Server (or just an iMac, or a Linux, why not) and voilÃ*, you get the best of computing

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post

I was told by someone at a store last week that the iPad is not a computer ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I was told by someone at a store last week that the iMac is not a computer...

I was told by someone at a store last week that I couldn't use the iPhone I just bought without an 'iPhone subscription.'
post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelstuff View Post

While I'm sure you are just repeating something you read, that statistic always sounds like it was written intentionally to deceive. When the PC side grows by roughly 300 million units in 2010 and the Mac side grows by 20 million units, that is not higher growth.

There's a difference between "growth" and "growth rate". It's like the difference between "speed" and "acceleration". It's not how fast you're going but how fast you're getting faster that matters the most.
post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Precisely why it's not a "computer". When people say computer, depending on who those people are, they may mean " a machine to access email and facebook and youtube" or "a general purpose machine capable of creating new programs". iPad is not the latter, but definitely fits the bill for the first category of people...

It's amusing to watch the shifting and arbitrary definitions people come up with to "prove" the iPad is not a computer. BTW, there have been a number of "computers" historically that, when applying the "capable of creating new programs" criteria strictly enough to exclude the iPad, would not qualify as a computer. By every meaningful and generally accepted definition of 'computer', the iPad is a computer, and so is the iPhone. Arguing that it isn't just makes you look ridiculous.
post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post


So are we talking about all iOS devices or just the iPad? It wouldn't make much sense to include the iPod Touch or the iPhone if we're talking about being the largest 'PC' manufacturer (and TBH, including iPads is a bit of a stretch even though it does make sense).

They're just talking about the iPad - since a lot of people are apparently using a tablet in place of a computer, but very few would replace their computer with an iPhone or iPod Touch. Essentially, the iPad is the Netbook for this generation.

The problem with the chart is that they should have added all the other tablets, as well. Granted, the numbers are small, but if they're going to include the iPad, they should have included the Touchpad, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

And HP who are the only ones ahead of Apple are really serious about the PC business ... Oh wait a minute ...

ROTFLMAO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

That is one bizarre chart.

Actually, I think they did it well. They showed most of the important information - Mac vs Windows growth rates and then they added a separate line for what the numbers would be if you included the iPad. This recognizes that the iPad is sort of in-between. It's not a full blown PC, but it can be used as one in many cases, so it's worth tracking separately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelstuff View Post

While I'm sure you are just repeating something you read, that statistic always sounds like it was written intentionally to deceive. When the PC side grows by roughly 300 million units in 2010 and the Mac side grows by 20 million units, that is not higher growth.

He specifically said growth RATE. The growth rate is not a function of the number of units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

I was told by someone at a store last week that I couldn't use the iPhone I just bought without an 'iPhone subscription.'

You can. You can use it to run apps or you can jail break it if you wish.
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post #29 of 42
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post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Indeed it is. It shows a steep plummet for Apple sales after Q4 but is labeled a success story.

I guess what it REALLY shows is that you are unable to read a chart.

It shows that Apple's GROWTH RATE has dropped, but Apple is still growing at several times the industry rate.
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post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Precisely why it's not a "computer". When people say computer, depending on who those people are, they may mean " a machine to access email and facebook and youtube" or "a general purpose machine capable of creating new programs". iPad is not the latter, but definitely fits the bill for the first category of people...

For the purposes of market research it would be crazy to use the latter definition, though, since 99% of those customers, both consumer and enterprise, don't care if they can create new programs. The fact is that the iPad is replacing laptop computers. It's being "hired to do the same job." I don't actually know anyone who uses their iPad as a "media tablet." I see iPads in situations I used to see laptops, such as people taking notes as conferences, and not in "media consumption" situations. I'm pretty sure the iPad isn't displacing the television or the iPod, for example. It makes a great e-reader but that's clearly not all people use it for. It is, always has been and always will be a laptop replacement.
post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Indeed it is. It shows a steep plummet for Apple sales after Q4 but is labeled a success story.


That's because it's showing the growth RATE for the iPad. In Q1 0f 10, when the iPad first came out, it went straight up because there was no growth rate from the year before to compare it to. But by Q4 of 10, after a year, there was a growth RATE to compare it to and thus the beginning of the steep drop. It's still label a success story for those that knows how to read the chart. No where in the chart does it indicate that sales of the iPad has plummet.
post #33 of 42
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post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Yes, I had skimmed the article and clearly misread it,. Thanks for mansplaining that.

Still, if you've been here long enough you've seen that other declining growth rates, such as posts about netbook growth rates throughout 2010, were taken by the regulars here as a reflection of sales numbers. So at least I'm in good company with this apparently common mistake.

Good point. Apple's sales numbers are much like netbook sales numbers, in that they are either both stellar or both dropping off a cliff, depending on how many times you hit me in the head with a hammer.
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post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's amusing to watch the shifting and arbitrary definitions people come up with to "prove" the iPad is not a computer. BTW, there have been a number of "computers" historically that, when applying the "capable of creating new programs" criteria strictly enough to exclude the iPad, would not qualify as a computer. By every meaningful and generally accepted definition of 'computer', the iPad is a computer, and so is the iPhone. Arguing that it isn't just makes you look ridiculous.

I was going to say pretty much the same thing. It wasn't very long ago that we were solemnly informed that the iPad could never be a real computer as long as it had to tether to a real real computer to setup, update and sync.

Now that iOS 5 eliminates those dependencies, I guess "must be able to program on" is the new fallback to avoid admitting the iPad is a computer. Of course, once programming apps begin to appear, we'll just move on to something else-- "Must have real keyboard"? "Must run software that also runs on desktop machines"? "No touching allowed"?
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post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

That's because it's showing the growth RATE for the iPad. In Q1 0f 10, when the iPad first came out, it went straight up because there was no growth rate from the year before to compare it to. But by Q4 of 10, after a year, there was a growth RATE to compare it to and thus the beginning of the steep drop. It's still label a success story for those that knows how to read the chart. No where in the chart does it indicate that sales of the iPad has plummet.

That's what's wrong with it. Increases are graphically depicted as drops if they don't exceed the previous rate of increase, even if the total is larger.. It may be LESS of an increase, but the number is still increasing. Chart fail.
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I was going to say pretty much the same thing. It wasn't very long ago that we were solemnly informed that the iPad could never be a real computer as long as it had to tether to a real real computer to setup, update and sync.

Now that iOS 5 eliminates those dependencies, I guess "must be able to program on" is the new fallback to avoid admitting the iPad is a computer. Of course, once programming apps begin to appear, we'll just move on to something else--

http://twolivesleft.com/Codify/
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

http://twolivesleft.com/Codify/

Quick, we need a new excuse why the iPad isn't a pc.
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Quick, we need a new excuse why the iPad isn't a pc.

We don't need any excuse, it is simple, the iPad is a computer, the iPad isn't a PC. Just like a truck is a vehicle, but a truck isn't a car.

They are categories of devices, simply concept.
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

We don't need any excuse, it is simple, the iPad is a computer, the iPad isn't a PC. Just like a truck is a vehicle, but a truck isn't a car.

They are categories of devices, simply concept.

Right, all PCs are computers, but it's not the case that all computers are PCs. On the other hand, it's a pretty ill-defined category to begin with, so if someone wants to refer to tablets as personal computers... they are after all computers that are fairly personal, the lines are blurred.

I think categories like desktop, laptop, tablet are much more useful than PC
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