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Apple slips to No. 5 global handset maker, No. 2 in smartphones after iPhone transition quarter

post #1 of 106
Thread Starter 
After buyers holding out for the iPhone 4S resulted in slowed iPhone 4 sales for Apple last quarter, Chinese handset maker ZTE slipped past it to become the fourth-largest global handset maker, while Samsung took the top spot among smartphone vendors worldwide, according to a new analysis.

Research group Strategy Analytics reported on Thursday that Apple slipped to fifth place in terms of global mobile phone shipments after its weakest quarter of the year. Nokia maintained the top spot with 106.6 million units shipped and 27.3 percent market share, while Samsung took second place with 88 million units.

LG took third with 21.1 million units, and Chinese handset maker ZTE shipped 18.5 million phones, besting Apple's 17.1 million iPhone units.

Last week, Apple reported a sequential drop in iPhone sales from 20.34 million units in the June quarter to 17.07 million in the September quarter. The company attributed the sales decline in part to the rumors that a new iPhone was soon to be released.

But, Apple executives believe that the slide was merely a temporary setback. CEO Tim Cook said during a conference call last week that he is confident the company "will set an all-time record for iPhones this quarter."



Thursday's report noted that global handset shipments grew 14 percent annually to reach 390 million units in the third quarter.

Smartphones

A separate report from Strategy Analytics showed that Samsung had risen to the top of the smartphone competition with estimated shipments of 27.8 million units. Apple dropped to second place, though it managed to maintain a lead over former leader Nokia.

Apple had slipped into first place for the first time in the June quarter, but was unable to hold onto it because of heavy anticipation of the iPhone 4S.

Apples global smartphone growth rate slowed to just 21 percent annually in Q3 2011, its lowest level for two years," Neil Mawston, Director at Strategy Analytics, said. "We believe Apples growth during the third quarter was affected by consumers and operators awaiting the launch of the new iPhone 4S in the fourth quarter, volatile economic conditions in several key countries, and tougher competition from Samsungs popular Galaxy S2 model.



Overall, global smartphone shipments grew 44 percent since the third quarter of 2010, significantly outpacing the growth in the global mobile phone industry.

But, not everyone benefitted from the growth. Nokia fell far over the past year, losing more than half its market share. By comparison, Samsung saw an impressive rise from 9.3 percent share last year to 23.8 percent in the third quarter.

Nokia reached 14 percent global smartphone share in Q3 2011, more than halving from 33 percent in Q3 2010," Tom Kang, Director at Strategy Analytics, noted. "The transition from Symbian to Microsoft as Nokias main smartphone platform has clearly been a very challenging process this year. The recent launch of the new Microsoft Lumia portfolio has helped to raise Nokias profile, and Nokia will be hoping the partnership with Microsoft can drive at least an L-shaped recovery in its global smartphone market share over the next few months.

At its Nokia World conference on Wednesday, the company unveiled its first phones running Microsoft's Windows Phone platform. The Finnish handset maker announced earlier this year that it would abandon its Symbian mobile operating system in favor of Microsoft's Windows Phone. The bumpy transition has resulted in a signficant loss in market share.

With Apple and Samsung set up to fight for first and second place in the smartphone market, the stakes remain high in the two companies' ongoing legal battle. Earlier this week, a judge denied a Samsung attempt to block the Italian launch of the iPhone 4S. Apple started the altercation in April, accusing the Samsung of copying its iPhone and iPad devices for its Galaxy smartphones and tablets.
post #2 of 106
I know a lot of you are thinking, "Who the hell are ZTE?" Well here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZTE
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post #3 of 106
I'd like to see Asus get into the Android and WP7 business... Amazing build quality from everything else. They really came out of nowhere.

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post #4 of 106
I wouldn't put apple at #2 for smartphones just yet. The whole shipped vs sold issue really gives us a vague image of what's really out there. They should just look at profits instead.
post #5 of 106
370% increase in Samsung ... Absolutely massive.
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post #6 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post

They should just look at profits instead.

