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Unlike Apple's iOS, Android phones not getting updates - Page 3

post #81 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post


My year and a half old Aria runs the latest release of Gingerbread without issue.

what about the iphone 3g? no ios5? No siri? People can make these stupid arguments all day.

The iPhone 3G was released in 2008.

That would be like the Android G1 getting Ice Cream Sandwich.
post #82 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

The iPhone 3G was released in 2008.

That would be like the Android G1 getting Ice Cream Sandwich.

And that came out almost a half a year after the iPhone 3G. In Android terms that's about as much you get on the market before being discontinued.
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post #83 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post


Imagine, for a minute, that you could control your TV with your voice. And what it was calling up wasn't "channels," but apps. Buy Comedy Central. Buy or rent X. Play free web video. Your TV also has FaceTime on it. Kind of an Apple TV with apps and program storage. Multi-tier cable for $200 a month? No, no. Buy what you actually watch. Get a few basic channels from cable, for sports, live news and events.

And if that ever happens... those few basic channels will be hella expensive.

The reason you get 200 channels is because of how they are bundled.

If you get 200 channels for $100 a month... that doesn't mean you could pick a single channel for 50 cents.

It won't work like that...
post #84 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

It might be worth reading a bit more about the differences in multi-tasking in iOS as compared to traditional multi-tasking, or the sort of multi-tasking which is used in an operating system like Android. There's probably very little (or even no) benefit to 'turning off' any apps at all when you pick up one of your parents' phones.

Beg to differ.

I find that on BOTH my iPhone 4s (one work supplied and one personal) that occasionally some app (or webapp, or website) climbs out of the sandbox (so to speak) and starts running down the battery at an amazing rate. Turning off apps and/or rebooting does the trick.

I don't know why or how it happens, but apparently things do need to be "turned off" at times. Not sure if this occurs on iOS5 as I've only had it for a week.

I recall others on AI reporting this behavior, but it has been a while.

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post #85 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What a foolish argument. Sure, there will always homebrew ways of poorly cramming some OS onto some HW but that isn't how you categorize CE. If the vendor or carrier isn't issuing an update for that device then that's it. Done! Kaput! You can't claim that some guy in Budapest figured out a way to get ICS on the Nexus One (though the speaker and BT don't work and the battery lasts 1/3 the time) and then claim that isn't fragmentation. Consumers aren't going to bother with all that crap. They want a simple solution that works. A solution they can trust. Note the C in CE stands for Consumer, not Coder.

Your assuming that The average customer actually CARES about the version of Android they are on. From my experience, unless they are a heavy internet user in terms of research, this is not the case.

STOP putting words in my mouth, I'm NOT claiming that Fragmentation is non-existant, or not an issue for Android as a WHOLE. I was simply stating that in the case of phones like the Nexus one that since the average customer that bought the thing was most likely some sort of geek, that this would be little to no issue for that particular model.

You also, like so many others seem to happily assume that Rooting is some Ridiculously difficult task that requires immense knowledge of technical know-how and that there is no simpler solution, that you MUST deal with the heart of the phone. An ever increasing number of Android phones are getting 1-click root solutions. Several 1 click root solutions are available on the Official market for free or very cheap. You literally touch the phone and the rooting is done for you, everything else that is done afterwards is no different that if you were regularly customizing your Android phone.

Is Fragmentation an issue? YES IT IS.
Is it something that can't be overcome and is impossible to rectify? NO, Carriers/Google/Manufacturers can choose to upgrade their phones, or customers can themselves via root.

Moto and verizon could easily get ICS on the Droid X for example. Is it gonna happen? No, but does that mean that people can't fix it? Of course not.

That was my message. Fragmentation is an issue, but not something that can't be fixed.
post #86 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Please explain how Android is fragmented then.

No.

You're a troll.

You exist to be a troll. There's not a single thing that you've ever done that points to you existing for any other purpose. You needed to have been banned fifty posts ago.

I only initially replied to you because I was apprehensive of your statement that 2.2 was the only thing you need to get features from several years' newer updates. Which is complete fallacy.

We're done here.

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post #87 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by RepairZoom View Post

Oddly enough I just came across this article which fits perfectly here...


http://theunderstatement.com/post/11...ory-of-support

If I were new to smart phones, and saw that chart, it's pretty obvious which manufacturer's phones I would buy.
post #88 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by stynkfysh View Post

To be fair, Android has separated out much of its OS as separate apps. All Android phones have had maps, email, etc. regularly updated. And also to be fair, all iPhones don't receive all updates in each iOS update. Siri is case-in-point. Only the 4S has that one, officially.

Hardware capability is not the same issue. Of course later phones do more things. I would hope so, it should be inevitable.

