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Nokia Windows Phone 7 Lumia 800 vs Apple iPhone 4S - Page 2

post #41 of 87
2008 wants this excuse back. Along with user replaceable battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGroucho View Post

as it lacks a physical keyboard...
post #42 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

According to David Pogue of the NYTimes WP7 has a 30k deep app store. MS also has plenty of ecosystem for WP7. It's not as good as iOS, but it's surely better than Android.

What exactly was FAILED for?

30k app store, how many millions WP7 was sold in the last year? Because over 4 million iPhone 4S was sold in less than one week of its release. Get off your high horse and see the failure that windows phone is. Stop trying to coddle Microsoft/Nokia.
post #43 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Beige View Post

iPhone has raised the bar so high even this MS/Nokia partnership - with the mission of beating iPhone - has flopped on it's first try..



If you're going to take on iPhone then you need to be waaaay out of the box, else you'll fail.

that sounds like the people claiming hte iphone would fail before it was even on the market
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post #44 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Another DED review of a product he's never used.

Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?

Aw come on. He's playing by their rules! You think in actual usage, something is going to stack up better vs an Apple product than on a stat sheet??

This is the most favorable (to Nokia) comparison you'll see between the two.
post #45 of 87
This seems like comparing a Toyota Corolla to an AMG with the AMG costing $5K more than the Toyota.
post #46 of 87
The table forgets to list the unlocked/sim-free/payg price of the 4S,
post #47 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Another DED review of a product he's never used.

Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?

What can you review it on then? Cloner Windows Phone devices have been out for over a year, and Microsoft will not release sales numbers because they are that bad.

The OS is total garbage. The UI is horrible. The lock in to the proprietary Windows OS is terrible. The lock in to the equally bad BING/MSN/Live/Hotmail/whatever Microsoft is calling their failed online services this week is terrible. Why doesn't Microsoft allow people to change from the terrible BING search engine? I think we all the answer to that...everyone would use Google as it is so much better.

What else could he review?
post #48 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

What else could he review?

I'd suggest a review based on real world usage. That's what the big technology blogs like Engadget are doing. Maybe the Lumia 800 will turn out to be a worthless pile of garbage but this comparison tells us nothing.

I'm sure Nokia would lend DED a device if he asked for one.
post #49 of 87
What a big miss by Nokia and Microsoft. I can't believe this is "the effort", and its not even coming to the US until Q2. The crescendo of the iPhone 5 launch is going to completely swamp any launch effort here. The specs on the 800 are already a generation old

A big big miss. I don't see how Microsoft is going to gain share in 2012

Embarrassing

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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post #50 of 87
the Lumia vs iPhone comparison chart needs correction :

in "Models" :

it should be "16, 32 or 64GB" rather than "16, 32 or 64MB" ...

Thank you for the attention... =)
post #51 of 87
I think it looks like a good phone and in the UK works out around £130 less than ab iPhone 4s, just a shame its not on o2.

Biggest problem Microsoft have is although there thinking of original ideas, there just going to be copied before the public realise it was them that came up with it. E.g. Camera button now on the iPhone, people hub now on android.

Potentially though this could be a turning point. Last year Microsoft did next to no advertising for wp7 and the generic phone shops haven't sold them until a couple of months ago. Now Nokia is actually doing some decent ads and more shops sell the phones. Admittedly you still don't see more than 2 models in any shop compared to 30 android devices, but its a start.
post #52 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

This seems like comparing a Toyota Corolla to an AMG with the AMG costing $5K more than the Toyota.

Except that the iPhone 4 is the same price and the iPhone 4S is only $100 more, and both carry better subsidies, making them effectively cheaper.

So really, it's like comparing a BMW to the Daewoo that is aping it, but at about the same price.
post #53 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

The OS is total garbage. The UI is horrible. The lock in to the proprietary Windows OS is terrible. The lock in to the equally bad BING/MSN/Live/Hotmail/whatever Microsoft is calling their failed online services this week is terrible. Why doesn't Microsoft allow people to change from the terrible BING search engine? I think we all the answer to that...everyone would use Google as it is so much better.