I always love profit per unit, as it tells me how much I am paying to apple to fill their coffers.
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post #7 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

I always love profit per unit, as it tells me how much I am paying to apple to fill their coffers.

Well, it doesn't matter what their profit margin is. We as consumers are paying the same base prices for iphones as people do for android phones. As far as I'm concerned I paid $199. With or without the iphone, I would still have a cell phone bill. Unlike other nitpickers, I calculate the monthly bill as part of my cost of service rather than cost of phone.

Use any smartphone and the wireless bill remains the same, in contract or out. I was out of contract since Jan 2011 and had recently signed a contract for the 4s. Needless to say, my bill didn't miraculously go up after signing the contract nor did it go down when my contract expired in Jan..

The whole "apple products cost more" myth is just that, a myth.
post #8 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post

Well, it doesn't matter what their profit margin is. We as consumers are paying the same base prices for iphones as people do for android phones. As far as I'm concerned I paid $199. With or without the iphone, I would still have a cell phone bill. Unlike other nitpickers, I calculate the monthly bill as part of my cost of service rather than cost of phone.

Use any smartphone and the wireless bill remains the same, in contract or out. I was out of contract since Jan 2011 and had recently signed a contract for the 4s. Needless to say, my bill didn't miraculously go up after signing the contract nor did it go down when my contract expired in Jan..

The whole "apple products cost more" myth is just that, a myth.

My iphone cost me 1300$, a nexus one with SD card would have cost me 1000$

thats a good sized myth
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post #9 of 106
That seems a very optimistic way of reading the figures. That despite a large increase in demand for smartphones the reason Apple sold less is because people are waiting for the 4s. Did the smartphone market really boom that much and this quarter we're going to see a 200% jump in iPhone sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post

Well, it doesn't matter what their profit margin is. We as consumers are paying the same base prices for iphones as people do for android phones. As far as I'm concerned I paid $199. With or without the iphone, I would still have a cell phone bill. Unlike other nitpickers, I calculate the monthly bill as part of my cost of service rather than cost of phone.

Use any smartphone and the wireless bill remains the same, in contract or out. I was out of contract since Jan 2011 and had recently signed a contract for the 4s. Needless to say, my bill didn't miraculously go up after signing the contract nor did it go down when my contract expired in Jan..

The whole "apple products cost more" myth is just that, a myth.

Sounds like your in denial. You calculate the monthly bill as part of the cost of service rather than the phone when if you had a different phone the monthly bill would be less for the same service? In which case I can offer you a great deal, an iPhone 4S for free and a free upgrade to any new iPhones that come out. The line rental will be $10,000 a month but don't worry that just the cost of service.

Also when you say you we're out of contract since Jan 2011, all your really saying is you were overpaying since Jan 2011. You could have probably got the contract reduced as you didn't have a new phone.
post #10 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post


The whole "apple products cost more" myth is just that, a myth.

It is only a myth where the real cost is hidden.

I don't have a 'contract.' I buy my phones unlocked and pay the full real market price for them. When I last bought one, it was between the Samsung Wave and the iP4. The iP4 was 45% more expensive for lower performance and lower hardware specs. The only superiority was in availability of apps. Since I only have need for about two apps, I bought the Wave.
post #11 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

My iphone cost me 1300$, a nexus one with SD card would have cost me 1000$

thats a good sized myth

Yeah and you would have been left out with an obsolete product. The Nexus One can't run Android 4.0

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post #12 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

My iphone cost me 1300$, a nexus one with SD card would have cost me 1000$

thats a good sized myth

How did you come up with that figure? Are you saying that if your monthly bill with a nexus one would be less than if you had an iphone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

That seems a very optimistic way of reading the figures. That despite a large increase in demand for smartphones the reason Apple sold less is because people are waiting for the 4s. Did the smartphone market really boom that much and this quarter we're going to see a 200% jump in iPhone sales.



