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Nokia launches first Windows Phones to take on Apple's iPhone 4S - Page 4

post #121 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Does this mean all the Android fan boiz will go over to Windows forums and post nonsense about Windows mobile now, instead of trolling here every day?

I suspect Windows mobile will grab some market share and remaining around for a while because Microsoft has strong ties with corporate IT, and they receive a $5 subsidy on every Android phone sold.

Whatever the outcome, expect a big uptick in "anal-systs" making predictions about smartphone market share and units shipped vs units sold. And they will all be wrong.

Personally, I am waiting on the Amazon Kindle phone.

Personally, I would ask restraint in the use of the "fan boiz" term. It's good to hear contradictory arguments. It's good to hear something that you don't agree with. If for no other reason than to force you to rethink your own views. Yes, trolls can be tiresome. Ignore the ones you can. Some however, do have legitimate points.
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post #122 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4miler View Post

It's quite possible that if/when Windows 8 takes off among people that need content-creation pads, rather than one primarily focused on content-consumption, there may be a halo-effect where people will be attracted to Windows phone.

We will only know where this smartphone game is headed about 2 years after the launch of Windows 8.

From here on, the smartphone game is tied to the fate of Windows 8, and whether Windows 8 can generate a halo effect of people getting Windows phones.

As I've pointed out before, Windows has long been on tablet computers, using pen interfaces. These are fully capable of running real Windows applications. Why are you waiting for Windows 8 for "content creation pads"?

As for the so-called halo effect that you think Windows 8 is suppose have on WP7, remember that the highly popular iPhone had a halo effect on the iPad, which critics called a "giant iPod Touch". If WP7's Metro interface wasn't enough to be a hit on its own, why would waiting for Windows 8 Metro going to change anyone's mind about WP7? That's like saying the Zune wasn't very popular, but if we put Zune inside WP7, that'll suddenly make people care about Zune. Do you think it's because people haven't given Metro a chance, and that if they are forced to use it, they will want the same in their phone?

"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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post #123 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

Why give free publicity to a product that would most likely not make any impact in the market?

For the same reason Apple sued eMachines over the eOne, a product that would most likely have not made any impact in the market.
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post #124 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I personally think WP7 trumps iOS and Android on the visual side (I like that minimalist ish) but from a functionality standpoint the OS feels very boring and cold and static (despite the moving 'parts')

I get bored with WP7 even faster than I get bored with iOS app launcher homescreen.

Could you please contrast WP7's "boring and cold" with warm and dynamic functions on the iPhone?

Not having used one yet, my only complaint about Windows Phone is that ugly Start screen. Those large monochrome tiles are aesthetically unpleasing. Perhaps functional. But definitely ugly.
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post #125 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post



Where have I seen this post before..oh yeah, before every single product Microsoft (or anyone else non-Apple for that matter) has released over the past 10 years. Absolutely hilarious. Yes, things can change and noone knows what the future holds. But these 'sleeping giant' posts are idiotic, especially after all these years. I can't see these being threats to iPhones in any way, shape, or form. What, the Nokia hardware is going to turn the tide? Nokia doesn't have a shadow of the brand power it once did. And Win 7 phones have been a market failure so far. I don't see whats changed.

That giant's not sleeping! It's in a coma!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #126 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The fact is that we'll never be forcibly limited to LTE (or wireless in general) for Internet

Sprint charges $10 a month for 4G services - even if you don't have access to a 4G cell. And 4G services suck battery life like nobody's business. And yet, you can't turn it off. So yes, while nobody will ever sell a 4G-only phone (No 3G fallback), you may be forced into 4G land whether you like it or not. Hopefully, the next generation of chips will be a little better.
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post #127 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's 420 which is $584. That's below, but in the range of the iPhone 4S, not the iPhone 3GS.

That price is "excluding taxes and subsidies" according to the original article. Is it not true that the value-added tax in many countries is breathtaking? It's apparently 19% in Germany, which would make quite a difference in this comparison.
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post #128 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBoar View Post

OK, so what if the W7phone is as good as a similarly priced Android or iOS phone. To sell it has to be prefered for some reason. To get something like all the apps and music in iTunes is to trival thing and then they still only have parity.

