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Nokia launches first Windows Phones to take on Apple's iPhone 4S - Page 2

post #41 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I have not seen one in person, but I've HATED the appearance of the UI ever since I first saw it. It looks clunky and dated. I realize they are going for simplicity, but honestly...it's a bunch of random ass blue rectangles of different sized. Really?

I know that this is the Internet and making informed opinions is frowned upon but why don't you try one before bashing it?

Most non-techies who use WP7 prefer it to Android. The problem for Microsoft is that the WP7 devices so far have been lacklustre and haven't been marketed with any real conviction. There's also a huge gap in their app portfolio.
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post #42 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:23am
Ugh. I HATE the look of the 800.

The 710, though, looks nice aesthetically.
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post #43 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnb View Post

Everything has to be "versus Apple" to make it on this site

No, it just has to be of interest to Apple users. If it were titled "Versus Android" I would still read it. There are many an example of Appleinsider articles which are 'of interest to' Apple users rather than directly affecting or competing with them (or the products they use).
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post #44 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

to take on Apple's iPhone 4S

To take on Android, would be more appropriate. Android is eating your lunch Microsoft, not iPhone.

Damn straight. The Lumia 800 is targeting the low/mid budget and the Lumia 710 is very much low budget.

If you look at German pricing for the Lumia's and iPhones...
  • Nokia Lumia 800 420 ($584 USD)
  • Nokia Lumia 710 270 ($375 USD)
  • iPhone 3GS 8GB 369 ($513 USD)
  • iPhone 4 8GB 519 ($722 USD)
  • iPhone 4S 16GB 629 ($874 USD)

The Lumia 800 is actually priced closer to an iPhone 8GB 3GS than it is to an iPhone 4 8GB and the Lumia 710 is in another budget price bracket all of its own.

These phones are definitely built to compete with the crappier BoGo or "free" (on contract) Android devices.

Nokia didn't actually announce anything to compete directly in the "top of the market" range. There were substantial rumors of another device (the Lumia 900 "Ace") with a 4.3" screen and bumped up specs but nothing was confirmed.

It's going to be interesting to see where Nokia position Windows Phone.
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post #45 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:28am
Ok I will buy that, however I have a question. How many times has MS got it correct o the first try ?
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post #46 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The case? Do you really not see it?



There is nothing to sue for apple.These are no iPhone clones!
With this machines they do NOT steal design or IP from Apple!

Microsoft and Nokia are going the right way!
They try to be a fair competitor in this market.
Respect for that!

enough said!
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post #47 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHrubik View Post

What's obvious is you don't know your ass from a hole in the wall.

Microsoft was slow out of the gate watching and waiting like a predator. They "were" the only game in the smartphone market for years. Then iOS happened which took the smartphone market in a completely new direction. A direction Microsoft wasn't prepared for. 5 years later they have deployed Windows Phone 7.5 Mango (a great but young mobile OS)and have essentially purchased a phone manufacturer (Nokia). Over the next 12 months we're going to see a "sleeping giant" enter the mobile phone arena.

iOS and Android have a lot to fear.

No, please remove your head from your posterior. There is nothing to like about this OS as proven by its abject failure in the marketplace. Also, Windows was never the only smartphone game as you seem to think. NEVER! There was symbian and other proprietary OS's such as Palm and BB at the same time. In fact, MSFT's past efforts were the antithesis of "smart". The reality is that MOST people don't really like MSFT products but have been forced to use them, and now they are irrelevant in the mobile space as there are far superior choices out there. People are tired of being screwed by this company with buggy, bloated over-priced software and are very happy to have other options.
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post #48 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by htoelle View Post

Ok I will buy that, however I have a question. How many times has MS got it correct o the first try ?

Are you talking about the operating system or the phone?

The phones are first try... the OS is already second gen.
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post #49 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I know that this is the Internet and making informed opinions is frowned upon but why don't you try one before bashing it?

