Nokia launches first Windows Phones to take on Apple's iPhone 4S - Page 3

So you've not seen the iPod nano available for a little over a year?

This thing's a cross between the 6th gen and the 2nd gen.

I read somewhere they aren't going to be bringing multi-core in until Q4 2012.

Here is a question though... do you think they actually need dual cores? The OS runs on current gen hardware, so it doesn't need multi-core. There is no screen-mirroring like iOS and no "true multi-tasking" like Android.

Maybe for gaming?

If it cost more I would agree, but it's approaching feature-phone pricing.

What other $375 phone would you buy instead of the 710?

Apple makes the macbook pro in 3 sizes and the macbook air in two sizes, and has just recently discontinued the macbook plastic. not to mention the iPod: Touch, Nano, Shuffle, and Classic.

Apple is a great company that makes what sells, and there is definitely a market for huge 4.5"+ screen phones as well as super small phones.

Why? What will be the points of contention?

iTommy don't let Tallest Skil get you going....he is trolling with no specifics...just blanket general statements. Then if you disagree......he turns the tables around on the person questioning his nonsense statement.

I recently played with my friend's phone with Windows Mobile Mango installed, and it was surprisingly very very good! I've had all iterations of the iPhone, and really do not like the jerky and being lost feel of Android phones, but this Windows Mobile Mango OS has got what it takes to make a lot of people believers.

I mean, it needs to get its App store shored up, but other than that, it is very responsive, very fluid, has some great ideas for the main screen where you can pin ANY item to it. As well, your contacts has all sources integrated with them (i.e. Phone number, email, facebook, linkedin, photostreams, etc, etc).

The items you pin on the main screen are active, for example, the weather widget shows current weather, your photostream updates or goes through different pictures, time ticks by, contacts will show updated info whether it is from text messages, emails, facebook updates, etc.

But overall, the feeling is smooth as butter, fresh, and new.

I really hope Apple starts looking at this phone before continuing iOS6 development.

My take on raw power is the following: Let's assume that your OS is very resource-efficient and doesn't need the extra power. Let's also assume that the interface is responsive enough. None of this will matter however, when we consider specific usage scenarios or use of third party applications. Games, as you point out, is one thing that will get affected. Multitasking is another. Heavier applications such as constant-on video messengers as Skype, or personal assistant software like Siri, will also not fly on weaker processors.

When you compare devices, you will want to consider running comparable applications on them, all the while maintaining your habits. Soon you will realize that no matter how efficient the OS is, a low-resolution screen will never give you good readability, lack of a front facing camera will make video telephony impossible, or lack of efficient multitasking will make your phone unresponsive when an incoming call coincides with an auto-scheduled app update while you're also playing an arcade game.

Yes, as anyone I also prefer the OS to be lightweight and not get in the way, but that does not relieve from the expectations for powerful hardware, because I know I am going to use it all anyway with third-party applications.

I "really" want a phone whose name means prostitute in Spanish!!!

... and right now we have three phones... 3GS, 4 and 4S. Now add to that mix another 3 phones which is what you are suggesting. Even if the 3GS was removed you are still talking 5 phones. Not Apple's style.

Add to that the outlook from the developer's view... working with different resolutions in iOS is a totally different thing than having 3 different sized notebooks.

... and, in my opinion, the market for a huge 4.5" iPhone is very limited. Around 4" will work perfectly to fill the need for a larger screen.

Now... back to regular programming.

Where have I seen this post before..oh yeah, before every single product Microsoft (or anyone else non-Apple for that matter) has released over the past 10 years. Absolutely hilarious. Yes, things can change and noone knows what the future holds. But these 'sleeping giant' posts are idiotic, especially after all these years. I can't see these being threats to iPhones in any way, shape, or form. What, the Nokia hardware is going to turn the tide? Nokia doesn't have a shadow of the brand power it once did. And Win 7 phones have been a market failure so far. I don't see whats changed.

Ballmer has stopped laughing?

Because WP is not a rip off of iOS. About the only thing it has similar to an iPhone is a touch screen. As long as they don't use the same UI, pinch-to-zoom, slide-to-unlock, or other elements that have Apple patents, there isn't anything for Apple to sue them over.