What else could he review?

If you're going to call something garbage, you should at least quantify your opinions with why. How's this different from your lock-in and proprietaryness with Apple? You're free to link any emails to the phone's Inbox. Maybe, just maybe, they chose not to offer Google probably because MS can better integrate Bing with their own phone OS? You've Bing search, Bing Map, Bing Voice, Bing Audio, Bing Vision, etc... all integrated into the core OS. People complain when MS creates an integrated system with using their own technologies, and then complain that MS isn't integrated as Apple when they don't have such feature. Apple doesn't have a search business. It's in their best interest to use whatever options available (i.e. Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc...), and it was really ONLY introduced with iOS 4.
post #54 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post

Apple doesn't have a search business. It's in their best interest to use whatever options available (i.e. Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc...), and it was really ONLY introduced with iOS 4.

Wrong. It's in Apples best interest to allow users to _choose_ what services they want to use rather than force people to only use their service. This is yet another reason Windows Phone is a total failure. No one in their right mind would want to be forced to use BING and all the google clone BING services.

Why is Microsoft against choice?
post #55 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

Wrong. It's in Apples best interest to allow users to _choose_ what services they want to use rather than force people to only use their service. This is yet another reason Windows Phone is a total failure. No one in their right mind would want to be forced to use BING and all the google clone BING services.

Why is Microsoft against choice?

The only thing you cannot (currently) change is Bing default searching in the browser. It doesn't prohibit you from using www.google.com or download Google Search. Most of Apple's services are provided by third-party apps whereas most things in Windows Phone are integrated into the OS. If you don't want the integrated feature, then you can download an app to replace it. With iOS, you HAVE to download Shazam if you want to know what song is playing.

Google wrote all the apps for iOS. There's nothing to stop Google from writing apps for Windows Phone 7 OS. How long did it take Apple to approve Google Voice and Google Latitude? It was in the interest of their customers, right? They were rejected until pressure from FCC and the public forced Apple to approve.

MS is against choice just because you can't change the default browser search engine? Was Apple against choice too when it took them 4 years to add Bing as an option? And I also like a choice of running Flash too on my iPhone, but that's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. Yes, Apple is full of choices.
post #56 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Another DED review of a product he's never used.

Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?

Well aren't you the genius. The fact of the matter is that WP7 has been a huge failure and DED is simply pointing out that with WP7 married with the hardware specs of the new Nokia devices nothing is going to change as they just aren't competitive. He wasn't just calling out hardware specs but the whole system. What is it that you don't get? It seems pretty clear to everyone else...
post #57 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

actually, the UI has received nothing but praise from the community of tech bloggers.

Duh! That may be but WP has been a resounding failure for those that matter - consumers! Quite frankly, it is fashion based, not particularly appealing compared to the other players. In fact it looks like it was designed by someone with attention deficit disorder.
post #58 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

probably not. consider the brand and the market.
Nokia owns the market share globally. the fact they partnered with Microsoft has already been deemed a huge success for both companies.

What nonsense. The marriage has been deemed no such thing as "a huge success" as it hasn't worked yet. Further, in the interim, because of the timing and the way they announced it, it severely hurt their existing business as people quit buying their immediately obsolete symbian phones. Also, try to get your facts right. Nokia does not "own" the smartphone market globally. The only success they have had recently, to keep their market share from totally collapsing, is in low end feature phones in the rest of the world. They have dramatically lost the high end of the market.
post #59 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Another DED review of a product he's never used.

Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?

First constructive post in this tread.

Strange how almost every post about non-Apple product starts with same-as-the-last-one parade of trolling, before people who actually have something to say chime in. I'm not saying everyone before your post trolled, but many did. Sad, really.