The first iPhone didn't have a camera, nor did the first couple of iPod Touches, nor did the first iPad. So, obviously, an update that has to do with taking pictures or making movies isn't going to be implemented on that particular device. Goes without saying, really. Arguably, Siri needs the faster processor (but, to be fair, we don't know that for sure yet).

But, that's not what we are talking about here. So, no, let's be fair...
NEW Android phones don't always ship with the LATEST Android OS.
Relatively new Android Phones, that are perfectly CAPABLE of using the LATEST OS, or even the last one or two, do not get upgraded because Google, the manufacturer, the carrier, or all three, JUST DON'T CARE.
post #89 of 215
My wife bought a Droid X (needed Verizon service before they got the iPhone came out), and it worked for what she needed. One Saturday morning a few weeks ago, the phone seized up for 30 minutes - it had decided that it wanted to update, NOW. Post-update, she can't get to her hotmail account. We've completely zeroed the phone - it won't download hotmail emails beyond the month of July. It's freaking psychotic. So we have to make time to go to the Verizon store and try to get them to fix the $#!%# thing. It's incredible to me.
post #90 of 215
Why would anybody be willing to spend (in cash or through subsidy repayments) $400-700 on a computing device and never want or need to upgrade the operating system? Even on a mature platform like Windows people expect that and routinely upgrade. Not all of them for sure, but I bet most of them insist upon the capability.

I think we are in a unique period of time right now, where smartphones are advancing so rapidly that a relatively short life is more than enough and most people "buy" a new one within 2 years. As the smartphone platforms mature, I am willing to bet that people will keep them longer and thus insist upon upgrade capability.

At the moment, though, Google and partners are probably doing the sensible thing - assuming their users (NOT customers) will replace their smartphone pretty quickly and thus not care about system software upgrades. By contrast, Apple is acting like the iPhone is something to treasure and hold onto for a long time.

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post #91 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

My point was merely the irony of the enduring double-standards here:

When Android users buy a new Android phone, it's because the last one was "garbage", and because they are "stupid".

But when it turns out that nearly 3/4 of iPhone 4S buys already bought an earlier iPhone, it's presented in completely opposite terms.

Personally, I think both OSes have a lot going for them. The only sad thing isn't iOS or Android, but those who mistake either for a religion.


Where you have a point, and everybody is entitled to what they like and don't like, I just can't stand the idea of Droids being good phones on the OS end of things, having owned a few since they first hit the market with the G1. It feels hollow and empty, like the guts are just superficial.

I work in tool retail and handle many products. You can tell the difference between a Ryobi drill and a Black and Decker. Both are drills meant for the same market, both will work, but the Ryobi has the feeling of years of hard work and growth to be better while BnD just feels like years of work to be cheaper. It's the same thing and it shows once you have experienced both. The lack of OS support is just another sign of it.
post #92 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

New Rule: When referring to Android updates categorize them Official or Unofficial.

With that now said, just because the Phone isn't getting updated by Google/Manufacturer/Carrier does NOT instantly mean that that particular phone will NEVER see said version. Case in point, the T-mobile G1 was able to go up to Gingerbread(1.5, 1.6 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3) unsupported by Google or HTC for 3 years before being legacized and abandoned this year by the community. 1 phone duration in canada, almost 2 Entire contracts with a US carrier.

Uhm, that was kind of the entire point of this article. Yeah, there is a user community that ports the versions to phones, but there are only rare phones that the carrier keeps officially updated to anything close to current. If you want to stay current on Android you most likely have to a) make sure Google releases the source code and b) root and update your phone. To do the same w/the iPhone you turn it on and install an update. Done.
post #93 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post

Well, depending on how you define out of date, the IPhone comes out with outdated hardware. Now I own a IPhone 4 and love it. However, Steve is wrong, there is no one size fits all. Otherwise, It wouldn't exist. I am in college(Engineering); so a lot of my friends like to mess with coding and stuff. The android is open so they can do this. I do not know anything about that stuff, so a phone that works great and does most of the same thing, IPhone is better for me. (Until they get more than like 20% thinner than the Iphone 4, then ill jump to android, simply cause I don't get Apple's thing with things being 1mm thin. I want to hold something, not air.

What outdated hardware are you talking about? Yes, I could have an A5 chip instead of an A4, or an 8MP camera instead of 5 -- but what makes the phone useful and valueable to me is not how many pixels Apple crammed on the screen or CMOS, it's what I do with the phone.

Cramming more pixel density onto that size CMOS just in order to be able to say "10MP Camera" on the spec list isn't going to help me take better pictures or scream "up to date" hardware at me. What tells me Apple is up to date is that they are considering other things about the camera -- lens elements, quality of lens, backlighting, color sensitivity and range, speed of response, etc.... and, sure enough, the software for actually taking a picture, thank you very much.