Sounds like your in denial. You calculate the monthly bill as part of the cost of service rather than the phone when if you had a different phone the monthly bill would be less for the same service? In which case I can offer you a great deal, an iPhone 4S for free and a free upgrade to any new iPhones that come out. The line rental will be $10,000 a month but don't worry that just the cost of service.

Also when you say you we're out of contract since Jan 2011, all your really saying is you were overpaying since Jan 2011. You could have probably got the contract reduced as you didn't have a new phone.

No, I'm implying that with or without an iphone, in or out of contract, my monthly phone bill would remain the same with any competing smartphone. I'll take that 4s for free, if my monthly bill remained the same. However, I'll gladly turn down a junk phone and pay $199 for the 4s instead. Which is exactly what I did.

I've called numerous times to ask for discounts. My options were to switch carriers or cancel service which isn't something I'm willing to do. As I've said, my bill remained the same. I know some people are successful at getting some discounts, and I've gotten some in the past but nothing spectacular. They once gave me $10 off for 6 months, but that was it. If you have some magic connection, please do let me know. I have 4 lines on a family plan and two of them are not currently under contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

It is only a myth where the real cost is hidden.

I don't have a 'contract.' I buy my phones unlocked and pay the full real market price for them. When I last bought one, it was between the Samsung Wave and the iP4. The iP4 was 45% more expensive for lower performance and lower hardware specs. The only superiority was in availability of apps. Since I only have need for about two apps, I bought the Wave.

There is no hidden cost. It's made up by people who want to claim wireless service as part of the cost of the phone. If you found a working smartphone on the street, could you get it activated and use it without paying any monthly service? Or you could just choose not to use wireless service at all, in which case your bill would be zero.

Why don't we calculate our cable bill to the cost of a TV? Electric bill added on to the cost of any electronic device? If that's the case, I'm paying over $1000 a year just to take showers, use the restroom, cook and wash my dishes.

So I stand with my position. The iphone costs $199 + tax. Or, I could sell the iphone for about $600 and apply that to my wireless bill and consider my next 4 or so months to be free service? The contract is moot.

I won't bother trying to argue it any further. I suggest anyone who thinks they're paying $1000 or more for their iphones to not buy one and not use wireless service. After all, it's not like we "need" it to survive. It's a privilege and choice. You can always choose not to use it. Most of us have a phone from our jobs anyway.
post #13 of 106
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post #14 of 106
The problem with our economy is this quarterly horse race. Are these companies / investors only into the battle, or do they want to win the war? Or is this obsession with quarterly figures the only way these analysts eat?
post #15 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post

There is no hidden cost. It's made up by people who want to claim wireless service as part of the cost of the phone. If you found a working smartphone on the street, could you get it activated and use it without paying any monthly service? Or you could just choose not to use wireless service at all, in which case your bill would be zero.

Why don't we calculate our cable bill to the cost of a TV? Electric bill added on to the cost of any electronic device? If that's the case, I'm paying over $1000 a year just to take showers, use the restroom, cook and wash my dishes.

So I stand with my position. The iphone costs $199 + tax. Or, I could sell the iphone for about $600 and apply that to my wireless bill and consider my next 4 or so months to be free service? The contract is moot.

I won't bother trying to argue it any further. I suggest anyone who thinks they're paying $1000 or more for their iphones to not buy one and not use wireless service. After all, it's not like we "need" it to survive. It's a privilege and choice. You can always choose not to use it. Most of us have a phone from our jobs anyway.

It is hidden. I generally don't use mobile data. When I do, I pay for what I use - same for phone calls and texts.