I feel very positive about Nokia 800. Have tried and liked WP7, and Zune Desktop is also much more to my liking than iTunes. In addition, devices looks nice - well built and different from other phones. Integration with 25GB of free SkyDrive is also nice, and I think it is only the beginning; after all, MS is software company, so doing cool things in software should be their thing... otherwise, otherwise, if they cannot bring the fight to other platforms on the software level, they are doomed - and for real. But from what I have seen this far, I am expecting to see integration between Windows phones, tablets, desktops and server products to catch up and possibly overtake Apple's platform in the next 2 years, more or less.
post #60 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

What nonsense. The marriage has been deemed no such thing as "a huge success" as it hasn't worked yet. Further, in the interim, because of the timing and the way they announced it, it severely hurt their existing business as people quit buying their immediately obsolete symbian phones. Also, try to get your facts right. Nokia does not "own" the smartphone market globally. The only success they have had recently, to keep their market share from totally collapsing, is in low end feature phones in the rest of the world. They have dramatically lost the high end of the market.

That depends how you look at it.

It is big success for MS as Nokia is first major manufacturer dedicated to MS platform - it is not a secret Samsung, HTC... were just "me, too" regarding WP7, putting most their efforts behind Android. Seeing Nokia, others might reconsider WP7 platform more seriously too.

And for Nokia, getting out of Symbian black hole and moving to modern platform is also success, though not as big as what MS achieved with this deal.

Is this going to bring financial success and return to competitiveness, for both Nokia and MS, remains to be seen; but regarding where they were, I think success it is that they both finally moved from that spot.
post #61 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Well aren't you the genius. The fact of the matter is that WP7 has been a huge failure and DED is simply pointing out that with WP7 married with the hardware specs of the new Nokia devices nothing is going to change as they just aren't competitive. He wasn't just calling out hardware specs but the whole system. What is it that you don't get? It seems pretty clear to everyone else...

What DED didn't get is user experience, as he hasn't tried Nokia 800 on the daily basis. Probably not at all, actually. Apple users should know better when it comes to comparing hardware specs and software features on paper, Apple desktops - for example - missing number of apps available for Windows platform and performance parts available for Windows machines, but still being favoured by number of people for experience and ease of use.

What happened with "less is more (if it's done properly)", anyway?

One should really try using phone couple of days, or weeks, on daily basis for calling, texting, mailing, browsing, organizing... before one should compare it with other product he does know well (at least I am presuming DED is using iPhone, right?). Because devil is in the details. Is Zeis glass on Nokia's camera making any difference from same resolution iPhone 4S camera? How is integration with 25GB free SkyDrive really comparing with iPhone's iCloud - there's more free storage, but what about features? Etc, etc.
post #62 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

Wrong. It's in Apples best interest to allow users to _choose_ what services they want to use rather than force people to only use their service. This is yet another reason Windows Phone is a total failure. No one in their right mind would want to be forced to use BING and all the google clone BING services.

Why is Microsoft against choice?

Because they feel it's in their best interest to push their entire ecosystem. They've done letting everyone choose their own thing, but that gets to be unmaintainable. They might open it up to more options gradually, if they follow the Apple model. Apple had only one search engine option at first, then they added a couple others.

I prefer to use not-Microsoft, but I don't get your assertion that Bing is so horrible. I don't think it is. I only don't use it because it is Microsoft, not because I think it's a poor quality product.
post #63 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

Wrong. It's in Apples best interest to allow users to _choose_ what services they want to use rather than force people to only use their service. This is yet another reason Windows Phone is a total failure. No one in their right mind would want to be forced to use BING and all the google clone BING services.

Why is Microsoft against choice?

If its in apples best interest for me to use the service that I want rather than force me to use their service, where is my alternative to the app store.
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post #64 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

What nonsense. The marriage has been deemed no such thing as "a huge success" as it hasn't worked yet. Further, in the interim, because of the timing and the way they announced it, it severely hurt their existing business as people quit buying their immediately obsolete symbian phones. Also, try to get your facts right. Nokia does not "own" the smartphone market globally. The only success they have had recently, to keep their market share from totally collapsing, is in low end feature phones in the rest of the world. They have dramatically lost the high end of the market.

