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Taiwan concerned Apple's slide-to-unlock patent could hurt market - Page 2

post #41 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMacGuy View Post

Why can't you simply say "Open Sesame" to unlock the thing?

That would be ...

Old Mac Guy "Please Siri, unlock"
Siri "Voice analysis confirms you are Old Mac Guy, unlocked"
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #42 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:30am
deleted
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #43 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post

Where does this show it was invented before the iPhones unlock. they had been working on the iPhone years before it was released.

This particular device is from March 2005. Its predecessor using the same unlock gesture is from 2004. The iPhone is from 2007, so is the patent application for slide to unlock. It should have been rejected for want of novelty.
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post #44 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

I'm not familiar with Win7, but it seems a growing opinion that Win 8 may infringe:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/w...k-patent/15789

This means that the company that controls 82% of the desktop and according to AppleInsider has a vested interest in Android's proliferation now also has another reason to throw its full weight into joining the international effort to invalidate this patent.

If this patent survives it may be among the most vetted patents in history.

Oh God, we need patent reform!
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post #45 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The original purpose of the unlock slide as a very specific gesture was to prevent it from unlocking in your pocket and accidentally dialing your wife while you are making out with your girlfriend.

Is the WinPhone unlock an equally deliberate sliding action or is it just slide up anywhere on the screen?

The Windows Phone is more like a panel sitting infront of the home screen that you slide up to reveal the home screen. You have to slide it just over half way for it to continue on its own.

It could easily be argued that it isn't a slide to unlock as the only mention of lock on the phone is when you have to enter a pin to unlock the phone. In this case you slide the panel up which pulls a keypad up underneath, and then its an enter pin to unlock.

Other manufacturers shouldn't be to worried. As it's not well designed what locking a phone actually is.

The Windows Phone also displays quite a lot of info on the lock screen along with controls for music. So it's not really locked if you can see your next apointment and play music.
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post #46 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

I'm not familiar with Win7, but it seems a growing opinion that Win 8 may infringe:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/w...k-patent/15789

This means that the company that controls 82% of the desktop and according to AppleInsider has a vested interest in Android's proliferation now also has another reason to throw its full weight into joining the international effort to invalidate this patent.

If this patent survives it may be among the most vetted patents in history.

Do not Apple and Microsoft have a cross patent licensing agreement? Or does that only extend so far/to certain patents?
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post #47 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssls6 View Post

damn, apple versus all of Taiwan?

This may force Taiwan to seriously consider reunification with the mainland. Then the U.S. will be forced to send troops to Cupertino to prevent Apple from going nuclear.
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post #48 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by main1event View Post

There is no doubt Google infringed on apples ideas. They could definitely come up with their own ideas but that would take originality, god forbid its much easier to duplicate someone.

What's so new and novel about taking the sliding power/lock switch and putting on the screen? It's another one of their bullshit software patents.
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post #49 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:40am
First we had Too Big To Fail.

Now Taiwan thinks there should be a new category: Too Smart To Patent?

Can anybody see, any more, how Apple completely and utterly changed the entire LOOK of virtually everything you carry around all day? And they did it the old fashioned way: spent billions on developing it (plus a few sessions with The Steve).
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post #50 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter02l View Post

This may force Taiwan to seriously consider reunification with the mainland. Then the U.S. will be forced to send troops to Cupertino to prevent Apple from going nuclear.

That would be awesome. I think Steve Job's brain in in some mainframe in Cupertino somewheres. It's like motherbrain but....Steviebrain.

I'm ready for war!
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post #51 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:41am
What total nonsense. Like there is no other possible gesture another manufacturer can come up with?!
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post #52 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

The Chinese and Koreans need to stop copying Apple and create their own products.

Copying is a sign of an immature society.

The Japanese use to copy U.S. products in the 1960s. Those old enough to experience it can laugh at the crappy clones the Japanese companies produced. But the Japanese grew up and now create their own products.

Grow up Taiwan.

And I though Google and Microsoft were American companies!! Must refresh Geography again!
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post #53 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:45am
Wow how stupid can the taiwanese be? Right now I can think of a a bajillion ways to unlock a damn touch screen. Idiots. The taiwanese government should encourage their companies to be more innovative rather than protect copycat technology. This is the reason why it is better to support companies like apple because at least apple helps propel technology into the future. Support the innovators not the imitators.
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post #54 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter02l View Post

This may force Taiwan to seriously consider reunification with the mainland. Then the U.S. will be forced to send troops to Cupertino to prevent Apple from going nuclear.