Because of Apple's model and committment to getting OS updates out quickly to even older devices, because Apple wants me to be happy with the phone I have, then I start to view the Phone as more than a bag of parts. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That approach is unique to Apple; it's refreshing, maybe even a bit magical. On the iPhone, an OS update is giving 2+ year-old phones a new lease of life. People are very happy about that.

OTOH, people shopping for an Android phone are forced to look at spec lists, and they are encouraged to look at the last decimal place in terms of GHZ or RAM or pixels and everything else because those are the only things that differentiate the phones -- it is constant one-upmanship between the handset makers and the individual handsets becuase the makers must provide some candy and diversion in order to sell devices.

The Android OS has become the commodity part, and the handset makers have to find other ways to stand out -- they aren't doing it through better service or customer satisfaction; they are, as the article suggests, creating buyers' remorse and making you unhappy so that you will buy a new phone!

But what good are all these specs, these latest components, this up-to-date hardware, if the features depending on them are barely usable, are not supported, or are non-existent in a device because I can't easily get an OS update (short of being an engineering nerd who loves to root his phone)? From the chart we can see just how out of date most phones actually are.

Also, bear in mind that we don't know what Apple has pulled off inside the A4 and A5 SoC. They have done a lot of in-house custom work on them. Yes, they might have started with an off-the-shelf ARM design to base part of it on, but to call much of Apple's stuff "outdated" is a little disingenuous. Then there are the engineering processes with metal and glass, new ideas for antennas that make room for more battery; and of course, there are the advancements in power management and batterylife itself.

So, just because the stock parts that Apple does include might not be as flashy as the latest and greatest Android phone released last week, it's far more likely that these are design and strategic decisions (and the inevitable trade-offs) that allow Apple to deliver other, more advanced hardware elements than competitors would or could.

Really, your argument is just a deflection from the fact that a lot of true innovation and up-to-datedness is accomplished in the software and in elements that don't make the me-too-spec-list.
post #94 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No.

You're a troll.

You exist to be a troll. There's not a single thing that you've ever done that points to you existing for any other purpose. You needed to have been banned fifty posts ago.

I only initially replied to you because I was apprehensive of your statement that 2.2 was the only thing you need to get features from several years' newer updates. Which is complete fallacy.

We're done here.

But what I said was true. And not a single person has yet to prove otherwise.

Here we go for a third time:
-If there's an app that requires 2.3, it's because it requires NFC/FFC
-If the app doesn't use those 2 features, this means that the app could require anything from 1.6-2.2.
-Every phone in the last 2 years has been 2.2, or currently has an option to upgrade to 2.2
-The only fragmentation that I see is with accessories that go with Android phones

I am not posting to "troll". I'm posting because most people seem misinformed about Android and WP7. I currently own every phone except a Blackberry.

Are people that aren't obsessed about Apple trolls? \

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post #95 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

73% of iPhone 4S buyers are upgraders
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...4gb_model.html

Yes, but:

1) upgrading from what? Mostly iPhone 3's or 3G's which are two years old or older. They would upgrade anyway... so, Apple has made them happy, they buy another iPhone. That's the point.

2) Of course they are upgrading... that's how we justify getting iPhones for our wives, kids or other family members. When family start coming out of the woodwork, clamouring for an iPhone you can feel real good about getting a new one, because you know you are making someone else really happy!

3) if the current iPhone is not passed down to family members, it can be sold for a good percentage of its original value, which makes it a good investment, helping toward the purchase of the new model.

So, what was your point?

My dad is getting himself a 4S. It's a replacement for his, wait for it, iPhone 1st Gen 2007! He's an upgrader! Guess what? his 1st gen phone will still be used... one his little grandkids will get it to use as an iPod Touch or in place of some crappy plastic Nokia phone they now have for the bike ride to school. Apps and content will continue to be purchased, and customer satisfaction will continue to be banked by Apple, what, 4 and a half years on.
post #96 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

....it's still behind Froyo (native turn by turn navigation, ...

Well that's a whole revenue stream Google stole from third party developers.

This is one example of why the App store is so strong and why iPhone users have MORE choice in how they customise their phones.

This is another side of Google's "giving away" barely adequate software that does just enough to provide a platform to display their ads.

There is NO competition among third party developers to provide differentiated navigation software experiences as is found on iPhones because there is no INCENTIVE FOR INNOVATION.
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post #97 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Gingerbread introduced a new keyboard, NFC support, native multi camera support, updated video drivers, a new garbage collector, improved power management, new UI refinements, internet calling via SIP account, downloads management.

This doesn't mean that apps can't run on the previous release (Froyo). Your argument doesn't make any sense.

Android is not fragmented. The only issue you would have would be on a device over 2 years old. And that would only be for a limited number of applications.