Sometimes people just want change. Today, the hipsters are already complaining that their parents are using iPhones. They wouldn't be caught dead using the same phone as their parents. There will always be a market for alternatives. It won't necessarily have to be significantly better than what you have now. It just has to be different.
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post #129 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

OK, you've defined "maturing". Now what features do you feel are lacking? What in particular needs maturation? You wouldn't buy one today because you think it needs to mature. Well, what needs to mature? Is it simply a usability issue? The interface is different enough from iOS and Android that you weren't sure how to use it? Would time be enough? Or do you think the UI needs to become more iOS like?

I will try to answer some of your questions as best i can. I like Win7 phone. I liked the tile look to the UI. But I found I cound naviagte to find....settings for example. It took me a couple of minutes. I tried to find the basic functions I do on my current phone (IP4s) and do them on the Win7 phone and it was not as easy to do. Simple things like see what the weather was outside. Look up contacts...go to the internet and search for the nearest coffe shop. I think you hit on a big issue was I was not fmiliar with the OS enough. I only had about 10 minutes at the Verizon store to play with it. I really like the tiles though....that is a big winner for me. It reminds me of widgets on the Android OS. I wish IOS had widgets. I would venture to say that if I had one then I would grow to like it! BUT what about the phone and Win7 is attractive enough for me to spend the time to learn another mobile OS? Right now for me there isn't enough to grab my attention and get one.
So far this year I have had the following phones: IP3Gs, Motorola Atrix, HTC EVO, HTC Thunderbolt, Motorola Bionic, IP4s. I like the mobile space and will contiue to get more of them. But there isn't a compelling reason yet (for me anyway) to get a Win7 phone.

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #130 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

As I've pointed out before, Windows has long been on tablet computers, using pen interfaces. These are fully capable of running real Windows applications. Why are you waiting for Windows 8 for "content creation pads"?

Because Windows today works terribly on tablet computers. Windows 8 will introduce the new Metro interface which has been designed specifically for tablet computers. It will feature a multi-touch interface - not available in previous pen-based tablets.
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post #131 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:54am
[QUOTE=Curmudgeon;1974984]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBoar View Post

OK, so what if the W7phone is as good as a similarly priced Android or iOS phone. To sell it has to be prefered for some reason. To get something like all the apps and music in iTunes is to trival thing and then they still only have parity./QUOTE]

Sometimes people just want change. Today, the hipsters are already complaining that their parents are using iPhones. They wouldn't be caught dead using the same phone as their parents. There will always be a market for alternatives. It won't necessarily have to be significantly better than what you have now. It just has to be different.

That my friend is a true statement! My teenage son doesn't want a iPhone becuse both of his parents have one......He is due for an upgrade and he wants the new Motorola Razr.

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #132 of 204
10/26/11 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

If WP7's Metro interface wasn't enough to be a hit on its own, why would waiting for Windows 8 Metro going to change anyone's mind about WP7?

Because a billion people will eventually upgrade to Windows 8. Windows is the world wide desktop standard. Users will come face-to-face with the new Metro interface. Eventually, they will become comfortable with it. Seeing that same interface on a phone may appeal to them. They'll realize they already know quite a bit about how to use it and what it's capable of.
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post #133 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I will try to answer some of your questions as best i can. I like Win7 phone. I liked the tile look to the UI. But I found I cound naviagte to find....settings for example. It took me a couple of minutes. I tried to find the basic functions I do on my current phone (IP4s) and do them on the Win7 phone and it was not as easy to do. Simple things like see what the weather was outside. Look up contacts...go to the internet and search for the nearest coffe shop. I think you hit on a big issue was I was not fmiliar with the OS enough. I only had about 10 minutes at the Verizon store to play with it. I really like the tiles though....that is a big winner for me. It reminds me of widgets on the Android OS. I wish IOS had widgets. I would venture to say that if I had one then I would grow to like it! BUT what about the phone and Win7 is attractive enough for me to spend the time to learn another mobile OS? Right now for me there isn't enough to grab my attention and get one.
So far this year I have had the following phones: IP3Gs, Motorola Atrix, HTC EVO, HTC Thunderbolt, Motorola Bionic, IP4s. I like the mobile space and will contiue to get more of them. But there isn't a compelling reason yet (for me anyway) to get a Win7 phone.