That's a funny thought. "World war III caused by slide to unlock disagreement between two countries"
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post #55 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

What's so new and novel about taking the sliding power/lock switch and putting on the screen? It's another one of their bullshit software patents.

Then again what is so new with touch screens that really work, grid pattern icons and then a music player and a phone? So why are every other manufacturer's product resembles the iPhone after it came out?
The simplest ideas change so many things. You don't think that slide to lock came out of nowhere do you.... I am sure there were so many ideas about the simple matter of unlocking the iPhone were rejected till they hit on the right one. An all those ideas cost money and time.
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post #56 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmach View Post

Then again what is so new with touch screens that really work, grid pattern icons and then a music player and a phone? So why are every other manufacturer's product resembles the iPhone after it came out?
The simplest ideas change so many things. You don't think that slide to lock came out of nowhere do you.... I am sure there were so many ideas about the simple matter of unlocking the iPhone were rejected till they hit on the right one. An all those ideas cost money and time.

It came out of necessity since SJ hates buttons. Nothing about the "switch" is any different than the same physical switch already in use for decades. Saying they deserve to have patent protection on this vs. copyright on the actual computer code in use is ridiculous.
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post #57 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

A Dutch court ruled an earlier Apple patent on the slide to unlock gesture was invalid because of prior art. The Neonode N1m phone running Windows CE had a similar gesture in 2006, but it didn't display a graphic. Apple added that to the new patent, but it's entirely possible a court will rule that to be "obvious" and unpatentable.

The patent application was submitted in Dec., 2005.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

What's so new and novel about taking the sliding power/lock switch and putting on the screen? It's another one of their bullshit software patents.

I'd say it was new and novel 6 years ago.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #58 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post

Where does this show it was invented before the iPhones unlock. they had been working on the iPhone years before it was released.

Part of the problem with patent law is determining who OWNS an idea. In some cases a patent can be granted to the person/company who implements an idea first rather than the one that thinks it up. Personally I think it's ridiculous, the whole idea of this and similar unlock schemes being patentable in the first place.

Apple's patent includes specific information about underlying graphics (which the Neonode phone did not have) so I suppose that makes it unique but to claim Apple invented slide-to-unlock (without assuming they filed patent long ago) seems silly.
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post #59 of 120
10/28/11 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I can think of a couple of gestures (no copyright) the Taiwanese government might be seeing a lot of in the near future.

But then they would have to keep the camera turned on all the time.
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post #60 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


"I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong," he said. "I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this."

And for 40 billion, apple can easily afford multiple warheads. Get out of mountain view NOW!
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post #61 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Apple's patent includes specific information about underlying graphics (which the Neonode phone did not have) so I suppose that makes it unique but to claim Apple invented slide-to-unlock (without assuming they filed patent long ago) seems silly.

This is the biggest problem with people's impressions of what patents actually are.

Patents are not claims on ideas, they are claims on implementing ideas.

There can be 100 different "slide to unlock" patents, but they must all be unique in implementation somehow.

Software patents are more difficult and likely more subject to litigation, because there is no way to immediately see how something was implemented. Companies have to be dragged into courts to expose their code and algorithms and prove it is uniquely implemented.


Furthermore, even if the Neonode did have something similar before the patent application, then only they fall under the "prior art" umbrella, not everyone else. Prior art can be used to invalidate a patent if the described idea was common at the time.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #62 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

The patent application was submitted in Dec., 2005.


I'd say it was new and novel 6 years ago.

The first Neonode was announced in 2002 and was in sale since March 2004. The n1m model was released in July 2005. That was all before Dec. 2005 (where did you get that date anyway? The U.S. Patent No. 8,406,721 which was recently awarded was filed on June 2, 2009).

So no, it wasn't new or novel 6 years ago.
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post #63 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:15am
IANAL but why does "on a screen" suddenly make something patent able? a metaphore to a physical action is not a new idea and a sliding bolt lock is also not a new idea...
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #64 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonord View Post

And for 40 billion, apple can easily afford multiple warheads. Get out of mountain view NOW!

I would side with Samsung - they have actual warheads.
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post #65 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:24am
Smells like oligarchy to me.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #66 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Why use a gesture at all. What's wrong with a good old-fashioned button.