Quote:
Apple iPhone 4 16GB Black Factory Unlocked SIM Free No Network Logos
by Apple £499.00 (US$ 799.692)

Samsung S8500 Wave Mobile Phone SIM Free - Ebony Grey
by Samsung £159.99 (US$ 256.414)

Prices from Amazon.co.uk The iPhone is now more like 300% more expensive. Ok the Wave is a discontinud model, hence the price drop I suspect, but the iP4 was always a lot more expensive.

Honestly, there is no end to comments on this site lauding Apple for having the highest margins in the industry and making the most profit per handset of any manufacturer. They achieve this because the difference between their cost to manufacture and the price they sell them for is greater than for other manufacturers. Why are you arguing against known facts and pretending this isn't so?

I had hoped Steve's reality distortion field would depart with him, but obviously it didn't.
post #16 of 106
With all the hoopla surrounding the iPhone 4S it will be interesting to see how it sells over the next few quarters ahead of a probable redesigned iPhone 5 next year. After the initial launch sales spike will it maintain that or will the doubters look elsewhere or hold off for the iPhone 5. Given that the iPhone makes up such a large percentage of Apple's profits these days it will interesting to see what happens.
post #17 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

370% increase in Samsung ... Absolutely massive.


Check the profit! That is what counts!!
post #18 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post

Check the profit! That is what counts!!

Samsung's profit for its mobile phone division went from $1.05 billion USD in Q3 '10 to $2.3 billion USD in Q3 '11. I'd say that's a pretty massive jump for them.

http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsu...erence_eng.pdf
post #19 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post

Well, it doesn't matter what their profit margin is. We as consumers are paying the same base prices for iphones as people do for android phones. As far as I'm concerned I paid $199. With or without the iphone, I would still have a cell phone bill. Unlike other nitpickers, I calculate the monthly bill as part of my cost of service rather than cost of phone.

Use any smartphone and the wireless bill remains the same, in contract or out. I was out of contract since Jan 2011 and had recently signed a contract for the 4s. Needless to say, my bill didn't miraculously go up after signing the contract nor did it go down when my contract expired in Jan..

The whole "apple products cost more" myth is just that, a myth.

The price of the iPhone is it's off contract price. The iPhone is more expensive.

However, Apple will become largest again this month. It needs to be way larger to compete with the Android market.
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post #20 of 106
[QUOTE=timgriff84;1976389]That seems a very optimistic way of reading the figures. That despite a large increase in demand for smartphones the reason Apple sold less is because people are waiting for the 4s. Did the smartphone market really boom that much and this quarter we're going to see a 200% jump in iPhone sales.


There is already a lot of empirical evidence that people were indeed delaying and waiting for the new iPhone.

* Apple announced that it sold 4 million iPhone 4S in first weekend compared to 1.7 million in the same period following release of iPhone 4 - that's an increase of 135%. 4 million units in just a 3 or 4 days is just less than a quarter of the 17m units sold in the entire 90 days in the Quarter ending 30 September!

* AT&T announced that it activated 2.7 million iPhones last quarter, while it activated more than 1 million of the iPhone 4S alone since it launched last Friday

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...s_hits_1m.html

* Sprint says that the iPhone has attracted more customers than any smartphone in Sprint's history, exceeding even the company's own expectations. Our early results selling the iPhone and iPhone 4 confirm the iPhones ability to attract new customers,

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ery_penny.html
post #21 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

It is hidden. I generally don't use mobile data. When I do, I pay for what I use - same for phone calls and texts.

Prices from Amazon.co.uk The iPhone is now more like 300% more expensive. Ok the Wave is a discontinud model, hence the price drop I suspect, but the iP4 was always a lot more expensive.

Honestly, there is no end to comments on this site lauding Apple for having the highest margins in the industry and making the most profit per handset of any manufacturer. They achieve this because the difference between their cost to manufacture and the price they sell them for is greater than for other manufacturers. Why are you arguing against known facts and pretending this isn't so?

I had hoped Steve's reality distortion field would depart with him, but obviously it didn't.