I'm curious as to the impact of widgets on battery life.

I haven't used a Windows Phone yet, so this is purely speculation. But I would think that anybody that's really into social media would love it. If you're one of those that live for FaceBook and Twitter, you might really like Windows Phone. Rather than separate apps managed separately, those functions are built into the phone. The phone's social integration is very interesting.
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post #134 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Because a billion people will eventually upgrade to Windows 8. Windows is the world wide desktop standard. Users will come face-to-face with the new Metro interface. Eventually, they will become comfortable with it. Seeing that same interface on a phone may appeal to them. They'll realize they already know quite a bit about how to use it and what it's capable of.

I have the devlopers copy of Windows 8 dual boot on my iMac and love! I like the Metro interface. The same as what is on the Win 7 phones. I like Win 8 a nd can't wait for more releases to test the OS. I will definatley get it when it is released. But there is a learning curve to the OS.

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #135 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post



Where have I seen this post before..oh yeah, before every single product Microsoft (or anyone else non-Apple for that matter) has released over the past 10 years. Absolutely hilarious. Yes, things can change and noone knows what the future holds. But these 'sleeping giant' posts are idiotic, especially after all these years. I can't see these being threats to iPhones in any way, shape, or form. What, the Nokia hardware is going to turn the tide? Nokia doesn't have a shadow of the brand power it once did. And Win 7 phones have been a market failure so far. I don't see whats changed.

I think what you say has a lot of merit, but I would never count M$ out. They have come into markets and changed them before, and they continue to be strong in many areas.

That being said, given how fast the smartphone market is growing, I think that there will be plenty of room for the three platforms to each do very well. Once smartphones are a mature market, the zero sum game begins. But as of now, the pie is growing so fast that everybody can get big pieces.
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post #136 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I'd love to design an ad for Apple. A three your old is given a Windows phone to play with to keep it quiet and the adult says "Here you go, you will be able to use this with your chubby little fingers." the toddler looks at it then toss it over his shoulder and pulls an iPhone out of his diapers and says "Siri, where is mom?"




...except the 3-year-old would be wearing pull-ups (wee poop pants) and the adult, likely, grabbed the toddler's iPad

...Mango... Mangy... We don't need no stinkin' ZunePhone!
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post #137 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Is "dual-core" simply a check-box on your shopping list? Or do you believe there's some function that can't be performed properly on a single core system? Note that I'm not trying to pick a fight. I've just heard a bunch of folks hankering for a dual-core CPU, but without stating why they think it's necessary. I do honestly want to know.

Few technologies are "necessary", meaning that things are impossible without them. But in general, more CPU horsepower is a Good Thing, and multicore chips are a good way of getting that. Background processes can, in some cases, run more smoothly.

Listen - nobody needs a V12 engine either. But they are smooth and powerful.
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post #138 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I think what you say has a lot of merit, but I would never count M$ out. They have come into markets and changed them before, and they continue to be strong in many areas.

That being said, given how fast the smartphone market is growing, I think that there will be plenty of room for the three platforms to each do very well. Once smartphones are a mature market, the zero sum game begins. But as of now, the pie is growing so fast that everybody can get big pieces.

I agree. If MS had waited until 2014 to re-enter the smartphone market then I think they wouldn't have a chance... but there is still so much room to expand... and this is why I also think iOS still has plenty of time to take market share away from Android.

Soon, though, the zero sum game begins...
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post #139 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Few technologies are "necessary", meaning that things are impossible without them. But in general, more CPU horsepower is a Good Thing, and multicore chips are a good way of getting that. Background processes can, in some cases, run more smoothly.

Listen - nobody needs a V12 engine either. But they are smooth and powerful.

Are you willing to give up battery life today for your dual-core CPU? That's the trade-off. V12's suck gas like crazy.

Every function in a portable computer is a compromise to battery life.
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post #140 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Never count out MS...they are known for their third iteration being a hit -- windows 3.1 for example...