How about this CURRENT Android phone, released in June this year.

When will it get I scream, sand witch?

How well will the latest Android java programs run on it?

http://www.gsmarena.com/vodafone_858_smart-3955.php

btw it's 80 bucks on PAYG.
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post #98 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Well that's a whole revenue stream Google stole from third party developers.

This is one example of why the App store is so strong and why iPhone users have MORE choice in how they customise their phones.

This is another side of Google's "giving away" barely adequate software that does just enough to provide a platform to display their ads.

There is NO competition among third party developers to provide differentiated navigation software experiences as is found on iPhones because there is no INCENTIVE FOR INNOVATION.

It's the best navigation app across all platforms hands down. People couldn't care less about a single text ad on a portion of their initial searches.

3D building rendering, street view, business reviews, phone numbers, store hours, offline maps, 3d voice navigation with real time traffic, mass transit, walking, and even bike routes. Oh, and it's free.

it puts everything else to shame. I haven't seen an Android user use anything else even though there are other alternatives available.

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post #99 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

How about this CURRENT Android phone, released in June this year.

When will it get I scream, sand witch?

How well will the latest Android java programs run on it?

http://www.gsmarena.com/vodafone_858_smart-3955.php

btw it's 80 bucks on PAYG.

LOL nice find. That phone is in the CM project. So the latest version of Gingerbread (2.3.7) is available.

This has a 500mhz cpu. The hardware is about 3 years old in terms of speed. This will not get ICS, but it will run the newest applications while on Gingerbread

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post #100 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Gingerbread introduced a new keyboard, NFC support, native multi camera support, updated video drivers, a new garbage collector, improved power management, new UI refinements, internet calling via SIP account, downloads management.

This doesn't mean that apps can't run on the previous release (Froyo). Your argument doesn't make any sense.

Android is not fragmented. The only issue you would have would be on a device over 2 years old. And that would only be for a limited number of applications.

You're not making sense. Many current and recent Android phones, let alone 2-yr old phones, are not getting the latest OS updates. So, in terms of some of the updated features you just listed, ones that are basically software/UI/UX improvements and refinements, the latest Android phones might as well be 2+ years old!

Therefore, the developer must target phones running very old versions of Android, regardless if the phone is new or 2+ years old or whatever. The developer must make sure his app runs gracefully or degrades gracefully for those phones on versions of Android without the UI refinements, etc.

In other words, his minimum requirements must be very minimum indeed because of the large number of Android versions in regular use out there by new and old phones alike! That was very clear in the article, and if this doesn't mightily pertain to "fragmentation", then what does?

Many NEW Android phones are using the same version of Android as 2+ yr old Android phones! That is, multiple versions of Android of all vintages are still being put on new phones. And a lack of interest from Google, handset makers, carriers or a combination thereof is not making efforts to get eligible phones updated -- or even LAUNCHED with the latest Android OS. It's a lottery! (if you are a geek, you might be able to update it yourself).

What can we say about 2+ year old versions of iOS? It remains on 4 year old iPhones (my dad still has a first gen iPhone). If developers want to accomodate 3-year old iPhones, they can add support for the version of iOS that is one version immediately previous to the latest version. This will accomodate just about EVERY iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad EVER MADE (the vast majority of the 200 or so million devices).

There were what, four million iPhone 4S sales the first weekend, and by then 20 million downloads of iOS 5 by users of older devices for starters. Then there are the daily sales of every new iOS devices since then. An iOS app developer can pretty safely make iOS 5 the minimum requirement.
post #101 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

My point was merely the irony of the enduring double-standards here:

When Android users buy a new Android phone, it's because the last one was "garbage", and because they are "stupid".

But when it turns out that nearly 3/4 of iPhone 4S buys already bought an earlier iPhone, it's presented in completely opposite terms.

Personally, I think both OSes have a lot going for them. The only sad thing isn't iOS or Android, but those who mistake either for a religion.

Because if they thought the iPhone sucked the first time around, they wouldn't buy it the second time. With Android, you can jump from different manufacturers hoping the next one will be good but you end up just wasting more money.
post #102 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

But what I said was true. And not a single person has yet to prove otherwise.

Here we go for a third time:
-If there's an app that requires 2.3, it's because it requires NFC/FFC
-If the app doesn't use those 2 features, this means that the app could require anything from 1.6-2.2.
-Every phone in the last 2 years has been 2.2, or currently has an option to upgrade to 2.2
-The only fragmentation that I see is with accessories that go with Android phones


My droid eris was bought in 11/2009 and never saw 2.2. In fact it barely saw 2.1 before being discontinued 8-9 months after its release. 2.2 was pretty important because it allowed apps to be saved on the micro sd card. Needless to say, I got an iphone 4s.
post #103 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post

You're not making sense. Many current and recent Android phones, let alone 2-yr old phones, are not getting the latest OS updates. So, in terms of some of the updated features you just listed, ones that are basically software/UI/UX improvements and refinements, the latest Android phones might as well be 2+ years old!