I don't get the kind of Apple fans who want them to make profits over market share, and eulogise the iPhones margin's and Apple's profits. Apple should continue with high end ( even higher end) devices, and also go for the low medium end devices. It needs to increase market share, which is what Tim Cook himself points out.
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post #22 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I don't get the kind of Apple fans who want them to make profits over market share, and eulogise the iPhones margin's and Apple's profits. Apple should continue with high end ( even higher end) devices, and also go for the low medium end devices. It needs to increase market share, which is what Tim Cook himself points out.

I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.

All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.
post #23 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.

All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.

might be as high as 99.9%
post #24 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.

All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.

This is an investors forum, in part. In terms of the kind of software available to you, the market share of the platform matters. So the % matters, as it does to Apple.

As for this kind of rhethoric "it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff." - thats generally made by people on forums like this regarding arguments they don't like made on forums like this.

Thats what we are here to discuss. Its also an excuse: When Apple dominates a market there is much crowing, when they start to recede there is much excuse making.

Personally I think they will come back strong this Q. And we will discuss that here. Which is what this forum is for.
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post #25 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

might be as high as 99.9%

if people didn't give a shit there would be much more movement between devices, but Apple users are sticky. So they care about the brand.
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post #26 of 106
Apple is behind ZTE? Who the hell is ZTE?

That is just pathetic.

Samsung seems to be doing very will with its new Superphones, however.
post #27 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Apple is behind ZTE? Who the hell is ZTE?

That is just pathetic.

Samsung seems to be doing very will with its new Superphones, however.

ZTE are Chinese. Eventually everything will be Chinese.
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post #28 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post

I wouldn't put apple at #2 for smartphones just yet. The whole shipped vs sold issue really gives us a vague image of what's really out there. They should just look at profits instead.

Profits and market share are only tangentially related.

This isn't a story directed at stock investors. It is directed at consumers of smartphones, and not towards the owners of these companies.

ISTM that by bringing up the shipped vs sold FUD, you question the veracity of the information presented. Did you look into their methodology?
post #29 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post


The whole "apple products cost more" myth is just that, a myth.

Is it also a myth that Android phones cost less?
post #30 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Profits and market share are only tangentially related.

This isn't a story directed at stock investors. It is directed at consumers of smartphones, and not towards the owners of these companies.

ISTM that by bringing up the shipped vs sold FUD, you question the veracity of the information presented. Did you look into their methodology?

The report does say shipments, however, not sales. That said these are excuses. Apple will probably do 30M this Q and so market share will be a good metric once again, here on AI.
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post #31 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

They achieve this because the difference between their cost to manufacture and the price they sell them for is greater than for other manufacturers.

Quote:
I had hoped Steve's reality distortion field would depart with him, but obviously it didn't.

I am confused here. In my view of product development - if you build a superior product / support a superior experience, you get to charge a superior price. If you make superior profits, good for you.

If, on the other hand, your product is virtually indistinguishable from 10 others on the market, well then, your per product margins are likely to be lower.

If you can't turn a nice profit, I don't care how many of them you sell. If you can turn a nice profit and you can maximize your sales point on that curve - then you've done well. Very well. (There is also the effect of not cheapening your brand by dropping your prices to get exceptional volumes - works well once but tends to have a negative impact long term)
post #32 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

The problem with our economy is this quarterly horse race. Are these companies / investors only into the battle, or do they want to win the war? Or is this obsession with quarterly figures the only way these analysts eat?

What would you prefer? Annual financial disclosure to the owners of the companies? No disclosure? Weekly?
post #33 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by UIGuy View Post

I am confused here. In my view of product development - if you build a superior product / support a superior experience, you get to charge a superior price. If you make superior profits, good for you.

If, on the other hand, your product is virtually indistinguishable from 10 others on the market, well then, your per product margins are likely to be lower.