Sure Windows Phone is another "me too" product because they're unable to dream up new concepts on their own, but for what might be the 1st time in their history, they've designed their own UI instead of ripping off someone else's.

Is "dual-core" simply a check-box on your shopping list? Or do you believe there's some function that can't be performed properly on a single core system? Note that I'm not trying to pick a fight. I've just heard a bunch of folks hankering for a dual-core CPU, but without stating why they think it's necessary. I do honestly want to know.

I agree...I have played around with a couple Win 7 phones. They are nice and the OS is actually not bad. BUT it does not come close to IOS or Android. For MS and Nokia to turn the mobile space on its ear and change the current market order they would have to release something very new and combine hardware and software that would capture the publics attention. I just don't see this happening....it could...but not probable.

What's the point of putting desktop OS / app suite on mobile phone ? MS already tried this, with Windows Mobile 5-6, and proved this is non option. Their developer base is of little use there, as they are used to develop desktop software. Mobile software is not dumbed down version of desktop software. What you want to do with MS Office on mobile phone to make it that important ? If you want to overview document and make a simple edit, you can already do it now. You won't be creating your next Office document on 2013 mobile phone.

Again, putting your post into context for those who've just tuned in, this is a comment from a guy who refuses to believe that anyone on the planet could own an iPhone without having paid a telecom to get one.

And that's why he's all whiny and defensive around me.


I said absolutely nothing about the software. It would be a hardware lawsuit.


Never said they were. Never implied they were. Don't make crap up.


+ =


Microsoft is. Absolutely.


And Microsoft is doing a VERY good job of it; you're absolutely right.

So much in your post. Let me ramble for a bit...

All of the scenarios you describe are also great users of battery capacity. This is a mobile device with limited capabilities. Everything is a compromise to battery life.

Certainly games would be better satisfied with a separate GPU, rather than a multi-core CPU. Siri would probably work on an iPhone 4 just fine. Certainly the original app ran well on the single core iPhone 4. I think Apple is restricting it to the iPhone 4S as an incentive to upgrade and nothing else. Video teleconferencing? Really? I've not heard of anybody actually using Apple's FaceTime. A front-facing camera just seems like another checklist item rather than a real usable feature. As to the low-resolution screen, it's a resolution specified by Microsoft. I don't think it's particularly low-res. And having a single resolution size makes programming much easier. Android programmers have to contend with dozens of different screen sizes. What a pain. I like having the screen size controlled by Microsoft. Finally, your concerns about multitasking. First thing to note is that Microsoft will never allow complete, true multitasking - that is allowing background apps to do whatever they dang well please. There will always be a limited subset of functions allowed. And they will be prioritized. There's no way an incoming phone call would be dropped because the phone was too busy playing music in the background. The music app would simply be suspended.

They're nice looking phones, but they're not going to be a match for the iPhones (3GS, 4, 4S), (or Android) because at this point Windows Phone is a new platform, hasn't sold well at all and doesn't have an ecosystem grown around them - MS will pour billions and billions at it and eventually like they did with the Xbox and 360 they'll eventually buy their way in to an extent but it'll take alot of time and money.

Amazing the higher end 800 doesn't have a forward facing camera, kind of blows the mind considering the target audience, its the younger, hipper audience that uses it (and the N9 has one).

No announcements for US deliveries, which is really weird - they purposely kept the N9 out of the US so they could immediately sell their new Windows phones supposedly - but that isn't happening.

In the end Nokia is just a WP OEM (misguided strategy in my opinion) where their main competition is actually the other WP vendors HTC, Motorola and Samsung and that is not a good margin future.

It's 420 which is $584. That's below, but in the range of the iPhone 4S, not the iPhone 3GS.

Could you please elaborate on "BUT it does not come close to iOS or Android"?

Sure....to be more specific...IMHO it does not come close to IOS or Android. I was stating a personal preference. I like Win 7 OS....it feels smooth and the layout and user function mappings make sense. I like it.... but for me it comes in 3rd behind IOS and Android. I think it need to mature a little more but it is definatley headed in the right direction.

I think by "ecosystem" you simply mean mindset. Certainly Microsoft has built a pretty nice ecosystem around the phone. Tens of thousands of apps in their marketplace. Millions of songs in their music library - plus the Zune subscription model if desired. It sounds as if Nokia is introducing some SkyDrive integration.