It takes more than a gesture to unlock an iPhone - you first have to press one of two buttons. If Apple hadn't created the swipe motion we'd probably all be typing in a code, flicking a virtual switch, or checking a 'unlock', or 'cancel' box.

Funny how innovation always seem so obvious once its there.
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post #67 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Smells like oligarchy to me.

What does?
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post #68 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

.....with a phone the size of mine slide-to-unlock is completely impractical, so I use the pattern unlock, and answer calls by pressing the camera button.

Wow, now that's intuitive. So you take a picture by pressing the call button?

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #69 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

What does?

Government speaking for private corporations.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #70 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:39am
Perhaps Android makers could just start paying patent owners for their work instead of just expecting to get it all for free?
Nah.
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post #71 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Funny how innovation always seem so obvious once its there.

So true... And if innovation is so easy, it should be nothing for the patent violators to just create something new. If innovation is so easy, Taiwan should not be stressed.
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post #72 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Government speaking for private corporations.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but unification of corporations with government is called 'fascism', not oligarchy.
Its where China leapfrogged us to. But don't worry... we'll get there.
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post #73 of 120
10/28/11 at 10:48am
Why not just lick the screen to unlock?

The phone would have to analyse your saliva - thus adding extra security

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post #74 of 120
10/28/11 at 11:13am
how about biometrics (eg, eyes, finger)? Are they already patented (probably not for unlocking mobile devices?)
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post #75 of 120
10/28/11 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Wow, now that's intuitive. So you take a picture by pressing the call button?

Lol, no, of course, I just never want to answer a call and take photos simultaneously, so I'm happy to be able to repurpose the button. It's intuitive for me, and I don't let others answer my phone.
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post #76 of 120
10/28/11 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Why use a gesture at all. What's wrong with a good old-fashioned button.

Exactly. Or voice recognition, face recognition, fingerprinter reader, or simple pass code to unlock. There are so many solutions but the Taiwanese, ever desperate to copy Apple, complain about not being able to use slide-to-unlock? Figures.

Of course, rather to interpret the Taiwanese as lazy copiers, one could also see slide-to-unlock as the simplest and most elegant solution.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #77 of 120
10/28/11 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

It takes more than a gesture to unlock an iPhone - you first have to press one of two buttons. If Apple hadn't created the swipe motion we'd probably all be typing in a code, flicking a virtual switch, or checking a 'unlock', or 'cancel' box.

Funny how innovation always seem so obvious once its there.

Uh, I unlocked my old mp3 player and cd player the same exact way a person unlocks an iphone, only diff is one is a physical switch and another is software.
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post #78 of 120
10/28/11 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The original purpose of the unlock slide as a very specific gesture was to prevent it from unlocking in your pocket and accidentally dialing your wife while you are making out with your girlfriend.

Is the WinPhone unlock an equally deliberate sliding action or is it just slide up anywhere on the screen?

If the phone is in your pocket while you make out with your girlfriend, any type of "slide to unlock" may not be safe.
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post #79 of 120
10/28/11 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by timboslize View Post

Wow how stupid can the taiwanese be? Right now I can think of a a bajillion ways to unlock a damn touch screen. Idiots.

Except they aren't idiots. Therefore this is just a pretext.
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post #80 of 120
10/28/11 at 11:37am
I think some of you guys are over-reacting to this patent, but two things spring to mind here.

1. If clear prior art can be shown, Apple's lawyers won't bother defending this as it's a waste of time and money. So either this is different to prior art, or more likely, Apple are patenting everything about iOS that they possibly can.

Remember that Apple famously lost against MS because they did not use enough IP protection that was made available to them. Apple learned an expensive mistake that day, which Steve Jobs has long since mentioned. Hence, once bitten twice shy. Apple will patent everything and anything that they can identify on the iPhone/iPod/iPad that they can. Regardless.

If someone has a prior claim, then they will simply walk away. But as insurance policies go, this is $10k a pop and is petty cash for a business like Apple.

2. What is disturbing is the Taiwanese Govt getting involved. Could you imagine if this was a role reversal and it was Obama colluding with Apple to prevent a foreign competitor screwing home grown US companies?

It's called protectionism, and regardless of what Apple has ever done, HTC calling in their local Government is a worrying thing.
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