Therefore, the developer must target phones running very old versions of Android, regardless if the phone is new or 2+ years old or whatever. The developer must make sure his app runs gracefully or degrades gracefully for those phones on versions of Android without the UI refinements, etc.

In other words, his minimum requirements must be very minimum indeed because of the large number of Android versions in regular use out there by new and old phones alike! That was very clear in the article, and if this doesn't mightily pertain to "fragmentation", then what does?

New apps scale properly on low end phones. I can play an app like Angry birds on my 600mhz Aria. But on my Atrix with the qHD screen, it looks amazing and takes advantage of the phone's hardware.

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post #104 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post

...the IPhone comes out with outdated hardware...

You want to know about "outdated" hardware?

HTC is one of the Android golden child's, with all the latest hardware, right?

Why do they insist on skimping on onboard memory, memory that is further reduced by loading it up with their own and carrier supplied software which can't be moved or deleted?

The result, unless you carefully micromanage this very limited memory, you will run into problems, such as being no longer able to receive SMS, phone lagging and chugging as it struggles to cope with such a small allocation of memory.

That's what I call outdated hardware, available now, in stores around the world.

iPhone's just have memory, you don't even have to think about it.
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post #105 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

My droid eris was bought in 11/2009 and never saw 2.2. In fact it barely saw 2.1 before being discontinued 8-9 months after its release. 2.2 was pretty important because it allowed apps to be saved on the micro sd card. Needless to say, I got an iphone 4s.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=944430

Some Gingerbread for your phone. Takes about 10 minutes

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You want to know about "outdated" hardware?

HTC is one of the Android golden child's, with all the latest hardware, right?

Why do they insist on skimping on onboard memory, memory that is further reduced by loading it up with their own and carrier supplied software which can't be moved or deleted?

The result, unless you carefully micromanage this very limited memory, you will run into problems, such as being no longer able to receive SMS, phone lagging and chugging as it struggles to cope with such a small allocation of memory.

That's what I call outdated hardware, available now, in stores around the world.

iPhone's just have memory, you don't even have to think about it.

Any software on an Android phone can be removed. HTC Sense is part of HTC's phones, and a lot of the time, is the reason why people choose HTC to begin with. It's for their software.

As for limited storage space, I'm not sure which HTC phone you're talking about, as they all have good internal storage. Micro SD cards come in 2 to 32gb flavors, with a 64gb coming out soon. Most application can be moved onto the SD cards.

You then start to talk about RAM. Which is completely different than internal storage. 2.3 has some very advanced garbage collection features. Almost every new Android including HTCs will have 1gb of RAM. RAM is meant to be used. If it's not used, what's the point of having it?

I'd use 100% of my RAM 100% if I needed to. When you launch another app, it will close something else out so you can run the program.

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post #106 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple states up front that they will only support iOS devices with two OS updates. So that is clearly known when you buy the device.

Where is this clearly stated? Ive never heard of this.
post #107 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

It's the best navigation app across all platforms hands down. People couldn't care less about a single text ad on a portion of their initial searches.

3D building rendering, street view, business reviews, phone numbers, store hours, offline maps, 3d voice navigation with real time traffic, mass transit, walking, and even bike routes. Oh, and it's free.

it puts everything else to shame. I haven't seen an Android user use anything else even though there are other alternatives available.

Outside America it's total crap, it took FIVE YEARS to update the maps in my local area when they replaced roundabouts with traffic lights, FIVE YEARS out of date, searches bring up PAYING businesses e.g. search for John Street and you get John's tyres, John's Pizza etc, etc and somewhere further dan the list what you are really looking for.

The navigation App I use cost $15 and works on both an iPhone and an iPad has speed zones, including variable school zones, it speaks in my accent not with an American accent, it has far more features, maps are onboard which doesn't require an Internet connection AND it can use Google Maps API's for POI searches anyway.
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post #108 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by am8449 View Post

You make an interesting point.

I use an iPhone and have apps like: flashcards, tv listings, language dictionaries, and a sleep tracker; which stray from the typical functionality of a smartphone.

I wonder what portion of Android users use such atypical apps. Any out there care to weigh in?

Some of my apps:
Engineering use: Graphing calculator (I love Andy 83 with more love than you can possibly imagine ), dropbox, wireless tether, and a few server apps my interneship supplied me with.
Social: Some instant messaging apps, a lovely twitter app, and the usual hanging/words with friends.

