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Taiwan concerned Apple's slide-to-unlock patent could hurt market - Page 3

post #81 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

IANAL but why does "on a screen" suddenly make something patent able? a metaphore to a physical action is not a new idea and a sliding bolt lock is also not a new idea...

The difference is huge. a timer when combined with a wiper blade is an invention. a timer when combined with a clock is another. a timer when combined with an artificial heart valve yet another. bring things together to make something new is an invention.
post #82 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssls6 View Post

The difference is huge. a timer when combined with a wiper blade is an invention. a timer when combined with a clock is another. a timer when combined with an artificial heart valve yet another. bring things together to make something new is an invention.

Those are physical; the implementation of apple's is all done in software. And even if you claim it involves some hardware, software that works with hardware has recently been ruled not patentable.
post #83 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Lol, no, of course, I just never want to answer a call and take photos simultaneously, so I'm happy to be able to repurpose the button. It's intuitive for me, and I don't let others answer my phone.

So, obvious as it may be, maybe that's the reason for Apple wanting to patent such a gesture. What you describe, repurposing buttons on your phone, is exactly what Apple stands against. Apple's products are conceived and created so anyone can use and keep it 100% functional with as little effort as possible. I love to tinker with my electronic gadgets but I really appreciate all of the behind-the-scenes work Apple puts into its products so I don't have to mess with anything. They think things through in a practical way.

That's why they say....."It Just Works"

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post #84 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The original purpose of the unlock slide as a very specific gesture was to prevent it from unlocking in your pocket and accidentally dialing your wife while you are making out with your girlfriend.

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post #85 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssls6 View Post

The difference is huge. a timer when combined with a wiper blade is an invention. a timer when combined with a clock is another. a timer when combined with an artificial heart valve yet another. bring things together to make something new is an invention.

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post #86 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

So, obvious as it may be, maybe that's the reason for Apple wanting to patent such a gesture. What you describe, repurposing buttons on your phone, is exactly what Apple stands against. Apple's products are conceived and created so anyone can use and keep it 100% functional with as little effort as possible. I love to tinker with my electronic gadgets but I really appreciate all of the behind-the-scenes work Apple puts into its products so I don't have to mess with anything. They think things through in a practical way.

That's why they say....."It Just Works"



What ever happened to "Think Different"?
post #87 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post



What ever happened to "Think Different"?

They probably figure it doesn't resonate as well with consumers since there are so many companies following Apples design aesthetic. "it just works" indicates the brains behind the beauty.
post #88 of 120
Looking at Neonode N1m, I think iPhone's unlock is pretty different because it is a "gesture" not a "grid sequence" and iPhone has a visual feedback that simulates the "drag" motion while Neonode does not.

Also, as for Taiwan, because it is a small county/state/province (I don't want to get into a political debate depending on which side you are on) , the Taiwanese government frequently organize d resources and initiatives to aid the industry such as PC components, memory chips... etc. In fact some critics have suggested that companies have been accustomed to getting government help.

My advice to HTC, find a different way to unlock the phone. Why copy Apple?
post #89 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

Looking at Neonode N1m, I think iPhone's unlock is pretty different because it is a "gesture" not a "grid sequence" and iPhone has a visual feedback that simulates the "drag" motion while Neonode does not.

How you choose to explain it doesn't matter, it's the same gesture the image notwithstanding. Apple's implementation works without the visual feedback as well, making the latter dispensable. That addition alone should not have been considered patent-worthy.

Quote:
Why copy Neonode?

FTFY
post #90 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post



What ever happened to "Think Different"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

They probably figure it doesn't resonate as well with consumers since there are so many companies following Apples design aesthetic. "it just works" indicates the brains behind the beauty.

What he said.

Right-on, Doctor!

That tagline worked then, this one works now.

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post #91 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

...
That tagline worked then, this one works now.

Whatever works for you... When principles become replaced by marketing slogans, the downfall is imminent.
post #92 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Whatever works for you... When principles become replaced by marketing slogans, the downfall is imminent.

So you see the "think different" ad campaign as a principle and "it just works" as a marketing slogan(has that been used in an ad?)? Not sure you're making sense here.
post #93 of 120
Certainly, paying for Apple's intellectual property hurts competitors, compared to stealing Apple's patented products for free. That is what life is like in a society where intellectual property rights exist.

Taiwan being unable to copy & resell Apple's patented designs might indeed give Apple a corner on its own patented design. Again, what is wrong with that.
post #94 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Apparently if most people saw it first on Apple device, that means Apple owns it. It's not a novel idea of Apple's, but like all things they 'borrow' and bring to masses they will get credit along with exploitation rights.