Windows CE on checkbook size PCs that connected to external modems in the mid 90s was attempt 1,

Windows Pocket PC/Mobile on palm like devices and phones like the Palm Treo was take 2,

Win Phone is try three. the one where they get it right usually...and they have xbox and Zune, which gives them a leg up in gaming, and subscribtion music on every phone, apple cant do the latter,

Err... perhaps you haven't been following MS in the news:

Microsoft kills Zune player
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #141 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Err... perhaps you haven't been following MS in the news:

Microsoft kills Zune player

They didn't kill it, Dick.

Uh, just a moment, yes they did...

Hold the phone... nope, Zune is still up and running...

Whoops... spoke to soon... looks like it is dead for sure...

[to be continued]

We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #142 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:40pm
Nice work on the curved glass, too bad it's shaped the wrong way. The curve should follow the face. This is curved so that holding it to the face, the glass will hit the jaw bone, which will probably be annoying whaawhaa
Cheers !
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Cheers !
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post #143 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Sprint charges $10 a month for 4G services - even if you don't have access to a 4G cell. And 4G services suck battery life like nobody's business. And yet, you can't turn it off. So yes, while nobody will ever sell a 4G-only phone (No 3G fallback), you may be forced into 4G land whether you like it or not. Hopefully, the next generation of chips will be a little better.

Sorry, no context. He was saying that in the future, there would only be cell Internet service and absolutely no wired home ISPs (in addition to what I've already said), which is nonsense.
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post #144 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman619 View Post

Nice work on the curved glass, too bad it's shaped the wrong way. The curve should follow the face. This is curved so that holding it to the face, the glass will hit the jaw bone, which will probably be annoying whaawhaa

Perhaps the glass is curved to reflect light away from the surface - to prevent glare. Not to curve around your face.
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post #145 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman619 View Post

Nice work on the curved glass, too bad it's shaped the wrong way. The curve should follow the face. This is curved so that holding it to the face, the glass will hit the jaw bone, which will probably be annoying whaawhaa

So many dirty thoughts have come to my mind.
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post #146 of 204
10/26/11 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Sorry, no context. He was saying that in the future, there would only be cell Internet service and absolutely no wired home ISPs (in addition to what I've already said), which is nonsense.

Comcast will never have that.
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post #147 of 204
10/26/11 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

Apple makes the macbook pro in 3 sizes and the macbook air in two sizes, and has just recently discontinued the macbook plastic. not to mention the iPod: Touch, Nano, Shuffle, and Classic.

Apple is a great company that makes what sells, and there is definitely a market for huge 4.5"+ screen phones as well as super small phones.

I don't agree about a bigger iPhone with a bigger screen -- a larger edge-to-edge display (same aspect ratio) on the same size device would be OK though.

I find that I carry my iPad with me almost everywhere -- and much prefer using it than the iPhone (except for Siri).


As to "Apple is a great company that makes what sells"... I agree, but it is more than that -- Apple often creates the market for what sells.

To paraphrase Steve's quote of Wayne Gretzky:

"Apple skates to where the $buck is going to be!"

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #148 of 204
10/26/11 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

So many dirty thoughts have come to my mind.

Linkgx1, meet the gutter. Gutter, meet linkgx1.
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post #149 of 204
10/26/11 at 1:02pm
I do like the curved glass idea.
{2010 Mac Pro-6 core 3.33-12gb 1333 ram-ati5870-velociraptor 600's-SL/win7/64-Konnekt Live/Onkyo-Dell3007wfp}
{2008 Mac Pro-8 core 3.2's-16GB-evga285} {MBP17}{ipad}{iphone 4 blk16gb}
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{2010 Mac Pro-6 core 3.33-12gb 1333 ram-ati5870-velociraptor 600's-SL/win7/64-Konnekt Live/Onkyo-Dell3007wfp}
{2008 Mac Pro-8 core 3.2's-16GB-evga285} {MBP17}{ipad}{iphone 4 blk16gb}
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post #150 of 204
10/26/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I don't agree about a bigger iPhone with a bigger screen -- a larger edge-to-edge display (same aspect ratio) on the same size device would be OK though.

I'll disagree with the smaller phone. The HP Veer was quite capable, yet widely panned for it's small size. Very hard to use your big fingers on that very small screen. And for some reason, people aren't willing to pay the same price for a small phone that they will for a large phone - even if the both have equivalent functionality. Something about our culture I guess.