Most non-techies who use WP7 prefer it to Android. The problem for Microsoft is that the WP7 devices so far have been lacklustre and haven't been marketed with any real conviction. There's also a huge gap in their app portfolio.

LOL - "Most non-techies who use WP7 prefer it to Android." - what, all 12 of them? And they work for MSFT?
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post #50 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

I still do not understand how the Nokia cloner Windows Phone is different from any of the other cloner Windows Phones. Same fugly, unusable OS with text scrolling off to the right all over the place. Same crappy Zune services. Locked to the proprietary Microsoft Windows platform. Locked to the crappy BING services.

How is the Nokia cloner Windows Phone going to all of a sudden get people to look past all the failings of Windows Phone and start buying? Makes no sense. People already rejected Windows Phone from all the other cloners.

I think this is spot on. This is the "other shoe" that is waiting to drop in regards Windows Phone hardware.

Microsoft bought Nokia because Nokia had the reputation for hardware. They were considered one of the best and everyone has been waiting for these Nokia phones.

The fact is though, that Nokia was king of hardware when hardware was all that counted and most phones were crappy flip phones. Hardware still matters, but software and eco-system matters much much more. Nowadays we have dozens of Android smart phones with absolutely excellent hardware and specs as well as a variety of tablets.

Once these Nokia phones start coming out and getting reviewed, and everyone realises that the hardware is no great shakes or at least no better nor worse than anything else, the differentiator (and most of Nokia's brand value) will just evaporate. Nokia is really just another phone manufacturer and the Windows Phone platform will live or die by what Microsoft does, not Nokia.

Nokia (at least in terms of the company that it was) is already dead. They could go away tomorrow and nothing would change about the phone market.
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post #51 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

No, please remove your head from your posterior. There is nothing to like about this OS as proven by its abject failure in the marketplace. Also, Windows was never the only smartphone game as you seem to think. NEVER! There was symbian and other proprietary OS's such as Palm and BB at the same time. In fact, MSFT's past efforts were the antithesis of "smart". The reality is that MOST people don't really like MSFT products but have been forced to use them, and now they are irrelevant in the mobile space as there are far superior choices out there. People are tired of being screwed by this company with buggy, bloated over-priced software and are very happy to have other options.

We'll see. Keep this bookmarked for 12 months.

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post #52 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIZZARD View Post

Six months?? I think it's quite obvious right now that it's a total fackin' failure.

Never count out MS...they are known for their third iteration being a hit -- windows 3.1 for example...

Windows CE on checkbook size PCs that connected to external modems in the mid 90s was attempt 1,

Windows Pocket PC/Mobile on palm like devices and phones like the Palm Treo was take 2,

Win Phone is try three. the one where they get it right usually...and they have xbox and Zune, which gives them a leg up in gaming, and subscribtion music on every phone, apple cant do the latter,
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post #53 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's not going to take Apple six months to sue the pants off of Nokia for this design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippigo View Post

Well, don't these phones look ugly!

I would think that they instruct trolls to not contradict each other in troll school, but what do I know...

Anyway, I don't see how these phones are going to justify the move to Windows Phone; If I'd buy anything from Nokia now, it would only be the N9...
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post #54 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:40am
Brandname "Lumia"...? "NoWin" would be more appropriate....
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post #55 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by htoelle View Post

Ok I will buy that, however I have a question. How many times has MS got it correct o the first try?

I'm going to say never.

It's interesting that you mention that though as Microsoft's first smartphone was released over a decade ago.

It was very open (as in open to customize, not source). Microsoft allowed almost total customization and had little control over the hardware.

This openness didn't start off so bad, but over time the number of different phones and capabilities led to a totally fragmented platform. It became increasingly difficult to write software to target all possible devices and software versions.

Some OEM's even started to "add value" by totally replacing the UI with their own.