The patent application was made in 2005? Two years before anyone saw it on the iphone. I'm not gonna get into whether it should be patentable or not though, I don't know anything about intellectual property. I would have to agree that it was first seen and utilized on an apple product though.
post #95 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

Looking at Neonode N1m, I think iPhone's unlock is pretty different because it is a "gesture" not a "grid sequence" and iPhone has a visual feedback that simulates the "drag" motion while Neonode does not.

Also, as for Taiwan, because it is a small county/state/province (I don't want to get into a political debate depending on which side you are on) , the Taiwanese government frequently organize d resources and initiatives to aid the industry such as PC components, memory chips... etc. In fact some critics have suggested that companies have been accustomed to getting government help.

My advice to HTC, find a different way to unlock the phone. Why copy Apple?

The neonode gave their demonstration AFTER the iphone was already released. The patent itself was filed in 2005, two years before the iphone came out. So who copied who? We don't know. What we do know, is apple applied for and was awarded the patent.
post #96 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post

The neonode gave their demonstration AFTER the iphone was already released. The patent itself was filed in 2005, two years before the iphone came out. So who copied who? We don't know. What we do know, is apple applied for and was rewarded the patent.

Bollocks! The Neonode has been sold since 2004. Stop making up stuff.
post #97 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

So you see the "think different" ad campaign as a principle and "it just works" as a marketing slogan(has that been used in an ad?)? Not sure you're making sense here.

Exactly. "Think Different" is an advice, an order, an imperative. It doesn't just cajole you into buying something, it tells you to open your mind.

"It just works" -- meh. Meant to appeal to the lesser minds.
post #98 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

"It just works" -- meh. Meant to appeal to the lesser minds.

It is also meant to appeal to the tech illiterates. Go to the Apple help website, and read the forums.

"It Just Works" is blatantly untrue.
post #99 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

It's fairly clear that Google's "gesture to unlock" is not covered by this patent, is anything else? Let's get some actual examples and facts for a change.

You know, it kind of makes me wonder about the rollout of the 'use your face to unlock' - wonder if they were worried that Android was about to become impossible to gesture your way into?

Of course, if it turns out that existing Android builds are in violation, it should make for good entertainment seeing how companies roll out even fewer updates for older devices rather than having to put in an alternative method or license it. Or will they be sued for the older violations anyway? I guess they could argue that there were very real damages.
post #100 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

...
"It Just Works" is blatantly untrue.

Sadly, so is "Think Different" -- at least around here.
post #101 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Exactly. "Think Different" is an advice, an order, an imperative. It doesn't just cajole you into buying something, it tells you to open your mind.

"It just works" -- meh. Meant to appeal to the lesser minds.

But like I said, with so many companies following apples designs it's obvious that the "think different" ad campaign was appropriate then but not now.

Edit: "lesser minds"? Not sure I see evidence of a greater mind in you're posts.
post #102 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

[Before swipe-to-unlock] you hit the large Menu button in the center of the giant keyboard [to unlock].

Actually a variety of "innovative" methods were used by manufacturers and could still be used. It's simply WEIRD to get hung up over the swipe-to-unlock patent. An Apple patent they should all be quivering over instead is the multi-touch interface on a capacitive display. And if Apple made a bigger deal about protecting this patent, they might also have a better chance at obtaining their desired trademark for Multitouch.
post #103 of 120
This is just a giant Taiwanese company influencing the government through its puppets to fight a battle they cannot win.
post #104 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

But like I said, with so many companies following apples designs it's obvious that the "think different" ad campaign was appropriate then but not now.

Well then if everyone is copying now then it is even more important today to tell people to "think different".

Quote:

Edit: "lesser minds"? Not sure I see evidence of a greater mind in you're posts.

I post solely to impress you so that you can recognize my greatness...

Not!
post #105 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post

Where does this show it was invented before the iPhones unlock. they had been working on the iPhone years before it was released.

For Apple, the patents themselves lay out the trail of filings for the unlock method: July 2002, Dec 2005, and January and June 2007.
post #106 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

He directed the country's Ministry of Economic Affairs and Industrial Research Institute to look into the matter.

Translation:
He instructed relevant government officials to see how they can possibly alter laws that would nullify patents held by foreign corporations who threaten Taiwanese companies that prefer to copy technology rather than innovate their own.

To be fair, every country, even the USA, has this common moral failing. Human beings most often prefer to "protect their own" rather than "do what's right."
post #107 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Well then if everyone is copying now then it is even more important today to tell people to "think different".