So we've negative opinions about both too-big and too-small. Perhaps the current iPhone hit the sweet spot.
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post #151 of 204
10/26/11 at 1:25pm
If anybody has anything to fear it is Android. Android manufacturers are undoubtedly keeping their options open. Right now they already pay Microsoft for Android patents as they would for licensing Windows Mobile. Moreover, unlike Android, Microsoft protects them from Patent suits.

With Oracle and Apple breathing down Android's neck, it is hard to see it being attractive long term. If I had to get a non-Apple phone, I would go Windows Mobile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHrubik View Post

iOS and Android have a lot to fear.
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post #152 of 204
10/26/11 at 1:34pm
Nice to see the nauseating F*book logo get lost in a sea of ugly blue.
Mango must be insanely advanced to support F*book, by the way.
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post #153 of 204
10/26/11 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Because a billion people will eventually upgrade to Windows 8. Windows is the world wide desktop standard. Users will come face-to-face with the new Metro interface. Eventually, they will become comfortable with it. Seeing that same interface on a phone may appeal to them. They'll realize they already know quite a bit about how to use it and what it's capable of.

How can you be so sure that a billion windows users will upgrade to Windows 8?

Why?

Will they have machines powerful enough to run Windows 8?

Aren't there still a lot of Windows XP installations -- if they aren't upgrading to Windows 7, why do you feel that they will upgrade to Windows 8?

Isn't one of the advertised features of Windows 8 on the desktop -- that you can disable the Metro interface if it "gets in the way"?

I am not so sure that an OS to be released a year from now (if on time), will have a dramatic influence on the tablets and smart phones sold for the next 2 years.

In addition, the ARM Windows 8 tablets will not be able to run any existing Windows desktop apps -- they will have to be rewritten to run on Windows 8 ARM and include a touch UI.

I think MS is hoping/depending that Intel will release a low-power x86 chip that is ARM competitive -- in the 2013-2014 time frame... iffy, at best!

If the above statements are factual, MS may not have enough time to penetrate the tablet market in any meaningful way.

To me. that means that, likely, Windows Phone 7, OS and handsets, will succeed, fail or be marginal -- on their own merit. Pretty much, what we see today, is what they'll have to offer for the next 18-24 months.

Where am I wrong?
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #154 of 204
10/26/11 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Linkgx1, meet the gutter. Gutter, meet linkgx1.

Hello gutter, how big is your hole? Have you gotten squirells through?
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post #155 of 204
10/26/11 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

If anybody has anything to fear it is Android. Android manufacturers are undoubtedly keeping their options open. Right now they already pay Microsoft for Android patents as they would for licensing Windows Mobile. Moreover, unlike Android, Microsoft protects them from Patent suits.

With Oracle and Apple breathing down Android's neck, it is hard to see it being attractive long term. If I had to get a non-Apple phone, I would go Windows Mobile.

Ya' know, that's a very good point!

The fact that Android is becoming less appealing as a platform on which the device manufacturers can make business decisions...

This could give Windows Phone 7 room to succeed in the smartphone space...

Couple that with the fact that MS has some negotiating power -- since more than half of the Android handset manufacturers are paying MS for licenses to use Android OS.

MS could pay major developers to port their apps to WP7 and flesh out a pretty big app portfolio within 6-12 months.

MS could "convince" smartphone manufacturers to redirect their primary efforts to produce WP7 devices instead of Android devices -- and indemnify them against any patent lawsuits.

Hmm...

In a response to an earlier post, I said that WP7 would, likely have to succeed, fail or be magrinal on its own merits.

I hadn't considered the diminution of Android...

Now, this sounds like the MS we've all grown to know and love/hate/fear!

Bill... Bill... Is that you Bill?

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #156 of 204
10/26/11 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

The N9 is a beautiful phone, really well made. The Lumia 800 looks like it's essentially the same design.

If I was not an iPhone user I would SERIOUSLY consider this handset.

Might not get Americans excited, but Nokia is still talked about fondly here in the UK & Europe, people want them to succeed.

i like the look of the 800. if it wasn't running MS software i would consider it....
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post #157 of 204
10/26/11 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Damn straight. The Lumia 800 is targeting the low/mid budget and the Lumia 710 is very much low budget.