After almost a decade of this OS being on the market it reached a breaking point. Microsoft basically had to throw the old OS out and start with a clean slate.

So forget about the "7" in the version number, Windows Phone is Microsoft's second attempt at smartphones.
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post #56 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

... Most non-techies who use WP7 prefer it to Android. The problem for Microsoft is that the WP7 devices so far have been lacklustre and haven't been marketed with any real conviction. ....

I don't think this is true at all and it seems to me that you are just making it up given the figures on OS adoption that we are all aware of. You talk of proper debate but then throw out a completely unsupported statement like that?

Personally, I find Windows Phone a very confusing interface although I only have limited experience with actually using it. The only friend of mine that actually has one however, is exactly the "non-techie" you speak of.

She is a mid-level manager at a local corporation and got one as a gift so she is trying to use it as her main phone. She finds it absolutely impenetrable and has no idea how to work it at all. She hasn't figured out how to use it even after two weeks of having it, with the exception of the camera and the phone part. Every time she phones someone, it adds a giant red tile to the home screen with that person's phone number and name on it and after two weeks of use, the home screen scrolled for yards and yards with all these name-tiles. She uses it by endlessly scrolling up and down this long list of tiles on the main screen and touching one to make a call. That's all she knows.

Now that's a true "Windows Phone 7 Ultimate Edition" story.
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post #57 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

I think the picture of the 800 looks really cool. That looks like something Apple would build.

Like and iPod Nano phone? I can see that with the color and aluminium casing but I think it's an original design is more than enough ways to keep people from thinking it's an Apple product.

I like it and wish MS and Nokia well. I wonder if their app store is big enough to be viable at this point. For their sake, I hope so.
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post #58 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

To take on Android, would be more appropriate.
Android is eating your lunch Microsoft, not iPhone.

Microsoft don't want to compete with Android, do you realise just how much money Android makes for Microsoft in licensing. Fooking miiiiiiilions.
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post #59 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

So it begins. We will all know in 6 months whether MIcrosoft Mobile is a contender or epic fail

Microsoft does not get another shot after this...it's the last bullet in the gun

Oh yeah? That's what they also said about the Zune and... oh wait
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post #60 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The case? Do you really not see it?

The case doesn't look anything like an iPhone/iPod/iPod Touch. Why would they sue?
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post #61 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by daratbastid View Post

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphon...7/default.aspx

Ugliest UI ever :roll eyes: Though its minimalistic and clean there is no sense of symmetry and "lacks taste" These guys can't find a good designer to copy Apple after all these years with all their $ ???

I agree that the Start screen is pretty ugly. Those big monochrome tiles don't do much for me. But everything else is pretty interesting. I'm especially interested in the hubs - people, music, etc. The biggest problem with Windows Phone for me is that it tries to be too people centric. I'm not a social animal. I don't use FaceBook or Twitter. So the social integration aspects are lost on me.
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post #62 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

She is a mid-level manager at a local corporation and got one as a gift so she is trying to use it as her main phone. She finds it absolutely impenetrable and has no idea how to work it at all. She hasn't figured out how to use it even after two weeks of having it, with the exception of the camera and the phone part.

It sounds like she is a perfect customer for iOS. You should talk her into getting an iPhone.
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post #63 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

Ugh. I HATE the look of the 800.

The 710, though, looks nice aesthetically.

Hmm. I think just the opposite. I guess that's why they sell different models.
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post #64 of 205
10/26/11 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I don't think this is true at all and it seems to me that you are just making it up given the figures on OS adoption that we are all aware of. You talk of proper debate but then throw out a completely unsupported statement like that?

I work in the mobile industry and I've got a WP7 device in my collection. I've shown it to a lot of people and most of the non-techies are impressed. They especially like how their friends and photos automatically turn up on the live tiles. They like the polish and smoothness of the UI compared to Android.

Techies, on the other hand, hate it. Mostly for the reasons that people gave given in this thread.