I post solely to impress you so that you can recognize my greatness...

Not!

1. Reusing the think different campaign to get competitors to stop copying won't work and seems to me to be a bad idea.

2. Of course your posts aren't intended to impress me. You post generically about "lesser minds" to make yourself feel superior.

Edit: Although to be fair it is common for us doctors to have a superiority complex
post #108 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

"It just works" -- meh. Meant to appeal to the lesser minds.

Wow, and people call Apple elitists...

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John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #109 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

It is also meant to appeal to the tech illiterates. Go to the Apple help website, and read the forums.

"It Just Works" is blatantly untrue.

Troll.
post #110 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

A Dutch court ruled an earlier Apple patent on the slide to unlock gesture was invalid because of prior art.

It was not ruled on it.
The judge stated, the registration could likely be invalidated due to prior art.
post #111 of 120
Good luck, I can't think of any other touch screens using this method before Apple. Amazon successfully obtained a patent for one click purchasing. This is just as good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Taiwan may be scared, because HTC is a smaller fish. Samsung would simply go to court and invalidate the patent.
post #112 of 120
Problem is the Court didn't cite the prior art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

It was not ruled on it.
The judge stated, the registration could likely be invalidated due to prior art.
post #113 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by igorleandro View Post

Meanwhile in a Taiwanese smartphone development department...

Boss: So, what other ideas do we have for unlocking a screen in a smartphone?
Designer: erm... **crickets**
Boss: COME ON!!!! Anything!!!
Designer: **opens Apple website and starts to look at it and sketch stuff on paper** **hands paper to boss**
Boss: Mmm... I like this...

And there we have it...


Seriously though, the fact that they say that a device without "slide to unlock" is not a smartphone is almost a statement of incompetence... Draw a circle, tap numbers in the corners, lick the ffffing thing, but please, stop copying as "the only option"...

+1


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post #114 of 120
Korea and Taiwan are both getting worried that the practise that their economy is based upon blatant copying is under threat and that the money may now begin to flow back to the U.S. rather than to them. They see this, rightly, as a problem for the future. Innovation is not an option. They want a world where people buy an "iPad" or "iPhone" only it is quietly branded by them and they owe nothing on IP or R&D. Apple is the first company who has stood up to this.
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post #115 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

Korea and Taiwan are both getting worried that the practise that their economy is based upon blatant copying is under threat and that the money may now begin to flow back to the U.S. rather than to them. They see this, rightly, as a problem for the future. Innovation is not an option. They want a world where people buy an "iPad" or "iPhone" only it is quietly branded by them and they owe nothing on IP or R&D. Apple is the first company who has stood up to this.

Or they feel a patent surrounding the idea of interacting with a touchscreen to unlock a device that is mostly touchscreen is ridiculous.
post #116 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Apparently if most people saw it first on Apple device, that means Apple owns it. It's not a novel idea of Apple's, but like all things they 'borrow' and bring to masses they will get credit along with exploitation rights.

No, it's actually more like they patented it fair and square, complying with the law. How can you fault any company for complying with the law and then enforcing their patents? Google is trying to do that now, too.
post #117 of 120
I wonder what kind of uproar there would be if the US or UK government decided to argue against Taiwanese companies' patents?
post #118 of 120
As Apple continues to innovate it is laying a continual mine field with each patent granted.... trying to get ahead of Apple innovation has not been a successful tactic by but a handful of situations... so the alternative is to steal ideas.... and pay the price down the road in discounted dollars....

This will go on for just so long and then the courts will ban these imitators completely, forcing innovation and R&D for those that want to survive.... all consumers will then benefit.

Apple just caught everyone flatfooted when the iPhone came out... look where Microsoft or Nokia are today, but have you noticed they had the smart's to step back analyze the situation, set a new timetable that in the end will keep them in the game (if their fingernails don't break in the meantime).

High fliers like Samsung, HTC who jumped on Android which Google provided "free" have high volume production.... much of it in violation of three concepts (look and feel, trade dress and various patented concepts/implementations. They will pay the price as long as they can until they can switch to Windows 8 or a propriety mobil OS.
post #119 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Gosh, I wonder what smartphones did before slide-to-unlock? I can't think of any solution!!!!

My old Treo 650 just turns on with a button and then you click another button to unlock it. The iPhone was the first to use slide to unlock in January of 2007. I'm GLAD Apple is getting rewarded these patents. It's about time. These companies have been producing bad copies for far too long.
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post #120 of 120
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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