If you look at German pricing for the Lumia's and iPhones...
  • Nokia Lumia 800 420 ($584 USD)
  • Nokia Lumia 710 270 ($375 USD)
  • iPhone 3GS 8GB 369 ($513 USD)
  • iPhone 4 8GB 519 ($722 USD)
  • iPhone 4S 16GB 629 ($874 USD)

The Lumia 800 is actually priced closer to an iPhone 8GB 3GS than it is to an iPhone 4 8GB and the Lumia 710 is in another budget price bracket all of its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's 420 which is $584. That's below, but in the range of the iPhone 4S, not the iPhone 3GS.

I was basing my comparison on the post by Firefly quoted above. I don't know the corresponding unsubsidized prices for the USA, those could be different.
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post #158 of 204
10/26/11 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

I was basing my comparison on the post by Firefly quoted above. I don't know the corresponding unsubsidized prices for the USA, those could be different.

Yeah, my value of the iPhone 4S doesn't include the taxes for the US market while I'm sure the Euro-based price does include the VAT.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #159 of 204
10/26/11 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How can you be so sure that a billion windows users will upgrade to Windows 8?

Why?

Will they have machines powerful enough to run Windows 8?

Aren't there still a lot of Windows XP installations -- if they aren't upgrading to Windows 7, why do you feel that they will upgrade to Windows 8?

Isn't one of the advertised features of Windows 8 on the desktop -- that you can disable the Metro interface if it "gets in the way"?

I am not so sure that an OS to be released a year from now (if on time), will have a dramatic influence on the tablets and smart phones sold for the next 2 years.

In addition, the ARM Windows 8 tablets will not be able to run any existing Windows desktop apps -- they will have to be rewritten to run on Windows 8 ARM and include a touch UI.

I think MS is hoping/depending that Intel will release a low-power x86 chip that is ARM competitive -- in the 2013-2014 time frame... iffy, at best!

If the above statements are factual, MS may not have enough time to penetrate the tablet market in any meaningful way.

To me. that means that, likely, Windows Phone 7, OS and handsets, will succeed, fail or be marginal -- on their own merit. Pretty much, what we see today, is what they'll have to offer for the next 18-24 months.

Where am I wrong?

You do make some good points.

I believe Microsoft has already stated that you won't be able to bypass the new Start screen. Not even for business use. Stay tuned to see if they back down. And yep, I agree that future Windows 8 tablets will probably not support legacy apps. Not sure if that matters to desktop users - who will still make up the majority of users. I believe they've also stated that the hardware requirements for Windows 8 will be less than for 7.
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post #160 of 204
10/26/11 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

So much in your post. Let me ramble for a bit...

All of the scenarios you describe are also great users of battery capacity. This is a mobile device with limited capabilities. Everything is a compromise to battery life.

Certainly games would be better satisfied with a separate GPU, rather than a multi-core CPU. Siri would probably work on an iPhone 4 just fine. Certainly the original app ran well on the single core iPhone 4. I think Apple is restricting it to the iPhone 4S as an incentive to upgrade and nothing else. Video teleconferencing? Really? I've not heard of anybody actually using Apple's FaceTime. A front-facing camera just seems like another checklist item rather than a real usable feature. As to the low-resolution screen, it's a resolution specified by Microsoft. I don't think it's particularly low-res. And having a single resolution size makes programming much easier. Android programmers have to contend with dozens of different screen sizes. What a pain. I like having the screen size controlled by Microsoft. Finally, your concerns about multitasking. First thing to note is that Microsoft will never allow complete, true multitasking - that is allowing background apps to do whatever they dang well please. There will always be a limited subset of functions allowed. And they will be prioritized. There's no way an incoming phone call would be dropped because the phone was too busy playing music in the background. The music app would simply be suspended.

Right, for the most I could agree, but dual core would ensure a responsive UI even without having to limit your use of the device. Just saying that the user doesn't need to use the apps doesn't cut it.

As to battery life, faster devices get their tasks completed in smaller amounts of time, and so they can leave the cpu/battery alone afterwards. That way, you always have the choice of increased productivity whenever you need it, and longer battery life at other times.
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