How does your friend find Android? Better or worse?
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post #65 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:00am
Specs are interesting on the Lumia 800.
http://www.nokia.co.uk/gb-en/product...pecifications/ For example, they use a 1.4GHz CPU that is only dual core. Does that mean it's the older Cortex-A8 or a single-core A9. Does it really have to be 1.4GHz to be usable? And the display is AMEOLD. Not Super, not plus(+). That makes it an inferior option in many ways.
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post #66 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:02am
Nokia will be a good competitor for Apple. They will come out with different phone forms, such as a slider or flip phone. Some people just want a physical keyboard. And the Europeans buy from the Europeans, so this will help Nokia. Competition is good, and keeps Apple innovating. RIM is the big loser here.
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post #67 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Hmm. I think just the opposite. I guess that's why they sell different models.

I agree the 800/N9 is much better more unique looking phone. I would buy one if they sold them here in the U.S. I'll probably end up with a GSM 4S this time around. My rooted EVO 4G is holding up nicely (minus the digitizer replacement) though and I was really wanting the rumored iPhone5 which coincidentally the N9/800 really resembles.

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post #68 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHrubik View Post

What's obvious is you don't know your ass from a hole in the wall.

Microsoft was slow out of the gate watching and waiting like a predator. They "were" the only game in the smartphone market for years. Then iOS happened which took the smartphone market in a completely new direction. A direction Microsoft wasn't prepared for. 5 years later they have deployed Windows Phone 7.5 Mango (a great but young mobile OS)and have essentially purchased a phone manufacturer (Nokia). Over the next 12 months we're going to see a "sleeping giant" enter the mobile phone arena.

iOS and Android have a lot to fear.

When exactly were Microsoft 'in' the smartphone game? I must have slept for that decade. Seriously, I had two handsets in the last ten years with some kind of Microsoft OS and without exception they were both donkeys. I went back to S40/S60. That being said, I couldn't get on with Symbian Anna, at least not as implemented on the Nokia E6. I've never really tried Android, but I now have two iPhones on my desk as I can use them without having to think - not the case with any other smartphone I've ever used.

Definitely Microsoft is and will continue to be an also-ran, or even a 'had to be shot because they broke a leg'.
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post #69 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Specs are interesting on the Lumia 800.

•

http://www.nokia.co.uk/gb-en/product...pecifications/ For example, they use a 1.4GHz CPU that is only dual core. Does that mean it's the older Cortex-A8 or a single-core A9. Does it really have to be 1.4GHz to be usable? And the display is AMEOLD. Not Super, not plus(+). That makes it an inferior option in many ways.

If you look up the specs not only is WP7.5 usable with a single core processor it requires less horse power to operate than iOS5 or Android3/4. Another report for the N9 at least says that while Nokia's AMOLED display is not labeled "super" or "+" it actually is of that generation and quality.

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post #70 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:13am
...is to bring these into the market top and bottom. To reclaim marketshare from the Android erosion, bring a series of semi-smart phones in below Android phones. This will accelerate the conversion of feature phones out from under Android and effectively accelerate handset makers into an untenable rush to hit bottom on their phones where profitability on Android phones is already not good. Microsoft has the resources to make this directly impact Android marketshare creation. Microsoft has demonstrated willingness to operate at a loss for an extended period of time ni order to build share.

At the top, if Microsoft positions the premium handsets correctly, again Android is the most vulnerable, followed by RIM. Android because there is not the essentially customer stickiness for the Android platform that Apple enjoys. More importantly, if they capture enough mindshare against Android, they could stall it - effectively hitting Android on two fronts. They could bleed off some Apple loyalists by demonstrating some key integration with other Microsoft products, but it would have to be fairly impressive.