I think if the phone doesn't sell, it won't be on it's technical merits - or lack thereof. It will be because it's not an iPhone (or Android phone). It's one less thing for consumers to think about.

I think this is probably because Microsoft doesn't yet support one with its OS. Nokia could supply a front-facing camera, but then they would catch flack because it was unusable. Now as to why Microsoft didn't think it was important enough to support yet, well... I guess they have limited resources. They just haven't gotten to it yet.

You've not actually listed any functional differences. So you're basically stating that you don't care for the look and feel of the phone? It certainly is different.

How would you expect the phone to "mature"? What should change?

I think that most consumers will buy whatever they are sold (as long as the product isn't a total piece of shit)... give a sales person enough spiffs and they'll sell the crap out of anything.

The question is... will the product be good enough for the customer to return to it. Brand loyalty.

When I was playing around with the UI the functional mappings did not make sense to me. The grouping of the cards did not allow me to navigate smoothly. But i was not experinced with it all all so it was somewhat new. As far as maturing...as a product is released it goes through public revisions where enhancements are made over time as the public gives the vendors requirements and likes to haves. More bells and whistles and functionality is added over time. Just like in IOS now has OTA updates....it is maturing.

Most of people I know with windows 7 phones actually like windows 7 mobile VERY much... much more then they like Android and even some like it more then iOS. The only problem they have is the lack of quality HW phone for windows mobile... if this Nokia HW is very good as it supposed to be then this phone will be pretty solid! At list better then most of androids... the lack of good SW available for windows mobile can be a problem though....

Does this mean all the Android fan boiz will go over to Windows forums and post nonsense about Windows mobile now, instead of trolling here every day?

I suspect Windows mobile will grab some market share and remaining around for a while because Microsoft has strong ties with corporate IT, and they receive a $5 subsidy on every Android phone sold.

Whatever the outcome, expect a big uptick in "anal-systs" making predictions about smartphone market share and units shipped vs units sold. And they will all be wrong.

Personally, I am waiting on the Amazon Kindle phone.

I agree. The marketplace already has people focused on iPhone and Android and phone version of the Zune will be tough (and appears to be what's happened so far, just lost in the noise).

You sure Apple wants to sue Nokia AND Microsoft?

I personally think WP7 trumps iOS and Android on the visual side (I like that minimalist ish) but from a functionality standpoint the OS feels very boring and cold and static (despite the moving 'parts')

I get bored with WP7 even faster than I get bored with iOS app launcher homescreen.

They would only do it if they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that they would win. Anything else would be too dangerous.

It's certainly a long shot, but there's no denying the heavy influences here.


Vendettas are disgusting and destructive. Mind explaining why you think quoting that is a good idea?

The marketplace is whatever is sold to the public... marketing is king... advertising, advertising, advertising and plenty of spiffs. Unless, of course, Microsoft doesn't have enough $$$ to advertise Mango properly...

[the mobile phone racket is quite different from the music player racket]

I can quote whom ever i want to quote....remembering history and context are always constructive. No vendetta....I will let the facts speak for themselves

The fact is that we'll never be forcibly limited to LTE (or wireless in general) for Internet and we'll never only have services capped at 2GB (or capped at any size).

So that quote's pointless.

OK, so what if the W7phone is as good as a similarly priced Android or iOS phone. To sell it has to be prefered for some reason. To get something like all the apps and music in iTunes is to trival thing and then they still only have parity.

MS will make them merge better with Office 365 and perhaps also subsidise the price and aim for the corporate market. But they can not lock the other out. The time when some websites only worked with explorer and MS "enhanced" java so it only worked in Windows is gone

OK, you've defined "maturing". Now what features do you feel are lacking? What in particular needs maturation? You wouldn't buy one today because you think it needs to mature. Well, what needs to mature? Is it simply a usability issue? The interface is different enough from iOS and Android that you weren't sure how to use it? Would time be enough? Or do you think the UI needs to become more iOS like?

Why give free publicity to a product that would most likely not make any impact in the market?

So what makes good hardware? Did your friends' phones fail in some way? Or are we talking about a subjective feel of the hardware? Does it need to feel better in your hand?