I have a few games I play on it occasionally (cut the rope being one of my favorites). But the Gameboy Advance emulator gets most of my game time
TalkAndroid anyone?
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post #109 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=944430

Some Gingerbread for your phone. Takes about 10 minutes



Any software on an Android phone can be removed. HTC Sense is part of HTC's phones, and a lot of the time, is the reason why people choose HTC to begin with. It's for their software.

As for limited storage space, I'm not sure which HTC phone you're talking about, as they all have good internal storage. Micro SD cards come in 2 to 32gb flavors, with a 64gb coming out soon. Most application can be moved onto the SD cards.

You then start to talk about RAM. Which is completely different than internal storage. 2.3 has some very advanced garbage collection features. Almost every new Android including HTCs will have 1gb of RAM. RAM is meant to be used. If it's not used, what's the point of having it?

I'd use 100% of my RAM 100% if I needed to. When you launch another app, it will close something else out so you can run the program.

You have to root it to remove that crao.

A few examples:-

HTC Sensation XE

Internal\t4 GB (1 GB user available), 768 MB RAM

3GB of what?

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_sensation_xe-4164.php

Internal\t512 MB ROM, 512 MB RAM

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_status-4022.php

Incredible... outdated hardware with restricted memory JUNK!

Internal\t1.1 GB ROM, 768 MB RAM

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_droid_incredible_2-3938.php

All new, picked at random, none with one GB of RAM, all with outdated hardware i.e. HARDLY ANY ONBOARD MEMORY!!!

That's what I'm talking about.
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post #110 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

My point was merely the irony of the enduring double-standards here:

When Android users buy a new Android phone, it's because the last one was "garbage", and because they are "stupid".

But when it turns out that nearly 3/4 of iPhone 4S buys already bought an earlier iPhone, it's presented in completely opposite terms.

You mean nearly 3/4 of iPhone buyers in the first weekend it's ever available! We don't have figures for anything else. As though no-one else will buy it! Phffft. Oh, survey's say more than 3/4 current iPhone users will buy another iPhone? Naturally. Other manufacturers should be so lucky.

Oh, people are still buying the iPhone 4 and 3GS, and have been for a year and a half! Wonder why that is? Could it possibly have anything whatsoever to do with customer satisfaction and good experience with Apple, or due to impressive testimonials, or quality, or software, or value for money? Naaah, I know what it is -- people are disgusted with Apple's trying to trick them into buying the latest model by adding on some flashy enticements just to give it some kind of cool factor, so these people are sticking it to Apple by buying the one of the last 2 models instead of the current one! Sheeesh, talk about a double-standard!

So, let's ask some people: why did you buy the latest HTC? Because you loved your last HTC, or because you had a Droid and decided to give something else a spin? How about a Samsung next? Sure, if the price is right.

Hey, iPhone user, want a free Nexus IIS with ICS and all the whistles and bells? No, I'll stick with my year-old iPhone 4, thanks anyway.
post #111 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=944430


I'd use 100% of my RAM 100% if I needed to. When you launch another app, it will close something else out so you can run the program.

use 100% and then the performance suffers. Once my brother used my android phone to call his wife. He pressed 'Call' and nothing happened. he gives it me so i press call. Still nothing. I press again and nothing. So he grabs a dumb phone and calls his wife. Meanwhile, I'm looking at my phone and 30 seconds later it starts calling his wife. Obvously I cancel the call but since I press call a few more times earlier, it kept calling.
post #112 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You have to root it to remove that crao.

A few examples:-

HTC Sensation XE

Internal\t4 GB (1 GB user available), 768 MB RAM

3GB of what?

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_sensation_xe-4164.php

Internal\t512 MB ROM, 512 MB RAM

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_status-4022.php

Incredible... outdated hardware with restricted memory JUNK!

Internal\t1.1 GB ROM, 768 MB RAM

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_droid_incredible_2-3938.php

All new, picked at random, none with one GB of RAM, all with outdated hardware i.e. HARDLY ANY ONBOARD MEMORY!!!

That's what I'm talking about.

Yes, you will need to root to remove certain applications. The ones from the carrier you don't need root. Ones from HTC you will need root.

That is interesting about only 1gb available to the user on the Sensation. But keep in mind, Micro SD cards are super cheap. I've seen phones come with 8gb on a micro SD for free.

RAM is a bigger deal. I agree it should have 1gb. But right as I type this, I have 17 processes open. Everything from Swype, to my live wallpaper. 249mb are being used on this Atrix. I have never seen more than 400mb be used at a time.

You can get by on 512, but also keep in mind that HTC Status is a budget phone intended for 13 year olds haha

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post #113 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You have to root it to remove that crao.

A few examples:-

HTC Sensation XE

Internal\t4 GB (1 GB user available), 768 MB RAM

3GB of what?