If you can't turn a nice profit, I don't care how many of them you sell. If you can turn a nice profit and you can maximize your sales point on that curve - then you've done well. Very well. (There is also the effect of not cheapening your brand by dropping your prices to get exceptional volumes - works well once but tends to have a negative impact long term)

The thing is - that argument is made by Apple fans ( but only when market share is in decline) but not by Apple, who never mention gross margin outside of financial conference calls where they have to. When Tim Cook gets up on stage he shows graphs of Apple's market share, he doesn't sugar the pill. He shows Apple at a mere 5% of all mobile shipments, and says he wants to go higher as all phones will be smart some day. That means going cheaper.

This doesn't sully Apple's brand because they still have the high end stuff ( similar to iPods).
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post #34 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I had hoped Steve's reality distortion field would depart with him, but obviously it didn't.

The Steve-isms are likely to persist for a few more years. I see ham-handed attempts to distract and confuse here all the time, and I never really knew the origin until I read the new Bio of Steve.

He was masterful at confusing the issue by using words in a bizarre, but not-easily-detected as incorrect manner. People here do the same wordplay, but not very skillfully. Their specious arguments are clearly that. Steve, OTOH, bing a very smart (and very powerful) man, was able to pull it off.

All that can be done is to point out the mistaken use of language - the bullshit use of language will stop eventually, but not very soon.
post #35 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

The Steve-isms are likely to persist for a few more years. I see ham-handed attempts to distract and confuse here all the time, and I never really knew the origin until I read the new Bio of Steve.

He was masterful at confusing the issue by using words in a bizarre, but not-easily-detected as incorrect manner. People here do the same wordplay, but not very skillfully. Their specious arguments are clearly that. Steve, OTOH, bing a very smart (and very powerful) man, was able to pull it off.

All that can be done is to point out the mistaken use of language - the bullshit use of language will stop eventually, but not very soon.

We'll all be plain speakers like Tim Cook some day.
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post #36 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post

Check the profit! That is what counts!!

If you were deciding among an XBox, A Wii or a Playstation, would you check the profit? How does that count?
post #37 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

We'll all be plain speakers like Tim Cook some day.

I know very little about Tim Cook. I assume that your comment was sarcastic.

Does Tim Torture the language like Steve used to ? Is he too full of ...? Does he say things he doesn't mean in public forums?
post #38 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I know very little about Tim Cook. I assume that your comment was sarcastic.

Does Tim Torture the language like Steve used to ? Is he too full of ...? Does he say things he doesn't mean in public forums?

He is a plain speaker, genuinely. I doubt if he is on public forums though.

( I am merely following your logic on what we do - follow the lead of the Apple CEO).
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post #39 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Is it also a myth that Android phones cost less?

Nexus S is £514 on pay as you go.
iPhone 4S is £499 on pay as you go.
Galaxy S II is £549 on pay as you go.
Motorola Razr is £454 on pay as you go.

All RRP, VAT included.
On a contract they all start at £30 and go as high as £70 a month.

Please go away and check your numbers again

P.S.
These are all the latest phones. if you are going to shove an old HTC Desire HD in my face, be sure to get the original selling price, not the reduced price from Amazon nearly a year later

... at night.

Reply

... at night.

Reply
post #40 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

Nexus S is £514 on pay as you go.
iPhone 4S is £499 on pay as you go.
Galaxy S II is £549 on pay as you go.
Motorola Razr is £454 on pay as you go.

All RRP, VAT included.
On a contract they all start at £30 and go as high as £70 a month.

Please go away and check your numbers again

P.S.
These are all the latest phones. if you are going to shove an old HTC Desire HD in my face, be sure to get the original selling price, not the reduced price from Amazon nearly a year later

So some android phones are more expensive. The real question is the middle to lower end. Whats the cheapest off contract iPhone ( the 3GS) and whats the cheapest off contract Android device?
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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  • Apple slips to No. 5 global handset maker, No. 2 in smartphones after iPhone transition quarter
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