Yet you can comment on the failure of a phone that hasn't even been released to the public yet.
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post #65 of 87
Microsoft only ever gets it right in the long run. I don't expect their early efforts to be that great, but it doesn't mean they won't be a force to be reckoned with eventually. Nothing to be done about it, except keep improving the iPhone.
post #66 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post

And I also like a choice of running Flash too on my iPhone, but that's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. Yes, Apple is full of choices.

I thought this debate was laid to rest by anyone with even the shallowest insight in the computer business.
Apple challenged Adobe for years to come up with flash that actually worked on a mobile device AND at the same time didn't suck battery like there is no tomorrow (or next hour for that matter). FInally Apple had to make a choice in order to go further with iOS. Read the open letter from Steve Jobs for information on the subject or the last interview of Jobs on All things digital for full explanation. So stop the trolling on flash!
post #67 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

If its in apples best interest for me to use the service that I want rather than force me to use their service, where is my alternative to the app store.

Are you fricking joking? That's hilarious.

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post #68 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

30k app store, how many millions WP7 was sold in the last year? Because over 4 million iPhone 4S was sold in less than one week of its release. Get off your high horse and see the failure that windows phone is. Stop trying to coddle Microsoft/Nokia.

Hmm. Didn't we hear similar comments briefly after iPhone and Android were released?....
post #69 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Agreed. Carriers are all talk. Only LTE delivers right now sadly.

Although I have seen some amazing speeds a few times. I saw 11mbps down in Seattle last time I was there. On my Atrix 4g AT&T

Wrong. The LTE figures are such bs that they are working on passing a law to tell people what their real speed is. Plus the LTE coverage so spotty you still end up on 3g networks most of the time. Saw it with my 4G HTC G2.

All products give you figures based on the best case scenario, not most common numbers. Perfect example. My MBP says it has 10 hours of battery life, I've seen it sit at 12 and a half.
post #70 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

probably not. consider the brand and the market.
Nokia owns the market share globally. the fact they partnered with Microsoft has already been deemed a huge success for both companies.

- + - = - At least wen I learned to calculate.
Maybe they should multiply.

J.
post #71 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

What can you review it on then? Cloner Windows Phone devices have been out for over a year, and Microsoft will not release sales numbers because they are that bad.

The OS is total garbage. The UI is horrible. The lock in to the proprietary Windows OS is terrible. The lock in to the equally bad BING/MSN/Live/Hotmail/whatever Microsoft is calling their failed online services this week is terrible. Why doesn't Microsoft allow people to change from the terrible BING search engine? I think we all the answer to that...everyone would use Google as it is so much better.

What else could he review?

Ha ha ha.

J.
post #72 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

First constructive post in this tread.

Strange how almost every post about non-Apple product starts with same-as-the-last-one parade of trolling, before people who actually have something to say chime in. I'm not saying everyone before your post trolled, but many did. Sad, really.

I feel very positive about Nokia 800. Have tried and liked WP7, and Zune Desktop is also much more to my liking than iTunes. In addition, devices looks nice - well built and different from other phones. Integration with 25GB of free SkyDrive is also nice, and I think it is only the beginning; after all, MS is software company, so doing cool things in software should be their thing... otherwise, otherwise, if they cannot bring the fight to other platforms on the software level, they are doomed - and for real. But from what I have seen this far, I am expecting to see integration between Windows phones, tablets, desktops and server products to catch up and possibly overtake Apple's platform in the next 2 years, more or less.

Nobody is saying you can't buy one, or that it will appeal to no one at all. The article merely points out that, apart from those ideologically supportive of Microsoft, Nokia's new WP7 phones don't offer anything the general population will be impressed with. They're not uniquely featured, not cheaper, not nicer, not faster, not anything innovative.