Remember, Microsoft was the primary casualty of the Android platform. Ballmer and company will not forget that.
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post #71 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:14am
i'm sticking with iOS, but the Nexus S and most of the HTC phones are all great devices. i'm worried that the new handset once-every-year [or every 15 months] is going to kill Apple's marketshare. now with Nokia on the WinMo team, they will have 2 new phones every month.

i'd like to see apple push out a super thin, 3" screen phone and a 4.8" mega-feature phone. [iPhone Air and iPhone pro?], in addition to the current form factor, and update those devices semi-annually - even if the updates are just small spec bumps - SOMETHING to keep the product fresh.
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post #72 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:14am
Phone naming alone kinda screams it's game over, but it'd like to see Nokia and Microsoft eat into Android sales as much as possible.
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post #73 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Hmm. I think just the opposite. I guess that's why they sell different models.

Yeah, after I posted I noticed that I'm definitely in the minority. I don't know what it is about it that doesn't stick with me, but it's definitely something.
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post #74 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Microsoft don't want to compete with Android, do you realise just how much money Android makes for Microsoft in licensing. Fooking miiiiiiilions.

Nonsense. It's far more profitable to own the 'poor/stupid man's' market than to license technologies to it. They will licence AND compete.
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post #75 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:19am
Sweet!
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post #76 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

... And the display is AMEOLD. Not Super, not plus(+). That makes it an inferior option in many ways.

Inferior to what? For the price range this phone is competing in (~iP 3GS), it is quite decent.

But I agree, specs-wise this phone is a dog. And apparently the OS doesn't help either -- no dual-core support in Q4 2011 - wtf?
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post #77 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

i'm sticking with iOS, but the Nexus S and most of the HTC phones are all great devices. i'm worried that the new handset once-every-year [or every 15 months] is going to kill Apple's marketshare. now with Nokia on the WinMo team, they will have 2 new phones every month.

i'd like to see apple push out a super thin, 3" screen phone and a 4.8" mega-feature phone. [iPhone Air and iPhone pro?], in addition to the current form factor, and update those devices semi-annually - even if the updates are just small spec bumps - SOMETHING to keep the product fresh.

... and we will call it the iPhone Performa line... a phone for every personality.

I'd put a "never" on this... but I can see a 4" iPhone Whatever with the 4 and 4S filling in the rest of the gaps.

Apple makes the ecosystem and OS fresh... confusing the clientele with too many multiple size phones aint in its game.
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post #78 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

So it begins. We will all know in 6 months whether MIcrosoft Mobile is a contender or epic fail

It all depends on Nokia brand strength. Maybe in Europe and Asia, Nokia still has a strong brand and they could push out 10m WP7 phones a quarter by the sheer force of their brand and manufacturing power.

Quote:
Microsoft does not get another shot after this...it's the last bullet in the gun

No way it's the last bullet. They still have Windows 8/9 which can be put in phones in 2013/2014. Everything about MS boils down to Windows and Office. That's the center of MS' universe. I think they will put Windows 8 or its successor on phones, including a version of Office. Not the crap WM Office. Actual MS Office, only with the UI dumbed down for the smaller screen.
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post #79 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:43am
The 800 will survive. The 710 will disappear by the weekend.
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post #80 of 205
10/26/11 at 8:43am
I have not had the chance to play with w WinPhone yet. However I think after looking at the screens besides the clunky start screen it might be kind of neat.

I honestly hope that this does end up being a good phone. If Microsoft creates an excellent mobile to home environment interface like Apple has, we might actually have a real competitor to keep things interesting instead of just Droids empty flash with a few basic good ideas.The only reason droid has made it's mark is the number of phones that have been churned out and rushed, only maybe a hand full of these are worth note the rest are worthy of being the free phones you get when you open up a new account with a service provider.

With the windows phone that certainly looks like it's it's own best and not a clone, and with Nokia who did design some good phones back in the day. We might see real creativity enter back into the market instead of just improving what is already there, or just Apple creating and Droid cloning.

I say I welcome smart competition. lets hope this keeps things interesting.
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