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_sensation_xe-4164.php

Internal\t512 MB ROM, 512 MB RAM

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_status-4022.php

Incredible... outdated hardware with restricted memory JUNK!

Internal\t1.1 GB ROM, 768 MB RAM

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_droid_incredible_2-3938.php

All new, picked at random, none with one GB of RAM, all with outdated hardware i.e. HARDLY ANY ONBOARD MEMORY!!!

That's what I'm talking about.

My phone has 1 GB internal...for apps...I can easily store 100 apps, including games that require a lot of space...why? External SD card...

soooooooo...no point?

granted I would like more space internal, so far I haven't found any need for such space.

Also he was speaking in future tense in regards to RAM of 1GB
post #114 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Yes, you will need to root to remove certain applications. The ones from the carrier you don't need root. Ones from HTC you will need root.

That is interesting about only 1gb available to the user on the Sensation. But keep in mind, Micro SD cards are super cheap. I've seen phones come with 8gb on a micro SD for free.

RAM is a bigger deal. I agree it should have 1gb. But right as I type this, I have 17 processes open. Everything from Swype, to my live wallpaper. 249mb are being used on this Atrix. I have never seen more than 400mb be used at a time.

You can get by on 512, but also keep in mind that HTC Status is a budget phone intended for 13 year olds haha

While I disagree with your earlier point paraphrased as fragmentation is a myth, you do bring up great points.

Most iPhone users don't understand that with Android being hardware agnostic not every phone made with Android is intended to ever be an iPhone competitor.

The HTC Status is one of those phones...those Metro PCS phones are those phones...

of the hundreds of Android devices in the history of the OS only a small percentage were ever meant to be iPhone competitors...the rest were meant to be good enough, and that shows.

When Apple releases a non flagship iPhone then he may have a point.

But being he is not open-minded enough to attempt to understand an eco-system that isn't Apple he cannot understand those facts.
post #115 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

use 100% and then the performance suffers. Once my brother used my android phone to call his wife. He pressed 'Call' and nothing happened. he gives it me so i press call. Still nothing. I press again and nothing. So he grabs a dumb phone and calls his wife. Meanwhile, I'm looking at my phone and 30 seconds later it starts calling his wife. Obvously I cancel the call but since I press call a few more times earlier, it kept calling.

What Android phone did you have?
post #116 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

Please explain how Android is fragmented then.

I've already explained twice that only need Froyo (2 year old OS) to run the latest applications.

It results in the same issue Microsoft had with Vista and Windows XP. There are very few programs that run on Vista or 7 that don't run on XP. Microsoft has actually had to force the issue by making IE 9 incompatible (though there is no technical reason why it couldn't run). Sure, people running XP could still run the latest applications after Vista was released, but it led to issues because the security enhancements and UI conventions that Microsoft wanted to release with Vista weren't as widespread. In reality, Vista wasn't anywhere near as bad as the press it got, but nonetheless, its slow adoption rate hurt Microsoft (even as it maintained almost 90% market share). The rather slow rate of uptake for new versions of Android may have a similar impact.
post #117 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

My phone has 1 GB internal...for apps...I can easily store 100 apps, including games that require a lot of space...why? External SD card...

soooooooo...no point?

granted I would like more space internal, so far I haven't found any need for such space.

Also he was speaking in future tense in regards to RAM of 1GB

No point?

So the average Joe picks up the latest phone all the geeks at the office have been raving about, sets it up, emails start filling the inbox, all those sense notifications, Facebook and twitter updates, heads to the Android market and downloads some applications starts getting some messages and the call records start filling up, checks some of the pre-installed demo games.

Next thing you know the memory is full and IT STOPS WORKING LIKE A PHONE, nothing whatsoever to do with RAM.

HTC skimps on hardware in order to increase their profits, that's the nature of their business.

They don't care about the user experience.
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post #118 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

New apps scale properly on low end phones. I can play an app like Angry birds on my 600mhz Aria. But on my Atrix with the qHD screen, it looks amazing and takes advantage of the phone's hardware.

Good for you. I can do stuff on my second gen iPod Touch, too. And that is three+ years old and has iOS 4.2 on it (I think). In fact, I use that iPod Touch every day, including to play Angry Birds.

But, you know, we are talking about OS updates and the new things they bring to the table. Like, how much does a developer have to curtail his app, concept or idea in order to make it usable by a fair number or percentage of current OS users?

Maybe the only thing you have to worry about on Android is, as you noted, a couple of minor UI refinements or support for new hardware features like NFC, which, as you point out would require any phone with them to ship with that OS version.

So, fairplay, maybe the developer of Angry Birds doesn't have to worry about much. Glad for him.

On iOS, however, there are a number of significant OS features and enhancements that do not depend on new hardware -- they work perfectly well on the 3GS and 4 (ALL iPhones up to almost 3 years old!).