Being tied to WP7 means you get a less ideal ecosystem for music, videos, apps, periodicals, books, and miss out on other features of the very popular iTunes. You can plead that you like the Zune software better, and that's fine, but your opinion is not mainstream. The world hasn't shown any preference for Zune/WP7, in fact, it has been carefully ignored.

And as much as Thurrott-style pundits would like to think, it's not due to Apple "brainwash marketing," because MS is getting a lot of press and has its own ads.

It's also not due to a Windows-like monopoly on the market by Apple, because Apple does nothing to restrict what products can be sold (apart from infringing Android stuff). Apple has done nothing to sign carriers or retailers to exclusive contracts that have locked MS and its WP7 partners out of the market.

MS has failed all on its own. You're free to join, and perhaps you'll eventually benefit from the closeout deals, but to suggest that its morally wrong to print the truth rather than fawning over MS just because the company was relevant in the 90s is evidence that the "bias" and lack of objectivity lies with you, not with AI.
post #73 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Are you fricking joking? That's hilarious.

If its good for the goose...
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post #74 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

If its good for the goose...

the gander couldn't care less because they're happy with what they have and don't want to have to deal with getting crap from two different locations.

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post #75 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

… the gander couldn't care less because they're happy with what they have and don't want to have to deal with getting crap from two different locations.

except when the starter wis complaining that microsoft is bad for controlling the experience...
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post #76 of 87
The pricing is wrong. Anyone with at least half a brain to work with knows you can't simply run pricing through a currency converter to come up with 'equivalent' prices.

In markets where it will be available the Lumia 800 is around 20% less than an iPhone 4 8GB and 33% less than a iPhone 4S 16GB. It's pricing actually puts it in-line with the mid-range Android devices rather than the 4S.

Case in point a $549 iPhone 4 8GB is sold in Australia for the 'equivalent' of $726 USD. This would mean (by using the famous "Dilger" logic) the iPhone 4 8GB is simultaneously more expensive and less expensive than itself.

These kind of basic factual inaccuracies are one reason why you would have to be a complete idiot to take anything this "Dilger" guy writes seriously.
post #77 of 87
do even own or used a windows phone?? U should be comparing the two platforms when it comes to what they can do.. Stop predicting what's gonna happen in the future.. What do u think will happen now that Steve jobs is dead"???

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Nokia's first Windows Phone 7 device offers specifications somewhere between Apple's iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, but is missing some key hardware and software features and will only debut in Europe, effectively leaving the US market to Apple and Android this holiday season.
post #78 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Being tied to WP7 means you get a less ideal ecosystem for music, videos, apps, periodicals, books, and miss out on other features of the very popular iTunes. You can plead that you like the Zune software better, and that's fine, but your opinion is not mainstream. The world hasn't shown any preference for Zune/WP7, in fact, it has been carefully ignored.

The world hasn't really shown any preference for any of these players. People at one point all used Windows Media Player as that was what was on their machine and did the job. Then almost everyone with an MP3 player bought an iPod and therefore started using iTunes, not out of preference but because they had to. Some pople liked it, other didn't but most didn't care. People with iPhones still have to use iTunes and still most don't really care, it's just what was put in front of them. People with WP7 will use Zune, and like iTunes and WMP before it, they won't care as it still does the job they want it to.
post #79 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlee072006 View Post

do even own or used a windows phone?? U should be comparing the two platforms when it comes to what they can do..

Could have sworn that's wants going on here.

Quote:
Stop predicting what's gonna happen in the future..

Maybe you need to stop reading this forum or at least get a better understanding of what we do here.

Quote:
What do u think will happen now that Steve jobs is dead"???

Having WHAT to do with ANYTHING?!

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post #80 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Could have sworn that's wants going on here.



Maybe you need to stop reading this forum or at least get a better understanding of what we do here.



Having WHAT to do with ANYTHING?!

Lol, I was wondering that mahself. This forum has a LOT of issues.... (AKA MACRUMORS NOT NEARLY AS BAD)
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