So what might those be, and why does a developer care? How does this affect his vision for the app, his idea? Well, for example, many iOS apps these days really take advantage of social sharing. So, for one thing, the integration of Twitter into the OS gives up-to-date apps a real edge. Then there is the new notification system and iCloud syncing of data and documents between devices and with OS X, saved states, etc.

Just a lot of things that make a developer with a new idea want to take advantage of all these things in iOS 5 without worrying about which bits someone on iOS 4 can or can't use. And he really doesn't have to worry about it -- because he knows, with almost absolute certainty exactly what percentage of EVERY iOS device EVER MADE is on iOS 5.

He knows, for example, that (conservatively) some 20 million phones per quarter, 10 million iPads, 4 million iPod Touches are sold with the latest version of iOS already installed. He further knows that he can consider it a given that any iOS device sold in the LAST 2.5 years almost certainly has iOS 5 on it too -- because, afterall, the device owner is going to connect to his computer and iTunes at some point, and therefore it's a done deal.

So, talk about how well you can play Angry Birds all you want.
post #119 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

New Rule: When referring to Android updates categorize them Official or Unofficial.

With that now said, just because the Phone isn't getting updated by Google/Manufacturer/Carrier does NOT instantly mean that that particular phone will NEVER see said version. Case in point, the T-mobile G1 was able to go up to Gingerbread(1.5, 1.6 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3) unsupported by Google or HTC for 3 years before being legacized and abandoned this year by the community. 1 phone duration in canada, almost 2 Entire contracts with a US carrier.

Secondly the Nexus one already has an SDK port of Ice cream sandwhich running on it. However it's still missing a some features that are being worked on such as bluetooth and small issues with data.

And lastly, The Nexus one was a developer phone which received almost zero marketing, sold unlocked and primarily for Tech oriented folks so I HIGHLY doubt that Google not updating the Nexus one will stop them from getting Ice cream Sandwhich.

That's like trying to defend the iPhone's shortcomings by saying you can hack it. I purchased the Nexus One because I like unlocked phones. Sure, it didn't sell well, but if Google isn't going to update the Nexus One, that doesn't bode well for HTC updating the very similar Droid Incredible, which did sell reasonably well.

It's the symbolism that's important here. Google has just validated the strategy of most Android OEMs not to keep their products updated.
post #120 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

While I disagree with your earlier point paraphrased as fragmentation is a myth, you do bring up great points.

Most iPhone users don't understand that with Android being hardware agnostic not every phone made with Android is intended to ever be an iPhone competitor.

The HTC Status is one of those phones...those Metro PCS phones are those phones...

of the hundreds of Android devices in the history of the OS only a small percentage were ever meant to be iPhone competitors...the rest were meant to be good enough, and that shows.

When Apple releases a non flagship iPhone then he may have a point.

But being he is not open-minded enough to attempt to understand an eco-system that isn't Apple he cannot understand those facts.

This is extremely eye-opening! I wonder if most vocal Android users understand this.

Someone in this thread was talking about Apple fans here having a double-standard regarding the motivations for upgrading (iPhone users because they are happy with phone, Android users because they are unhappy with phone); but here's a mother of a double standard:

"of the hundreds of Android devices in the history of the OS only a small percentage were ever meant to be iPhone competitors...the rest were meant to be good enough, and that shows."
And yet, "Android" market share is constantly trumpeted. "Android" is said to be "winning". Apple is "failing" because the iPhone didn't gain as much new share as "Android" (all versions of all variants on all manner of what we now know to be non-competitive devices, and also including such things as the Nook and Fire which don't really benefit Google at all).

It's never Android vs iOS -- which would include iPads and iPod Touches (not to mention Apple TVs -- must be as many Apple TV sales as Samsung Tabs).

It's never one Android phone model against the iPhone. (Hint: the 4S, 4, 3GS, or any combination of iPhone models actually on sale at any one time are the number 1, 2, 3 best selling handsets in the world, period).

It's never even all the phone models of one hardware manufacturer (such as the whole portfolio of Samsung or HTC) against the iPhone (current and previous 12-24 month old model).

No, no, it's always "Android" against the iPhone.

(Kind of like how 99% of the world's PC's ran Windows ...but that included cash registers and petrol pumps -- hey, they weren't really meant to compete with Macs, but, hey, you know, we just want you to know how inevitable it is that one day you will be assimilated into the borg.)

And now, now, here we find out that most Android phones aren't even really meant to compete with the iPhone. Whoah, what a revelation! Blows my mind. Most iPhone users don't understand the non-competitive nature of most Android phones? Oh, really? My two-year old can tell you about (or rather show you) the non-competitive nature of most Android phones. Thanks, though!
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